I CANNOT TAKE ONE MORE MINUTE OF Michael Westin's MOTHER! I know...I know...he needs to be able to show his soft, protective side by having a meddling, WHINY, BUSYBODY of a mother, but puh-LEASE!!! Somebody "take her out"!! and put her out of my misery!

Sharon Gless has NEVER had a less appealing personality on-screen and the WHINE makes me fast-forward through any scene with her in it and I might miss something important!

I'm STUCK!

I'm wondering why she didn't worry about him when the dad was using him as a punching bag, and he was too young to defend himself.

I haven't liked the Madeline character from the time it was revealed that the dad was abusive, and instead of protecting her sons, she stayed to "keep the family together". (This is not a reflection on Sharon Gless.)

Newbie perspective:

A LOVE SG in just about anything (and you think she's whiny here, stay away from Nip Tuck, she'll annoy the HE!! out of you!!!!--at least here, it's for a cause, not to mention she looks a HE!! of a lot better )

It's another side to Michael....I mean, how many espionage/cop programs have you seen where the "head" spy says "I have to go see my mother".....with due respect, even Donofrio and Moreno on CI can't hold a candle to these two!!!

Kinda relates to the other two, but it shows a cross over/connection from the "spy-world" to "real life"....and how real life can often be just as if not more screwy.....a la the Justice League (as deemed in another thread -- MW Fi & Sam) have got people shooting trying to kill them, and she's worried about a COFFEE MAKER?!?!?!?!?!?


Just my 2 cents....



KA23

LOVE the relationship between Mikey and him mom!! Sharon Gless is the PERFECT choice for the character. I love how she can do anything with a ciggy hanging out of her mouth...esp dealing with a shotgun! Keep her!!

Just one persons opinion.

I love the dynamic between Michael and his mother. I do agree with WestenWinch about how she didn't do anything to help her boys growing up. The character is seriously flawed but of course that is the point, that's what causes the tension between her and Michael. Sharon Gless does a fabulous job portraying the character.

I like her character, although I too agree with WestenWinch about not protecting Michael from his abusive father. That part I'm not too keen on, but she provides so much tension between Michael and herself and I enjoy that. I do like the dynamic of their relationship, and I love Sharon Gless.

I liked Sharon Gless, Mike's mother, in Cagney and Lacy. However, her character in BN is grating and I am hoping she becomes less and less involved in the series. I agree someone put her out of my misery!

I personally love her in the show and I thing SG and JD have amazing cheistry. SG plays the character wonderfully

Oh man, she's a riot! I want her to stay!

I totally agree. It's one of my favorite parts of the show; it's a big part of what makes this show unique.

Leave Madeline alone. Doesn't she already have enough problems????????????????

Yes she does. LOL.

I don't get this complaint at all -- of course Madeline's extra nutty in this episode because she has just learned that her son's life being in danger (and sometimes her own) will be a regular occurrence because her son is a spy/commando guy.

I don't get the complaints about Jimmy either. He's a computer guy who isn't used to danger. He saw two people murdered and his wife's and daughter's lives are at stake. The writers got comic relief out of two clients last season (Thomas McKee and Nick the surfer), but they didn't do it in every episode, and the season was specatacular.

I'm thinking that these strong reactions may have more to do with the personal issues of the people having them. Nothing wrong with that -- we all have them. I'm just sayin'.

Madeline is obviously flawed, maybe even more than most mom's, but her character is part of what makes Michael what he is. Michael Westen's family could have been left entirely out of the storyline, but he is, afterall, a burned spy who's been thrust back into his hometown. It's only natural that his family would come into play in his present situation. The presence of Madeline and Nate, plus information given about their dad, only enriches the storyline, IMO. Of course, they could have chosen a Leave it to Beaver June Cleaver clone complete with pearl necklaces and social graces for Michael's mom, but how interesting would that be???? Sharon Gless brings humor, emotion, and complexity to her role in an amazing manner. She's been nominated in the Emmy pre-selection process for Best Supporting Actress for her role in Burn Notice. If she's annoying you, she's doing her job!! And she does it with outstanding talent!!!

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE,IF FI LEFT THE SERIES IT WOULD BE JUST ANOTHER JAMES BOND IMITATION.

Are you kidding??
I LOVE the interactions between Michael and his mom! I can totally relate. Probably one of my favorites scenes from season 1 is Michael's reaction when he realizes that Madeline slept with Virgil. Still cracks me up every time I see it.

There's a lot to love about this show and Madeline is one of those things that I love. The character provides an opportunity for Michael to show his more human side whenever he interacts with her. She is a necessary part of the show. She allows Michael to have depth. Otherwise, it would be just another shoot-em-up type spy show.

