#213 "Let's Get It Ahn"

A world-class counterfeiter witness – whose girlfriend's infidelity moved her to confess – is suspected in the murder of another "friend". Even the clues seem forged, until Mary and Marshall realize they may be hiding a witness from the government itself.

What did everyone think of this week's episo0de? What do you make of Marshall's reaction to Mary's engagement?

My heart just broke for Marshall at the end, but I can't be the only one who saw the way Raph and Brandi were looking at each other. I don't think the whole Mary getting married thing is really a done deal yet. And now we KNOW she knows how Marshall feels, and what he's been trying to say to her all along. His toast and then all the things they said to each other without using any words, her putting the ring back in her pocket...we haven't heard the end of this story yet. I can't wait to see how it all plays out. Great episode.

Me too. Did you notice how he could barely look at her while making the toast? Damn near made me cry. Mary is still wearing this engagement like a a straitjacket and the fact that everybody now knows about it, especially Marshall, makes her even more uncomfortable. Then add in her new-found knowledge about how her best friend feels and oh boy.

And Brandi and Raph?? This is going to be weird.

Where oh where do we go from here?!?

What's with the Gilbert and Sullivan sing-a-long to "on hold" muzak?!!! What kind of high school did Mary go to?!!

Okay, I have to say this. I am sick of Brandi and sick of storylines that show her(not the actress, this is not against her). Her current boyfriend makes zero sense to me and now they will have her mess with Mary's life more by messing with her fiance(I forget names so quickly, please excuse me) I do not understand at all why we have to get in depth with what Brandi does. Her usefullness as a character seemed over after last year and its so hard for me to believe that anyone involved with Mary would be interested in the airhead trainwreck type.

The scene with Marshall at the end was sweet, genuine and slightly heartbreaking.

Loved this one too! I have to say that on the whole, IPS has made me cry at the end of episodes at least 3 times...and it takes a lot for me to cry, so bravo! The Jinx episode where she finally admits to being an alcoholic was AMAZING and felt true.

Back to Let's Get It Ahn, I was a little confused about the CIA and counterfeit thang but that didn't matter because the tipping point for this episode was to prepare us for next season (am I right?) with regards to the relationships between Mary, Marshall, Raph and Brandi...it's so obvious to we the viewers which couples should be together which makes for some nice old-fashioned sexual tension and makes this chick-flick softie hungry for more...can't wait to see how you play it all out!

I really love how Mary and Eleanor are bonding in the last few episodes and this bit with the "Pirates of Penzance" singalong was perfect.

As for Marshall's reaction to Mary's engagement, I flat out cringed. Oy, writers, what are you thinking?! Do you have any clue the disservice you're doing to law enforcement, fire fighters and military personnel everywhere?! Not everyone who is thrown into life and death situations falls for the person who has their back! Do you have any idea how many husbands and wives worry about their spouse falling for a partner/team member and how many folks have to deal with said spouses having jealous fits on top of the added stress of the jobs they do?! ::facepalms:: Not well done. Not well done at all.

I am also curious where this show is heading with Mary always being so apathetic everytime someone mentions her engagement. Though it does seem she love Raphael. Mary just never seems to be happy about it. I had thought the reactions of romance had left between Mary and Marshall, but this episode shocked me. I was like screaming out loud at 12:56 AM.

After that toast, Mary couldn't stop thinking about Marshall. They just kept looking at each other. The reaction between them has grown so much. It's pretty much obvious that Marshall really likes her. I'm sure he was trying to mean to everyone he loves her as a friend, because they pretty much go through everything emotional with each other. They are the only ones that can relate to each other when they are having trouble with their job.

I just really hope Mary/Marshall works out... but it's going to be very awkward. Very awkward.

I seriously thought it was the worst episode ever. Now, I'm not a Mary/Marshall 'shipper, so I'm not going to like the ep anyway. But seriously, Marshall hasn't shown any interest in Mary beyond friendship for quite some time and in fact, a few episodes ago was flirting with the shrink. Now he's all sad and mopey because she's engaged? Do the writers watch the show they write for?

Mary's refusal to admit to the engagement means she's in the exact same emotional place she was in the pilot. That's some fine emotional growth, there Lou. Brandi, too has backslid. I thought they had her growing up, what with the relationship with Peter and helping that Indian man. Now she's back to flirting with Raph? Add in the second week in a row of homophobic jokes at Marshall's expense (homophobia is just so so so funny), the incredibly lame and juvenile sub-plot with the stuck ring, and a witness I just didn't give a damn about. This episode was written by a homophobic 15 year old boy who had never watched an episode of IPS. The best thing I can say about it is at least I didn't buy a season pass from iTunes. I fear the sharks are in the tank and the motorcycle is revving its engine.

