Don't get me wrong last night's epi WAS a little shippy (I've actually been a shipper since before the show's premiere though... but...)
Does even anybody agree with me?

Mary: You're like my only friend



Marshall: You're like my best friend

And then later they confess to each other that they're each other's only friend. (About like two seconds later...)

I really wouldn't mind!
I would love some romance

Wah, why did you make me choose?

'Cuz hey yes, I do and shall ship them in fanon. And a little UST awareness from TPTB is always appreciated. Utilized. And extorted.

But unless they play it really, really well (and/or slap Fred) shipping in canon will force me to abandon ship, abandon show, not exactly abandon network but these things can be hard to avoid.

Not to mention, it's a little hard to do the angsty ficcy thing when canon says they're together.

I'd like to see Mary/Marshall together, eventually. I wouldn't want it played out too quickly but I doubt there'll be much more major M/Mness for the rest of the season. I mean, we've had 4 episodes and rather a lot of development. The bit where she's dressed trampish and it totally turns him on, and then the "kiss" lol, and then the whoooole of Trojan Horse. I think they'll play it down a bit now. I'm loving this ship anyway, Marshall is love struck and it's adorable!

Hey bad ass, why you wanna slap Fred? Don't make me break out my mambo pants and go loco on you!

But yar, I'm all for Mary/Marshall!

Bah, how do I incite a nickname of BAJS? It's still pronouncable and a lot shorter- ok yes I'm a little tipsy and not thinking exactly straight.

Gosh, and trust me, I want to attend a USA convention some day in my "Bad Ass Jammie Squad" PJ pants. I don't even know if there is a convention, I'm guessing not, but I will invent one, just so I can do this thing. And my PJ Marshall-loving pants mean I'm totally shipping the M&M.

But after all my years hanging around theatre productions, if I were directing/producing this show, I would kill him. Slap him. I would literally glare at him, and have quasi-eloquent words: I'm completely nonviolent in real life but I would want to know -why-mother-of-god-why- he was pushing the envelope so much further than the writing was indicating.

If we devolve, for a moment, from any protestation of rational argumentation: if I have to spend another dozen+ episodes of strongly indicated UST from Fred's side alone, I'm going to either bite through my lower lip for an unhappy scar, or at least start a mild insanity plea that involves emailing -everyone- at USA 3X a day.

S'all good, I'll just call you BA, or maybe, baaaaaa. *is stupid*


I liked it, I think he did a good job, but that's just my opinion. I think Fred really believes that Marshall's in love with Mary (and I kinda do) so that's probably the reason he played it the way he did. For me it was all in the eyes, he just kept them on her, I was dying a little on the inside, god I love Marshall. May I mother his children someday lmao.


I very much understand this actually. But I think she kinda did kiss him back a little in ep3, and she kissed him in ep4. And the tears at the end, for me, were a little telling. Yes it's her friend but she completly freaked out. I think when he was trying to tell her, I think she was playing dumb somewhat, not saying that she loves him back (I don't think she does but she cares for him rather a lot, whether she will admit it or not) but I think she was scared of the real emotion. That's also shown with how she was with Raph, she doesn't deal well with emotion, hence why I think she was playing dumb a little. When he was looking at her like he was, how can she not know? But, like Baaaa (lol) said, that might just be a little, dare I say, over acting on Fred's part, I still love you Fred, don't fret!

*breathes* and we are done...for now.

Is it just me, or does the M/M thing remind anyone of Elliot and Olivia?

For some reason their relationships just seem similar.

Mary is horrible with relationships, just lilke Olivia.
Marshall feels a sense of responsibility over Mary, kind of like Elliot does over Olivia.
They're all dysfunctional.
Mary and Marshall have deep feelings for each other just like Elliot and Olivia.

It could just be my crazy obsession with SVU talking.

What do you guys think?

This is pretty much how I feel. Once you move beyond UST, things tend to get messy and it alienates me.

