Full Version: No More Goren
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
I strongly disagree with you. No offense or anything, I just do.
LOL!
You will be very very lonely on this board. Noth's episodes have fewer watchers than the D'onofrio episodes overall, so I think most of America disagrees with you too.
You will be very very lonely on this board. Noth's episodes have fewer watchers than the D'onofrio episodes overall, so I think most of America disagrees with you too.
Hi Bubba here, welcome to the forum. I think you will be better on the SVU forum.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 08:34 PM) 
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
Welcome laofan82. Your thoughts are certainly interesting and guaranteed to stimulate discussion. Being new, I'm sure you were just so excited to join in the fun of discussing our favorite show that you probably didn't notice that there are several threads that your comments would have fit in quite nicely without having to start a brand new thread that would simply be redundant. For instance there is the Favorite Logan episodes, since you seem to like him the best. There are also threads dedicated to Wheeler, Eames (in fact there are several threads for Kathryn Erbe), Ross, Favorite Episodes, Worst Episodes, and of course each episode this season has its own thread, so you might want to check out the ones that featured Logan/Falaaci or Logan/Wheeler. And if you have an opinion about whether or not Goren and Eames have or ever will have romantic feelings for one another, there is a Shippers subforum for all that discussion. Of course there are quite a few threads dedicated to Goren and/or Vincent D'Onofrio, and you might not care for those threads since he seems not to be your favorite actor. So feel free to jump in and enjoy any and all discussions, since this forum is just full of fans who are addicted to the best show on TV today!
Once again--Welcome!
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 11:34 PM)
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
There are some buttons on your remote that you can use when you don't like the show that's on, for example a Goren ep of LOCI. You can actually arrow up OR down and select OTHER channels.
QUOTE (spookycc @ Jun 18 2008, 09:35 PM)
There are some buttons on your remote that you can use when you don't like the show that's on, for example a Goren ep of LOCI. You can actually arrow up OR down and select OTHER channels.
No way! ::runs to look at remote control, pushes up and down arrow buttons:: Well, wouldja look at that?! I always wondered what those buttons did. Its like magic.
That's what I love about this forum--its fun and educational, too! Thanks Spook!
QUOTE (ciaddict @ Jun 19 2008, 12:48 AM)
No way! ::runs to look at remote control, pushes up and down arrow buttons:: Well, wouldja look at that?! I always wondered what those buttons did. Its like magic.
That's what I love about this forum--its fun and educational, too! Thanks Spook!
That's what I love about this forum--its fun and educational, too! Thanks Spook!
::snickers::
Hey, you're welcome, ciaddict! I'm a virtual plethora (sp?) of information!
QUOTE (bananas123 @ Jun 18 2008, 11:49 PM)
I strongly disagree with you. No offense or anything, I just do.
I LOVE your sig pix, bananas!
I do appreciate the replies on this thread, especially that people can disagree without attacking people, which is so common in life. I must say in reponse to posting in the SVU forum, that I chose to do so here becuase I feel so strongly about L&O and this show specifically. I see such potential for this series, to carry on the legacy of the original and SVU, with it's own characters and plots, themes, etc. I will say the changing the channel reponse was lame, I obviously took the time to write this for a reason. I think the Law & Order series are the best programs on TV, and one of only 2 or 3 shows I will actually turn on a television to watch. I'm happy to change the channel when the Goren episodes are on, however I want to spark a debate on this topic which to me is the only important discussion about this series, in my opinion of course. I wanted to see how many others here agree, or if not why. You have to admit this series is much different than SVU and the original. And truthfully, I hope there's enough people who feel the same way to help mayble make the topic of this thread a reality, which is why I did not simply reply in an unrelated topic. I'll say again, in my opinion, Goren is simply unbearable. He drags the whole cast down as they serve only to sit dumbly in awe to his amazing abilities. It destroys any attempt at developing a strong cast, and he honestly just creeps me out. Guess we'll see if i'm the only one here with that opinion though...