This episode showed a huge step backwards for Mary. In "Jailbait" Mary showed emotional growth in both the morning scene in Raph's kitchen and particularly in the very romantic engagement scene at the end. You got the feeling that she really did love Raph. In "Training Video" her emotional growth continues as she struggles with the secrets she is keeping from Raph. Now in last night's episode, all of a sudden Mary is showing distane for both Raph and the idea of being engaged. Did the writers even read what they had written in the previous shows?
Is anyone else totally sick of the Raph/Brandi connection?

This was an interesting episode. So many things to discuss!

Mary is obviously not comfortable with this engagement. And to be honest, I've never seen Mary as a 'white-wedding dress, walking down the aisle' type of girl that Raph is hoping will appear by the time their wedding date rolls around. If Mary ever does get married (which I'm seriously doubting will happen--to either Raph or Marshall or anyone else) it would be much more her style for a quick trip to the Justice of the Peace with Jinx and Brandi as witnesses. Or Vegas.

For me, Marshall's reaction to the engagement was unexpected. I've always sensed a tension between him and Mary (especially during that scene in 'Who's Bugging Mary') and while I wouldn't mind if they ended up together, I still felt that was a long way off. Now, all of a sudden, he's confessing his love? It makes me wonder if the show is in danger of not being renewed for next season and the writers are trying to tie up loose ends.

The witness plot was okay. I'm glad they brought Dershowitz back. He's a good foil for M&M. I also enjoyed the Pirates of Penzance reference. Mary's whole, "While everyone else was getting stoned in high school, I did musicals" cracked me up.

Can't wait for next week!

I found it rather funny after the scene in the diner that Marshall's got her engagement ring stuck on his finger for the rest of the day and she's flirting with Bobby D just about every chance she gets. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. I think she realizes she's made a huge mistake, but after her speech about honoring commitment, she feels stuck.

Whether she ever felt "that way" about Marshall is unclear, but now as she's on the cusp of making the biggest mistake of her life, she might be realizing that Raph wasn't the best she would ever get after all. I think she and Marshall are soulmates and they both know it. Whether or not they could ever be lovers is a whole different matter. Her ideal mate is currently split into two bodies. Right now, she's got a lover, but there's no deep connection between them. With Marshall, she has a deep connection, but passion? physical attraction? Who knows.

I think her growth is going to be a two steps forward-three steps back kind of deal. She is not a creature who deals well with change and this whole engagement thing and the new half-sister thing, etc has completely turned her world upside down. I think Marshall hit on the head when he told her that she's become the train wreck he can't stop watching. The question in my mind is who's going to be hurt the worst when this train finally derails? Nobody is going to come away unscathed.

I agree completely. Plus we now know that Mary & Marshall can date. Thanks Elenor!

I don't think the writers are just tying up loose ends (especially since this season is supposed to end on something of a cliffhanger with a few storylines up in the air), I think they were just bringing Marshall's feelings for Mary to the forefront to give Mary some food for thought about her engagement. She's been really ambivalent about it, like her heart really isn't in it, but she's been determined to go forward because she's had no real reason (that she could think of) not to. Now she might. I don't think that she'd immediately drop Raph and run to Marshall, but his toast certainly gave her something to think about for a while. I don't think this will be completely resolved any time soon - they'll both go back to acting like everything is normal, while in the background (or in the back of her mind) Mary will try to sort out exactly how she feels about Marshall. That will probably take a while, especially since he's her best friend, and trying for something more with him will involve a lot of risks for Mary (like losing her only friend if it doesn't work out), and they may be risks that she's too afraid or unwiling to take.




There have been signs all throughout the series how Marshall feels about Mary. Last season in the episode where he got shot it was pretty clear that he's got some strong feelings for her. But it's never been clear if he believed that something will ever come of it, and I think things like dating the shrink are his efforts to move on. Mary, after all, has been dating someone else for the life of the series, and Marshall's smart enough and self-aware enough to know that it isn't good for him to just sit on the sidelines and wish for something to happen (though you never really lose that hope in your heart - even if you know it is ridiculous). The news of the engagement hit him hard because it did really stomp on that hope.



