Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Un-MW-like behavior from Season 1
USA Network Forums > USA Network Originals > Burn Notice
Trav1s
Warning: I like to watch and re-watch the shows and analyze them to death. For fun. So far, they haven't found a cure. That said...

A couple of observations from season 1 have had my brain itching a bit. I noticed some behavior that seems to run counter to MW's apparent need to maintain a healthy level of paranoia and keep a very low profile. What do you think about these:

1. Michael seemed to be sensitive to keeping his "apartment" location a secret in the pilot, and it seems to make sense that that might be a high priority (think batcave). By mid-season, he seemed almost cavalier about it (for example, you never see him surveilling the place to make sure it's safe to go in) despite the fact that Jan the Czech assassin and Jason Bly the CSS agent found out where he lives (and who -- besides the writers -- knows who else might have found out by now?). Seems like he would be hypercautious to avoid walking into an ambush.

2. Similarly, Michael seemed to have good reason for keeping his name out of circulation in the early episodes when he regularly cautioned clients not to tell anyone about him. In the season finale, he shared his real name and previous occupation with heroin dealers who just might have a beef with him after the over-the-top, in-your-face stunt he pulled in their nightclub. Seems like a Spyology 101 no-no to tell the truth about such things to people with the means (and maybe the motive) to kill you.

My wife and I have fun talking about these types of seeming plot defects and conjecturing the possible explanations. Neither of us can explain these two observations, though.

Your thoughts on these observations? Observations of your own that my wife and I may have missed?

(Please, please, please don't misconstrue this post as a knock on the writers. Burn Notice is a tremendously well-written show. Very clever, with almost no plot holes. In fact, I honestly can't name a better written show.)
coribbean
Yeah, I like to analyze that kind of stuff, too.
Interesting observations. I put that stuff down to the inexperience of the writers, but they are getting better. There are a few things that are inconsistent, like those you pointed out. There are also things that are very un-Florida, but that can be attributed to the fact that the story was originally to have taken place in Newark, NJ, according to Matt Nix, the show's creator, executive producer, head writer, chief cook and bottle washer, etc. in several interviews I have read with him. Perhaps there isn't anyone in the job that I believe is sometimes called "continuity" or whatever.

vestokes
QUOTE (Trav1s @ Jul 16 2008, 12:08 PM) *
Warning: I like to watch and re-watch the shows and analyze them to death. For fun. So far, they haven't found a cure. That said...

A couple of observations from season 1 have had my brain itching a bit. I noticed some behavior that seems to run counter to MW's apparent need to maintain a healthy level of paranoia and keep a very low profile. What do you think about these:

1. Michael seemed to be sensitive to keeping his "apartment" location a secret in the pilot, and it seems to make sense that that might be a high priority (think batcave). By mid-season, he seemed almost cavalier about it (for example, you never see him surveilling the place to make sure it's safe to go in) despite the fact that Jan the Czech assassin and Jason Bly the CSS agent found out where he lives (and who -- besides the writers -- knows who else might have found out by now?). Seems like he would be hypercautious to avoid walking into an ambush.

2. Similarly, Michael seemed to have good reason for keeping his name out of circulation in the early episodes when he regularly cautioned clients not to tell anyone about him. In the season finale, he shared his real name and previous occupation with heroin dealers who just might have a beef with him after the over-the-top, in-your-face stunt he pulled in their nightclub. Seems like a Spyology 101 no-no to tell the truth about such things to people with the means (and maybe the motive) to kill you.

My wife and I have fun talking about these types of seeming plot defects and conjecturing the possible explanations. Neither of us can explain these two observations, though.

Your thoughts on these observations? Observations of your own that my wife and I may have missed?



I like to do it too. It's fun to dissect and it can make the writer's stay sharp.

In your first comment you are actually explaining WHY he became so cavalier. Since Jan "the Czech Assassin", Bly, et al knew where he was lived, it would make since that he would loosen up. I can only think of one person not associated with the previously mentioned people, FBI, and agents working with the people that burned Mike that came to his loft unannounced; that is the Dominican guy in the Hard Bargain epi. Even then Mike answered the door with gun in hand. 