I basically dropped Crossing Jordan like a hot rock when they started focusing on the Woody/Jordan thing. Drove me nuts and the rest of the show really suffered badly.

So hell yeah. UST it up. Fred has stated that Marshall is in love with Mary, so yeah, he's playing that. I think Mary's known on some unconscious level for some time, which is why she stumbled when she said, "I thought you loved the job. I thought..." I think what she was going to say was at least 'liked', if not 'loved' her. But for the most part, Mary's in denial.

Me too, I was like woah, she does know, and then she said something different. I do think she knows, like you said, on some level, and yes, she is most definatly in denial about it, I don't think she feels the same way (yet! lol) so she's trying to deal with it by not dealing with it.

I'm going to confess up front: during that scene where Marshall is telling her why he applied for a different job, I was leaning forward to the TV, shouting "Say it! SAY it!" and my heart sank a little when he didn't, although I could empathize with the whole exotic animal analogy, having been so compared myself in the past.

That said, I am an advocate of the alterna-ship philosophy: the way I see it, if Archie can have both Betty and Veronica, Dean and Sam can do random hookups and Anita Blake can have 5 boyfriends +, there is no reason why women elsewhere in fiction can't have multiple love interests.

And I think Mary would be a great candidate for this, and do it in a way that isn't particularly shallow - but still be done as an extension of exactly how screwed up she is when it comes to men and her own fear of commitment.

Why choose one when she could have them all?

I really am enjoying the relationship the way it is now. There is something very sweet and intimate about them. I love their partnership and I don't want anything to change at this time. I guess I'm a person that likes a GREAT partnership and I see a really special relationship. So, I guess in that sense I can be considered a "shipper" =)

I am a sucker for a romance and all, but hey, this show isn't a romantic comedy, it's about US Marshals. While I think they have great chemistry, as far as shipping goes this would just be so wrong on so many levels, like Samantha and ONeil in Stargate wrong.
I also get an Elliot/Olivia vibe, and I agree with what you said Kenzzx2

No shipping for this gal, I like to imagine what ifs, and use those little grey cells, thanks Hercule

Sigh, me too, me too. Everytime I watch that scene I think he's gonna say something different (why yes, I am insane!) it just breaks my heart, poor little Marshall.

My opinion too! I wouldn't change a thing, even thought a part of me cringes at the possible aftermath. [Unless it was to cut the Jinx/Squish from this ep and give Dave Foley more to do.] Because even if he/they did get a little sentimental, a sucking chest wound excuses all! And mmm, his eyes. I spend entire rewatches following his eyes around. It's so lovely to watch actors who are good at expressing characters through their eyes.



This is why I love the writers! They're giving us all these little clues and moments that feed directly into the shippy brain, and yet could be innocuous. Or maybe the complexity is derived from Mary/Fred's differing viewpoints. Huh. I'll ponder on that one.

I don't know why I'm pushing so hard for a platonic relationship here. Maybe because we rarely see it, or whenever anyone writes it fanon takes over interpretation and the show follows with UST to add dramatic tension.

But I'd call the kiss of ep 3 either nothing, or a moment of 'huh?' before she could get her arms in place to push him off. Kiss of ep 4 was on the cheek, in an emotional (partnership) moment. The breakdown in the hospital makes complete sense from a partnership standpoint. At any rate, she's in the aftermath of a completely stressful day, and I for one would probably freak out even if my best friend wasn't currently maybe-dying. We'll note her tendency to keep her adreneline up to avoid down time (when she goes with Stan rather than Marshall at the roadblock - very interesting moment), and at the hospital, once her civilian family arrives, is the first moment of undeniable safety. Chemically, her body's crashing, and her emotions will be drug along, kicking and screaming.

I think Mary loves Marshall. And Marshall loves Mary. And I think that's what it means when you say you're best friends, at least once you're over the age of 12. But it's a different thing to be -in love- with someone. Which is this whole level of 'When Harry met Sally' complexity Marshall might be adding, when Mary's still freaking out over the possibility of needing someone. And here's Marshall suddenly running off without even telling her, the guy who, after 3 years, she's managed to trust, mostly by taking him for granted.

