Where is the Monk we all want to find peace of mind and happiness?

In a previous thread many posters pointed out that Monk is not allergic to nor does he avoid eating meat but in Mr. Goldberg's newest book one poster mentioned that Monk must be on medication that turns him into "The Monk" to eat German sausage.

Somehow these two aspects of Monk seem to present him with a polarizing, unsolveable dilemma that inhibits any form of recovery.

Instantaneous normalcy brought on by medication numbs his phobias, allows him to eat what he might not usually eat in his current state yet robs him of his detective prowess. Is this the Monk we want? On the other hand, the Monk not on medication is haunted by various fears and anxieties that prevent him from leading a life devoid of paranoid behavior. Is this the Monk we also wish for as well?

What is the answer? I wonder if it might lie somewhere between these two realities - a twilight zone so to speak that will allow him to enjoy the fruits of both identities?

Monk, as he is on the show, is the real Monk.

We, as people in the modern world, put far too much emphasis on our comfort.

Back in the day we had all these questions - Who are we, why are we here, where are we going - and why?

But there were no answers from personal experience - and so we had the church who told us these things - with thier most convincing arguments.

And eventually we fell away from the church and leaned toward science for answers - after all, it out produced religion for answers and it produced all this innovation as a byproduct.

So while we didnt have these answers to these really big questions, we now had a progressive answer generating machine working in that direction and the closer we got the more comfortable our lives would become.

So, although it shouldnt be possible, we put up our feet and ran with it.

My life as a user of medication is much easier with my medication but I am acutely aware that without it I dont fit in to society - at all.

Now, I'm sure that as a human being in my natural habitat (hard to say what that is. Humans in our natural habitat are hard to come by any more) my personality 'disfunction' would result in defining me to that culture in a very basic role of some kind - Someone who gets outraged and morally offended like I do would make an eager warrior in a tribal society, although I'm told that someone with epilepsy as young as I had it whould have been raised as a seer or shaman...

But I digress.

The unmedicated me is the real me.

And he's pretty well pissed not only at the state of the world today, his own inaction on it's behalf and at every 'indignity' he's ever wanted to right but had to bite his tongue and sit on his hands through instead.

But the world isnt like that any more. My genetics had no idea we were entering a wave of butt-surfing and rampant indignity. So I just wasnt built for 'today'.

And neither was Monk.

Assuming for the moment that he was just born with his tendancies, as his mother was, and it's not solely learned behavior, Monk's role in a wild cutlure would have been as a look-out, a tracker, a scout... He'd have a million uses. And he had pretty well worked himself in to that kind of a position with the police force before Trudy died.

And, perhaps being raised in nature would have subdued and defeated many of Monk's phobias from the get-go. Or cut them off before they could develop.

In short, happy balance is a wonderful fairy tale like ending - and a great place to leave a TV show like Monk but really, it's a byproduct of the modern world. Struggle produces accomplishment. And Monk has what I call a creative imbalance. He's not 'well' but so productive that he's making headway - and that's probably a lot closer to the natural human state of being than we are...

Dont'cha think?

-M

enjoy the fruits...hope they're not kiwis....sorry, I had to say that...

I guess the real Monk is they both, phobic Monk and The Monk. They both are great, but as we just get to see The Monk under his medications, we can supppose while this is not a 'natural' behaviour, the OCD Monk is the real one. He is so perfect, though so imperfect and complex...
I guess seeing his two identities fighting for space it will be great, it could make a hell of an episode! but at the end, our beloved Monk should come back and take charge of his own. I cannot handle The Monk so long....

Mi

Excuse me - I was so interested in what you were saying I forgot to post my response. (giggles - silly me)

What I am thinking is that you are right about people finding their niches -compensating for our disabilities ( which by the way I believe we all have - some of us admit to them some of us don't) is the key to survival. I love the thought of you as a shaman apprentice or Monk as a tracker. I believe that I would have been perceived very differently in another time. More of that another day.

One of the things I dislike most about western society today is how we are trying to homogenize everyone. Same life, same look, same goals, same standards - its just not possible and... it leaves out so many people who can't or won't fit. And honestly - its a bad idea. Its a terrible goal to impose on everyone.

