LMAO, which audience is he referring to?!?

::: shakes head in disbelief :::

They actually could be going back to one detective team on "CI," and if that is the case, I suspect Jeff Goldblum and Saffron Burrows are big enough name actors that they can continue on "CI" without VDO and Kathryn. I equate this to the last season of The X-Files in 2001-'02, when it was basically Robert Patrick and Annabeth Gish replacing David Duchony and Gillian Anderson. I wound up watching a lot of the old "X-Files" episodes when TNT aired them during the overnight hours and actually found that ninth and last season of the show to actually be the best of the entire series, and had "The X-Files" continued to a 10th season in 2002-'03 without Mulder and Scully, I think it would have actually done well and continued for another couple of seasons beyond that at least.

What is forgotten is there are a lot of people who can't stand VDO in particular and only watch the non-VDO episodes of "CI," so whether it's Jeff Goldblum and Saffron Burrows for all 16 episodes or a new detective team for half of them, that may actually help keep "CI" going beyond next season.

As for Eric Bogosian's departure: I'm not really surprised, as while he did well in the role, it was not the kind of role we have been accustomed to seeing him do as a rule over 20+ years before that. One possibility I could see for a replacement there is Richard Belzer moving his "SVU" character of John Munch to "CI," with Munch coming in as a Lieutenant (remember, Munch's character was promoted two seasons ago on "SVU" to Sargent when he took that exam on a bar bet, and in the season nine "SVU" opener actually ran the unit). Belzer has been vastly underrused of late on "SVU," so a transfer to "CI" I could see wind up happening.

If you do continue with two Detective teams once VDO and Kathryn leave "CI," I could see Ice-T also moving his character of Odafin Tutuola from "SVU" to "CI," with Fin also being promoted to Senior Detective in the process. I suspect they were leaning on going that route last year with Ice-T before bringing in Goldblum to replace Chris Noth given how "Cold," the season nine finale of "SVU" was written, and if so, it is something that could be re-visited.

But the thing is, the X-Files did not continue without Mulder and Scully. You might think it was the best, but the overall impression (from the ratings) was a big "no" and the show was gone. And it's not Dogget and Rayes that come back in the movies, it's Mulder and Scully.

Those that "can't stand" VDO are not the majority, either. So unless the "lighter" fare attracts those Monk viewers...well...

And I agree with Tigger...you can't just change the whole show and still call it LOCI. It was not created to be a fluffy show. It was gritty and real and dark. And I know I'm repeating myself but I'm sorely irritated with TPTB. They don't care about the fans. They care about their bottom line. That's what happens when you let executives who know next to nothing about the entertainment business run a TV network.

Vincent was right. In America, TV is now all about money. And it sucks.

I just found out. I'm so sad. And Mad. I'm so mad I don't know where to start. USA doesn't want to pay VDO and KE. Dick Wolf says the fans won't care. USA could save a lot of money and just air a test pattern screen. That wouldn't cost a thing. Very low overhead, ad no actors, agents or fan clubs to deal with. I think after VDO and KE leave, I'll go too. I think I'm just going to have to give up TV altogether. I get too attached to some of these characters. It kills me when the TV exectives drop them so easily. If they wanted a show that was lighter, why did they write all that heavy stuff last season. Goren and Eames can be lighter. They could have given Goren a girlfriend to be dumbfounded at Goren's antics so we could enjoy them all over again. But no, they chose to kill off what was left of his family, kill off his nemesis, and take away his badge for six months. Seems to me, the fact that Goren hung in there was amazing.

To Vincent, and Kathryn I discovered both of you on this show. You've given me more enjoyment than you'll ever know. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

To the other fans like me who can't figure out where to go from here, perhaps we should concentrate on creating our own website where we can post our own LOCI fiction. If we're lucky maybe Goren and Eames can live on between the pages of a very long series of books. Just think! NO Powers that Be (stupid). No T. V. executives! (Truly Vacant) Just us, and the characters we've come to know and love. Goodnight cruel world.

