Lozzie...

I've always imagined being teased by D'Onofrio, but not in this manner...

I don't know whether to say GUH or be excisted.

I sure hope Rocky can pull Bullwinkle out of a nosedive- - Rocky is a pilot right?

I'm glad I'm not the only one. He bugs me.

Here is another wacky idea. What if Donny turns out to be Bobby's son, not Frank's? The only thing I can't work out is how that would have happened. Like I said it was a wacky idea fueled by how much Bobby and Donny are alike. Then again, I am more like my aunt in looks and personality than my mom, so maybe I just shot my own theory out of the water.

A menage a trois between Bobby, Frank & Donny's Mom one night?

And in the season finale they all appear on Jerry Springer to find out "Who 'da baby Daddy?"!!!!!

Spoiler:

WTF IS GOING ON WITH VDO??

LOL at Jerry Springer!!!! Actually, Maury Povich is the one who does the "Who's the Baby Daddy" drama. (Yes, I know. I need a life for real. LOL)

hey isn't that what this new movie umm... isn't it called Mama Mia. (it's looks horrible0 Isn't that what it's ALSO about?

It's on tomorrow too. It starts really early and goes untill 3 O'clock. Central standard time.

Funny Funny NLfan

..And Jerry ( or Maury) reveal through DNA results that Donny's father is really Bobby. Then Donny's Mom says she's suing him for 19 years of back child support.

Vault, here is the complete "diagnosis" from the article. Hope it helps clarify why the author said what he said:


Diagnosis: Post-Romantic Stress Syndrome
OK, we made that one up. But it's the best way to describe the psychological morass that is Goren's relationship with criminal mastermind Nicole Wallace (Olivia D'Abo). Sure, she's a purring, pillow-lipped blonde, but it's her mind that tortures our hero. She's the only person who can go head case to head case in the interrogation room and get the better of Goren, taunting "Bubby" in her Australian patois and seeing right through his protective shell to all that pain."That's the only true relationship with a woman that he's had in the last seven years other than his mom," notes D'Onofrio. "Which is very screwed up."


Diagnosis:Narcissistic Personality Disorder
A more taciturn, less flaky Goren of the past few seasons was an attempt , as D'Onofrio said, to, "internalize" the character. "The guy couldn't be so quirky that he wouldn't be allowed to be a cop." That
recalibration seemed to have come full circle when we saw the scruffy, puffy Goren at the beginning of "Purgatory," brooding at the end of the bar.
So who knows? Maybe he will go completely off the rails someday. Until that happens, Goren will remain a work in progress. "The last episode this season will revisit his past in a very literal way," reveals D'Onofrio. "He'll be pulled out of a nosedive," adds Balcer. OK, just don't go making him normal or anything.

maybe something about the rat and the one who put it in his drawer ??

So glad to have an article about CI in TV Guide-about time-
I can understand the Nicole Wallace angle-there was definitely an attraction between the two and maybe some empathy as well and if it wasn't for the fact that they were on opposite sides of the law, well then....................
But that last quote and comment from Vincent and Rene-
OK is it the DNA test-
Does Goren visit his childhood home and stir up memories that he's forgotten-
Is it an encounter with Frank-
And he's pulled out of a nosedive, how much further down can he go-
Suicide, murder, Nicole-
And who pulls him out-
Please let it be Eames-
I have to say that Goren and Eames are just a great duo and Vincent and Kate have done an excellent job with the characters-
It anyone else is familiar with the classic "Thin Man" movies with the great William Powell and Myrna Loy, Vincent and Kate do them justice-
Regi.

Balcer is still a consulting producer on the show and Goren is after all mostly his original creation - not in any way to minimize D'Onofrio's contributions to the character or his amazing portrayal of Goren.

I find it reassuring to find out that Balcer is still in the loop to some degree.

Ill just throw this out there-
I know that Goren and Eames are partners but they're also friends and both have gone through some difficult times-
Would it really be so terrible to give a hug or a pat on the back for reassurance-
What about a handshake-
Seems like there is a force field between them-
Regi.

oh god sounds shippy to me, don't know why, Will Eames pull him out of the nose dive? Lets hope they don't end up in bed. I will be sick.

"That's the only true relationship with a woman that he's had in the last seven years other than his mom," notes D'Onofrio. "Which is very screwed up."


What exactly does this mean?

WORD!!!!!!!

I agree how much more can Goren take, maybe it will be the finding out MFB is his father, I don't think Donny could be his son, I think he would recognize the mother. Maybe Goren meets other Children of MFB's rapes from women who survived.

I think Donney looks more like Frank than his uncle (Bobby)

He is an actor he doesn't look like either.

He was cast on purpose to look like Bobby. Just like I think Rita Moreno and VDO look alike. It was actually kinda freaky to me, since they are just actors and don't have any blood relation.

He kinda looks like Tony... just a little bit... But no way in hell could he be Bobby's kid!! (I'd detroy the writers... yet again) He a druggie (I believe he is) His "uncle" didn't want to look for him. Except I do think Bobby is also bipolar, and has high fuctioning austism... But Donny doesn't have that. Bobby DOES not have any real similarties between he and his nepehews.