The question is, does Marshall know that? He seems to understand Mary pretty well, and it'll always be an interesting moment when he doesn't. (Like in the stables.)

Negative! No can support.

While Marshall is adorable, he is not the man for Mary. And while Raphael is delectable he isn’t either. I have yet to see the “man for Mary” on the show.

When it comes to Mary, I think “Taming Of The Shrew”. For all her tears over Marshall’s predicament I don’t think that dreamy eyes, sensitivity, and I’m-here-for-you are going to carry the day with Mary. All her guys (Ralph, Marshall, Stan) come off as too needy.

A guy who can love her AND match her “tude-for-tude” AND who is willing to bulldoze through her emotional roadblocks would be her ideal match. Bobby has a little of that, but, so far, not enough.

Also, I hate that whole partners-plus scenario in these types of shows. It really ruins it for me. It is enough to love your partner WITHOUT being in love with your partner. All that will-they-wont-they bunkum, belongs in some romantic comedy somewhere.

I kept thinking that if Marshall says he loves her, she should pull her weapon and put him out of his misery.

Hehe! That brings to mind at least two other memorable moments: "Snap out of it!" and "The stupid boy has fallen in love with me!"

I agree with the bulldozer approach, but narratively, there is something to be said for insidious infiltration. One forces Mary to change, the other allows Mary to change herself. I think the "dreamy eyes, sensitivity, and I'm-here-for-you" opinion is the same mistake Mary's made, on the whole. Marshall isn't weak, he accepts people for who they are.

I can agree with that too. And I like that Bubba actually wouldn't mind seeing a relaitonship between two charecters. Somebody get some good lyrics to put on here to get us in the mood, whichever one we want to be in!!

I think Mary and Marshall may be romantically connected with each other in the middle of the season or in the end of the season. Their magnetic chemistry reaches between a strong bond and the possibility of also more than friends. I enjoy their scenes together, now too. I'm glad there is a bit of levity and tension, and its not the overly dramatic thing between them, as it on other cop shows.
I respectfully disagree Mary works better with a cliche Rambo type. Marshall is a three dimensional character who gets Mary and will call her on her attitude when she dishes it at him, and I hope it doesn't change.

To be honest, I don't want to see it happen first season (being hopeful here.) The Mary/Marshall hookup should come much later.

Right now I'm placing my bets on Durschwitz. The way he despises what she does and says so is definitely hot.

As much as I love M/M as a pairing, I don't want it in the first season either, I like having to wait, makes it better when it finally happens. I think she'll hook up with somebody else (apart from Raph) before her and Marshall get together, can't beat a good ol' love triangle eh?!


Me too, I think someone like that could be a short term lover but I doubt it would go anywhere. Mary has a destructive personality, two destructive personalities in the same relationship would be hot at first and then it'd just blow up. I think Marshall offers stability which I think Mary needs, or would need in the future.

Hey can anybody do me a favor and make me a M&M shippy banner? Try to incorperate M&M's on it (You know, the candy) It's be really cool I'd think. Thanx!!

Definitely count me in as a shipper. I think that Marshall would be perfect for Mary, from what we've seen.

My mom's one, too, though she's not on this forum.

Over the years in TV series, the demise of the show usually follows within a year of a steamy hook-up by the main characters...now, an on-again off-again liason is another thing!

Hey yo Benson, I'll do you one, probs get it to you tomorrow. Any dimensions or you got some for me? I'll expect my payment through the post by the end of next week Bwahaha.


Very, very true. X Files, CSI (in my opinion lol) ...other things that I can't think of lol. I can wait for M/M, well, for a bit anyway lol Waiting 9 months from the end of S1 to S2 (cuz I decided we're getting renewed already lol) is gonna be just awful though. I think they'll cool down M/M for now and just have a little flirtation, which is enough for me at the moment.