I think in the season finale he was just ticked at everybody. He knew he was getting closer to finding out who burned him and then Sam was kidnapped. Identifying himself to Carmello, the drug trafficker, was a way to let the guy know he was serious. If Carmello did investigate he would know Mike was the REAL deal. Also, why would the drug dealer care about going after Mike? He actually helped him by removing the #1 guy out of the picture.
Trav1s
vestokes

I like your thinking, but it still leaves holes, IMO.

1. The growing pool of people who know where MW lives may make him less sensitive to still more people finding out. It might even make him disinterested in finding another place (thinking, "what's the use? They'll find it, too."). But it wouldn't make him less interested in knowing whether someone is waiting inside to ambush him. Maybe he has a detailed, clever, low-tech surveillance routine that the writers just haven't shared with us yet.

2. Since MW already had the info he wanted from Carmello, I see little to be gained by providing any real info to him. The disappearance of his competition is all Carmello would need to know to be satisfied that MW was the real deal, with or without the real name. As to why he might go after MW, you're right -- he might not have a logical reason. But an illogical reason (for instance, making Carmello look foolish in his own nightclub or having the audacity to smart off to him and drink his champagne) could still leave MW just as dead. Drug dealers have been known to kill people without good reasons. Seems to me that better "tradecraft" protocol would call for anonymity. Although MW did seem to think he would be leaving Miami soon, it still seems a little sloppy to give a real name -- especially when the last name is the same as Madeline's and Nate's.
STARMONKEY
I just like the show.

Bubba_Bridges
Hi Bubba here, ...

QUOTE (STARMONKEY @ Jul 16 2008, 06:30 PM) *
I just like the show.


Cool, everyone likes the show. Welcome to the forum Starmonkey.
PhilippaConnors
Hey there, Trav1s - interesting thoughts and observations! It is fun to analyze/dissect all this stuff - I believe that's because this show is so well-written and well-executed. The fact that it stands up to such scrutiny on our parts is a testament to how tightly-written these scripts really are. smile.gif

As for the keeping the location of the loft under wraps - you know that final scene of the first episode, when he returns to his loft and finds all those surveillance photographs taken of him scattered on the floor along with the "Welcome to Miami" postcard? For me, that scene pretty much led me to conclude that any serious notions Michael may have had about securing his loft were abandoned by him at that point. He mentioned something in the voiceover about how when you're a spook there's nothing worse than finding out you're being tracked by someone you don't know, no matter what precautions you took (something to that effect, at any rate). Thus far all those security breaches have been solely connected to the people behind his burn notice - save for Fiona, of course, haha. I think Michael expects this from these shadowy people and he has been forced to take a defensive position and wait for them to come to him (i.e., rigging the shotgun to the door, sweeping for bugs, etc.). But I don't get the feeling that Michael worries much about these "average/everyday" bad guys that he comes across while working for his clients (although personally I think he's over-confident on this front).

As for his desire to keep things quiet and on the down-low - I've attributed this as being related to the possibility of law enforcement finding out about some of the things that he's been involved with (like the bomb that Fi made and that he handed over to be used to take out the crime gang boss). Yes, that is my attribution, lol. Obviously I've made quite a few inferences along the way, but I really think it's because the scripts are so good and there's so much room for reading between the lines.

As for revealing his name and identity to Carmello - Well, like you, I believe that Michael's decision to identify himself to Carmello was based on emotion rather than logic. I saw Michael as being near a breaking point emotionally, in terms of being able to cope with having had everything taken away from him (his name, his reputation, his spycraft, etc) without just cause or reason, and in that instant with Carmello we see Michael hitting a wall emotionally. He's tired and he's unhappy and he's feeling adrift and he wants to take back his sense of self. I think in his own mind Michael was standing up for himself and clearing his *own* name, if that makes any sense...sort of an "I'm a rebel-with-a-cause, raging against the machine and I will not run from this anymore" kind of thing.
elisetx
QUOTE (PhilippaConnors @ Jul 16 2008, 08:23 PM) *
Hey there, Trav1s - interesting thoughts and observations! It is fun to analyze/dissect all this stuff - I believe that's because this show is so well-written and well-executed. The fact that it stands up to such scrutiny on our parts is a testament to how tightly-written these scripts really are. smile.gif