You read my mind. USA could save a bundle running test patterns, but they must be fluffy quirky test patterns. I agree, it is moronic to want suddenly a "quirkier" show after all they did to Bobby last year. Oh, well, they'll be hemhorraging fans now, and I really thought they were top of their game. God Damn the USA network.

As for giving up TV altogether, all I have for intertainment is the internet (I come here many times a day, but if no one comes I guess I'll be giving that little ritual up) and television. My father can be an idiot sometimes, and his way of calming me down is to say, "It's just a TV show." I think that's the problem with the execs and Dick Wolf, they really can't concieve of this medium making a difference in people's lives or us getting engrossed in a character, rather than a story.

Thank God for fan fiction! And DVD's!

When it rains it pours, I just found this on another website:


"In honor of the show's 20th anniversary, Mayor Michael Bloomberg has officially made September 23 Law and Order Day."

Excuse me while I go puke.

I used to have a normal life, but I got sick, and all of a sudden my life shrunk to the size of a postage stamp. So, yes, it's just a tv show, but it's my tv show. It's our tv show. It meets different needs in all of us. If there were a way to save these characters, I'd be more than willing to help the writers piece together a lighter, fluffier Goren and Eames landscape. It sure is going to be a darker, sadder world without my friends at major case.

Oh for pete's sake! I'll join you.

-sigh- Nothing like a heaping handful of salt to go with that wound there. With all the crap that's happened over the past few months, I'm ready to build myself a great big bunker and stay in there >__< (anyone care to join?)

Yay Mayor Mike. Don't you have better things to do, like fix the MTA?

I declare September 24th "Vincent D'Onofrio, Kathryn Erbe, and Eric Bogosian Appreciation Day". See? I could be mayor!

I was on another site and read hundreds of entires from very irate fans stating they are never watching the show again. I am with them. I can't say I am surprised. I think USA has given us "hints" all along. All season I've stated that it sems the JG episodes were gettimg MUCH more publicty than the G/E episodes. But the FIRST clue was the promotion picture which showed JG in front and JG in back! Then it seemed when LOCI was to be respresented (oi.e. Monk commercial) it was JG, not VDO. So USA has given us subtle hints all along. But if they go to some of these other sites, they will see the OUTRAGE from the fans. To me, VDO IS LOCI! Without him, it is just another detective show.

Excerpt from an article I read today:
.......Yet, like Sam Waterston on the original "L&O," D'Onofrio has long been identified with "Criminal Intent" and has helped set its tone as Det. Robert Goren. His trademark gesture, the in-your-face tilt of his head when he interrogates criminals, is a highlight of each episode, as is his encyclopedic knowledge of the arcane that often helps in fingering the suspect.

Footstepsontherun, I'd vote for you!

Ditto ditto ditto!!!



OK, I really don't mean to offend anyone, but according to me Saffron Burrows is *not* a big enough name. Jeff Goldblum is a big name, but Burrows, sorry for her, isn't yet. We'll see in 20 years of work, if she'll have accomplished as much as VDO et al. have. But right now, in my book she doesn't qualify as "big name".






LMAO! I'd vote for you, foosteps!

Except Waterston didn't originate the role of the Executive Assistant DA on the original series. That was originally done by Michael Moriarity, who played EADA Ben Stone from 1990-'94, plus the original pilot episode "Everybody's Favorite Bagman" that was filmed in 1988 for CBS. Waterston isn't even the longest tenured member of the cast of the original series, that actually belongs to S. Epatha Merkenson, who has played Lt. Anita Van Buren since the start of season four in September 1993 (when she and Jill Hennessy replaced Dann Florek and Richard Brooks, who were both forced out by then-NBC Entertainment Head Warren Littlefield, who had threatened to cancel the original series unless women were added to the cast).

