I just read rumors at other fan sites that LOCI's creator, Rene Balcer, will be succeeding Warren Leight as showrunner this fall, at VDO's request.

Since they invented the Goren character together, I'm excited about this possibility. Apparently Balcer is quoted in the new TV Guide article.

That would be great! Renee Balcer created Goren and I think that is good news for our character!

ITA- WELCOME BACK RENEE BALCER!!!

OMG!!! That would be AWESOME!!! He and VDO make such a fabulous team in the development of the Goren character. Since Goren is now at such a crossroads in his evolution, the character basically must be reinvented but in such a way as to retain the character's integrity and "uniqueness" plus maintain fan loyalty and VDO's interest in portraying him. It's a tall order, but if anybody can do it, VDO and Balcer can. I'm EXCITED!!!

That would be great, but isn't he show runner at the original?

There's no official word to confirm this.

Patcat

To quote Orson/VDO in "Five Minutes, Mr. Welles" - "I know! I know!" (exhibiting the same degree of frustration). I can dream and pray, can't I? Sigh!.

Which doesn't make it untrue.

If LOCI and the mothership are on different shooting schedules, why couldn't Balcer honcho both? Sure, it may be exhausting but the guy is a barrel of creative energy. And why not take on the challenge (and make the money) while he's still hot and able?

This rumor appears to be all over the Internet. I guess we'll have to wait and hear from Dick Wolf (or Rene Balcer) tyo get the real scoop. If there's a vote though -- -- my vote is for the one and only Balcer!

I highly doubt Balcer will return to CI. He's the showrunner for the Mothership, it had a very successful season this year (after a horrible season last year) partly because he was in charge again. I doubt Dick Wolf would be willing to part with him. As for running both shows? He'd have to produce (and write) 13 episodes of L&O, 16 of CI.....He may have a lot of energy, but I imagine he would also like to have a life.

He wouldn't have to write and produce 29 total episodes, just oversee them. Which I admit would be a huge job but both shows do have very talented creative staffs.

Doesn't Rene Balcer also own a percentage of LOCI? Wouldn't that be an impetus for him to get back in the LOCI showrunner's saddle?

To quote Goren: My partner just loves rumor and innuendo.

I would love it if Balcer returned to helm LOCI - seriously who would think that was a bad idea? But... with Dick Wolf going for the 'record' with L&O would he really want the man responsible for sheparding the original through a difficult time to leave and possibly jeopardise his chances?

I'm reeling from what did actually happen today (Noth!!! & Goldblum?!?), that I can't even begin to contemplate this one.

I think Balcer will return to explore Jeff Goldblum's character and explore more about Eames, Ross, and Wheeler. We already know more about Goren, now is someone else's turn.

From the writers (email came to me at 7 pm Eastern time this evening)

"Chris Noth will be replaced by Jeff Goldblum for Season 8. We'll have additional news [for you] in the morning."

Sorry to see Chris going but... Yay! Jeff Goldblum! Good call!

Goldblum happens to be a good friend of one of my writer strike buds (an actor who does theater out in Los Angeles). So I feel like 'extended family' is joining Team CI.

Sweet news to me!

And if Rene is back then I will be very very VERY excited for Season 8.

Not like I could sleep anyway...

Some of us fans in my 'help the actors through their negotiations' group online have a very special thing we're cooking up for Criminal Intent and VDO fans that is going to make you all *very* happy and do some real good for some people we've all worried about for many months now. I can't wait to spill the details to you all but am not allowed to do so yet...we're in 'wait and see' mode as to what happens with the actors between June 30th (contract expiration day and VDO's 49th birthday) and July 9th (date results of AFTRA contract vote will be known) but regardless what happens to the actors, CI fans can expect good things to happen very very soon.

(too bad this smiley doesn't jump up and down with excitement and joy)

The Vault

In the words of Carrie Bradshaw "It is cruel to tease".

How about you just PM me with the details?

Can any of your wr iter friends comment about Rene Balcer's return?

Geez Vault I didn't know yall were so worried about me that yall were going to fly me to see VDO in person, wow I am so touched. See what happens when you post sooo much you become Royalty!

Wow, VDOVault, I am very very excited to see what you've got cooked up!!! I can't imagine what it is, but I'm very excited!!!

Oh no, this is toooooo much. Not only do the previews lie but now this big juicy carrot of potentially much joy bringing info is dangeld in front of my very eyes.... NO FAIR!!!!!

