LMAO!!! I got it! Add ROUS to Monk's list of phobias!

And why do you miss the summations? They still have them.

Randy- "...put the cup down. "The Cap" throwing the cup. Randy you were correct.

The guy - ."..table & 5 chairs." " .....that's why it took me 45 moves to win." UUUuugggg. you are SO "the guy"

The Guy- "Do you play chess Mr. Monk?" Monk - "..We already are" YOU GO Monk!!!

Monk & Natalie at the funeral home.....no other words are needed just LOL!

Natalie- "We should kiss" OMG too funny. Nat....don't drink ANYTHING from "the guy" ...EVER.

The Captain - "Don't do it.......break my heart" OMG GREAT scene. True friends can & DO put it all on the line ,to keep one from being stupid. AND..."the one" should always listen. And we usually do. BECAUSE....true friends tend to think clearly in situations ...when we can't.....& so we rely on trust....& true friendship.

Monk planting the evidence then taking it back.....you did listen to your friend. Good boy Monk. In that moment , I know you made Trudy smile.


"The guy" not knowing about poison yet knowing EVERYTHING about the Oleander ( sp?) plant . Oh yeah, poison...right....I forgot about that.

In the DA's office...Monk looking at "The Guy" Check & oh yeah...MATE!

Monk actually trying to play chess....& STILL actually trying........gave me plenty of time to finish my "Chess for Dummy's" book so.... I'm ready to play now. Let's go! LOL

Monk - "...check mate" OHHHHH YEAHHHHH!

Natalie- "...Can I have your autograph?" CLEVER. You go girl...and cash that check.

LOVED IT ALLLLLL!

B
Monk does so rock on. I have been entertained yet again.

After someone dies, their checking account is usually kept open for a period of time, (I think about a year) to make sure that any checks that are still out have time to get to the bank and clear. At least that is the way it was done when my husband's great grandmother died.

Oh, yeah, that was yet another great moment, and when we heard it, my daughter and I turned to each other, high fived and shouted,"PWNED!"

Yes, that pun was intended.

For me this was a brilliant episode, and that scene between Monk and Stottlemeyer in the interrogtation room was just perfect. I agree with deadlock about the way it was filmed with the reflections and the overall 'darkness' of the scene. The acting was wonderful and Ted Levine nearly broke my heart with the Captain's 'don't break my heart' line.

'We should kiss' and Natalie's eagerness to make sure Monk knew she didn't mean it definitely made me LOL out loud.

Also, apologies if this has been mentioned and I've missed it, but Stottlemeyer has apparantly had the 'evidence planting' talk with nine other people, making Monk number ten. Ah, the little things =]

Thanks Liv

I think in UK everything is frozen..again not sure..but at least that clears that niggle up for me.

Good episode...although I missed not seeing Neven...still he is in the next episode..so I shall not be deprived for too long.

Quinnie

You know -- this led me to some false conclusions when I was first watching the episode. I theorized that the wife was a pawn, and the husband threatened her deliberately to get Monk into the "game." I thought he initiated the whole thing just to get to Monk -- a theory that did not end up being right.

You know, if they'd kept this one on the back burner, this would have made an excellent Monk movie -- they could have really brought out the chess master's manipulation of people, and more fully developed the conflict and suspense between Monk and this man -- whose character was well portrayed and nemesis-worthy.

Just a personal opinion here, but does anyone else think that this episode and the first seemed a little rushed -- almost like you really could have used another half hour (or hour) to see it all well-developed? They seemed a little choppy, and they were over waaaaay too early. (Or maybe that's me just wanting more Monk. ) But IMO there doesn't seem to be enough time in an hour to do what they want to accompish anymore.

BTW -- this is NOT a criticism by any stretch of the imagination -- only that they've got so much interesting stuff going on that I'd like to see more of. Perhaps a longer format would be more suited to Monk?

Yes, but...

The lab guy doesn't come back in and say "We found no oleander." He comes back in and says conclusively that this woman died of natural causes -- that is an absolute statement, and a scientific no-no. Even after running every test in the book (which would take considerably longer than portrayed) you could not make such a statement considering the advanced decay that must have taken place since the first wife died.