Sorry but life isn't all laughs and giggles. He became a spy for a reason. He had awful parents and he was abused by one of them. He has a mother that believed she had to keep her family together, in spite of her and the kids getting smacked around. Mike is like her in that regard. He has a sense of responsibility to family and friends. He's loyal and reliable. He wants to beat up the bully and protect the innocent. He took on this role in their family. As an adult he is coming to terms with his resentment toward his mother by trying to understand why she stayed. Regardless of how you feel about Madeline, she's his mom and there's no bond greater. He will continue to run over to help her when she whines and complains and will occasionally avoid her phone call. The same with his wastrel brother. You can't choose your family. 

Exactly!!!

Madeline is absolutely integral to the plot and premise of BN!! Yes, she is annoying, but that's the point! Part of the basic tenet of the show is what makes a spy a spy. And spies don't come from "Leave it to Beaver" homes. They come from crummy, dysfunctional places like the Westen homestead. At least that's what Michael said (I've paraphrased) in a voiceover from season one. Sorry, I don't recall the episode. Also, part of the horror (for Michael) of being burned, is that he is stuck in Miami, with his mother, until he can get his burn notice remedied. Miami probably wouldn't be such an unpleasant place if he had a loving, perfect mom with plenty of cash, would it?

BTW, I loved the whole bit in the first episode of S2 about the coffee pot. And she didn't even realize how much danger she really was in, did she? Madeline is a nut, through and through. And Sharon Gless portrays her with great aplomb!

BN belongs to the squad drama genre. It's not solely dependent on one character. It's successful because of the interaction of several richly written characters. Madeline is not simply a device that could be replaced by another character, she's an integral facet who reflects back onto the other characters.

peace.

Very well said. Wish I'd read your reply before I'd typed my own. Would've saved me some trouble. ;-)

No. I think your response was spot on. You are so right about the "Leave it the Beaver" comment. I think that's what is so great to me about HD. You get to see all the flaws. The chipped paint, pimples on the face, and the burned grass. So, life-like. I hope they continue along this track. I'd hate to see the "what made him a spy" angle disappear. With a Mom like his, the only way he can avoid this would be to leave Miami again or kill her. 

Yeah, I read an interview with Nix and he said that the "what made him a spy" angle was something that they were going to go into this season with some depth. I think the psychological thing is interesting.

Yes. This is one of the few times I've ever wanted to know what was happening in the character's personal life. Some shows like L&O throw bits of the characters life at us and I find it distracting from the story. Why this guy became a spy is an insight that we rarely get in these kind of programs. The fact that James Bond, in real life, isn't rich blew my mind. So, this bit of realism helps to push the story along too. I don't think I will ever be that patriotic that I'd risk family, friends, as well as, my own life for country. That's a bit too much for me; mainly because my family life wasn't as tragic as his.

I think she adds another side to michael that's kind of important as to why he does the work, my favorite scene between the two was towards the end of season one when they were discussing trust and he said "and when would I have learned to do that" it sharpens the dynamics of the relationship a great deal in my opinion. then of course the talk they had on the first 2nd season show that despite his feelings he does care about her despite the chasm between them.

I also really enjoy Michael's interactions with his brother Nate. Whether you've had a good or bad childhood, your adult relationship with your siblings is always complicated by the rivalry you've experienced before. Mom always liked you best....you got the Charger. I hope there will be some of that Michael/Nate stuff in the season to come. You throw Madeline into the mix, and you've got some laughs for certain!

Well said, melybelle. The sibling rivalry on BN is very realistic. Deep down they care for each other, but there's always going to be "issues."

I'm sure Sharon Gless is a fine actress and for that reason she DESERVES a character who isn't a pathetic wreck. Certainly having a clunky denver boot on the main character got old... oh... after the 2nd episode it was used. The character is one dimensional. She never grows or changes, and the relationship hasn't grown or changed. Yes, Yes, she's too pathetic too change. That may be realistic but when ALL of the other characters are complex and faceted, she really sticks out. She's used as some sort of comic relief/character torture combo, which would be funny if this were King Of South Beach, or Everybody Loves Michael Westin, but its not.

I can't help but think of in Wiseguy when the main characters mom was brought into the investigation, she was actually able to help her son with his job and be an asset.
I'm not suggesting that Mike's mom turn into a blazing engine of utility, but it would be nice if she were something other than an albatross.

Well, I’m in the “Michael’s mom is important to the plot” camp. I think Sharon Gless is doing a great job in the role of Madeline. Even though there haven't been many scenes between Michael and his mom, I have a pretty good sense of his emotional entanglement with her. I'm impressed at how well these two actors work off one another and I want to know more about their dynamic and how this factored into how Michael became the person he is.