Back to Monk....
I have this real urge to make everything balanced - it makes MY life more comfortable. Its like trying to achieve cosmic symmetry - all the time.

So I keep wishing that Monk's medication could be reduced, so that there would be a happy balance of genius and ability to cope in this world. We all want to cry for the real Monk sometimes. It is just so painful to watch. I just HATE that Agent who belittles Monk in the Really Really Dead Guy episode.

Viva the creative imbalance. Most true geniuses and contributors to our world have had it.

Yes, in the real world Monk would probably have just the right amount of medication. He could function as a cop, his OCD would be in control, he would be considered almost normal, if there is such a thing. For the purpose of the show, we really don`t want him on meds. I do think the books and the show go in such different directions sometimes. As Mandeville said, the real Monk is the one On TV.

As for the Agent who belittled Monk, well, he looked like a fool after Monk got through with him. I find great satisfaction when M shows up those who make fun of him.

I agree. On the show, we don't want Monk on Meds. He wouldn't be Monk then. The books and the show so in different directions, and that isn't always a bad thing.

I also love seeing Monk showing up the people who belittle and make fun of him. The agent did look like a fool when Monk was finished with him and I thought that was great. I hate seeing him belittled, but he ALWAYS gets revenge and comes out on top.

Monkliness is next to insanity.

To monk, or not to monk, that is the question:
whether it is nobler in the mind to dust to coffee table or to vacuum first;
But ay, there's the rub: The vacuum needs a new bag,
and it'll take all day to sterilize it properly.

Monk and meds -- it's an interesting topic for discussion.

I think the one aspect of this discussion that has been ignored thus far is that Monk, although compellingly real to many of us, is indeed



And as such, one rule of thumb I've come across (for writers) is that it's not enough to put your protagonist up a tree, you need to throw rocks at him while he's trying to figure out how to get down.

The thing that makes Monk interesting is his unique collection of gifts and curses. It is what has put him up in that tree. That's why every time he seems to find a way out of that tree (he's getting better, he's ready to 'move on', he's on the path to Trudy's killer, he's on medication) it backfires and makes it worse. A corollary to the tree rule might be that if you're going to hand your protagonist a ladder, you'd better grease it first.

I like the book's treatment of "The Monk." I like the fact that dioxynl has allowed Monk to experience some things that he has never been able to before (like airplane travel and sausage), and I think the visual image of Monk on the plane to Germany in the last book has been the funniest thing yet. But if it were not for the fact that the drug has such negative side effects that lead to such embarrassing (albeit humorous) moments, would he not keep taking the drug, allowing him to descend from that tree and stop being the Monk that we love?

But Monk is more than just an interesting protagonist to us. He is a beloved friend whom we desperately want to do well. We want him to recover -- to find happiness again. But if he ever gets out of that tree, that will probably be the time when we need to say goodbye.

So as far as Monk goes -- medication needs to be a greased ladder, preferably one leading into a giant vat of milk.

But as far as real people go, when we feel like we are stuck in a tree and people are throwing rocks at us, it is little comfort to know that we might be someone's interesting protagonist. We don't live for someone else's entertainment, and learning to embrace our gifts and curses while finding ways to balance our life is not a bad thing.

I agree with Manville that the Monk on TV is the real Monk. The Monk in the books on medication is more over the top...I find it more humorous when he is on meds...reminds me of Mr Monk gets drunk. I consider overall that Monk is human..he has feelings, wants and desires like everyone else. He is trying to deal with all his phobias and lead a "normal" life for him. I think we all desire that type of life. What we consider normal is normal for him...with or without his meds!

You have quite a way with words. I am going to try and remember the up the tree/throwing rocks rule and its corollary. Well put, B-gal.

Every time I see the titloe Where is the real Monk I always want to say outloud "I AM MONK! ... And sometimes Sparticus!"

-M

LOL...I am Monk and maybe Rachel Ray...only in my dreams!