Yes, VDO has been synomus with "CI," especially since he and Kathryn Erbe have been with "CI" from the beginning, however, I do know a lot of people who only watch the non-VDO episodes, and that group seems to not be nearly as vocal as the VDO supporters. As said, Jeff Goldblum and Saffron Burrows are big enough name actors to continue "CI" past the upcoming ninth season, and myself and others actually found those episodes to be better than the Goren-Eames ones, especially since a lot of people have grown tired of Goren's angst all the time.

One thing that was mentioned is VDO may be back for guest appearences as well. In that regard, it sounds like it is possible that it was more of a mutual thing with VDO, who may have grown tired of the grind of the "CI" as well.

Ya know, I've always watched the entire show, never thought of dumping half of it to only watch G/E or L/random-partner, not both. I could also watch season 8 and I watched it *all* and I support *the entire* cast

However, I still don't think Saffron Burrows qualifies as a "big name". Not yet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she's not a good actress or can't be in the CI cast. I'm just thinking that she'll have to work her way through "the big names club".

I am only talking about Saffron Burrows, not Jeff Goldblum, whom I really appreciate as an actor and definitely think of him as a "big name", indeed.

But maybe it's just me splitting hair and being a bit 'old school' in my definition of Big Name... back to when the actors had to work their a$$ off for at least 2 decades, if not longer, before being a Big Name and many talented actors were never considered big names anyway.

Money money...

::gasping for air::

I... can't... even... breathe....

I LOVE BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


However, I wish Vincent, Kathryn, and Eric all the best...
I have always said Goren is my all-time favorite character/fictional detective OF ALL TIME!!!!!!! No one will replace him in my book.
That being said, I have also always said that I am a fan of the WHOLE show, not just half of the show. I will continue to be watching LOCI, because it is my favorite TV Show of all time!!!! However, having said that, it does not mean I won't miss VDO/KE. I will miss them TERRIBLY! I am still in shock, but I am hoping it will end with a good, solid script AND closure for Goren and all his fans. [HINT, HINT: FIND DONNY ALIVE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] And, I am hoping Eames is happy, too! Also, Ross was growing on me this season, having accepted Bobby as the WONDERFUL detective he is..... Anywho, I must go and mourn.... I really do miss VDO/KE and even EB already!

But, please, if I may add a suggestion/request to all those who say they will not watch LOCI anymore once VDO/KE leave? Pretty please? This is all IMHO, [NOTE: opinion, not a demand...]

Will you PLEASE watch the first episode after they leave, and then make your decision whether you will continue to watch or not based on your opinion of the "NEW" show?

I will watch and see if LOCI continues to be my favorite TV show or not... You never know!



That's a good point, redheaded_tigger. It will be a different show that just happens to have the same name... I will check out this 'NEW' show and see how it will be.....

Don't get me wrong, I am in mourning like most fans are....



How do you know, Vincentsgal, that it wasn't VDO who said he didn't want to do the show anymore?



I thought the writing was good too!



That would be awesome to see Munch on LOCI!



Word!



Yep.




Me too!

I have seen Nichols' episodes and I have not been impressed. I always watched CI for Bobby, and if he is not there, I am sorry to say, then the show is simply not worth my time. IMHO, it's not the same show without the man it was created for. Sorry, I still can't bring myself to watch it after Bobby is gone.

Thanks for the support guys! At least I know I have 2 votes should I ever be crazy enough to want the job!

So, Goren , Eames and Ross will leave so, CI will be no more, I believe a new detective team won´t make justice to what Goren and Eames represent. Well I´ll continue to watch but won´t be the same.

do you realize that your entire siggie banner will have to be replaced? There won't be a single character on your banner on the show next year. how sad is that?