Cloggs

According to them, this is not going to happen...two shows is two much to handle especially since the mothership's offices are in LA and CI (and SVU) are in NYC

So while Rene is an awesome guy, running the mothership and CI at the same time would tax even a superhero (although it might result in piling up a lot of frequent flyer miles or keep Superman very fit)

The Vault (no news yet on a CI showrunner...as soon as I know something, you'll know something)

Even if he doesn't come back as the actual show runner, I'd love to see Rene Balcer take a more active role in LOCI. The one thing I thought was missing after he left was his mastery of telling a great crime story. Oh the cases were still mostly good, occasionally very good. But under Rene there seemed to be more suspense and a better hunk of cheese at the end of the maze.

I kinda wondered about him coming back when I saw that he and Vincent were both interviewed about LOCI for TV Guide this week. Why would he be giving a current interview for a show he used to run two years ago? Hmmmm......

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

I think Rene is still Executive Producer on LOCI. The fact Goldblum was announced at the same time as Noth leaving kind of implies they knew Noth was heading out at the end of season 7.

I'm sure that when there's something 'official' to say about the new show runner - and the outcome of the SAG negotiations - we'll hear about it.

Patience is a necessity in C.I.World

Me too. Perhaps the next LOCI showrunner will be more Balcer-friendly than Warren Leight and the title "consulting producer" will actually take on some meaning.

Ms. Vault, do your friends inside the show have anything to say about chnaces for Eric Overmyer?

Hi MsSweden

As of this writing I haven't heard anything yet on who the next showrunner will be.

It is understandable though because right now there is the potential for additional labor turmoil to happen to the whole industry and every TV show currently in production is in high gear trying to get as many episodes finished as possible.

Right now my first concern is that CI Season 7 has the 22 episodes it is supposed to have finished as promised and planned and that if labor turmoil for the actors can be averted that I've done everything I can do to make that happen. I care about this because it affects not only fans but everyone working on the CI production team...if we were to go out of production for any reason and for any length of time, there is the possibility that our current season could be shortened and several people could end up with much smaller paychecks than they had planned on; my worries are mostly for those middle class people who work on our show (I am not as worried about the cast and the writers but if the interruption were to drag out they too could get hurt financially).

So I am not pushing the showrunner issue with my sources...I'm trying to let them work right now with as few distractions as possible.

But as soon as I know something I'll share it with you all.

With that said, I've got to get back to something else I'm working on today and some meetings I have to be in this afternoon. I'm pressed for time so I apologize if this message comes off as curt or rude but I wanted to answer your question as completely as I can at this moment.

The Vault

I am bumping this back to the top because nothing -- I mean nothing -- is more important to the future of LOCI (and to whether it has a long-term future) than the choice of the new showrunner. The showrunner drives the bus and -- with Warren Leight's brain already focused on his HBO show -- there is no one at LOCI's helm. It's lurched from choppy epi to epi in S7.5 and is weaving all over the road. Frankly, I'm worried.

If Rene Balcer won't take the wheel, then who would we trust in LOCI's driver's seat?

Did I see that he was credited with Consulting Producer on last night's episode?

Rene's always been a consulting producer on CI because he created the characters (with the help of the actors of course)

The Vault

Just curious but what makes you think Warren Leight's not currently focused on CI? The incontrovertible evidence for this idea is what exactly?

It's one thing to say you don't like the current crop of episodes, but another to accuse a showrunner or anyone on the CI production team of slacking, especially without any concrete evidence for your proposition.

The Vault (who disagrees that the showrunner decision is the most important thing going on right now and is anxiously awaiting news of what the actors are going to do...we should know in a couple of hours)

ah, thanks! I thought maybe he was helping out once in a while...I'm glad he still consults with LOCI.

My sources at "In Treatment" and the incontrovertible number of hours in a day.

P.S. We'll have to agree to disagree about what's most important -- the driver of the bus, or the passengers onboard.

P.P.S. That said, I hope SAG doesn't strike. Another strike will kill the Hollywood economy, especially the TV and TV-related community.

Which are whom or what exactly?

Please tell me they're not the same as another member's sources cited during the WGA strike that alleged that a certain CI actor's production company was scabbing...if I recall correctly that source was the gossip columnist Liz Smith and that back then this user could not prove her potentially defamatory assertion was true (no link or citation was provided to me to read for myself.