Yep. Mary clearly isn't comfortable with this engagment - even though everyone in the office knows about it, she still put the ring in her pocket instead of wearing it. I really think she needs to call it off. It isn't fair to Raph.

But speaking to Raph, he showed that telling him about her WitSec job was a BIG mistake. He clearly doesn't understand how important the confidentiality is. I'm really afraid he's going to slip up and spill the beans to the wrong person.

A small detail that I loved - one of the balloons at the engagement party said "Get Well Soon" - like Eleanor and Stan just ran to the store about got whatever they had in stock.

I'm new here. Hope you don't mind if I join in! I noticed three things about last night's show.

1. I was really disappointed in Raph's comment about "who are you going to hide today?" I'd thought he would have been smarter than that. When Mary said she told him so he would understand why she didn't talk about it and he said "that may make sense to you" or something to that effect. For someone as secretive as he is, you'd think he'd get that.

2. If the marshal's have fake last names to use with witnesses to protect themselves and witnesses come through the office, why do they have nameplates on their desks with their real names? Twice we got a closeup of a nameplate on Marshall's desk that said Marshall Mann. In such a small office not open to the public, why have nameplates anyway?

3. Witnesses aren't supposed to have any trace of their old life. Last night's witness was an artist. So why was she allowed to work at a painting place and have her apartment full of paintings she'd done? I'm guessing she did them, they looked to be the same style as the one of her girlfriend she kissed at the beginning. Maybe that was Mary's first time in the apartment and she obviously didn't have time to worry about it then. But it still stuck out to me.

I noticed the get well balloon, too. That was funny!

I just don't understand how this woman can have two men in love with her. She is such a miserable person...

I can understand Marshall's feelings because they do have a connection and they get along well. I don't understand why Raph is in love with her because she is almost never nice to him. I know that he sees all the good in her, but with the way she treats him I really don't know why he didn't walk away a long time ago.

I enjoyed last nights' episode, though it wasn't one of my favorites. I felt sad for Marshall when he gave that toast, and I found it strange that Mary put the ring back in her pocket. It's almost as if she's ashamed of being engaged or is starting to doubt her feelings. I thought the engagement thing happened too quickly, anyway.

Also noticed Brandi making "eyes" at Raph. Is there still some interest/attraction there mutually?

I really like this show, and can't wait to see if in fact, there will be a wedding.

It was so sad about what happened to Marshall! I felt so bad for him since I knew he liked Mary a lot. He's been having feelings for her all this time (in this season and the last), and it really sucks that he found out about the engagement. It was so sad that he could hardly look at her, I wanted to start crying. And it was pretty obvious that Mary now knows how Marshall feels about her since she was looking at him like that. He couldn't even look all that happy for her. He looked very sad & dissappointed... It's not right. I feel so sorry for him.

As for Brandi and Raph, I don't think it's such a good idea for them to be living under the same roof. I think if they do, something's gonna happen. I really don't want to see Mary & Raph's relationship getting messed up because of her sister. Yeah I don't think Mary & Raph will go through with this engagement (their relationship probably won't last much longer either), but I don't want them to break up on the account of Brandi. Because of how they looked at each other, that makes me think that something's going to happen between them.

I don't think Mary & Raph are gonna last. When is Raph gonna wake up & see? Even if Mary is in love with him, she's got a funny way of showing it. I think Mary is so mean to him, I wonder if the guy sees it. And if he does why is he even sticking around? If I was him I'd try to get over her & move on. I honestly don't think they'll get married. I can't even see her at least thinking about marriage even a little bit.
I'm 50/50 on Mary & Raph. Part of me wants them to work things out, but another part of me just wants Raph to get with Brandi since they get along so much. Not to mention Brandi is much nicer to him & treats him better.

First off welcome. Has anyone told you that you'd make a good WITSEC employee? I never noticed that name plate thing or the balloon. Go you with the observation!

Good point about the art. I was wondering about it too.

Is it just me or are the writers slowly nailing the Mary & Ralph relationship casket closed? Yeah, total M&M shipper.

that is they key to the whole show for me and I think a lot of others. Mary is NOT a miserable person. She is a REAL person. What you see is what you get. She is just what she appears to be and that is an attraction not a detraction.

The world is filled with phony women (and men) and that makes social interaction a nightmare. It also leads to failed marriages as you think you are getting one person who turns out to be someone completely different. Now they are changing her into the same kind of phony that so many other women are. It won't work. Her charm and attraction is just what she said to the shrink when they were having lunch during Humbolt.

