I saw this mentioned in another thread and rather than take that thread off in another direction I thought I'd start a new one.

I have never been offended by the kind of murders on the series. (IRL, stabbing a victim multiple times is usually brought on by great rage so I can handle that.) The types of death scenes are not full of blood, guts and gore and are pretty tamed down, IMO, compared to many other series. Monk doesn't get into crimes of child abuse or rape with the victim being murdered, most of the murders are simple ones, hangings, stabbings, shootings and the like.

The one time I was really bothered was in Mr. Monk and The Kid, little Tommy roaming around carrying the chopped off finger of the violinist, that really bothered me. It's one of my favorite episodes so I'm not bashing the episode, it's just the thought of a small child walking around with that finger in his hand that really bothered me.

Let's not let this topic get out of hand and become another war but any thoughts on the subject?

This is my opinion. No need to retype it. Thanks kees.

You know, I never really thought about it, but you're right. And that's a bit scary, because it means I'm becoming de-sensitized to violence on tv, both real and fictional.

Hello Kees Lady

Most of the murders are not too graphic, with quick cut-aways so you don't get to see anything too gruesome, but sometimes I do find the poor victim's fate is quite often drawn out. The young girl in the 'Naked' episode was a case in point - perhaps because it looked liked she was going to get away, but the multiple stabbings were a bit too violent for me.

We get Monk in the UK at 4pm on a Saturday afternoons and I can always spot the shows that have been edited to fit the family friendly time slot. In the teaser for 'Mr. Monk Gets Fired' even though we didn't see the actual murder by chainsaw(?), the blood spattering on the windows was cut.

Some Monk shows I won't watch on my own late at night, like the very funny scene in '3 Julie's' where the Monk team pays homage to Psycho with the dead Mum in the rocking chair. Although the lines made me laugh and the cut to the 'dead skeleton lady' was necessary for the joke to pay off, it was creepy.

Another episode which is blood-gory is the 'Girl Who Cried Wolf' with no warning given before various bloody shots are shown.

On the whole, I don't find Monk a violent show and where it's got a bit too gory for me, it's always been justified by the storyline. If I had one piece of constructive criticism, it would be to shorten the tease (where it doesn't add to the story) on the victim's fate.

I have never been offended by the murder scenes in the show, what does bother me is that most of crime that takes place seems to center around the main characters. The show was much better when the crimes didn't circle the four characters.

MHO,

Sue~

With only a few Stateside TV shows being aired in Japan, I really do not know the violence level of the scenes but I must admit slight resistence to the ocassional murder scenes in the episodes but since it is a story of crime, these acts must be a part of the storyline but they are for the most part executed with discretion.

However, I must also say that I was somewhat taken back by the ferocity of Monk's kicking the fallen man who had planted the bomb that killed Trudy but I guess the writers felt that to have lessen such a graphic expression of hatred would have been a distortion of the depth of his feelings that he has kept inside for so many years.

Hey Hello Kees_lady,
I agree Monk sometimes shows violent scenes. The one really scared me was in Mr. Monk gets Fired. The thorso exam was creepy! However, compared to othe shows (CSI, principally), Monk is quite soft, and many times the crimes are hidden, we just imagine how terrible they were, which, in fact, can be worse.
I think we have to admit these scenes are well producted, almost real.
Some fight scenes also show brutallity and something that always bothers me is when they show Adrian fighting and after being hit a lot, there's no bruises on his face. Ok, he's supposed to be a hero, but as far as I know he's not a superhero. Yet. . So I guess there should be some indication of the fight consequences. I'm not saying I like to see Adrian getting punches, but what I mean is: What's the advantage of elaborating an almost real scene of crime and letting some obvious details out of the final version? Could it be on purpose in order to reduce our tension and remind us it's only a TV show? Well, I don't understand.

Hugs

I've never felt that there was a lot of violence on the show. Sure, there's blood and stuff, but he's a homicide detective, there's got to be murders.

I would say that Monk is rather tame compared to other crime shows on TV today. Sometimes the act of the crime bothers me..like in Mr Monk gets Fired...I was shocked that they did show blood splatter on the window. But compared to horror flicks that are now out Monk is very very tame!

This is my 2 cents...