I get that there's only 24 hours in a day and that a showrunner job is a very time intensive one. But unless I see real evidence that Warren Leight is AWOL from CI, not only do I not believe you, once again I find a fan's naked assertion that he's somehow doing wrong by his current employer or the audience far less than credible.

I like Rene and his work fine, even better than a lot of what has happened under Warren's leadership. But that is an opinion not an accusation. Opinions are okay to have, but accusations need to be backed up with facts for them not to be hurtful, insulting or defamatory.



Wrong analogy...the actors are hardly 'passengers' along for the ride...they're more like team members who get handed the baton in the second leg of a relay race...the first leg being run by the writers. If any member stumbles (or is tripped up), the whole race is negatively affected.



I don't think that TV will die completely if there is a strike (or more likely a lockout) It will be reborn online and on other platforms. TV didn't kill movies and home video didn't kill off movies or TV. But the intervening transition period will bring great pain to those who work in the industry and it already has. There's no such thing as a good time to strike or be locked out. But there's also no good reason to let people walk all over you or lie to you or underpay your brethren.

Meanwhile I'm off for the moment...it's back to news monitoring and helping get the charity auctions which will benefit the people hurt by the entertainment industry turmoil for me for the rest of the evening.

The Vault

Have no idea what you're referring to re: Liz Smith and scabbing.

May I (gently) remind you that you make assertions constantly, without providing links or naming your sources specifically.

You know TV writers. I know TV writers too. And production people. In this case -- "In Treatment" -- my source is a fellow college alum and friend of long-standing. Though I may not post much -- nor mention my connections -- please be assured that they're as real, as reliable, and as documented as yours.

Tell you what...you choose to believe whatever it is you believe...that's your right and though I don't understand exactly where you're coming from or why you're posting what I believe to be unsubstantiated and to my mind unfair gossip about Warren Leight's professionalism (or alleged lack thereof) here, I will definitely and vigorously defend your right to share it here even if I vigorously disagree with your assessment of Leight's professional commitment to CI.

It's also okay by me if you like Rene better than Warren, personally or professionally. However since Rene is not the showrunner on CI anymore nor is he likely to return, I suggest that if you believe that Rene's the most important element of any show he works on, that you spend more of your time watching the mothership where Rene is showrunner and will stay in that position, at least until Dick Wolf has secured the record for longest running drama series for it. I caught an episode or two of the original L&O this past season and I must say that the writing is back up to the high standards of the early days (which I enjoyed). I haven't kept watching the original partly because the rest of the show didn't impress me as much, particularly some of the performances (remember I see a show as a package deal while apparently good writing is what you love most) and partly because my time has already been committed elsewhere. Maybe once labor peace has been secured I can catch up with this past mothership season.

At the end of the day, this is all just fandom. You should enjoy yourself when you participate in it and adapt with the changes to the show, because life is too short and precious to spend on dissatisfying entertainments. And if you don't enjoy CI anymore, try taking a break from it. If you really don't like the current CI incarnation you don't have to watch it. But I think you'll find most of the people here really love CI as it is.

Personally I sometimes miss the early days of CI but I have found enough in the latest version to keep watching even though the exciting and intense honeymoon period of CI fandom is done for me and isn't likely to return. But I am in a more mature relationship with my fondness for CI and all the people who work on it. And I also like chatting with the people who choose to hang out here which is why I also hang out here so much and not so much at the other forums on CI and VDO. This forum and these people are special to me.

As to my veracity or reliability, if you look at my prolific posting record here (1200+) you will find that the vast majority of what I assert I do back up with links and/or sources when I am at liberty to post them. If you're not at liberty to do the same re 'In Treatment' that's perfectly okay. But I am pretty certain that my posting record speaks for itself.

The Vault

I am not assaulting Warren Leight's professionalism.

That a person is not fully focused on the job he's leaving, and spending time planning for his new position is a human thing.

There is quite a lot going on behind the scenes at "In Treatment" right now that requires WL's attention. He's the program's new leader, and of course no one at the show wants to make a decision without consulting him. Of necessity that means WL can't be fully focused on LOCI -- not like he was a year ago. That's simply life -- his life now -- and it's difficult to balance. LOCI appears to be suffering, as the last three disjointed, blandly written, unoriginal episodes prove (to many, if not all, fans on this board and other forums.)