Eh, I think that whole idea of a show getting worse after they hook up is a fallacy. It's all about the writing and how well they handle it.

Man, Moonlighting just ruined it for everyone.

I would care to agree with you Lakme...It did ruin Moonlighting when the two major characters hooked up...I think I would not like the relationship to go past friendship..more like brother and sister...Lets keep it friends only...dating a co-worker does not help..take it from me I know!

The biggest problem I have with the possibility of an official ongoing relationship between M&M is that I'm not sure if it would work within the show format. Once they hook up their 'partnership' closes them off even further from other characters, given their established 'loner' statuses. (Stati?)

IPS is quite episodic with tons of genre play, with thin threads of serialism. This screams sci-fi format to me, so I'm biased, but I need my leads to always have the option of levity to keep it all flowing. Which has worked in shows like Buffy, which had larger tighter casts, and more emphasis on relationships and coming of age themes. But here? IPS is almost a little too realistic. It takes itself so seriously about existing in the real world, that I feel like I need their relationship to stay very bantery and non-angsty to counter it.

I still need to see Moonlighting! I've seen little clips only

Well, I'm not saying that I want them to get together right away and/or even stay together long-term. I like angst and sexual tension as much as the next person. If they are together in the series finale, I'll be happy, though.

Moonlighting's problem wasn't just that the couple got together. Its problems were also that the writing deteriorated and the actors started hating each other.

I couldn't agree more. I can't even begin to name all the shows that kind of go down the drain after the UST is resolved (in an ongoing way).

Love triangles, on-and-off trysts or both of them hooking up with others in an attempt to get what they need, are all great ways of keeping the UST alive.

Just please, please, don't make one of them the 'I'd never have a casual hookup' type. I think we've seen that Mary certainly isn't and we don't know enough about Marshall to know.

So, USA! Let Marshall have a casual hookup! Perhaps with someone that looks a bit like Mary or has her type of personality.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

The problem with hooking M&M up (at any time, really) is that it emotionally closes the characters off to potential intimacy and sexual tension with others, which is something I find extremely appealing and entertaining. It's actually a huge draw for me. There have been several shows I've stopped watching after the two leads resolve the relationship. It's just not interesting to me anymore. Bitch about the writers all you like, but much of the chemistry that I found appealing is gone.

But that doesn't preclude some kind of spur of the moment hookup between them. Kind of like the kiss in the barn taken further. Then they decide that it didn't happen or didn't count or whatever and move on and try to regain their former relationship. The only problem with this is while people like me eat it up, we're never in the majority and it makes a lot of (No, I'm not implying that they're wrong or bad or anything, but they just don't want the same things from a show that I do) the 'shippers nuts.

But hookups in fanfiction are fabulous!

I understand, and I don't think anyone would have them hook up in the first season. But, as the series is ending, I think it's safe to start approaching that idea more.

I also still think that it depends on the writing. If you make them a loving, happle couple without any problems ever, yes it gets boring. But if you make their relationship full of turmoil, you get that tension and angst without drawing out a relationship for so long that the audience loses interest. There's a thin line between perpetuating sexual tension, and prolonging the inevitable for so long that it becomes unrealistic. I also dislike constant on/off relationships, too, because I get sick of those.

But I do want them together at the end of the series. It'd be okay in the last episode, wouldn't it? Then the sudden lack of romantic tension wouldn't matter.

Cripes, I've tried to respond to this three times and the laptop kept burping. At the desktop now.

Eh, I suppose in the last ep or maybe even two (because seeing them adjust to the changes in their relationship could be really interesting and/or funny). The problem is that often, production doesn't know until they've wrapped if it was the last ep or not. Most shows don't get the opportunity to conclude their series the way they'd like.

You're right, if the writers keep bringing the characters close and then pulling away, that gets really tiresome, too. (Re: Crossing Jordon - drove me nuts) And Mary could easily be that way with Marshall due to her own intimacy issues. So yeah, it's a very fine line to walk.