The chess master also lucked out (unless he researched it first) to find a young woman buried nearby who really died of natural causes, and who died around the same time (so the amount of decay would be consistent). I don't find that an inconsistency -- since we are not told when he switched the headstones. But if he had switched the stones too early he would have run the risk of it being discovered by the family of the other deceased woman, or Tatiana's other family.

I'm not saying it destroyed the episode or anything. I loved this one. Just that I found the toxicology report a little too quick and a little too definitive than realistically possible.

(And sorry for the double post -- I'm just catching up on the board now that my houseguests have left.)

I don't take this post as a criticism at all. I've noticed the same thing too--not sure I'd describe it as rushed, but it appears they're paced differently, and it's not consistent throughout the episodes. I found it jarring in the first episode, although I enjoyed the show.

They seem to be developing certain aspects of Adrian's character and it may be a result of that. One thing that's jarring is not having the "Here's what happened" line in either of the two new episodes. They still have the summation but I'm not hearing that line. I see that as part of the show's branding and they need to put that back in there, IMO. I'm seeing a lot fewer wipes in the new episodes--I think they need to pop a few of those back in here or it looks like an overnight transformation to me and that's jarring as well--to me....I'm not speaking for others in here. In addition to a new therapist, we've lost a few things that provided a sense of familiarity in the shows.

I think they need to slow down some of the changes they're making until we've all acclimated to Dr. Bell. Have these other changes bleed in slowly after the character's gotten more than two therapy sessions with the new shrink under his belt. I'd start easing into these changes beginnng with the eighth to tenth new episode. I think that's why a lot of people are having some difficulty adjusting to the new episodes. Everything that changed, changed from the very first episode.

It is misleading, what he says. "There was no poison in the body. We didn't find a thing." That's exactly what it sounds like he's saying. I can't see that they'd find Oleander in his garden and find out he had the same plant 15 years ago, and then exhume a body and still order a full toxicology. I'd love to get Joe Toplyn's answer to this one. That lab guy's line puts me back on the fence with this one. Teresa seems to have some connections--wonder if she can get this one answered?

IMO, the first two eppys have been off...onto the third!

I agree. It's clearly not been the same Monk that we loved to watch. The murder scenario in this episode was stupid. Natalie asking Monk if they should kiss was stupid & out of character. Monk thinking about & attempting to plant evidence was out of character!!! Not wanting to cash the woman's check was stupid...she's dead and it would have been her killer husband's money!! You would think Natalie would get smarter as the seasons go, but for example, she still waits for stingy Monk to write her out checks. I'm not impressed with the lack of creativity here.

I revisited the oleander issue.

First, I checked online, and found some results similar to those LIMAMA did concerning oleander poisioning, but every reference I found involved accidental ingestion of natural oleander -- I didn't see any reference to taking the sap and concentrating it into a powder. But I'm thinking that step could be the thing that made it more deadly and faster-acting.

Second, I watched the writer's commentary. The answer to the question is in there. They searched through a book on poisons that Hy Conrad owned and deliberately picked one that was fast-acting, readily available in Ca, and would simulate a heart-attack. That's enough for me. So unless someone can provide proof that concentrated powdered sap of oleander would take longer to work, I'll trust the research the writers did. There's no gap in credibility to me -- at least there.

I found reserach that indicated it takes 12-18 hours for the FIRST initial symptons of Oleander poisioning to appear...at the same time, I've found nothing that indicated you can sip concentrated Oleander powder and pass within MINUTES...as this eppy would seem to infer. I've read that it is a very bitter poison, however, I don't have Oleander growing in my backyard, thus I can't replicate the poisioning...and I'm not about to go to the cemetery and try to move two large headstones on my own...

But I can say this...a close family member tried to kill himself by drinking anti-freeze, and he did this over the course of 2-3 days in small amounts, and it wasn't until the third day that he exhibited symptoms....