I agree. Compared to other crime shows, Monk's crime scenes aren't bad at all. I do think some of them have been kind of "gross" like the blood splattering on the window and in Mr. Monk and the Kid when Tommy finds the finger. Compared to other things it could be a lot worse. I am glad that it isn't.

The violence on Monk has never offended me.

I agree with those who say that murder scenes in Monk are rather tame comparing with other shows... Even so, it's part of the detective show. When after a murder scene Monk arrives to the place, he's not showing any unnecessary senses about the victim (he's even more concerned about himself most of the times) - but that's the only way to catch the details and solve the crime. I'm trying the same - concentrate on the detective story.

But I was quite satisfied, however, in the "Mr. Monk and the missing granny", where there's no murder at all - it was maybe the most peaceful episode in Monk...

This thread interests me because I started the same thread in April 2008:
http://forums.usanetwork.com/index.php?sho...=399680&hl=

There I said :


That thread went the same way this thread is going (and then disappeared from lack of interest). What annoyed me in April is that I felt ignored as people went their own way, which is their right. What I mean is that no one commented on the specific incidents I cited. Rather they went into their song and dance about the general disposition of the show. I wasn't interested in comparing "Monk" to more violent shows; I was wondering if viewers agreed or disagreed about the specific instances I mentioned.

Two other instances of unnecessary violence:
¶ Buys A house -- it seemed unnecessarily violent to show the old man rolling down the stairs. If I were directing the scene, I'd show the nurse shoving him, then pan up to her face as we HEAR (not see) the guy rolling down the stairs.
¶ Other Detective -- today, someone who agreed with me noted that in the episode the security guard didn't have to get killed (along with the shop owner).

Don't feel to offended by digretions such as the one you noted. Threads seem to be almost organic and take on a life of their own after a while. I started a thread that concerned Natalie's attitude towards Monk's taking up art and at the end posters were discussing art styles.

In my oppinion, violence is never necessary, I mean there's no excuse about killing a man (except self-defending as it was in Mr. Monk and the red herring).
For example - Mr Monk goes to the theatre, Mr Monk and the blackout, Mr Monk goes home again, Mr Monk and the 12th man - it almost unbelievable how could one kill a man with such a dumb reason...
But it's true, people are violent for most of the times unreasonably...and a good detective show like Monk has to deal with it too..

That's because so many of us 'live here' and can't stop chatting with each other -- but to get back on topic --

I have mixed feelings about violence on television.

Monk is perhaps the most violent show I watch. (As you might guess -- I don't watch a lot of new television. I'm more of a vintage TV nut.) There have been several scenes that I have found repulsive -- the blood spattering on the window that was previously mentioned. Then there was another (I think it might have been 3 Julies) where the woman was stabbed, and then the blood flows from her mouth -- I found that a bit graphic for my taste...

But... I don't find the violence on Monk gratuitous. And I don't necessarily think that the fact that they show it as repulsive is a bad thing. Monk is, among all the other wonderful things it is, a detective show that deals with murder. Murder is a pretty gruesome thing. Occasionally showing the crime -- or portions of it -- helps us to sympathize with the victim, root for the detectives, and hate 'the guy' who did it. It gives us a vested emotional interest in what is about to follow.

But I think there is a line -- a place where things become too gory (for me anyway), and violence is shown because people want to see it. This visual blood lust, in my opinion, lowers the repulsion to violence through systematic desensitization -- and will end up with the cheapening of human life and the increase of violence in our culture. (I don't think that is happening on Monk at all.)

But on the other hand, the sanitizing of murder, as was the case in many television shows in the '70s, also has a danger -- that in desensitizing people to violence because it looks so clean and easy.

I've known people who were murdered -- and I once had the 'pleasure' of meeting a very amiable young man several weeks before he brutally murdered his ex-wife. None of it is pretty. I think responsible television will do its best to accurately portray the gruesome nature of murder without glorifying it -- and I think it is something 'Monk' has done well.

This questions has been raised before and then I stated that I didn't think Monk was violent at all. Of course that made me start paying more attention. While I don't think the show is overly violent and very tame compared to other shows, I could see where it might bother some people. I thought the old guy get pushed down the stairs in the season premiere was fairly violent and really could have been shot differently, and that seems to be where I stand. I don't think the show is too violent, but now I am aware when I think there is unnecessary violence.

I do think your right, kees!