I'm waffling over the meds/no meds thing with the character of Monk. I saw my mother end up in the hospital over and over while I was growing up and to this day, she has a shelf full of meds. You reach a point where they're guessing and it feels like you're a lab rat, with doctors experimenting on you with different drugs. They'd try one thing, it would send her bouncing off the walls, she'd end up in the hospital for weeks, and they'd send her home....with new meds. Years later, they threw my sister into the same meat grinder. My brother rejects the doctor's diagnosis (schizophrenia) and refuses therapy, hospitalization, or meds of any kind.

Growing up, I just wanted to get out of the house and clear my head. From the time my parents divorced, which was when I was ten, I started walking all over the place. My mother's family, when I finally found them again in 2001, tells me they remember me as the one who was walking from town to town and that that is probably why I'm not in the same boat as my sister and brother. I walked from Niles to Warren, from Warren to Youngstown, from Youngstown to Howland, from Howland to Niles, on and on and on. It's that sense of being experimented on with different medications--I'd come home and there'd be an entirely different person standing there--sometimes it was Jekyll, more often it was Hyde.

I hated the character of "The Monk." Monk should be on some kind of mild medication but it's the process itself--do they get it right the first time or does he have to go through the hit or miss process?

I'm not a scientologist by far and I'm not anti-psychology, but going to any one of those shrinks can be like shooting craps. Sometimes it's sevens. Sometimes it's snake-eyes. Sometimes the dice bounce off the curb and roll into a sewer grate. The process itself can do more damage, and it's grueling--perhaps even more to watch than to be the person going through it.

Yes, Monk is fiction. Sadly enough, many people are a lot worse than Monk. I know people from my church, and others, who can no longer leave thier homes due to breakdowns. I have taken several women into my own home to help them. Getting the correct medication is sometimes difficult. Sometimes, even when they do get some helpful meds., it is still an up hill battle. I always pray, these good people will find ways, as you stated, to balance thier lives.

Your metaphorical laden reply is quite elegant. worthy perhaps for a topic more relevant than examining the "reality" of a fictional character.

Much of what you are saying seems to be from the point of view of the writer but my question really is from the point of view of the reader how should the reader digest what is being presented both on the screen and on the written page?

Yes, Monk is a fictional creation but he has taken on a virtual reality fans not only love but also pity as well. The fact that the writers have him seeing a therapist, implies that he knows something is wrong and wants professional help.

In many respects, he seems to see his gifts as a double edge sword that are also his curses and is willing to have a lid put on them, even if that means he loses his luster as a great dedective and so if his getting out of the tree may mean the demise of the show, Monk I feel does want to get down.

Rest to sure, though the overriding theme of the series seems to be a snail pace movement towards release, the writers, knowing full well the entertainment value of the figure they have fashioned will prolong whatever ails him before having him slide down the ladder into that vat of milk.

When I first needed real help a few years ago, I went on state sponsored insurance because I had none of my own. First they sent me to a crisis counselor named Christy wha was THE BEST person I could have ever been sent to. When they transferred me from there they sent me to a guy who seemed to be all about clocking in an hour and moving on. He didnt even seem experienced at the whole therapy thing.

Halfway through my sessions with him they pulled him from the program and said they were going to try having him work with kids.

They then enroled me in a class for behavior management where I learned that if everyone I knew in my life just took this course - I wouldnt have to. Because I was one of the few people in the room whose breakdown was as much done to me as by me (An ex-best-friend and my ex-girlfriend).

Then, halfway through they cancelled my insurance and tried to kick me out of the course. So I told them that I was going to go home, put a running power drill through my hand and sue them all for breaching thier 'ethics' by beginning my treatment and abandoning me halfway through.

So I got to stay until the end of the group - but I wasnt allowed to visit any of the support sessions or use the phone number if things got bad.

In short - I should get well, get out, and just be gone, as they take THE OTHER STATE SPONSORED INSURANCE.

And the pills, even worse. They started me with Christy but another person wrote the perscription. So I would be discussing being bipolar for an hour with Christy only to have my doctor refuse to write my perscription for a bipolar medication because in the 5 mins she spent with me - she saw no sighn of that.

I am bipolar. It took me almost two more years to get medicated for it though.

Monk has a shrink/shrinks who are good at thier jobs, seemingly leaders in thier feild without being the most expensive guys in town. All medication requires dosage adjustments in the beginning, at least, all mine did. But that balance is what you're looking for.