"You're afraid of confrontation so you stand by and let the external rectal openings of the world behave badly. I think people should be held accountable for their actions"

I often save great quotes from great TV shows and that one, is near the top of my list.

The only thing raph and mary do together, is have sex. They don't share dates, time together to just talk. Its all physical. Been that way from the start. Marshall and Mary "live together" share all kinds of insights into each other's lives, and know each other better than anyone else can ever know them. As Marshall said, "I hope you know I love you" because he does, but he knows the dangers of falling for your partner, which could cost one or both of them their lives.

Just watch his face as he talks to the guy in "A Frond In Need" when he say he knows how hard it is to keep from chasing after something you really want. Its obvious that is Mary.

The writers could have run this storyline for several more seasons, but instead seem to be trying to wrap things up and make an ending, as if they know the show is nearing its end.

FWIW the same thing happened to the Sarah Connor Chronicles, in that there was plenty of storyline left be told, but when it was clear the show was over, they stuffed everything into three great final episodes, and tried to tie things up, but in the end left more doors unopened and questions unanswered.

There are few here, I think, that expect or want to see M and M get married or engaged, but then again there is plenty of time for more of the same, heading towards that kind of conclusion.

As for the writers not understanding life? I don't care about real life when I watch TV. I want to be entertained, and I want to spend my 43 minutes forgetting about life's problems. Until now, IPS has done that, but its not looking good.

However I will join the majority and admit to the tears that rolled down my cheeks as Marshall gave his toast. Maybe its because of the old BTDT and never got over it, but either way, it was very well done.

John

I really don't get the sense that the show is wrapping anything up, other than maybe this engagement storyline. Plus they've got this huge thread still dangling out there - Mary's father - and I'd think that if they were trying to wrap things up, they would address that situation (plus the show's Executive Producer has said that the season ends on something of a cliffhanger, so he at least is clearly planning on coming back for more - hopefully USA feels the same, and I'm guessing they do since while IPS doesn't get ratings as high as Burn Notice, it still gets good ratings and is almost always the #1 cable series on Sunday nights. That's nothing to sneeze at).

I think Marshall making his feelings clear(er) is really more about throwing some fuel on the fire to get Mary to rethink this engagement.

That is my point about Mary being miserable! I mean, I know she has been through a lot but I just don't see her being a likable character. She is never nice to Raph. And while the insults to Marshall might be part of their "thing", they are very often mean spirited.

So you are telling me that if a "real" woman like Mary treated you the way she treats the people in her life, you would be attracted to her??? I like to consider myself a real woman, but I don't treat my husband or my co-workers the way that she does. And they are "real" relationships that have been fostered over years of time spent together. Yes, we have our ugly moments...but Mary has them way too frequently for me to consider her REAL.

There is no way to answer that and not be misunderstood to be getting personal, when I don't even know you :-)

That said, Mary's honesty and straight shooting are what the world needs more of, not less. Her relationships like with stan and Marshall are five years old (at least) obviously her family ones are lifetime, and we don't know how long she has known Raph.

No need to go into anyone's real life, but mine would have turned out better if the woman I chose was a straight shooter who put it all out there to be seen and judged, so yes, I would be attracted to a woman with Mary's attitude in a minute. I should be so lucky as to find someone like that character but then, this isn't a dating forum, is it? :-)

John

Last night about made me puke a few times. It seems so many shows have to throw in sexual tension (will they won’t they, do they don’t they); is it a crutch because they can’t follow a story line start to finish? I’m NOT a fan of the writing of this show, AT ALL. The writers seem to be winging it every episode. The show could be picked apart for details that are amiss often, but this episodes writing wasn’t even coherent. They never clearly defined who was after who (it was pretty much everyone, but no one specifically) and who worked for who? Since details are difficult and require research, they jump on and off again into sexual tension. Sexual tension everywhere: Jinx & Raph, Mary & Marshall, Bartender & Mary, gay jokes aimed at Marshall. Are we in grade school or junior high? Seriously, the writers can’t think of a real plot so they throw this in? This is soap opera stuff. Start with a moving story line, move to sexual tension, move back (briefly) to intriguing story line and jump back to sexual tension and/or make-outs.

I also thought that Raph’s comments regarding who she’s going to hide and his lack of understanding as to why she told him was out of character and stupid. Once again, writing screw-up.

The only thing I did like about last nights’ episode is Bobby D was back and useful, not just the butt of their pranks (he did get the guy in the hall way who could have blown all their heads off) and I really liked the interchanges between Mary and Eleanor. Oh, and I liked the blues music too.