Like in "Joins A Cult" where he stabbed the hooker multiple times and there was blood all over his carseat.

In "TV Star" (I think that was the name of the episode.) where he slits her throat and even at the ending scene where they were showing his "TV Show" and the guy shot a "blood bullet" at the lady and they actually showed it going through her heart. Yuck. That was a little much for me.

Three Julies-Okay, so I actually think the dead granny was pretty funny just because it was so psychotic, and I love psychotic things. But, the part that was too much for me is when the guy stabbed his wife, Julie, and blood came out her mouth. Yuck. Maybe I didn't mention that I'm Hemaphobic...I HATE blood! Sure, it was fake, but still.

Gets Fired-I agree with everyone who said that chainsaw, Charles Manson-esque murder was too much. It really was. Did we really need to see that blood spatter on the window? And it was a little obvious too. I mean, if there were any passerbys. I mean, if you walked by a house and saw blood spatter onto a window, what? Would you assume he popped open a ketchup bottle? I think not.

-chik

I think this is a really interesting thread. I didn't realize it before but there are a few times I turn my head while watching Monk. This usually only happens when I'm watching reruns of an episode and I'm anticipating a part that made me really squeamish the first time I watched it. I'm the type of person who doesn't want to miss a thing the first time I see an episode.
"goodbyegirl" mentioned the blood and gore in "Girl Who Cried Wolf" and while I really liked that episode, that's one that creeps me out, too! I think it's because of the surprise element combined with the gore....how that guy keeps popping up with a screwdriver in his head! Sometimes I'll watch episodes in bed late at night and that's one that I don't watch alone in the dark. haha. I'm a wimp like that!
A few other violent deaths that stand out to me because they affected me are (and forgive me for not naming the episode title): when a security guard is dragged to death by the murderer's car--even though it doesn't show this actually happening due to how it's shot, it disturbed me because I had never thought of a scenario like that before and I found myself thinking how horrible that would feel to know that you have like 10 seconds until you'll be dragged to death when if you only had a simple, proper tool, you could be set free but there's no time;
when Julie's basketball coach is electrocuted in the shower in the locker room;
and others have already mentioned the old man getting dumped down the stairs in the first episode of season 7--I didn't find it necessary to show him actually taking the tumble--the long haul up the stairs in the wheelchair with him asking where she was taking him and then the camera focusing on her face when she pushed him would have been sufficient for me.
Lastly, I find the violence on Monk affects me the most when I can relate in some way to the victim (similar job or lifestyle or I could see myself getting caught in the same wrong place at the wrong time). But overall, I turn to Monk because it's less violent than most shows I see on TV and I find it relaxing to watch.

This thread has helped me realise why I sometimes have to watch the murder parts through Monk-like splayed fingers. In the tease section (or before the victim buys it) when we get to know the victim (a bit), I think I start to connect with them and then start to care. It was upsetting to see that young, fresh-faced kid running all over the beach trying to get help, make valiant attempts to escape, nearly did and then you see the killer really going for some powerful stabs.

Even in the 'Other Detective', the shop owner seemed a bit snotty but he obviously cared for his dog and after he was killed, I started to get genuinely concerned as to what would happen to the pooch.

And during the 'Jury/12th Man' episode (which is one of my favorites) I was really rooting for Monk to save the next victim and I'm not sure the joke quite worked - Monk was so obsessed with getting the car dial up to an even number, he missed the killer and another juror bit the dust. Seemed like a decent guy too. Usually Monk, with a superhuman effort, can really focus to try and save someone (no coincidence it's often one of the gang) but this time it was played for laughs. In 'the Godfather' he got really down because his OCD stopped him from arresting the bad guy, but this time lives weren't in danger, but he knew that juror number was about to meet his killer.

Still love him though

On a slightly off-topic note, the gruesome way in which the first victim in 'Jury/12th Man' was felt by the writers to be pretty grisly for a family orientated show. They generally try and stick to no more than 2 murders per episode.

Oh comme on, people... I'll bake a cherry-pie for everyone who can point-out another detective show less violent than Monk

I can understand why you were annoyed. This is why I have never started a topic. I was afraid no one would comment, then my feelings would be hurt.

As far as the violence goes, as I stated before it does not bother me. In Buys a House and Other Detective I can certainly understand your view point. Perhaps the writers need to tone it down some.