I do admire Rene Balcer tremendously, and I have been thrilled with the new life's he's injected to original L&O. But that has nothing to do with the talented Warren Leight (whom I wish well at HBO) or my concerns for LOCI.



The fact that I do love LOCI and have been a dedicated fan for many years is why I write here.

What you appear to be telling me, Ms Vault, is "LOCI -- love it as it is, or leave this board." Ah, I remember that sort of sentiment from flag-wavers on the other side of the police line when I protested the Vietnam War. Do you remember what we protesters said in rejoinder?

I have an adult relationship with LOCI too -- and my considerable knowledge of the entertainment business tells me that the choice of the new showrunner is critical to the series' future. If you do know people in the TV writing world, Ms Vault, I have no doubt they'll confirm that.

There's no reason you should feel threatened by my presence and posts. I'm not here to harm or malign anyone -- I am here to keep the current #1 LOCI issue in front of other fans, for the good of the show, and for anyone who may be interested in the subject.

Here's hoping that SAG won't strike, and that you'll cool down and have a productive and happy day.

I think there is a lot of perception in this statement and others like it. If you think the show is bland and disjointed, you are going to notice and mentally count the posts that agree with that point of view more than those who are pretty happy with what they're seeing. It's true for everyone... it's just human nature.

To me it seems most fans are pretty happy with the season though they wouldn't categorize it as the strongest ever, though they're a little worried about the angst taking over the show. I'm sure it seems that way to me because that is my opinion and I'm unconsciously noticing the agreement more that the opposite.

I point this out because I think it hurts your arguement to state as fact that which is actually anecdotal.





I don't know about everyone else, but this is where your arguement really comes off the rails for me. When you start comparing your dissagreement on a fan message board to anti Vietnam war protests you're just going to turn people off. I mean... my boss might be a jerk, but comparing his slightly facist tendencies to Mussolini just makes me sound like a drama queen.




Ya, I didn't see anything in VDO Vault's posts that smelled like feeling personally threatened. The fact is, she's got so solid a rep that other boards consider something "verified" when she posts about it. I can't tell you how many times I've read "is the rumor true.... word just in... The Vault says it's true". What I never seem to read is, "turns out The Vault was full of it." She consistantly gets the facts, usually as soon as or sooner than the media and if she's speculating, she says so and doesn't pass it off as fact. So we trust her.

You may be just as knowledgeble and connected as she, but how would we know that? It takes time and consistancy to build a rep with any community of people, but (and I hope you'll take this in the spirit it is intended even though you can't see the gentle look on my face) it'll only be a longer and harder road if you get testy with someone who already has the respect and trust of the crowd.

I don't know if any of that helps. Remember there is at least a 50% chance that I'm just talking out of my ass.

Please read your friend Ms Vault's message to me again. She's purporting to speak for most of the members of this forum when she suggests that everyone likes the show as it is, and maybe I should just quit watching for awhile because I have criticisms. In other words, her position vis a vis me is "Love it or leave it." That reminded me of the pro-war Vietnam era chant/bumper sticker: "America, love it or leave it." If you came of age in the 1960s or 70s you'd realize I wasn't calling Ms. Vault a fascist. And after all, this is a TV show -- not western civilization -- we're debating here.



Your choice, and perhaps it's a fine one. But I have noticed, even on this board in the past, that she gets very competitive when someone else posts that she or he has entertainment industry contacts too. Check the archives. Immediately Ms. Vault flies off with the third degree of "who are they" and "who are you." She clearly cherishes her self-created position of authority on this board and is unwilling to concede that others here may have inside information that she doesn't have.

I admire your loyalty to your friend, pfchristine, but the reputation you believe she has on other fan sites -- or even with everyone here -- is not quite as you describe it.

But that is not why I post. It's not at all about Ms. VDO Vault -- so shall we stop discussing her?

I think we should focus on the next showrunner -- who will he or she be? Who would be good for the show, who would not. Because -- even if you thoroughly enjoyed season 7 -- things are going to change. And the person who will be most in control of that change is the new LOCI showrunner. If not Rene Balcer himself, then IMHO it should be someone very open to working with Rene Balcer.



Point well-taken -- though, honestly, I've no personal need to prove anything to anybody. I'd just like to have an intelligent exchange with other LOCI fans about this vital issue of new showrunner.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

No, I don't think so. Anyone who suddenly enters a forum and starts posting negative, inflammatory comments about a person or a show has an agenda.