I'm really just not a 'couple' person and I think it's a big reason why I avoid some shows and their attendent fandoms. 'Ship wars drive me nuts as does the constant shrieking for 'resolution' and the sense of entitlement to that end. I'm talking Stargate here. The show's been over for a couple of years now and the 'shippers are *still* screeching for resolution in the movies. (Which seems really inappropriate to me. Using a very limited resource to satisfy a small but vocal group of fans). It's not helped by show-runners who try to throw a bone here and there. Grah!

But I wouldn't be opposed to Marshall and Mary sharing a really hot kiss and then one of them (actually, preferably Marshall. That'd be a nice change from Mary being the one to escew intimacy) pulling away and saying 'I'm sorry, but we can't do this.' Granted, I'm not sure I'd want to see it this season. It's just too new. It'd show that new dimension without upsetting the dynamic too much.

The problem I see with putting leads together is that first, I don't enjoy bickering couples, and secondly, neither one can really have much chemistry with anyone else without betrayal issues coming up. No one wants to see that. Well, there might be a few who enjoy that, but I don't think a lot of us do. It casts one of our favorite characters in a bad light.

Anyway, I really enjoy having this kind of intelligent discourse on the issue. Very refreshing!

Thank you!

You're welcome! I'm sort of your opposite--I am definitely a couples person. Though I do not feel that the writers owe me any particular pairing, of course, and usually a show has to have something else going for it. It's the reason Bones is no longer my favorite show--I still love the main relationship, but the other stuff about it that I liked is going downhill, fast.

I don't know, I usually think the last season is when it's safe to start getting characters together. But I understand why there are people who wouldn't even want that to happen then. I'd be okay with them not ending up together as long as they don't end up with different people, because then the option is open. I mean like getting married or something really final, mind you.

hello all! .. i am from the LOCI thread ..watched this show the other night and i have to say yes to this ! they seem very shippy to me !

Lets Set The Record Straight. Who said anything about a “Rambo Type”? I don’t remember mentioning that Mary needed someone with their knuckles dragging the ground who would bash her over the head, throw her over his shoulder and haul her off to his cave.
WHAT, all men are either/or?

Think it was just a figure of speech, didn't particularly mean a guy running around the jungle in camo. Whoever said it just meant personality wise, y'know, the angry type aka male Mary. Just saying that two angry, moody people in one relationship doesn't always work, and I don't think Mary would stand for someone who matched her angriness lol. Marshall chills her out a bit but he can certainly stand up for himself against her, look at Trojan Horst, the scene in the prison, he didn't exactly back down or mince his words. I just think that Marshall would be best for her, in the long run, whether she knows it or not lol.

I've not actually seen Rambo, so my stereotype may be a bit off, but if it means we could snag Adam Baldwin and drag him over as a romantic interest, I'm all for it! He's a Rambo type yes? Especially if we could stick him in drag at some point. (Er, anyone remember American Embassy?)

I don't think we've even seen anyone Rambo-like on the show. From an angry-type standpoint, Bobby D. would have to be closest, because he has an in-your-face opinionated straightforwardness that comes across (to me) as male-y aggressive in a scripted sort of way. At any rate, I've always thought Bobby D. and Mary a likely (but ultimately ill-matched) couple for Rambo-like reasons. He's cards-on-the-table enough to get in her pants, but has a tendency to overcategorize people (as 'pretty woman' or 'committment-phobe'). So ultimately, he won't be able to enage with Mary on the level which actually challenges the way she sees herself. Lacking that, he's just an amusing foil for banter, and not emotionally satisfying.

But on the Rambo front, how about a taciturn character that understands Mary very well? She might be forced to chase him around for a change, and wouldn't that be interesting.

I agree that Marshall seems to be the best for her. I think that he definitely understands her--remember the scene between him and Stan in episode one when they're discussing a birthday present for Mary?