As for Madeline - she's manipulative, yes. Whiny and clingy, yes. Is this crafty and cunning on her part, or is she really just wimpy and pathetic and helpless? I think it's the former - she’s the covert operative working within her own family unit, you know? She knows how to cultivate "key assets" and does what it takes to get whatever it is she needs out of a given situation. She's not a bad person and in fact exhibits loyalty and a certain fearlessness at times. She has a defined sense of right and wrong, as is evidenced in “Identity” (ep.2, in which she expresses her outrage over her neighbor/friend having been beaten up and robbed of her life savings and she wants Michael to take action against this injustice). Actually, the first scene with Michael and his mom in that episode is my favorite, for a couple of reasons:

1. When Michael returns to his mom’s house after trying to track down the surveillance team, Madeline asks what happened - and he strides right past her and without missing a beat casually remarks, “Yeah...I think there’s a fire down the road and um, the smoke had drifted.” And right as he’s saying this, you can see Madeline behind him, eyeballing him up and down with a look on her face that basically is like, Deep-down-inside-I-know-what-is-going-on-with-my-son, but-I-am-not-going-to-confront-it-head-on. And when the fire truck sirens are blaring through the neighborhood, that look on Madeline's face says to me that she's a person of keen intellect and stealth-like observation - and that she is good at “going to ground” with what she observes. So if she doesn't want something to surface it *never* will. I thought she seemed smart and crafty, and it left me feeling like Michael definitely has a part of her in his own makeup.

2. I loved how Madeline stood there in her kitchen and basically worked Michael over in order to recruit him to work for *her* (on behalf of her friend in need). Michael, for his part, knew he was being worked over, but he needed to develop his mom as a key asset (what did she know about the men who had visited her all those months earlier?). So there the two of them stood, side by side in that kitchen, brokering a deal in which he’d help her friend if she’d provide “intel” on those men who had visited her months earlier (and bugged her house). It was like watching two seasoned covert operatives pushing every button the other one knew would get them what they wanted respectively! I thought it was fascinating.

Anyway, there's my take on it ...sorry for the tome, guys. ;-)

And it gives Matt Nix and the writers some great opportunities for lines, like in episode 1 of S2: "But it doesn't explain why you never wrote," after Michael points out that he didn't visit Madeline in those missing years in order to protect her. LMAO!!
Well said, Phillipa!
(I'm a big fan of Groundhog Day, too!)

Are you a member of the American Cancer Society? I understand the ACS would like to have on-screen smoking controlled:

"The ACS is pursuing various avenues to help reduce tobacco use in films. ACS has met with entertainment industry leaders including Jack Valenti, president and CEO of the Motion Picture Association of America, various movie studios, and representatives of the Screen Actors Guild, the Directors Guild, and the Screenwriters Association."

You have to remember: Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. And when there's a Burn Notice there's evident of smoke or fire. Beit gun fire or cigarette smoke, it's all part to the successful series called Burn Notice.

Hmmm...interesting, M8825. Never considered the emblematic symbolism of Madeline's cigarettes...but yeah, I'd say that works!

I thought Michael's body language in that scene said it all - it was kinda pitiful because he looked so tired and he just couldn't keep up with her shenanigans, and yet it was funny at the same time. I also liked that moment when he comes through the front door and she's standing there in the shadows with the shotgun locked and loaded. *LOL* And I love how Michael says, "mom, put the shotgun down." Man, such great acting from both JD and Sharon Gless!

[glad to meet another Groundhog Day fan, btw - it's one of my favorite movies of all time!]

As long as she doesn't turn into the Marlboro woman...hate to see her get lung cancer over the frikin' retakes!

Though I doubt the "second hand' (would that be her left or right) would be any good for her either.....

KA23

Yeah, one of Sharon Gless's interviews (on the BN website) referred to the chainsmoking and how she tends to portray those type of characters. That is worrisome. Glad it's not me!

I'm waiting for Mikey to come to his mom's place, with fire extinguisher at hand, bust in the door, and say, "Mom, I'm getting tired of you callin' me for these minor emergencies. Here, put out your own fire - I'm working on my Burn Notice!"

They could use dry ice if they had to, or wanted to, create more smoke. There are other tricks they could try also.

To all those replying to my original note about (is it "Madelaine") Michael's mother:
Thank you!
I did get some great responses which provoked some thoughts to chew on.
I wouldn't really have ANY problem with Sharon Gless's character if she would just TONE IT DOWN a little. The actual high-pitched delivery of some of her whines would make fingernails on a chalkboard seem soft and lilting.

But I will give you this: her character is necessary for all the aforementioned reasons most of you stated. I like the additional dimension it gives Michael Westen's character. I really feel for the guy and the push-pull of the relationship. In fact, I like him much more because he's a freakin' saint when it comes to family obligations.