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 10:19 PM)
I do appreciate the replies on this thread, especially that people can disagree without attacking people, which is so common in life. I must say in reponse to posting in the SVU forum, that I chose to do so here becuase I feel so strongly about L&O and this show specifically. I see such potential for this series, to carry on the legacy of the original and SVU, with it's own characters and plots, themes, etc. I will say the changing the channel reponse was lame, I obviously took the time to write this for a reason. I think the Law & Order series are the best programs on TV, and one of only 2 or 3 shows I will actually turn on a television to watch. I'm happy to change the channel when the Goren episodes are on, however I want to spark a debate on this topic which to me is the only important discussion about this series, in my opinion of course. I wanted to see how many others here agree, or if not why. You have to admit this series is much different than SVU and the original. And truthfully, I hope there's enough people who feel the same way to help mayble make the topic of this thread a reality, which is why I did not simply reply in an unrelated topic. I'll say again, in my opinion, Goren is simply unbearable. He drags the whole cast down as they serve only to sit dumbly in awe to his amazing abilities. It destroys any attempt at developing a strong cast, and he honestly just creeps me out. Guess we'll see if i'm the only one here with that opinion though...
I can tell you that my mother certainly agrees with you. And I certainly don't. And lucky for me, neither did Dick Wolf and Rene Balcer 7 years ago when they created this show around this character and then found the most perfect actor to play him. Yes, the show is different from the original and from SVU. But then SVU is quite different from the original. Personally, as a fan of the original, I'm glad they didn't just recycle it with 2 different casts. Instead they have 3 individual shows that are all brilliant--in my opinion.
I just wonder what kind of discussion you thought you would generate by coming to a forum that is full of people who obviously love the show and say that you hate it. OK, here's the discussion. I disagree. I think the show is the best-written, best-acted show on TV. L&O and SVU are close seconds in my book. Since the show is in its 7th season, I'm guessing that Vincent D'Onofrio and Bobby Goren are safe. I'm very happy that NBC sent the show to USA. USA has given it the attention and promotion that it has deserved, but sadly did not recieve from NBC.
And, just for the record, I thought the changing channels response was hilarious. I used to watch Grey's Anatomy and now I can't stand it. But I don't waste my time going to the Grey's Anatomy forum and bashing that show. The fans of that show are more than welcome to post all the love they want. I don't have the time or energy to be concerned about all the shows I dislike, or that I sort of like but wish were better. I'm having way too much fun hanging out here, sharing the love of Vincent, Chris, Kathryn, Julianne, Eric, and all things LOCI!
Again, welcome to the board.
Welcome to the boards. I hope you'll stick around and play with us. I fear you are sadly in the minority about getting rid of VDO/Goren and making the show all about Noth/Logan. The original intent was to show the profile of the criminal and watch a detective solve really high-profile crimes ala Sherlock Holmes and/or Columbo. So, while you raise an interesting point, sadly, I too must disagree and am looking forward to many more episodes of LOCI with Goren.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 19 2008, 01:19 AM)
I do appreciate the replies on this thread, especially that people can disagree without attacking people, which is so common in life. I must say in reponse to posting in the SVU forum, that I chose to do so here becuase I feel so strongly about L&O and this show specifically. I see such potential for this series, to carry on the legacy of the original and SVU, with it's own characters and plots, themes, etc. I will say the changing the channel reponse was lame, I obviously took the time to write this for a reason. I think the Law & Order series are the best programs on TV, and one of only 2 or 3 shows I will actually turn on a television to watch. I'm happy to change the channel when the Goren episodes are on, however I want to spark a debate on this topic which to me is the only important discussion about this series, in my opinion of course. I wanted to see how many others here agree, or if not why. You have to admit this series is much different than SVU and the original. And truthfully, I hope there's enough people who feel the same way to help mayble make the topic of this thread a reality, which is why I did not simply reply in an unrelated topic. I'll say again, in my opinion, Goren is simply unbearable. He drags the whole cast down as they serve only to sit dumbly in awe to his amazing abilities. It destroys any attempt at developing a strong cast, and he honestly just creeps me out. Guess we'll see if i'm the only one here with that opinion though...