I would agree with you on the 'We should kiss!' thing, that was pretty lame, what I would expect from a poorly written fan fiction. Not that all fan fiction is poorly written, there is some really good fan fiction, but there is a lot of badly written stuff too, and this is the kind of thing I expect to see in a poorly written fan fiction rather than something written by a professional. The guy obviously knew they were there, they are rather distinct looking people that this smart guy knows are investigating him, so he would not only notice them, but recognize them whether they were kissing or not. And I would think two people making out in a car would be more likely to attract attention than two people who are just sitting in a car.

I'm kind of with you on Monk sneaking in to plant evidence, but then this case was one that he had associated strongly with Trudy, and he wants the person who killed Trudy to pay for what he did, and over and over again, we have seen that he is more willing or able to do some very out of character things in order to try to find out who killed her and make them pay, so I think some of that desperation transfered over to this case. He probably was thinking that he knew this guy did it, and this was how the guy did it, and it was eating him up that he couldn't find proof of it. The same would go for him not cashing the woman's check, he felt like he owed her something because she died after he came to see her. I think this case bothered him quite a bit and he took it more personally because he saw it as similar to how he couldn't save Trudy. I know that she hired him to prove her husband killed her after he did, but that;'s not how Monk saw it. To him, and really to any cop, he felt like it was infinitely better, his job to protect her and keep her safe so he wouldn't have to prove her husband did it and how.

All in all, though, I'm starting to think that Joe Toplyn may be one of my favorite writers. He also wrote Bad Girlfriend and he seems to be good at writing strong emotional content and about the friendship between Monk and Stottlemeyer that persists in spite of conflict. He reminds us that these two have known each other for a very long time, longer that Natalie and Randy and Sharona have known either of them. I appreciate any writer than gives Ted Levine a chance to use his acting muscle, and I adore the writer who got rid of Linda Fusco. Maybe that doesn't quite equate to him having great writing chops on its own, I would have been happy if they got rid of her by having an anvil drop out of the sky onto her head, but I am appreciative of it nonetheless.

The Genius should have had the first wife cremated when she died, or else had her dug up eventually to be cremated. I think any Genius would do that.

Doesn't bother me at all the matter of how long it takes for the poison to do its job. Suspension of disbelief and all. The TV show is like a chess game. We are given rules (especially rules that don't contradict common/popular knowledge) and go on from there. Some of the given rules are: the flower can be ground up to make fast acting poison; and a poisoned person can be dug up 15 years later, and the poison will be discovered in the body remains; and a coroner can quickly test for unnatural causes of death ... ...... .... But do we know when she took the poison? Maybe she took it a day or days prior to her death.

I thought it was a very good episode, of course. One thing that turned me off some is that I --like others here-- didn't believe what the woman told Monk at the start (just as the "Leper" lied to Monk at the start). I felt Monk should have been skeptical. What really annoyed me is that having met the woman just that once for so short a time (even with the Trudy-like-hand-holding), Monk would become so emotionally distraught so early in the case that he would be thinking of planting "false" evidence. Didn't ring true.

I think the "We should kiss" (and "I didn't mean it") remark by Natalie was one of the best and truest things in the episode. It was a simple, honest, natural thing to think/say. She said it because she was FLUSTERED and SURPRISED by the Genius suddenly showing up. She and Monk were reading his books in the car because they are trying to nail him for the wife's murder, and then he suddenly appears to see what they were doing. Obviously, if she had more than a split second to think about it, she wouldn't have said that. It was humorous. And "Monk" is mostly a dry, human comedy. The writers were also having fun with the audience. Everyone knows that they are teasing us with a likely eventual Natalie-Monk romance, and everyone enjoys it.

Also, Monk should have picked-up on the dedication in the book! "For my queen, Tatiana." Any good detective would have wanted to know who Tatiana was! It wasn't the current wife's name for sure.

And that, "I can't leave him because he will find me" is total nonsense. So, it would be better to stay with him and get killed for sure?!?!? Very lame scenario!!!

And, they would have done a tox screen before they released the body. The tox screen would have showed alcohol in her system and probably poison. And thus, the police would have sealed-off the house since the husband was the prime suspect. So, the husband's plan was no genius plan!

I had seen the commentary--I was just referring to the question on the toxicology test, rather than how the oleander was made. I was just talking about whether it was a full toxicology or just a test for this one substance, and how long that test may have taken.

