Can you actually grow to not like the main character? Mary and Raph's relationship has been a joke from the beginning. It's one thing to have a dysfunctional union but the writers have done a poor job in establishing that a true "union" exists.

Maybe these two actors lack chemistry or maybe there's far too much foreshadowing as it's clear that these two will NEVER get married.

Why does Raph even like her? She's not feisty, she's rude and disgustingly bitter towards him. She's constantly causing drama and I can't name one scene where they've had a real tender moment? Not to mention, can you really see this character, as the way she's been written, having children?

If the writing had any truth to it, her "daddy issues" and dogged belief in right and wrong would mean that she would've never accepted his ring. Their relationship would've been more believable if it had a "push-pull" dynamic to it but all she does is push him away. I'm still trying to figure out why dude wants to be with her. He'd be better off with Brandi.

Finally, it's as if they threw a boyfriend in for good measure because without one, you'd think she was lesbian. Why couldn't they just have handled this like every other female character playing police-type roles?...brief, but undeveloped relationships so that we know she's getting some but it has nothing to do with the plot?

Are all single women lesbians?


I think he acts as a foil to her. He's so giving and selfless whereas Mary is so caught up in her work. I think she does take him for granted and that they won't end up married. I also think that the engagement scene was very tender and sweet. I feel like they finally understood each other.

Are all men who wear pink gay? Ask a stupid question...

The only "tender" moments in this show revolve around the witnesses. The main characters are fillers that attempt to ground the plot.

They could add 2 more agents next season, balance their scenes with mary's and marshalls, and i wouldn't even notice or care if mary got married, her mom got sober, her sister...painted another nail...

While I agree that the relationship with Raph really didn't make much sense (it never felt like Mary even liked him as a friend, let alone someone she wants to spend the rest of her life with), I disagree about the only tender/emotional moments coming from the witnesses.

I don't watch the show for the witnesses, just like I don't watch Monk for the people involved in his crime cases, and I don't watch Burn Notice for Michael's client-of-the-week. I watch for the main characters, primarily the characters who work in the WitSec office (Mary, Marshall, Stan, and Eleanor). I watch them for their interactions and the rapport between Mary and Marshall, not so much what is going on with the witnesses. I didn't mind the family stuff, though I can see why some people might think it is a drag.

And that's what I've always felt the relationship with Raph was. A drag. I never really bought into it. I don't mind if Raph stays on the show in come capacity, but I do hope that the relationship with Mary is no more next season.

and



I think the dysfunction of Mary and Raph's relationship is intentional to set up a point where Mary either decides to swear off men for a while in order to work on her issues and/or develop her relationship more with Marshall. Even if they do "go there" with Mary and Marshall, I don't think it will be for a long while.

Part of that dysfunction is that Mary and Raph's relationship has gone from neutral (or even reverse) to Mach 3 in no time flat. Nobody seems to know what to make of it or how to deal with it. Because of the speed they've taken their relationship, it really can't feel like anything more than a way to drag Mary down and take Marshall with her. She made a rash decision (or 2) and living with it has become more difficult than she imagined. I don't think it was ever envisioned for it to be a real union. If it was, they would have taken things much slower.

I think you are right in that the relationship with Raph doesn't feel like it was meant to last. The engagement and the whole "neutral to Mach 3" feeling you mention is more evidence of that to me. It feels like the engagement is more of a plot device than a character development. We hardly saw Raph all season, then suddenly he and Mary are engaged.

And if there weren't any personnel changes behind the scenes going on right now, I wouldn't worry about it. I would be confident that the engagement would be called off and both characters would be allowed to move in different directions. But with Maples leaving, I have no idea what the network has planned for this relationship. I hope this is one factor they weren't planning on changing, but you never know.

To answer the original question from the thread name:

In a minute.

I asked because in your original post you said that if Mary didn't have Raph people would assume she was a lesbian. There's no need for snark.

In season 1 there were a lot of more emotional moments involving raph and mary than were shown. There were a good number of them on the Deleted scenes on the DVD.
In season 2, i think the episode with the "engagement" party was really sweet at the end because she realized that he had asked her to marry him before because he really meant it, not because he was going to the majors like she thought.

I think part of teh problem especially in the second season was that she cannot accept help from anyone. She's used to being the one that has to fix everything and help everyone so when raph kept trying to help her (fixing the house, helping wiht the bills, etc) she wouldn't accept it because shes not used to people helping her.

I am very curious to see how this relationship will play out next season when she wakes up. I think she really does love Raph, it's just more of whether or not she really wants to get married or not.

If they had the Mary/Marshall thing ever happen, that would hopefully not be for a long time b/c i don't see that being possible anytime before the final season