Are your comments meant to be inflammatory? You said its nice to have an opinion and not to be attacked for it, yet you wrote an extremely negative post on a forum that is extremely pro-Goren. I like to think of myself as an optimistic person, and therefore, do not submit myself to shows I don't like just to spark debate. Its too negative for me. Who knows, maybe if you stick around and read everyone else's posts, we will persuade you differently. OTherwise, I would stick to what I like.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 19 2008, 12:19 AM)
I do appreciate the replies on this thread, especially that people can disagree without attacking people, which is so common in life. I must say in reponse to posting in the SVU forum, that I chose to do so here becuase I feel so strongly about L&O and this show specifically. I see such potential for this series, to carry on the legacy of the original and SVU, with it's own characters and plots, themes, etc. I will say the changing the channel reponse was lame, I obviously took the time to write this for a reason. I think the Law & Order series are the best programs on TV, and one of only 2 or 3 shows I will actually turn on a television to watch. I'm happy to change the channel when the Goren episodes are on, however I want to spark a debate on this topic which to me is the only important discussion about this series, in my opinion of course. I wanted to see how many others here agree, or if not why. You have to admit this series is much different than SVU and the original. And truthfully, I hope there's enough people who feel the same way to help mayble make the topic of this thread a reality, which is why I did not simply reply in an unrelated topic. I'll say again, in my opinion, Goren is simply unbearable. He drags the whole cast down as they serve only to sit dumbly in awe to his amazing abilities. It destroys any attempt at developing a strong cast, and he honestly just creeps me out. Guess we'll see if i'm the only one here with that opinion though...
You have a right to your opinion but I'll have to say I can hardly contain myself. My inclination is to say nasty things to you. In my opinion and just about everyone else on this board the show would be nothing without Goren. This show is much more mentally stimulating than the others, especially svu. they do the same sexual perversions over and over and it gets very tiresome. Chis Noth is adequate as an actor but Vincent D'Onofrio is outstanding. I don't mean to say anything against Chris Noth. He has a straitline character to play and he does it well. We are grateful to him for taking some of the pressure off of Vincent.
I don't think your remarks were to create stimulating conversation. I think they were meant to be inflammatory. In that respect you have succeeded.
My recomendation here is that after we have all had our say in defense of one of our very favorite shows and our favorite actors, we ignore you and let you fall off of page 4 and just go away.
You don't by any chance go by other names such as morganfree or tornheartedworld do you.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 19 2008, 01:19 AM)
I do appreciate the replies on this thread, especially that people can disagree without attacking people, which is so common in life. I must say in reponse to posting in the SVU forum, that I chose to do so here becuase I feel so strongly about L&O and this show specifically. I see such potential for this series, to carry on the legacy of the original and SVU, with it's own characters and plots, themes, etc. I will say the changing the channel reponse was lame, I obviously took the time to write this for a reason. I think the Law & Order series are the best programs on TV, and one of only 2 or 3 shows I will actually turn on a television to watch. I'm happy to change the channel when the Goren episodes are on, however I want to spark a debate on this topic which to me is the only important discussion about this series, in my opinion of course. I wanted to see how many others here agree, or if not why. You have to admit this series is much different than SVU and the original. And truthfully, I hope there's enough people who feel the same way to help mayble make the topic of this thread a reality, which is why I did not simply reply in an unrelated topic. I'll say again, in my opinion, Goren is simply unbearable. He drags the whole cast down as they serve only to sit dumbly in awe to his amazing abilities. It destroys any attempt at developing a strong cast, and he honestly just creeps me out. Guess we'll see if i'm the only one here with that opinion though...
::spook limps away, sadly lame::
LOCI was written to revolve around the character of Goren, so I don't forsee any immediate departure of the star character. There are a LOT more people who don't enjoy the Logan character, and I used to be one of those, before I learned from the Loganites here to appreciate him for the cop's cop that he is, and also to appreciate Chris Noth for coming in to help out when VDO was too exhausted to continue carrying with show with just Kate and the supporting cast. LOCI has always been more about the Law and less about the Order, and unlike SVU, they don't have an ensemble cast to carry some of the weight.