We're one episode into the new season and I'm hoping they rebroadcast the pilot; it's the only episode I don't have.

Go Burn Notice! Best show on TV!
filmboomer
http://forums.usanetwork.com/style_emotico...lt/rolleyes.gif

In one of the interviews Sharon said her husband laughed and joked, "How lucky are you, someone is paying you to smoke!" Guess she already had the habit.

i dont mind the character of Mike's mom. SG plays it marvelously
BUT, i can see how her ranting every epi "there are men with guns out there Michael!" can get a bit annoying. like, get over it woman! you should be used to it by now! LOOL
eh
otherwise, she and mike are fun/funny
she's grown on me.
yay BN!!!
one more hour!
i cant believe i made it so long without BN!
yaaaay

I have to agree, Her story is getting old fast
how many times do we have to hear
Micheal what are you doing?
Micheal my toaster is broken!
Micheal you never talk to me..

ohhh...gotcha...it's the actual tone of voice that's getting to you. I hear you loud and clear. I LOVE my nephew, but sometimes, just sometimes, I have to walk out of the room, he uses a certain pitch. I'm sure all the dogs on the block are cowering and have their paws over their ears, lol.
I had to break down and buy the dvd series of the whole season one. I'd missed a couple of episodes and wanted to watch all of 'em over again. It's worth it for me (no DVR). Maybe USA will re-run S1 again towards the end of this season as a build up to the final episode of S2??

I just wish Micheal would tell her to "STOP SMOKING!!" or make some deal with her so she stops smoking.

I don't see a rivalry from Mike's perspective. It's more that Nate thinks Mike had such an easy ride by getting all the attention when in reality Mike deflected all the negative attention away from Nate. 

Do you recall Nate finding the notes their Dad kept of Mike's arrests (Family Business epi). He mentioned Mike was a bigger screw-up then he on paper because of all the cars Mike had stolen. Mike kindly reminded Nate that his Dad was never around and if Nate ever wondered how they got to the store to get groceries.

 Nate is the youngest and I know from experience that they are protected from the nasty things that are all around them. I like that we get insights to their family through Nate's discoveries. This is an excellent writing device. GREAT writing people.  It also gave Nate a vital role in the show. I actually hated his character in the beginning. 

I just LOVE the way you phrase things to get right to the heart of the matter. YES!!! Madeline is the covert operative within her family unit. This is SO true. You can see that Mike and his Mom are SO alike. He learned to NOT trust and be observant and suspicious of motives from her.
 
Excellent analysis, PhilippaConnor.  

The imagery!!!! 

I'd completely forgotten about that scene with Nate - that was a phenomenal scene and a classic example of how tightly written these scripts are on BN. I mean, think about how short an amount of time Nate was onscreen in that moment and how much information was revealed to us. It was a matter of just a couple of sentences, but they were a revelation to us viewers. We got to see how Nate views Michael, with insecurity and petulance. We got to know what Michael's childhood was like - trying to be the caretaker and provider and having to go around the law to do the honorable thing (stealing cars in order to get groceries). I love how Madeline sort of stays in the background in that scene - I'll have to go back and re-watch it because I can't quite remember, but I seem to recall that she was looking sideways at Michael with stealth-like intelligence and wariness. For me it provided a keen glimpse into why Michael became the person he is today. All in a couple of sentences! Now *that's* a tightly written script, people! Very impressive stuff.

[Also, I once again must point out the exemplary acting - no matter how terrific these scripts are, they wouldn't have the level of power and poignance without these amazing actors.]

I agree with the OP, I find her character extremely annoying, but I was never a SG fan to begin with. Frankly, I wouldn't miss her character if she "relocated." Smaller doses would be okay.

I read on another site how the interaction with his neurotic mother is supposed to show his "tender" side. Too bad they couldn't show that in a less annoying way with a less annoying actress. Her character, IMO, does a disservice to mothers. Fortunately, as a supporting character, her screen time will be limited. However, vestokes pointed out that the plan is explore his relationship with his mother more this season. Bummer.

On the show, In Plain Sight, Leslie Ann Warren plays a slightly neurotic (maybe neurotic isn't the right word--but the woman's got issues) mother to the main character (who also has issues), but Leslie Ann Warren is endearingly annoying in her desperation. With Leslie Ann Warren, you want her to get help. With Sharon Gless, you just want her to get outta town.

I actually don't like IPS. It appears to be trying too hard. The main character played by McCormack is boring. Also, her hair color should be darkened a bit. It's too harsh. I do LOVE her boyfriend and so far he's the only reason I've found to watch the show. BTW, I find Leslie Ann Warren's character to be rather stupid and that is extremely annoying to me.