As for the keeping the location of the loft under wraps - you know that final scene of the first episode, when he returns to his loft and finds all those surveillance photographs taken of him scattered on the floor along with the "Welcome to Miami" postcard? For me, that scene pretty much led me to conclude that any serious notions Michael may have had about securing his loft were abandoned by him at that point. He mentioned something in the voiceover about how when you're a spook there's nothing worse than finding out you're being tracked by someone you don't know, no matter what precautions you took (something to that effect, at any rate). Thus far all those security breaches have been solely connected to the people behind his burn notice - save for Fiona, of course, haha. I think Michael expects this from these shadowy people and he has been forced to take a defensive position and wait for them to come to him (i.e., rigging the shotgun to the door, sweeping for bugs, etc.). But I don't get the feeling that Michael worries much about these "average/everyday" bad guys that he comes across while working for his clients (although personally I think he's over-confident on this front).

As for his desire to keep things quiet and on the down-low - I've attributed this as being related to the possibility of law enforcement finding out about some of the things that he's been involved with (like the bomb that Fi made and that he handed over to be used to take out the crime gang boss). Yes, that is my attribution, lol. Obviously I've made quite a few inferences along the way, but I really think it's because the scripts are so good and there's so much room for reading between the lines.

As for revealing his name and identity to Carmello - Well, like you, I believe that Michael's decision to identify himself to Carmello was based on emotion rather than logic. I saw Michael as being near a breaking point emotionally, in terms of being able to cope with having had everything taken away from him (his name, his reputation, his spycraft, etc) without just cause or reason, and in that instant with Carmello we see Michael hitting a wall emotionally. He's tired and he's unhappy and he's feeling adrift and he wants to take back his sense of self. I think in his own mind Michael was standing up for himself and clearing his *own* name, if that makes any sense...sort of an "I'm a rebel-with-a-cause, raging against the machine and I will not run from this anymore" kind of thing.


Wow...looks like I'm in the wrong thread...I just want MW(JD) to take off his shirt! lol
mjwannabe
QUOTE (STARMONKEY @ Jul 16 2008, 07:30 PM) *
I just like the show.



You know I am going with you on this one. LOL It would be way too easy for me to dissect the show to death but I'm not going to do that. There is always going to be plot holes and continuity errors, etc. but it's just a TV show. There is no movie or TV show that is 100% accurate or plausible so I try not to bog myself down nitpicking things apart. I just sit back and watch the good times roll.
PhilippaConnors
QUOTE (elisetx @ Jul 16 2008, 09:39 PM) *
Wow...looks like I'm in the wrong thread...I just want MW(JD) to take off his shirt! lol


Well, yeah - I want that from Michael/JD, too, dontcha know! I am a multi-faceted viewer of BN. I like to ponder the plight of Michael while admiring his handsome looks and lithe physique. Perhaps I'll someday set up a discussion thread where we can overanalyze Michael's phenomenal upper body. tongue.gif

I sure hope there's some gratuitous shirtless scenes in tonight's episode. *ponders thoughtfully*
laugh.gif
elisetx
QUOTE (PhilippaConnors @ Jul 17 2008, 08:50 AM) *
Well, yeah - I want that from Michael/JD, too, dontcha know! I am a multi-faceted viewer of BN. I like to ponder the plight of Michael while admiring his handsome looks and lithe physique. Perhaps I'll someday set up a discussion thread where we can overanalyze Michael's phenomenal upper body. tongue.gif

I sure hope there's some gratuitous shirtless scenes in tonight's episode. *ponders thoughtfully*
laugh.gif


OK sister....I'm so there!
PhilippaConnors
QUOTE (elisetx @ Jul 17 2008, 02:46 PM) *
OK sister....I'm so there!


Alrighty then - so everyone be on the lookout for a thread entitled, "shirtless and heroic - an exposition on the objectification of hot spies" (which I will begin just as soon as Michael shows off his upper body in season 2, lol!)

tongue.gif
vestokes
QUOTE (Trav1s @ Jul 16 2008, 03:55 PM) *
vestokes

I like your thinking, but it still leaves holes, IMO.