As to the other characters sitting in dumb awe of Goren, Captain Ross certainly does not do that. I think he's only now coming to appreciate the unique talents his "problem child" has. He has treated him, in the past, with ANYTHING but "awe". He shouldn't BE in awe, right, but I like it when he's civil to Goren, at least, like he is to Logan. I think Ross doesn't quite "get" Goren yet, but hopefully he'll learn to understand him.
I read this topic and 'walked away' but then had to come back. We are all entitled to our own opinions and heaven knows that mine have gotten me into trouble more often than not. However, I have to agree with the other ladies here.
This is a very VDO/Goren friendly place. Why would you chose to watch a program/actor that you find distasteful? I happen to watch very little television rather than subject myself to something that I don't like. LOCI is the one show I cannot miss.
LOCI was originally designed as "the Goren Show". Dick Wolf was ecstatic when Vincent D'Onofrio agreed to play Goren. I will also admit that at first I did not watch the show, Goren was not my cup of tea either. However, after watching a few episodes, the concept of the show, Goren the character and Vincent D'Onofrio the actor grew on me. I am a devoted fan of the show and have made that opinion crystal clear more than once.
Is it possible that the fact that you dislike Goren proof of the fact the Vincent D'Onofrio is an amazing talent? I would say yes. Please give credit where credit is due. The man is a phenomenal actor.
While I respect your right to voice your opinion, I would hope that you realize it is not a popular one here and hope that you did not post in the hopes of causing an uproar. The folks here are right - maybe this isn't the place for you - or, maybe you can read our views and find that the man will grow on you. As he's said, he is an acquired taste.
This is a very VDO/Goren friendly place. Why would you chose to watch a program/actor that you find distasteful? I happen to watch very little television rather than subject myself to something that I don't like. LOCI is the one show I cannot miss.
LOCI was originally designed as "the Goren Show". Dick Wolf was ecstatic when Vincent D'Onofrio agreed to play Goren. I will also admit that at first I did not watch the show, Goren was not my cup of tea either. However, after watching a few episodes, the concept of the show, Goren the character and Vincent D'Onofrio the actor grew on me. I am a devoted fan of the show and have made that opinion crystal clear more than once.
Is it possible that the fact that you dislike Goren proof of the fact the Vincent D'Onofrio is an amazing talent? I would say yes. Please give credit where credit is due. The man is a phenomenal actor.
While I respect your right to voice your opinion, I would hope that you realize it is not a popular one here and hope that you did not post in the hopes of causing an uproar. The folks here are right - maybe this isn't the place for you - or, maybe you can read our views and find that the man will grow on you. As he's said, he is an acquired taste.
QUOTE (Judyg @ Jun 19 2008, 07:44 AM)
I read this topic and 'walked away' but then had to come back. We are all entitled to our own opinions and heaven knows that mine have gotten me into trouble more often than not. However, I have to agree with the other ladies here.
This is a very VDO/Goren friendly place. Why would you chose to watch a program/actor that you find distasteful? I happen to watch very little television rather than subject myself to something that I don't like. LOCI is the one show I cannot miss.
LOCI was originally designed as "the Goren Show". Dick Wolf was ecstatic when Vincent D'Onofrio agreed to play Goren. I will also admit that at first I did not watch the show, Goren was not my cup of tea either. However, after watching a few episodes, the concept of the show, Goren the character and Vincent D'Onofrio the actor grew on me. I am a devoted fan of the show and have made that opinion crystal clear more than once.
Is it possible that the fact that you dislike Goren proof of the fact the Vincent D'Onofrio is an amazing talent? I would say yes. Please give credit where credit is due. The man is a phenomenal actor.
While I respect your right to voice your opinion, I would hope that you realize it is not a popular one here and hope that you did not post in the hopes of causing an uproar. The folks here are right - maybe this isn't the place for you - or, maybe you can read our views and find that the man will grow on you. As he's said, he is an acquired taste.