It says so much to me that no one either 1) really understood who was out to get who and 2) everyone remembers all the shippiness.



He's way too nice to put up with her.

I usually don't catch stuff like that, but they zoomed in close on Marshall's nameplate twice last night, not long after parading the witness through the office.

I'm not a fan of Mary and Marshall getting together. I have flashbacks to Scarecrow and Mrs. King when they got married! But I'm not a fan of Mary and Raph getting engaged so quickly, also. Raph has gotten unreasonable all of a sudden. They're engaged, but that doesn't give him a right to move in and start repairing the walls without talking to her first. I understand he's anxious to get on with things, but they need to talk about it. Of course they haven't talked about much else. I'd like to see a couple of more episodes of them opening up. Could you see Mary and Raph in counseling?

I thought that was out of character for Raph.

Well, if you go back to "Good Cop, Dead Cop", she bought her house about 16 months before that episode's "present day". At the time, she muses on the state of her life to Marshall and one of the things she mentions is no boyfriend. So as of right now, they been dating less than two years, mostly on-and-off. (It's kinda hard to tell because the timeline of the episodes is not keep time with our calendar. After all, the last two episodes of last season and the first few of this one take place in about a three week period.) It wasn't until a few episodes into this season that they actually acted like a real couple. Before that, they were mostly "friends with privileges."

I liked the WotW backstory....the "who's zoomin' who" theme nicely paralled the 'shipper stories and the WofW story.

Raph's comments about who Mary was going to hide today....lame as that was, I saw it as a feeble attempt to get more inside Mary's private life, but he just didn't pull it off. He wants to get their relationship into the next gear, but I think he's frustrat ed and trying too hard. Besides, Raph and Brandi are already bickering like a married couple so I can't get too worked up about his problems with Mary at this point.

The ring.....metaphor for just about everything going on. Marshall noticing the tan line...Mary didn't put it on but Marshall did...then smiles up at Mary...then it gets "stuck on Marshall"..."I'm Ringo"....he wears it all day, enduring snipes...Mary didn't seem bothered he wore it so long.....and then she pockets it when he hands it back. Man, you don't have to be Fellini to figure out what's goin' on here.

The toast...*sigh* Up to that moment I wasn't an M/M shipper, I swear.

Lots of hilarious banter this ep:

Mary: [Your girlfriend] is a multiple felon...aggravated assault, manslaughter, armed robbery...she's clinically diagnosed with an anti-social personality disorder and you caught her screwing your business partner. She is a cheating, lying, anti-social sociopath...is this really the kind of person you want to hang your future on?"
Witness: "I could do worse."

Seems to me the key is that Mary doesn't know how to be happy -- does she really know what happiness is? (Back in Season One she said to Brandi, "I'm happy...enough", with a lame smile.) She's always had to be the strong one in the family and make sacrifices, solve everyone's problems -- and then they blithely go on to screw up yet again, knowing she'll clean up after them, yet again. But knowing that more screw-ups and clean-ups were inevitable, that this was her lot in life, was stability for her and brought a form of happiness because she could solve the problem and make things better. Now she's really conflicted about being happy (conventionally happy), about giving in to it, because it means she no longer knows what's going to happen next. She's no longer in total control. (A fear of the unknown?) That's really hard for her. She has a steep learning curve to happiness.

Perhaps she didn't want to tell her officemates about the engagement until she was more comfortable with the idea of it herself. After all, her image is that of a curmudgeon, with a whole bunch of problems that everyone is fascinated with and sucked into (the train wreck they can't stop watching). What is Mary's self image -- what is her role in life -- if Jinx sobers up, Brandi straightens out her life, and she's actually loved by a man for who and what she is ("the most difficult woman in the world") -- and who wants her to be happy? What is her self image if she becomes happy? Any change throws her life out of whack, and the engagement is a Major Life Change, way outside her present comfort zone, and she's not going to come to terms with it and change overnight (witness the scene in the diner with Raph in which he's laying down some rules).

And what exactly is Mary's idea of marriage? Her experience is only the disaster of Jinx and James, abandonment as a child, marrying at 16 to get away from dealing with Jinx and Brandi, etc. I'm thinking she's not sure she can do this -- be good at marriage and building a family -- and she doesn't like to fail. She'd be embarrassed to fail. But at the same time, she's willing to take the risk at this time in her life.