Perhaps in both cases, the reason for showing the extra violence in addition to the nurse pushing the old man and the security guard getting shot was to make the murderers into more unsavory characters. If you think about it, both murders happened in the teaser of the episodes in question, and we don't see the nurse again until the scene with her own murder taking place, and in the case of The Other Detective, we don't see the bad guys again until the 'less bad' of the two is brought in for questioning, and then later the really bad one is arrested. Before his arrest, we basically just hear him on the phone with Marty. We don't have them around throughout the episode, playing cat and mouse with Monk, being mean and spiteful or just cold and carefree about what they have done to make us angrier at them, so they have to make an impact, go anextra mile to insure that they aren't afterthought villians. The villains that most people remember and hate most of all are the ones that get a lot of screen time and/or interaction with Monk, like Dale, the teacher in Back to School, and the porn king in Playboy.

Actually, with the more gruesome murder scenes I can remember, this applies to most, and I can think of additional things that could have some bearing on the amount of graphic violence we see.

1 Gets Fired- The killer was seen in the teaser, and not shown again until around the three quarter mark, which is not really proportional to the fact that he killed two people (one murder we didn't even see) and was trying to cheat his ex-wife out of alimony or her share of marital assets. Add to this that Commisioner Brooks was also in this episode and was far, far more unlikable than Paul Harley was, especially if you take out how horribly he murdered his mistress and how cool he was about it.

2. Buys a House- this pretty little blonde nurse kills the little old man, then we don't see her again until a little over halfway through, and then for just a few seconds. She never meets Monk, and with Brad Garrett doing such a spectacular job as Honest Jake, it might be easy to forget that there was actually a murder before he came into it and killed the nurse, there was a death that Monk had to investigate that brought him to the house in the first place. Add to that, this little nurse, in her second and last scene, ends up being murdered by a man who towers over her (BG can be a very intimidating and scary presence as we get to se in this episode). She had to die in order for the gang to be able to tie the pieces together, but for her to be killed by someone as large and capable of seeming so evil as Honest Jake, we might feel horrified or bad for her, if we didn't remember actually seeing the horrible way in which she also committed the murder of someone else who was weaker than her.

3. Other Detective- The store owner didn't really have to be shot, either, in my opinion but I think that the idea was that because these guys would disappear and the focus of the episode would be so much on how Marty was figuring out everything he knew and they wouldn't show up again till late in the episode, it was important to impress upon the audience that these were callous, cruel men, and to fully illustrate the folly of Mrs Eels and Marty playing their game or witholding information from the police in order to further Marty's career.

4. Naked Man- the murderer was a very pretty, very young woman who was a very good actress, I personally wouldn't have thought to suspect her, especially with Monk running around going on about how diabolical and evil nudists were. So much attention was paid to the nudists, and between Diedrich Bader's hilarious hippy-dippy, free love Chance Singer and Alfred Molina's arrogant, cocky, all about me rich guy Peter Magneri, it might be a little bit easy to forget that there had actually been something more criminal going on in the episode than not wearing enough sunscreen in places the sun doesn't usually shine and cheating gullible Leiutenants out of $200-$300 in faulty technology.

But it does seem that a large contributing factor in all of them is that they don't wish to downplay how evil murder is, so when the guy in an episode is not seen much, doesn't interact with Monk much, or if there is someone else in the episode who is more unlikable or deplorable than the murderer (and it does happen, we've all had out 'Mr. Pee's), they make the murder scene more violent, graphic, in order to horrify us more.

I understand the abhorence of some to violence in being depicted in any form but to these gentle souls I would ask what would be permitted in a series that details the crime solving activites of a homicide detective?

I don't think anyone wants to return to the sanitized depiction sometimes by shadows of gruesome murders nor do we need God Father 3 incarnate as well.

As some insightful posters have pointed out the murders are an integral part of the story both in terms of the plot but also in conditioning the audience emotionally to sympathize, empathize or feel outright rage that can only be placated by bringing the culprit to justice.