Yes, I know, Yvette -- I was referring to another poster (whom I think you have on "ignore") who questioned whether the oleander could have killed the woman that quickly. She cited a quick google search that turned up a longer lead time before symptoms appear, but that was for naturally occuring oleander, not a powdered concentrated form.

Very true. I had noticed it, but never saw any point in mentioning it. Except maybe it shows how peevish Monk is. He made the snapish remark to Natalie when they were in the car, and Natalie was reading the Genius' books to find a clue to the murder, to get into the guy's head. How better to do it than to read something personal like the dedication in a book? Yet, when Natalie starts reading the dedication, Monk lashes out at her. Monk sure is no "Mr. Congeniality."

Oh! Mmkay. I thought you had taken my previous question as a challenge, which it wasn't. Thought I had accidentally offended you. I had a profuse apology locked and loaded.

LOL. Thanks, Liv -- I resemble that remark. (I did a kiss to cover up a stake-out in a recent fan fic -- and it has been used in a lot of boy-girl detective shows)

But I agree, the ploy was rather silly to use here, since it had no chance of convincing "the guy", although I enjoyed it. I took it as more of a one-line spoof of some of these other shows -- or even possibly fan fiction. Although I'm a shipper, I don't really read any Freudian slip in here. This was a joke and a tease. And as a joke it worked for me.

Given the fact that this was an otherwise healthy woman (so far as we know, she's just a boozer) who suddenly and inexplicably died---and especially given the fact that she had gone to Monk saying her husband planned to kill her and that she died ON THE SAME DAY that she went to see Monk---that the husband getting the body so quickly so he could cremate her before any kind of medical test could happen---that stretches the bounds of credulity, in my book. Again, in order for the eppy to play out as it did, it HAD to be done this way. Like in the HOUSE eppy, when the entire plot hinged on Monk calling the handyman from hell and no other handyman in the San Fran area (and that this killer handyman was just sitting around the phone waiting for Monk to call).

But this is TV land and reality is often stretched like a rubber band.

Add this episode to my favorites list! Especially David Strathairn and Elena Evangelo! Too bad she had to go - she's a hotty... I think there was a bizarre Monk connection there. So sad! Anyone else think so?

Overall, one of the more "perfect" Monk episodes to date. All my favorite Monk ingredients were present on this one. Monk needs more villains like this. A true battle of wits that left me laughing - and crying for poor Linda... Forgive me but I always like the way he tries to worm out of paying his help. Is that wrong? Looking forward to the eventual DVD!

Did anyone else notice that when the houskeeper walked into the room and found Linda dead, the TV said "another win for Patrick Closter"?

Also, I loved Julie in this episode. Her chess game in the park, and flirting with the chessmaster at the tournament, were just fantastic.

Great overall eppy. Definitely one of the best.

OK on that point. Great episode but lots of things to quibble over, suspend disbelief.

=======================



Here I made the same criticism, but we are wrong. Too quick to find fault. We don't know that the whole plot hinged on Monk deciding to use the business card handed out in the hardware store to call the murderous handyman. Most likely the handyman would have paid a visit on Monk later that night or the next day if he didn't hear from Monk. And even if Monk called in another handyman, I'm sure the murderer would have subdued or killed Monk as a last resort and ransacked the house.

======================

Is there a spell checker on this message board set-up?

I also watched the writer`s commentary. Joe Toplyn seems very proud of this episode, comparing it to Columbo. It would be wonderful, if Monk, like Columbo, was on for two hours each episode. Monk only has 40 something minutes to pull off a show.

I also think it would be wonderful, if after each episode, the writer would read the reviews, come on line, and answer each question. Maybe, the writer`s could explain things in a way that would explain these so called "plot holes."

It would be nice to get into their head`s, to see where they are coming from.

I can swallow alot of "plot holes" or "logic gaps" if they're one, at the least, organic to the story, and two, entertaining. For example, hubby and I recently saw THE BRAVE ONE with Jodie Foster. Half-way through the story imploded and by the time we got to the end, it just went over the top in what we (the audience) was expected to believe. And then you have a great thriller like RED EYE which, again, totally implausible, but was told with such verve and authority that you turn a blind eye to the logic gaps.