YIKES!!!

WTF???

With Bobby's anger issues, I think Frank should watch out for flying chairs!

Well said. I agree with your take on things. My guess is he finds out Brady is his father. Donny came out of the blue...I wonder if he really is Frank's or is Frank keeping a secret? You would think Robert would remember every sexual encounter (which I believe he does). Poor Robert- no relationship with a woman other than his partner- - he needs some lovin a woman's touch.

(Toby Keith/Wayne Perry)

Lately I've been lookin' through the windows of my soul
And I can see there's not much left to hold
Just an empty space surrounded by the pieces of
A badly broken heart that's forgotten how to love

What my heart needs is a woman's touch
A tender hand to fix it up
Its rough and ragged edges sure could use some love
What my heart needs is a woman's touch

When I look in the mirror, the only thing I see
Are traces of the man I used to be
Late at night I hear it, it cannot be denied
A lonely voice is crying out from somewhere deep inside

What my heart needs is a woman's touch
A tender hand to fix it up
Its rough and ragged edges sure could use some love
What my heart needs is a woman's touch

What my heart needs is a woman's touch
A tender hand to fix it up
Its rough and ragged edges sure could use some love
What my heart needs is a woman's touch

Yeah, its rough and ragged edges
Sure could sure some love
What my heart needs is a woman's touch

What my poor heart needs is a woman's touch
A woman's touch

Ditto! Everyone, including VDO and Renee Balcer, say awful things about Bobby. That he's crazy and whatever, but I keep syaing all that man needs is the unconditional love of a good woman! It would cure so many of his problems.

Good points, Jryan. I don't believe Donny is Goren's son--my younger son looks exactly like my brother, just how the genes fit him I guess. Perhaps he does meet other children and decides once and for all to have an answer. From what I recall of Endgame, the last time Frances and MFB were together was the night JFK won the election (I think that's how it was worded). Do any history buffs know when the 1960 election was, and when Kennedy was announced the winner? Then count forward 9 mos.......aaargh, I can't stand this! Let's hope the DNA test (if done) was NEGATIVE. How much more can Goren take?

You know what? I was totally wrong about "Betrayed." So, without any more info, I'm not gonna worry about this anymore. I'm just hoping and believing he'll be okay.

With all due respect, cluck, I see absolutely no physical similarity between Rita Moreno & VDO. Rita looks more like she could be Eames' mother than Bobby's mother. Her facial features are the opposite of his. And she's tiny.

I also don't see Donny looking like Bobby either. Or Frank. Jeez....if I were the casting director, I would select actors that could reasonably play relations of each other. Like VDO playing Vince Vaughn's brother in "The Break Up.". That was perfect casting, IMO.

I think that Bobby would have recognized Donny's mom in the picture

I think that at this point the only person that could pull Bobby out of a nosedive is Nicole Wallace.

Maybe she will do something so heinous (be Donny's cougar ), that Bobby would get so angry and snap back to himself.

I have said it before, as much of a shipper that I am, if he can't have Eames, then Nicole is the only woman for him. Rene Balcer is right.

Thats interesting how we see them differently.

I didn't think any of them looked alike. When Frank made the remark about Donny looking like his Uncle Bobby I laughed. I couldn't see it.


I agree with cluck about Bobby just needing the love and understanding of a good woman. My husband says I cured his stuttering with my love and kindness. Not to pat myself on the back (well maybe a little) but when I met him the poor guy stuttered so badly that I thought he was wasted. I think maybe I could help Bobby out.
IF Goren comes out of his nosedive by the end of this season does that mean season 8 G/E episodes might be a little more fun like the earlier seasons?

By "true relationship" I think VDO meant that they are the only two women who have broken through the protective barriers Bobby has erected around his "true" self. IMO neither relationship was positive for Bobby.

He allowed his mother to get through to his "true" self because he loved her so much, not that she realized it or really cared because she was too self absorbed. She took his devotion for granted and never really saw him as a person with his own needs, wants, stresses and insecurities until she was on her death bed and she knew she was going to have to devastate him by confessng her relationship with Brady. Until then she didn't even pay enough attention to him to realize that his hair was grey or that he wasn't taking care of himself. IMO the only "true" moment of mother and son intimacy they ever shared was when she finally said "Bobby, I'm sorry."

As for Nicole, as the article said, she is the only one who ever got inside his head. Because she had erected similar barriers to protect herself during a childhood of abuse and neglect, she knew how to penetrate his defences and get at the "true" Bobby. Although she used this power to inflict pain on him during their sparring matches, there was still a shared intimacy between them because they each understood the other like nobody ever had before. As VDO said, it was all "very screwed up".