I hope this is along your thread.
I think the violence is appropriate to the story line and never too gory. It is definitely not like the A-Team back in the 80's where blood didn't exist even after car flips etc. I want the reality of the situation. The one time I think they slipped with Monk is Prt. 1 of "On the Run". Monk had a couple of scrapes, a cut lip, but the next scene in the station, obviously the same night, those injuries were almost gone. The next day in court they were completely gone. Fast healer or continuity? That slip lost the edginess that could have added to the intensity of the story. The reality of that scenaro was lost.
Am I off the subject?

Yes, Tommy walking around with a finger was strong, and even the story that Monk told him was pretty strong but maybe it was to contrast the resolution for Tommy's life. At that age he would be too young to even know it happened later in life. In other words. He wouldn't be scared and unfortunately he wouldn't even remember Monk.

Liv, thanks for taking the time to go through each unnecessarily violent example (my opinion) I gave. Your comment about it being necessary "to make the murderers into more unsavory characters" is interesting.

I don't know why I bother, but:
¶ it seems to me that good film makers should be able to find ways to convey the evilness/horror of the murderers without overly showing the gory explicit details.
¶ I never said that "Monk" was generally violent or too violent. I just wanted to draw the producers' attention to parts of a few episodes that I thought were too violent. Other shows being more violent than "Monk" has nothing to do with anything I said or find important.
¶ "Monk" is mostly a comedy/character study, so I don't think that the producers have to stress the gory details of the murders and murderers. It's an hour show, we can remember them. I also think that excessive gore can detract from the humor, warm characters, etc.

In "Gets Fired" I never objected to the blood splatter being shown. At least we never saw the mistress suffer; the killing was off-screen.

I still think it unnecessary to show the old guy tumbling down the stairs in "Buys A House."
The murder was graphic enough the way I presented it and the way the old guy kept deliriously, pathetically talking as he was about to be killed. As I said, it was enough for her to push him, and then show her face as the viewers could hear him tumbling down the stairs. Stark enough for me.

In "the Other Detective" I don't know what to add. I can only say that one murder was enough for me. Not that important to me, the security guard getting killed. The main thing is that the main focus (90%) of the episode was Monk getting depressed and jealous over the Other Detective stealing Monk's thunder. I wasn't too concerned about the murder mystery part in any event, so for me they didn't have to impress me with how evil the murderers were.

That knife attack in the "Naked Man" was very,very prolonged and gruesome. Whatever good it may have done (remind us of the murder), doesn't outweigh the unnecessary violence, for me. By the way, this was one of the few Monk's I figured out regardless of what a good actress the roommate was. When the murderer said something like, "she was more than my roommate, she was my best friend," that is always a sign of the murderer in Monkland.

No problem, and thanks.




Ah, now, see, this section brings up something else; that the amount of violence that it 'too much' or 'unnecessary' is rather subjective. See, I don't have as much of a problem watching the scenes you just mentioned, but till this day, I have been unable to sit through and actually watch the entire sequence when Adrian was in the coffin in Cobra. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest, just watching a few seconds, especially the part where Monk wakes up and finds that he is in the coffin, are extremely difficult for me to sit through. I also find it very uncomfortable, disturbing and just generally can not watch the scene in the first Harry Potter movie when Fluffy drips drool on Ron's head, or watching someone on TV allowing a roach or a scorpion to crawl on their skin. Spiders don't bother me as much, for some reason. But I don't mean like minor heebie jeebies, here. I'm talking about jump out of my seat and run out of the room to have a panic attack. I'm talking about screaming at my husband to change the channel or physically attacking him for the remote, in a very literal way. If I have some warning that it's coming, it's not as bad, but if I'm just surfing along or something and it's there with no warning, there is very likely to be a freak out at my house. I wish I was joking. Also, I can't bear to see children or animals come to harm in fictional or non fictional shows, and one thing I really, really appreciate about Monk is that Andy Breckman has said he will not cross that line, at least as far as kids are concerned. He draws the line at depicting children being hurt or brought to any harm. My daughter fervently wishes he would extend that to senior citizens as well, she can't stand Class Reunion because of the older lady that got pushed down the stairs in that episode, she hates to see people that remind her of her grandparents getting hurt.

Basically, everyone has a different set of buttons, a different limit to how far is too far. For me, personally, I don't really think that Monk goes too far, at least not often. The opening scene of Naked Man, 12th Man, and Gets Fired are the three episodes where I think that they may have come closest to pushing past my own personal limits, but I know that what pushes my buttons isn't the same thing that pushes everyone else's buttons.