If you honestly believe that Leight has bailed on LOCI, then so be it. I and many others, do not. Why the need to keep bringing it up, if not to bash the man? I'm sure Warren knows who the new show runner is at this point and may be discussing things with him/her so as to have a smooth transition. And just because he has been in communication with his new job doesn't mean that he is ignoring his old one.

My pleasure. Thanks for taking it in the spirit in which it was intended.


PS: For the record, I'm not a personal friend of VDO Vault. I seriously doubt she has any idea who I am. Anything I said sprang purely from by observations and perceptions, not out of a frienship loyalty. This was just me calling it as I saw it. You milage may (and probably will) vary.

PPS: I don't think you're a facist. My former boss is a facist. I was just proffering a simile. And saying my boss is a facist. Cuz he is.

First of all, I signed up for this forum some time ago. I read rather than post as I believe do many who are members here.

When something important comes up - that I think is important to the show -- about which I have independent knowledge (whether you believe me or not) that's when I'm moved to post.

"Agenda"??!!! What kind of agenda? I've been skimming other LOCI fan sites recently and there's seems to be an awful lot of touchiness-cum-paranoia infecting these spaces. People fiercely defending Chris Noth and/or Warren Leight against imagined attacks; others fighting over Jeff Goldblum; and still others accusing other members of "having an agenda" if they post something sincere but critical of LOCI & company.

What possible "agenda" could I be pursuing here, DonnaJo? Would you give me a real, non-flippant answer to that?

Ms. Sweden, if you are truly a fan who simply has concerns about LOCI, than I apologize for my remarks about an agenda. However, if you do visit other sites, you will see quite a bit of negative posting (all of a sudden) about Leight and how terrible a showrunner he was. And how Noth was such a bad choice all of these years for LOCI. You can understand why people might feel a bit paranoid?

And I must defend VDO Vault, who has an excellent reputation here & elsewhere for her insightful thoughts & tireless work informing posters about matters pertaining to LOCI. She is diligent in providing accurate links to articles & sources. And to say that she has a "self created position of authority" tells me that you are not active enough or informed enough about this message board. That position, as you call it, was earned. And it is not self created, that I do know.

And to get back on topic, I was pm'd by a friend on another site who seems to be in the "know" that the new show runner has been chosen, and it is not Rene Balcer (obviously). It is someone who is a friend of Dick Wolf's and is not currently writing for any of the Law & Order's, but has vast experience in writing for television. This isn't confirmed or definite yet, but it should be soon.

Does the last name start with an F?

My worst fear is that a total stranger will take over, and turn Bobby from quirky into bafoonish.

I don't think Vincent would let anyone do that. My worst fear is that the stories will become obvious and flat. I'm addicted to layered and complex

And in this we can also agree. VDO is very much a showrunner himself--it was he that had all the quirks toned down a bit, because he didn't want Goren to be so weird that he wouldn't actually be allowed to be a cop. It was he that said he doesn't want Bobby's oddness, like the leaning bit, to get too expected or kitschy.

The show will be allright.

Ummm...no, it doesn't. Sorry.

I just read that in the TV Guide... Now all TV Guide needs to do is put Vincent D'Onofrio on the cover and I will be in heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, whoever the showrunner turns out to be, I hope they do some closing scenes in the INTERROGATION room!! It seems like they are shying away from that..... (I know they don't always have to get the suspect to confess in the interrogation room, but those scenes are some of the most riveting in previous seasons....) Even though they are toning it down a bit, I still think they should have Goren do a "hand slam" on the table in front of the suspect in the interrogation room once in a while..... I LOVE GOREN!!!!!

I can't wait to see how this is all going to play out next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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About the LOCI bashing posts, all I can do is shake my head..... This board is for fans of the show to discuss the show, characters, etc... not tear it down..... (Don't be mad at me; it's just an observation that I have...) I don't post on boards of other shows if I don't have anything nice to say...
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Anyway, I hope LOCI stays on the air for years to come.....

Sorry, we should not be guessing (after all, that's how rumors get started). I just could not resist when I read that it was a friend of Mr. Wolf's, I thought of another well known producer/writer/showrunner who isa friend of his.

ahhhhh, we will have to be patient.

I think Rene Balcer is wonderful and he is doing a great job at L&O.
I really like what Warren Leigh has done for LOCI. It has to be a very demanding job.
My best wishes to him in his future endeavours.