WHEW! I'm so relieved to see that "Monk" is back to normal! After last week's episode (Buys a House) I was seriously worried about the future of my favorite show, but I thoroughly enjoyed the "Genius" episode!

My favorite moments:

Randy telling the captain to put down that coffee cup because he'll have to clean up the mess when he drops it, then the captain gets that phone call and smashes the cup against the window!
Randy saying they "Can't afford it" was hilarious!

The "We should kiss" seems to be popular and I found it hilarious, although a little surprising!

Loved David Straithburn (Sorry If I have his name wrong). It took me a little while to figure out where I had seen him before. He looked so different than he usually does in movies. He was in "A League of Their Own" (with Bitty Schram, I might add! ). He played Mr. Harvey, the owner, I believe. He's been in a bunch of other movies as well. I really liked him as the Genius.

Adrian telling those women how he was going to do the autopsy on the body and then realizing that the woman had been cremated. Those women's reactions had me ROFL, as well as Adrian's reaction!

Natalie with the check and the money. That was priceless! Not to give anything away, but even though I knew what was going to happen at the end with the autograph, I still found it hilarious!

This was a much better episode and I really needed the laugh. I cannot wait until next week's. That should be pretty good. Natalie as "Miss California Lotto"!

One thing that did "bother me", was that they never really "solved the case". They just said that "Oh yeah, we found the poison" but they never did the "Here's what happened" did they? I knew something was missing!

Andrea

I did notice the TV "sound effects". This was obviously planned. But, did anybody else notice that Monk never used a wipe in this episode or Natalie try to hand him one?!? Was that planned or accidental???

I do love Julie. She was soooo adorable the first couple of seasons. She still is cute. I hope to see more of her. She's the real star of the show.

Disagree. There were too many holes and differences in the show for me to think of this as "one of the best".

Ironically, I just saw "A League of Their Own" on TV the other night. And I still didn't recognize the guy who played the "genius" on Monk. But, he played the "league commissioner" in the movie, not one of the owners.

The main reason that I watched the movie is to see the actors "before they became stars", so to speak. In case anybody forgot, Bitty Schram played right field and had a bad habit of missing her cutoff man. And Tom Hanks yelled at her and made her cry, then he yelled at her again for crying. Classic! She also had the annoying kid, Stillwell Angel. Man, Bitty had a good thing going with Monk and she had to screw it up demanding too much money.

Actors you may not have known that were in "A League of Their Own" were Tea Leoni and Janet Jones (Gretzky's wife). Both played for the Racine Bells (the rival team), but Janet Jones basically got snubbed with just a one scene "facial" role.

I always hated how that movie ended. Geena Davis' character couldn't hang around for about another week to finish out the season and play in the WORLD SERIES?!?!? Then, she shows up at the last minute to play in game 7. Pretty lame, Penny Marshall.

Back to Monk, he solved the case in stages. First, the "poison pawn" was the husband tormenting the wife to drinking and then poisoning the bottle of alcohol. Second, the "castle" was switching the grave headstones of his first wife. I think he explained it both times to the "genius" husband.

Well, I watched the episode and again was disappointed. I don't mind the holes in the logic as much as others do. For me the entire concept of the show is totally illogical so I can easily forgive the writers if they have some things happen that are improbable.

No, for me, it's the mystery itself. First off, this great genuises' brilliant plan is to poison his wife the same way he did his first wife and then leave it to complete luck that the police didn't find the hidden bottle of booze? How is that the perfect crime? Then, the whole thing was obvious to me. I knew what would happen the instant they walked into the funeral parlor, I knew what the "genuis" had done the minute they decided to exhume the first wife. That is what I am finding so disappointing about the show right now. The transparent mysteries and Monk's behavior.

I don't have a problem with Adrian improving, but shouldn't there be some sort of acknowledgement of this improvement by the other characters. Randy, Natalie, Stott. Nobody has seemed to notice when Adrian doesn't want a wipe. Or when he can sit in a house that is being demolished. That lack of acknowledgement to me says that Adrain isn't improving, they are just not being consistent with his quirks. It seems lazy to me.