Monk symptoms can be treated, but it would affect his gift. I know once on my meds I almost stopped writing completely and in the YEARS since I've only completed one piece of fiction where as - I used to be able to write an impressive and poinient story once or twice a week before.

But it's a trade off.

In the real world, Monk wouldnt be a detective any more. He'd be taking pills, on disability and working in a library or something where he can avoid stress. Because treating the symptom is always done before the real problem is addressed - and you can get caught up addressing those symptoms for years. And if addressing the symptoms 'works', i.e. you can look 'fine' in the eyes of a stranger - then they stop right there and just maintain without ever addressing the problem at all.

Monk is a great show. But you cant touch every tree in a forest and confuse the dogs about which one you're in. And you cant make real world medical comparisons without discovering how much it is 'just a show'.

In fact, i dont even know if you can make the kind of progress Monk wants with his life. Like returning to the force for example - that's him wanting a piece of his old life back.

But when you're picking up the pieces of your life, in real life, you dont get to choose the ones you want. You just take one ones that arent broken so bad and try to build something new - not a replica of what you lost.

...

This post didnt start off to be about picnics or something, did it? I feel I've been rambling.

<shrug> 'Nuff said I suppose.

-M

If they just kept readjusting your dosage and didn't keep changing your meds and combinations of meds and adding meds and dropping meds--and over the course of many many years, then trust me--you got very lucky. lol At least my mother and sister didn't get bumped off the government welfare insurance--can't remember if it was medicare or medicaid at that time but I think it is now. In PA it's a flaming yellow card, but we were in OH when my mother started getting hospitalized over 35 years ago.

They both now have more prescriptions than most HIV patients do--they both need their own shelves and not little medicine cabinet shelves--they each take a high shelf on a wooden stand up bookcase. Neither of them can fit their meds in the medicine cabinet. My mother told me my father was manic depressive. He also refused meds--bad idea--but my aunt (his sister) told me no, he was bi-polar.

My mother also tried to tell me the whole time that she was bi-polar. I guess she thought that made her sound less bad off, but that same aunt told me no. "I saw the papers with the diagnosis on it--she's paranoid schizophrenic." When I cornered my mother on her lie, she fessed up. My sister also tried to tell me she was bi-polar. When they tried to take my son from me, all three of their evaluations were sent to my lawyer--my sister had lied too. Another paranoid schizophrenic. I don't think they considered that with their past mental health histories, that a judge would order evaluations and that they'd be "outed." They ended up shooting themselves in the foot with their little GPV lawsuit. One year of absolute hell but then they lost everything, even the weekly phonecall. The shrinks are probably still experimenting with their meds.

Mr Monk or The Monk, what a choice.

Talking about the modern man and pursuit of happiness. Hand in hand with this demand to be happy there appeared alienation. People didn´t know any more who they are and why. So people noticed, that they are not happy at all. This pursuit of happiness hasn´t worked at all.

It seems to me, that mr Monk knows the directions of his life. These directions are to get her wife´s murderer catch and meantime, bring order to the world, and to get back to police force. But there isn´t much happiness in his life. And he suffers his situation, it didn´t bring him much satisfaction. So maybe a little medication could be good for him?

There are allways side effects in medication. I haven´t read the books, where the Monk appeared, but in Takes the Medication I think the side effects were quite severe. He could not concentrate at all as a detective, so if he has used the medication he would had to give up his work and his hopes to get his badge back.. And the medication prevented him to see his Trudy.

Somehow I didn´t like so much The Monk. Although mr Monk seemed to be happy with it at the beginning, I wonder, is The Monk such a person, that mr Monk would like to be the rest of his life. And in the episode he didn´t seem to fit although he has taken his medication. Finally he was more alone than before his medication, even her wife didn´t show up to him. These pills didn´t fit to him, just imo.

In the real life yes, he would use some pills, but in the show he didn´t want to use any. Maybe the improvement is possible after he has solved his wife murder. It would be comfort to see ´the twilight zone Monk´, the best combination of these two polarities(, but it could also be the worst combination... forget it). We would love to see him get better, but if he gets too well, the show would change a lot. Monk without quirks. Which Monk is the real one?
Just some thoughts.

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