I guess I am in the "stand on principles side" of this. If what we are hearing and reading is true, and who knows at this point, it looks like USA was underhanded and did things to force Vincent to leave. You don't undercut your main character when a new one comes on board. They didn't do that when Chris Noth arrived. If TPTB had intended to mesh Goren and Nichols they would have had them to a show together last season - they could have used the premise that Zach has a knowledge of pyschology as well and would be helpful in bringing Goren out of shell shock. Not that everyone wants to see angst all the time, but knowing what Bobby has gone through gives you an appreciation of his affinity for compassion. But I believe the Goren character still needed some kind of nemesis or family conflict, or something ansgsty to bring that side out of him because that accentuated his profiling. I recognize what D'Onofrio was doing last year in showing Goren's recovery but they left him too flat all year. If you watch the proper order you can see the progression but there really was no finale for him at the end of the season. They could have used Season 8 to end the Goren and Eames team - although I never want them to leave - but they did not do that. On principle I want to make a statement that as a fan I have been jipped. If Bobby is going to return to his old self, they only gave glimpses of that. I could continue to watch the show if this situation had been handled better- if they had shown Goren and Nichols together and given us a reason to like his character too. But to throw Nichols in our faces as an imitation of ouir favorite actor is an insult. At this point I cannot bring myself to watch anything on NBC or USA. If TPTB get over themselves and decide to give us the Season 9 we deserve, then I could see myself checking out the show. If it ends up that USA doesn't care about the actors or the fans then I am done. Too bad the other actors are getting caught up in this because they didn't create the mess. I know - I ramble. But everyone has such good thoghts it puts my brain in hyperdrive. Sorry if I bore you.

I hear what your sayin' about season 8...and Gorens character...the angst and compassion is Robert Goren. Also, about Zach...perhaps, if the writers had made them old friends instead of Zach and Ross..then I would be able to understand the similarities between the two characters. You know? Had they been friends before then I'd see that, ya...both smart, quirky, and unconventional, (someone that Goren would consider a peer and friend)... But to just throw him in there, with a deep background with the Captian..(who we really didnt know that much about anyway)..and Ross actually LIKING him...(he never liked Goren, was down right hostel towards him)...and Zach took what a vacation for two years and comes back with a promotion and a Good to see ya? Come on! The new writers gave up on Goren a long time ago.

Its like they never watched the show before they started writing for it. Like, ok here's this cool guy Zach...lets beef up his story, give him a deep intriguing background, with smart parents he doesnt respect, a music genius, an old movie buff, childless, single, we'll dress him casual, cuz he's a groovy kinda guy and will throw in that he has a sense of humor and he's tall. This team will get the powerful storylines, the best of our ideas and efforts.

About that other team of decetives....humm lets see... we could probably give them one or two good stories.. Hey I know what we can do! We'll even do a follow-up on an old episode...ummm......ya I seem to remember a gambling kid that the big guy was fond of...lets just change up the names and go from there. The fans will be grateful that we threw them a bone.

How many seasons did it take for us to find out personal information about Goren and Eames? Seven seasons...thats how long...cant count season eight, because...well because they didnt give us anything...they dropped the ball with it. I cant reember any personal information about Goren and Eames, or even all the episodes they did...none stand out other then the Joey/Josh one...I dont know if I just missed it..I havent watched the episodes in the correct order, and dont know if it has anything to do with it..but these shows were the only ones that I walked away with a frown on my face...they didnt mesh with everything we knew about Goren and Eames.

It just seems like they dumped the Goren /Eames episodes in our laps, with a "there you go"...Enjoy, we have Zach to worry about. I can picture their glee at writing the Zach episodes, and their ...strain, afterthought?...with Goren and Eames.

I agree, they should have ended the Goren/Eames team throughout season eight (if that was the intention in the first place)..and introduced Zack to us on the last two or three episodes. We were jipped.

And now if we want to know how their story ends we have to stay tuned...to catch a glimps of Goren...but thats their point. Its how they keep us coming back, and keep an Ace in the hole if they start to see the show tank...Clever little sausages..