As for the looks exchanged between Mary and Marshall at the office party, I saw conflicted feelings about how this affects their friendship rather than some sudden discovery that Marshall is her true love. I think their relationship was really defined in two earlier episodes - Trojan Horst and Rubble. The scene between them in Horst, when he tells her he thought of bailing from the marshal service because it's a lot of responsibility being Mary's (the exotic animal's) keeper, had him kind of buckling under the pressure of how much he could take; then in Rubble, her discussion about partnership -- clearly about Marshall-- was followed by her monologue about what she yearns for in a lasting relationship -- clearly not Marshall. She wasn't mixing the two. I think the idea of "permanently" bringing another man into her life is hard for Mary because she knows it will hurt Marshall and may negatively affect their friendship, which she doesn't want to lose.

Enjoyed the episode tremendously; thought the G&S music was appropriate for the convoluted plot. But --! Please, writers, not the Long, Slow Tease! Every show on TV has done it to death. It was cute, back in the days of 'Moonlighting' and 'Remington Steele,' but come on! Either do it and get on, or let them find out it can't work -- and move on. While you're at it, kill off Brandi and Jinx, or hook them up with Nate Westin and ship them to Timbuktu. Then, give Mary a good, swift kick and tell her to get over herself! I love her, I do, but she seems determined to make herself and everyone around her miserable. LIGHTEN UP, MARY!

Loved the episode, but then I am a Mary/Marshall shipper who really didn't expect them to hint quite as strongly as they did in this episode and was pleasantly suprised by it.



I have worried before that they might have Brandi and Raph develop a 'thing' for each other. IMO it would be the biggest mistake the show could make. First off it would make her sister looking even more a backstabbing skank than she has appeared in the past. I am just now starting to actually like the character and tptb have gone to great lengths in trying to repair her appeal to some degree. If she goes after her sister's fiance, and frankly I don't even care if Mary is with Raph at the time, I would still be against it. Not only would it just become too soap opera-ish, it just would make Brandi look incredibly bad. To hook up with a man your sister was so intimately involved with just has too much of an ick factor for me.

As for the wedding, I know there is suppoe to be a cliff hanger this season that flips Mary's world on its head. I really thought it would have something to do with her father, but I am starting to wonder if something doesn't happen to Raph as a result of her job. They just really keep emphasizing how she is trying to keep him seperate from her work and he appears to just not quite 'get it'. I don't know. Just makes me think he could get hurt or killed or something thus leading to no wedding.



As a Mary/Marshall shipper, I really didn't find his reaction that out there. Granted I was suprised they were so really obvious about it in the episde, but IMO they have hinted to his feeling in just about every single episode. The surprise for me in this episode wasn't so much Marshall being more obvious about it though as it was seeing Mary actually having her eyes opened to his feelings. I really figured she would remain oblivious for quite a while longer. As for the thing with the shrink, I sort of wish they would revisit it. Would be interesting to see a scene where the shrink returns and tells Mary it had nothing to do with her ex being an issue so much as Marshall being the one to call the hault, despite what he told Mary.

I saw that too and it made me laugh. I also noticed that while Mary was discussing the case with Marshall at his desk that there were still spitballs stuck to the back of his computer and his desk phone, even though she'd shot them at him in a previous scene that was supposed to have taken place 16 months ago...

Also, I love the song that they were singing while on hold. I don't know if anyone else is familiar with the musical (The Pirates of Penzance), but they song that they were all singing describes Marshall perfectly. Great choice on the part of the production team! Check out the lyrics if you've never heard the song before:

http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/web_op/pirates13.html

Didn't notice the spitballs!!!

And, thanks for including the Major-General lyrics.....which DO decribe Marshall perfectly!! So cool.

Sorry...didn't mean to make it personal! I just meant that I couldn't see a man being attracted to someone who was always so rude to him. I understand about fake women...I am sometimes ashamed of most of my fellow "girls". But I also don't believe that Mary is a fair interpretation of "real" either. I just think there is "real" and there is "rude". Women can be strong and good at their jobs and still manage to be caring and supportive of their sig other without constantly entertaining herself at his expense. It doesn't have to be either "fake and annoying" or "real and bitchy"...there are things in between. Women can be portrayed as complicated without being stereotyped into one of those two small categories. But I guess those women wouldn't make for good TV, would they?

I remember this quote, but I liked it for a completely different reason than you did...I liked the shrink's follow up question about Mary holding everyone accountable for their actions except her family. Someone actually had the nerve to challenge Mary and she didn't have an answer for once.