Your post reminded me of the Goes to Mexico episode. It was a pretty good ep, but Monk going thirsty (because his favorite water was unavailable) really bothered me, made me physically uncomfortable. I became very thirsty during the episode. I got mad at Monk for not drinking. ... .... It's also an example of over-the-top behavior damaging the quality of an episode. Suspension of disbelief has to crumble at some point.

The murder that bothers me the most is in Cabin Fever, the guy getting electrocuted in his bathtub, when his wife tossed the radio into the tub with him. The way the poor guy screams is awful. Just thinking about it makes me shudder. I have this fear of electrocution...

.... and wives?

The witch in The Wizard Of Oz still scars me. It is a childhood memory. I still watch it, and remember how I jumped in my Daddy`s lap and hid my eyes. When I watch it now I say it`s only a movie, it`s only a movie. And sometimes I just say, lobby, lobby ,lobby. All kidding aside, I am afraid of that witch. I have to take the good with the bad.

There was no violence in tonight`s episode.

not unless you count the psychological terror of knowing your husband is going to kill you.

I was saying there was no blood. Yes, the wife had alot of "psychological terror, that`s why Monk was in a hurry to help her.

Hmm...How about "Quincy"? I'll take mine with whipped cream, thank you!

Can we count 'Quincy?' He wasn't a detective, he was a medical examiner so it wasn't a 'true' detective show but was more of a 'medical' show.

How about "Dragnet' with Jack Webb?

Nancy Drew? Hardy Boys? -- on TV in the '70s. When do I get my pie?

I have to admit, I'm a little confused here, because I haven't seen these shows. But as I did some research and found that Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys were shows for the younger audience and Monk is a show (maybe) for all? Could that count as equal?
I may believe that Dragnet wasn't very violent show, but it aired in 50s! I mean, if they even wanted to be violent, they couln't do it very convincing (here I remebered the famous Hitchcock's "Psycho" shower scene - even for a horror film it's not convincing at all!)

Ah but who do I try to fool - I just haven't got my ingredients for a cherry-pie yet!

Okay, okay, Quincy was a bit of a stretch....but how many medical examiners go out of their way to actually SOLVE a murder and DISCOVER who did it, etc??? I guess I just wanted some pie.......

How about "Murder She Wrote"??? Oh, wait, she was a writer...and just stuck her nose into everyone's business.....but she DID solve murders......

Amateur detectives count as detective shows -- they're in the cozy mystery genre, which I favor since it does tend to be less graphically violent.

And even though Quincy was in forensics -- since he still solved murders, I'd consider him a detective.

Thanks for agreeing...I like those cozy shows, too. There is enough REAL violence in the world, I don't need more blood and guts for escape.

Hmmm.....Matlock? Psych? The Dead Zone? Bring on the pie!!!!

Columbo? Hey, who is the judge in this game? You, Chacal.?

I think, that Monk is very nonviolence murder-mystery show. So, when there happens or is even a hint to something violence act, it is then conspiciuous. The violence in Monk hasn´t disturbed me, I have watched a lot of detective mysterious and police series, and maybe I am too used to see violence in tv-series. Because Monk investigates murders, there have to be a violence act somewhere. In Monk they don´t always show the murder. I agree, that sometimes the murder act would not need to be so dramatic, like in 12th man. The murder in the astronaut bothered me also, because it was so cold-bloody. A woman has been drugged some days, and then the machine hanged her...
I personally am more scary with horror movies, so In Three Julies the scene, where Monk was alone in the room with ´the mother´ was creepy. What kind of mummy there was waiting...

I think, that little Tommy with the finger was a bit makaber sight, but it has it´s reason in the story line. And so little child probable doesn´t understand, that she/he has a finger in hand.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Monkwriter wrote



I think some here would find blood packs being used in this episode too graphic. If blood splatter on glass is too much then seeing Adrian getting shot and blood spurting out would be too much for many also.

I don't find Monk graphically violent. I enjoy watching TV that is far more graphic than Monk so there should have been blood in this scene, spurting blood that pooled on the pier for the sake of reality but I think it would have been too graphic for kids and many of the viewers. Using ones imagination can often make a scene more real and seeing Adrian pushed back by the shots was probably as real as the writers wanted to take this scene.