Okay, the "should we kiss" moment. Brilliant. This was one of the best lines in all of the episodes I have seen. Forget the feasibility. Think about it. Natalie isn't a cop, she isn't a PI. She is Adrian's assistant. How many stake-outs has she been on? So she looks up and the killer is walking towards the car. She panics and says the first thing that pops in her head. Something she has probably seen a thousand times in the movies and on tv. It was perfect. Hilarious.

That's what I'm thinking. The past couple of shows have been laziness by the writers, cast, and film crew. You can say it is Stanley Kamel, but I think it is something more going on with USA Networks (The new Psych episodes have been lame. That new IPS show is crap.)

I don't mind Monk improving. In fact, I would like to see Monk improve. But, I agree the acknowledgment by his friends is missing and it looks inconsistent.

About the "should we kiss", this, to me, was also laziness. There's certain things you don't think about doing with certain people. And Natalie thinking about "making out" with Monk should be on that list. Isn't he suppose to be a germophobe? I think the writers wanted to tease the shippers out there and it just came off stupid. Why do fans of nearly ALL tv shows have the need to pair up the lead male & female characters in some love relationship anyways?!?!?!?

I don't know if I would call it "laziness"...but something is getting lost in translation.

For me, the "kiss" moment was just plain silly, and Natalie's character (whom I freely confess, I don't like very much) with comments like this, she's in mortal danger of being "dumbed down"...IMO, the GENIUS show is an example of where the chemistry (acting) between DS and TS (and yeah, TL had one good moment) elevated a very mediocre eppy...

[b]
My first time seeing the show and I must say it was very entertaining. The most intriguing was the woman who played the scared wife. Very beautiful and great to watch. She was so believable and one couldn't help but to be scared on her behalf. I was sad that she died that soon, I wanted to see more of the games between the husband and wife. Good show.

This was one of the best episodes of Monk in a while. The plot kept us trying to figure out how the killer pulled off the murder. At times, we wondered, could Monk's detective work solve this one? Other aspects of the show were also more interesting than usual. In particular, the victim was very compelling. She brought out Monk's empathetic side over the course of the entire episode. Finally, a victim we could care about. But there was one unbelievable thing in this show - what was a beautiful woman like that doing married to the geezer chess player?

SPLENDID STORY!

Natalie's "should we kiss" remark was simply the writers' attempt to reference a ploy used in hundreds of other TV/movie opposite-sex stakeouts to hide the sleuths' identities when the suspect approached.

But hadn't Monk and Natalie already gone to see the Genius before the stakeout? If so, then the Genius knew perfectly well who they were...no need to hide their identities.

Exactly - therefore the underlying humor in the offbeat statement.

QUOTE (LIMAMA1956 @ Aug 5 2008, 03:28 PM) *
But hadn't Monk and Natalie already gone to see the Genius before the stakeout? If so, then the Genius knew perfectly well who they were...no need to hide their identities.

Exactly - therefore the underlying humor in the offbeat statement.

================

Yes, exactly, again. as I posted before:

It seems that Natalie's one liner "We should Kiss" has inherited the mantle of ambiguous
obscurantism from Kissage.

Comments on it are bascially three:

1. an obvious attempt to excite a certain section of shippers
2. meaningless and incongruent within the context of the scene
3 a crucial symbol of the evolution in the development of a romantic relationship b/w M/N

The devilish playfulness of the writers seems to be still at work.

Kawasakifan

Hindsight is rationality's bed partner. Natalie has been shown a number of times to be rather impulsive and, in my opinion, this was one of those moments in the car when cool headedness flies out the window and hormons go into action with words coming out of her mouth whose origins are perhaps not as groundless or haphazard as some construe them to be.

This was actually the first time I ever watched the show and it certainly didn't disappoint and I especially agree with the observations about the woman who played the wife; she was beyond gorgeous--really quite unreal looking--and I think did an oustanding job of imbuing her character with such genuine life as well as great depth. I felt like I had this whole sense of their history together just through how scared she seemed. I hope we get to see more of her!