That is exactly what I was thinking. I think that right now, her and Raf are kind of in limbo, because they're still engaged. Once they're married, she's not getting out of this marriage. And that is why, if they marry her with Raf and that's that, I think it will be a bad move. Part of the reason I watch this show is to see Mary's personal life and love life play out, and things will just become boring if Raf stays there, because she would never be one to cheat on or divorce him, so she'd be stuck.

Or maybe having someone stand up in front of God and everybody and promise to stick with her through thick and thin is exactly what she needs and it'll turn her life around.

In this episode, anyone notice the moment Mary had after the bad guys were cuffed and hauled away? Hands on knees, bent over, her face showed relief, fear, panic, confusion. Is PTSD resurfacing?

As for spitballs, who's to say she doesn't regularly shoot them?

WOW!
I thought that epi was ok compared to what we have seen thus far. I did not watch the series until the second season so I don't quite understand somethings. First off, Raph baked the ring in a cupcake and Mary threw it in his face? I think that pretty much shows that Mary didn't want to marry him. Second, I heard on another website that Mary and Marshall kissed early in the first season? WOW can't believe I missed that but it would explain the 'I love you' comment during Marshall's toast.

I don't think Mary was so much as just realizing that Marshall meant that he loved loved her but that she was shocked he had said it at all. Either way I liked the epi but I didn't think it was great.
-<3 Bri

Am I confused, or did Brandi and Ralph already have a prior relationship? I would swear they were involved before he and Mary got together.

Third episode in (Never the Bride), Raph gets called up to the majors and he decides its the right time to pop the question so he gets a cupcake and puts the ring in it. She freaks out and throws the ring at him and leaves. She thinks he's made a rash decision because of the call-up to the majors. Up to then, she's basically told him that sex is the extent of their relationship, but he doesn't buy it.

Same episode, Mary and Marshall go to rescue the witness and follow her to a stable where she's being held by diamond smugglers. As a cover, she messes up Marshalls hair, pulls his shirt out and smears lipstick on his face. He "gets into it" and starts kissing her back. She pulls back like "what are you doing" and he says he was just following her lead. Later in the scene, she gives him a hard time about "wanting to break off a piece" and "throwing down" with his best friend. His defense is "I'm a guy. It's what we do." But you can see in his face that he thought it was something more.

Which leads to the next episode where he thinks of leaving the Marshal Service in "Trojan Horst".

If you want to get a sense of Marshall's feelings, those are two good episodes to start with. "High Priced Spread" is another good one. Marshall starts a relationship with someone he knows from college and you kind of see a twinge of jealously from Mary, as only she can do it.

Do yourself a favor and rent the first season. I've watched it again and I catch things now with the knowledge I have of this season's events. It's enlightening.

Oh, I don't know. Ask the guy I dated for 7+ years how he put up with this kind of crap for so long. When things were going well with us, it was great. When I started to feel smothered or trapped (which was often), I could be a royal b****. Not something I'm proud of, but I see so much of Mary in myself that it's kinda scary. Different reasons, but same self-destructive behavior.

I've been thinking about this post for a few days and have come to the conclusion that Mary's got two conflicted states of mind going on inside her head. One is that she really wants to try to make this work with Raph. It's the part of her that lead her to accept the proposal, tell him about her job, etc. The other part, whether she knows it or not, is trying to drive him away. She's got a script running in her head that says "the men who love me, leave me" and for her world to work, that script has to play out. She can't break off the engagement because that would run counter to her belief that commitments should be honored, but making him break it off takes the responsibility off of her and confirms her script.. The problem is, Raph loves her too much to follow her script and by denying any feelings she has for Marshall, the script isn't in effect -- he won't leave me because he doesn't love me. (Who said psychology made sense?)

With her sister and mother finally on a track to get their lives in order, she has nothing to focus on but her own life and she can't deal with it. Especially since she feels like she's not the one in control. The internal struggle is leading her to be sullen and stand-offish with everyone, including Marshall. I think she feels more for Marshall than she's willing to admit to herself and that's why she's been behaving with him the last few weeks like she does with Raph. His toast brought those feelings front and center. You can see it in her face.

Like with my situation, some external force is going to have to push her one way or the other. My guess is that's what the season finale will be about, and it ain't gonna be pretty.