Thank you Amski. Exactly what I meant.

No problem amigo, seen people arguing on forums too many times over something trivial so thought I'd try and diffuse it before it started. Look at me the big peacekeeper lol.

I thought something yesterday and it made me giggle. Not that I think they ever would but, if Mary was to marry Marshall, she'd be Mary Mann aka Mrs Mann...Scary Movie anybody?!

I dunno, I could see her keeping her maiden name.

In the midst of all this conjecturing about an M&M hook-up, there is still the specter of Raphael. Not for nothing was Mary pushing her car through a railroad crossing in the front of an oncoming train trying to get to Ralph at the airport. When Ralph returns (I'm guessing he WILL return since that storyline also has been left hanging.) what is she going to do, take one look at him and say, "what was I thinking—what did I ever see in him"?

Now that Marshall, on the point of dying, has almost, nearly, maybe, perhaps, seems like, possibly, more or less declared his whatever for Mary, having Raphael back in her life may be a pill that he finds a little more difficult to swallow than before???

Hmm, I have been ignoring Raph. Her revelation in "Never the Bride," while well meaning, is sure to be functionally short lived. The question is whether M/R and M/M over lap at all. Mary makes a clear distinction between work relationships and personal relationships, mainly by bullying the former and ignoring emotional attachment in the latter. Her 'my only friend' admission may have her pondering obligation and committment, especially given spoilers. Then it's just - is he the man for her right now?

I don't know if anything much has actually changed for Marshall. His entire approach to Mary is along the lines of acceptance about who she is and what she's willing to give him. The the fact that they had a fight and a bit of a heart to heart conversation changes nothing for their relationship, especially from Marshall's pov. Though now that I think of it I can see that as an opening for more M&M UST, which is the only reason I can figure for them pushing the ship so hard so early. And given the nature of mostly episodic tv, it'll probably be a slight build up to what? His own relationship?

It's interesting that Mary said Marshall is her only friend, when she seems to view Raph as a friend with benefits. She did say that he wasn't her boyfriend, so what else would he be?

Something specific that even cable won't say unless it's Showtime. But no, "friend" would not be the word, although "benefits" maybe. I think the ABCChannel went with "Fun buddy" on Greek.

Tehe!

In this case I really think Mary (re Marshall) is referencing a sort of platonic relationship that, my gosh, feels all personal and dependable, without the 'just sex' excuses. In contrast, her relationship with Raph revolves around a physical excuse. In the end it might just be a little bit of a lack of background before the writers brought out the big emotional guns, because I can see Mary telling a lot of personal information to Raph under the guise of 'random crap from my day.' Which maybe she undervalues. And we haven't seen the deep 'friend' conversations with Marshall yet.

Oh gosh, it is a thought though, isn't it? Are Mary and Raph friends? They might be, and I'm sure Raph thinks Mary's his friend. Though I don't think Mary has noticed.

Doesn't one of them call him her friend in the pilot episode? I think she does, actually. When her sister's like "Who is this guy?"

And, haha, I like "fun buddies"!

I don't know how I missed this before, but yes please! I know that they probably can't drag him off Chuck - and I think he's beyond hilarious there, and SO PERFECT FOR THE ROLE - but given his bad-guy even as good-guy persona that he seems to work for his career, I think he would be fantastic matched against Mary. The man's comic timing is definitely on par with McCormack's, and I'd like to see how Marshall would handle such a persona as well.

I could be wrong, but I got the distinct impression that Raphael's final plotline was because he was being written out of the show, and the oncoming train was dramatic tension and a metaphor from the writers for "yeah, that's where it would have gone."

I don't see Raphael coming back. It's a bummer, honestly, because I would rather see the cast trimmed some other way (Jinx and Brandy, unless they quickly go somewhere truly awesome with them.) Again, I'll wait and see. Since the advent of television on DVD, I've learned to sit back and watch an entire season before drawing any absolute opinions. This is just how I feel right now.