1. The growing pool of people who know where MW lives may make him less sensitive to still more people finding out. It might even make him disinterested in finding another place (thinking, "what's the use? They'll find it, too."). But it wouldn't make him less interested in knowing whether someone is waiting inside to ambush him. Maybe he has a detailed, clever, low-tech surveillance routine that the writers just haven't shared with us yet.

2. Since MW already had the info he wanted from Carmello, I see little to be gained by providing any real info to him. The disappearance of his competition is all Carmello would need to know to be satisfied that MW was the real deal, with or without the real name. As to why he might go after MW, you're right -- he might not have a logical reason. But an illogical reason (for instance, making Carmello look foolish in his own nightclub or having the audacity to smart off to him and drink his champagne) could still leave MW just as dead. Drug dealers have been known to kill people without good reasons. Seems to me that better "tradecraft" protocol would call for anonymity. Although MW did seem to think he would be leaving Miami soon, it still seems a little sloppy to give a real name -- especially when the last name is the same as Madeline's and Nate's.


Well he actually told Carmello his name BEFORE he got the info from him. Remember Carmello called him later after the night club scene. 

Also, I haven't noticed him not being cautious. We don't really see every move he makes when coming and going to his place. I do recall him putting powder on the floor to determine if someone had been at his place and him setting up Bly by filming him in his loft. So, I'd think he still has those cameras rolling to see if anyone has been there. 
vestokes
QUOTE (PhilippaConnors @ Jul 16 2008, 06:23 PM) *
Hey there, Trav1s - interesting thoughts and observations! It is fun to analyze/dissect all this stuff - I believe that's because this show is so well-written and well-executed. The fact that it stands up to such scrutiny on our parts is a testament to how tightly-written these scripts really are. smile.gif

As for the keeping the location of the loft under wraps - you know that final scene of the first episode, when he returns to his loft and finds all those surveillance photographs taken of him scattered on the floor along with the "Welcome to Miami" postcard? For me, that scene pretty much led me to conclude that any serious notions Michael may have had about securing his loft were abandoned by him at that point. He mentioned something in the voiceover about how when you're a spook there's nothing worse than finding out you're being tracked by someone you don't know, no matter what precautions you took (something to that effect, at any rate). Thus far all those security breaches have been solely connected to the people behind his burn notice - save for Fiona, of course, haha. I think Michael expects this from these shadowy people and he has been forced to take a defensive position and wait for them to come to him (i.e., rigging the shotgun to the door, sweeping for bugs, etc.). But I don't get the feeling that Michael worries much about these "average/everyday" bad guys that he comes across while working for his clients (although personally I think he's over-confident on this front).

As for his desire to keep things quiet and on the down-low - I've attributed this as being related to the possibility of law enforcement finding out about some of the things that he's been involved with (like the bomb that Fi made and that he handed over to be used to take out the crime gang boss). Yes, that is my attribution, lol. Obviously I've made quite a few inferences along the way, but I really think it's because the scripts are so good and there's so much room for reading between the lines.

As for revealing his name and identity to Carmello - Well, like you, I believe that Michael's decision to identify himself to Carmello was based on emotion rather than logic. I saw Michael as being near a breaking point emotionally, in terms of being able to cope with having had everything taken away from him (his name, his reputation, his spycraft, etc) without just cause or reason, and in that instant with Carmello we see Michael hitting a wall emotionally. He's tired and he's unhappy and he's feeling adrift and he wants to take back his sense of self. I think in his own mind Michael was standing up for himself and clearing his *own* name, if that makes any sense...sort of an "I'm a rebel-with-a-cause, raging against the machine and I will not run from this anymore" kind of thing.



YES!!! I just love this kind of stuff. That's another point I meant to make. The first break did indeed set the tone. Also, it'd get sort of old to have him driving around the block 50 times before going to his loft. LOL!!!
vestokes
Also, I think the average Joe Smoe bad guy on the street wouldn't expect an unassuming guy like Mikey to be able to get the drop on them. That's why he has been so successful. Who'd have thought someone would go to the lengths he's done on his cases. They are so over and beyond the capability of the average drug dealer/mobster/street thug that they don't know what hit them when it's over. I'd tell you to ask Concha but I think she's in the stratosphere about now.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.