Interesting observations about Mary. I do think her feelings on Raph are complicated, and I do think that she is sticking with this engagement because she believes in honoring commitments despite her misgivings about it. I do think she cares about Raph, but I'm not sure she loves him enough to marry him. Some of that has to do with her fears of abandonment because of her father, but I also think a lot of it is because it simply isn't in her heart, even though she thinks it should be.

I'm not exactly sure what Mary's feelings for Marshall are, but she at least seems to be aware on some level that their relationship is actually a little more complicated than friends/partners. She knew that he would not react well to her engagement. But is that because on some level she knew that he had feelings for her, or because (as you suggested) her own feelings for him are more complicated than she's willing to admit, even to herself?

1. I would like to hear a renewal. This show deserves it, and everyone I show it to ends up following it themselves.

2. I thought this was a fantastic episode, one of the best - the Pirates of Penzance sing-along was inspired, hilarious and it moved the plot forward. The guest stars on this show are always top notch actors, too. And yes, Marshall's response to Mary's engagement was brilliant - paradoxically clear as a bell and specific in his feelings and yet hiding the tidal wave. The ring was probably the best way to torture him without turning IPS into some sort of mopey soap.

We need a Marshall's life episode, soon, though. I'm just saying. He really is one bad-ass lawman, but with that mind of his you know there were other things he wanted for himself, and Weller has added bits and comments about who he is and who his family expects him to be into his performance. Now I want to see more.

As for Raphael's performance, the longer he's with Mary, the less I get it, although the more I get why Mary's with him for now. Mary wants to be a better, healthier person - she really is trying to create a stable life where she's happy, and that's been the arc for her since she first went to that gambler's anonymous meeting, with a bit of a giant backslide thanks to her kidnapping and PTSD. I think she sees Raph, who underneath all the hanky-panky is kind of an old-fashioned guy, as a good person to try to create the stability she craves and she's not recognizing right away that he's a good person to create that with, just not with her.

I also think anything between him and Brandy would just end in disaster - they are great together in terms of comedy and as a sort of weird foil to Marshall and Mary, but Marshall and Mary are ultimately good influences on each other, while Brandi and Raphael bring out some good things in each other - like Brandy's and Raph's caretaker tendencies - but also things that are weak and ugly, like Brandy's constant need for male approval and attention and Raphael's temptation to take out his frustrations with Mary through possible infidelity.
OK, maybe that's a weak argument. But I still don't think it could end well, and they would destroy not just each other but Mary's entire family (and Raphael's.)

Loved the episode - the writing and performances this season have been dead on all the way through, and even my fiancee gets excited about it now!

Definitely. It allowed his despair to be a subtle undercurrent instead of dominating the story. It was brilliant!



I'd love to see where he lives. With his varied interests, it must be an interesting place. Everything we know about Marshall has been gleaned from little snippets from conversations. Heck, we've only sort of seen what he drives twice (I think the SUVs are "company" vehicles). Maybe part of this whole thing with Mary is setting up for us to learn more about him.

I have a few theories about Marshall that I need to flesh out before making a new topic. I see some research (i.e. a marathon) in my future.

Perhaps, but early on in the show, Mary made it clear more than once to Raph that "this is what we do (sex) and there is nothing more to it, so how to quantify boyfriend and not boy-toy is a tough one. They could have been together for years before she bought her house. She would never admit she had a boyfriend. She even told Marshall that he was her only friend in Lola.

Tough to call the pre-show timeline.

John

I like the way the censor software messed with the quote :-) They can say it, and much worse on the actual show, but here in the forum, its verbotten. Sorry if I might have offended anyone.

Mary didn't ever answer any of the shrink's questions, as her phone would ring, or someone would break up the conversation, so we will have to live with assumptions about how she would react.

Your points about her are understood, but maybe its just me who recognizes the way she treats Marshall as anything but rude. For every comment she has made to him that was really over the top, she has offered an apology, and if not a straight "I'm sorry" she has acknowledged she was out of line.

The key to the whole show is who Mary is. It will only last, as long as Mary stays the way that she is because that is what brings the viewers back, to hate her, or to love her. If they marry her off, the show is over, no matter who it is with. Nothing lasts forever, especially good TV <shrug>

I don't want her to marry anyone, as that kills off her relationship with Marshall. As someone else mentioned, the death of several decent shows are attributable to marrying up the partners, so IPS will thrive, as long as the plots remain intelligent, and they leave Mary the way she is. If they turn her into Laura Petrie, game over. :-)

John

True, but the way she said it made it seem like she hadn't gotten any in quite a while. Just speculation.