As for Eames, Bobby tries to maintain an element of professionalism in their relationship. He knows that she needs to be able to trust him to do his job effectively and feel confident that he has her back in a crisis situation. For this reason he has always tried to conceal much of his damaged self from her. They are partners and friends who care very much about each other but, up to this point at least, their relationship lacks the "true" intimacy of sharing on a personal level. Despite being partners for seven years, most of what she knows about his background and his wounded psyche she has picked up in bits and pieces through circumstance, not through him deliberately sharing with her, e.g. she found out about his mother's cancer when he said it to Ray in "Siren Call". Within the past year or so, however, his personal issues became so overwhelming that he couldn't keep it all in any longer and stuff has come spewing out in all directions. Eames has done her best to try and help and protect him during this difficult time but he has repeatedly shut her out. IMO that's why VDO didn't count Bobby's relationship with Eames as being a "true" relationship. Perhaps now since Bobby has had some therapy and Eames' tirade in "Purgatory" has upset the status quo, they may actually move forward to develop a more "true" relationship (but not in a shippy way).

Edited to add:
I think the nosedive Rene Balcer is referring to is the one Bobby has been caught up in since Season 6.

Thank you for that - it makes me feel considerably better about the whole thing. What you say makes perfect sense.

NL, I agree with your analysis of what is a "true" relationship in terms of Goren. And as you say, both women (Mom & Nicole) were either way too narcissistic (Mom) or crazy/evil (Nicole) to offer anything other than pain to our guy.

Men Goren's age, especially after a loss, will usually seek out companionship. They will tentatively open themselves up to dates set up by friends/coworkers or frequent places where they might meet a nice woman. Could that have been Bobby's plan when he started frequenting the neighborhood bar? To meet someone nice? And when that doesn't pan out (meaning he loses his nerve) he becomes morose & hits the keg hard. Just a theory.

Since Bobby is widely viewed as "whacked" at work, it would be unlikely that someone would set him up on a date. Eames could, but as you say, she is closed off to him in that department. Imagine how awkward that conversation would be?

This nosedive he's been going through since Season 6. Could you elaborate a bit?

Kennedy was elected on November 8, 1960. That would put the baby due around mid-August. Bobby's b'day of August 20 fits nicely right in there.

I was going to point out the same thing. That is why Mrs. Goren never really knew for sure who the father was.

Since they said that Bobby is going to revist his past in a literal way, I'm leaning toward Bobby visiting a childhood home or something else of that sort. Unless the pull a freaky X-Files move and have Bobby somehow get sucked into the past and truly have him revisit it. It could also be a case that reflects something that happened to Bobby during his childhood that would case him to relive something traumatic.

Finding other children of Mark Ford Brady is a good angle except for one thing - been there, done that in Olivia's search for other children of her rapist father. That is why I am hoping that they don't make Bobby's dad be Brady. Not to minimize the trauma of what that experience must be like (and my heart truly goes out to people who have been raped or are products of rape), but it works on SVU because it makes Olivia more sympathic to the victims. Bobby's childhood was screwed up enough before Brady came into the picture without making his real father a murdering, rapist on top of it all.

I agree. Having MFB as Bobby's father would just be too 'over the top' for me. God knows Bobby has enough issues - this would be too much.

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense!

NL, you've said it best, have nothing to add except thanks and I agree with you.



I have a "pregnancy wheel" at work, and that's what I came up with too.......oh man, PLEASE may I beg the writers to not have MFB be Bobby's father. It would just be too much, and probably send him in a downward spiral that might just be the end.....please?

I have a "pregnancy wheel" at work, and that's what I came up with too.......oh man, PLEASE may I beg the writers to not have MFB be Bobby's father.

[/quote]

You gotta be careful, using one of those things at work. People might get the wrong idea. Or do your colleagues already know about your Goren obsession ..?

The article is now on-line:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/vincent-donofr...minal/080627-01

- and the blithering idiots have SPELLED HIS NAME WRONG!! ARGH!

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback on my post. Like everyone, I was thrown for a loop by the Nicole Wallace comment in the TV Guide article and couldn't stop thinking about why VDO would not consider Bobby's relationship with Eames as a "true" relationship.

DonnaJo, sorry I didn't respond sooner to your request for elaboration on my theory that Bobby has been in a nosedive since Season 6. Yesterday I was so caught up in all the threads about changes within LOCI that I didn't check back to this one. I need to collect my thoughts on the issue and I will respond ASAP.

I think the reason why he doesn't consider Eames as relationship material, is because their association is strictly professional ... nothing else. Eames is not part of his life outside of the workplace. I know I'll get shippers who beg to differ, but I call it as I see it. They're not romantic partners and not even friends. They simply work together, period. They rarely confide in each other about matters in their personal lives. What little they know about their partner's situation apart from the squad room is where it overlaps or impacts on their work. They have never been seen socializing after a case.



It's not unlike my own workplace. I genuinely like some of the folks I work with, too, but I would never dream of hanging out with any of them after I've left the premises. I keep my work life and my home life completely separate.

WOW - it's like you're inside my head - I think at one time or another, I have posted the exact same sentiments throughout the various threads. Welcome to the forum - I definitely like the way you think.