Absolutely right, couldn't have said it better, they think by dangling Goren like a carrot in our face we will follow the show, how clever they must think they are, and how stupid they think we are to beleive them. How could Goren possibly come back, his character would never mesh with the " New Lighter Show". Let them know how we feel by reflecting our anger in the ratings, they live and die by the numbers, deny them those numbers, not just for our show, but all their shows. they pride themselves on being number one in cable, how would they like a fast trip down the numbers slide, let's find out, boycott all USA and NBC shows including C.I. Maybe a cold dose of reality will convince them that they destroyed our show at a very big price!

I believe these talented actors could do "light & fluffy" and do it very well. None of the Law & Order shows were intended to be that way. The fact that these successful actors would all choose NOT to do the show this way and would rather carry their talent elsewhere to seek employment speaks volumes.

Right on! At this point I am all about supporting the actors and not the executives. Anyone who watched the Goren and Eames characters develop caught glimpses of their very own fluff - and we liked it. If Dick Wolfe had anything to do with this tragedy then I will not watch any other show he is ever affiliated with. Such disloyalty.

A friend of mine works at NBC in New York. I've been calling her (poor girl, I borderline harrassed her) and sending email to get the inside scoop about our show and what exactly happened.
Since she was not in the meetings and can only relate "grapevine" information please take my post with a grain of salt. According to my friendly informant, NBC executives feel Jeff Goldblum has added new energy to the series and his quirky character will bring new life and direction to Criminal Intent. (lighter fare?) This new life will not include as many personal storylines, but will focus on the psychological aspects of the criminal mind. (lighter fare???)


My informant also says the "fluff" and thousands of email are ticking the mailroom and executives off, but it is unlikely we will get any press statements about our show in the near future.

I'm thinking they don't want to encourage more fluff..LOL



My friend had no word at all about if KE, EB, or VDO chose to leave or if they were asked to take a paycut

In my emails and postcards I have made it clear that the TNT Network is now surpassing USA as the No. 1 cable network in my opinion. They seem to be doing the kind of shows USA and NBC used to produce. Unless LOCI is on I will not be watching USA because even though I may find some of the shows entertaining, there is no longer a balance between depth and fluff. Even though I would equate Tony Shalhoub with Vincent D'Onofrio in the ability to create unforgettable characters, I will not watch the final season on Monk in order to make my voice heard to the "ratings tzar" whoever that may be. They might think we will grow weary of the fight and give in to the changes as something "for our own good" but they have no idea how stubborn the fans of VDO can be when told to like it or else. That just makes me more detirmined to stand my ground.

Never heard of her.


If I thought Vincent was just tired of the grind, maybe I could accept that but he always said he was in for the long haul. I think they are just trying to save money. VDO may be back for guest appearances but what about Katherine if they kill her off. Poor old goalie. What's he to do. So sorry.

I think it is good news that the execs are ticked off. We must be having some kind of an effect. I agree with your interpretation of lighter fare -- it seems consistent with what we have been saying. I really don't think it is the money because Jeff isn't cheap either and if you do the math the difference in pay between the 2 over a season is only $800,000 with no raises. I wonder if Jeff is getting a raise? Eventually something will have to be said because the actors will be out and about filming their scenes -- I don't think they can avoid us permanently. I wish we could put together a picket line or something at the filming. If they really don't release any statements for an extended period of time, they will tick off the fans even more and create even more havoc for JG. It makes me want to push even harder.

Does anyone know how today's filming went? Were any of the show's stars present? Thanks.

I have to agree Infinity. I will be gone too. When I think of all the hours spent on this board talking of Vincent and Kate and what good times we all had I'm just sad that soon it will all be gone.
I suppose nothing lasts forever.

MORE FILMING TODAY!!!!!

According to On Location Vacations this is today's filming: http://www.onlocationvacations.com/categor...ming-locations/

Law and Order: Criminal Intent: Filming at two locations in Brooklyn, around Russell St & Nassau Ave and near N 11th and Kent.

Is this near anyone? Can anyone get a peek? Would love a report from the set.