This is a very VDO/Goren friendly place. Why would you chose to watch a program/actor that you find distasteful? I happen to watch very little television rather than subject myself to something that I don't like. LOCI is the one show I cannot miss.
LOCI was originally designed as "the Goren Show". Dick Wolf was ecstatic when Vincent D'Onofrio agreed to play Goren. I will also admit that at first I did not watch the show, Goren was not my cup of tea either. However, after watching a few episodes, the concept of the show, Goren the character and Vincent D'Onofrio the actor grew on me. I am a devoted fan of the show and have made that opinion crystal clear more than once.
Is it possible that the fact that you dislike Goren proof of the fact the Vincent D'Onofrio is an amazing talent? I would say yes. Please give credit where credit is due. The man is a phenomenal actor.
While I respect your right to voice your opinion, I would hope that you realize it is not a popular one here and hope that you did not post in the hopes of causing an uproar. The folks here are right - maybe this isn't the place for you - or, maybe you can read our views and find that the man will grow on you. As he's said, he is an acquired taste.
Judy? You like Goren?? I would have never guessed that!
QUOTE (Quaxo @ Jun 19 2008, 12:56 AM)
LOL!
You will be very very lonely on this board. Noth's episodes have fewer watchers than the D'onofrio episodes overall, so I think most of America disagrees with you too.
You will be very very lonely on this board. Noth's episodes have fewer watchers than the D'onofrio episodes overall, so I think most of America disagrees with you too.
HA!! that's a lie. I totally agree with this nomad who's wondering around just wanting the completly mental, completely insane, and just wanting himself dead, Goren (Ok that's an egasgeration) (SP I know) He's too mental. Look at how he looked in puragatory he was depressed, (To me it looked like he was going to commit sucide by whiskey)
I agree we need Goren gone...
To those who want Goren gone--you have every right not to like the character. But I have to ask--why do you watch the show? I don't watch SVU because I'm not fond of the character of Elliott Stabler. I know many people who like Stabler, and that's fine by me. I don't have any desire to go to SVU forums and denounce the character.
Patcat
Patcat
QUOTE (Patcat @ Jun 19 2008, 09:57 AM)
To those who want Goren gone--you have every right not to like the character. But I have to ask--why do you watch the show? I don't watch SVU because I'm not fond of the character of Elliott Stabler. I know many people who like Stabler, and that's fine by me. I don't have any desire to go to SVU forums and denounce the character.
Patcat
Patcat
You know I think I'd watch SVU more if I saw more of Belzer, Ice-T and Florek's characters. I love those guys and the characters they play fascinate me. But SVU is based more on Meloni and Hargitay's characters who I find kind of boring so I don't watch SVU as much as I might.
Everyone's entitled to their opinions...I've liked Goren from Day One and I also liked Logan when he was on the mothership. I watch both kinds of CI episodes, enjoy both actors performances as Logan and Goren (for different reasons). If either actor left I'd miss them, if both of them left at the same time it would be really hard to go on watching CI because I think both characters have become so pivotal to the show. But I don't really have strong feelings about needing to convince someone who thinks differently on CI otherwise.
Back to the actor negotiation saltmines for me for now...
The Vault
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 19 2008, 12:04 AM)
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
Welcome to the board. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I totally disagree with your point of view.
Your complaint is that the Goren/Eames episodes of LOCI are not like the Logan episodes or the other shows in the Law and Order franchise. IMHO that's great, because they were never intended to be. You obviously prefer "standard" police procedurals. What you are advocating goes against the whole premise on which LOCI was originally based. LOCI was developed as a "whydoneit" as opposed to a "whodoneit" like other police procedurals. To accommodate this unique twist on a police procedural, a different type of detective was required ... a Sherlock Holmes type character. This "superdetective" with "a deep understanding of human nature" was always intended to be the main focus of the series. The vision could not be achieved any other way. The "quirkiness" was added for entertainment value. They had immense good fortune when they attracted Vincent D'Onofrio to the role. To my mind, the real pity here is that the workload involved in maintaining the vision was too much for one individual, resulting in the split episodes. It is my opinion also that this show still survives due to the dedicated fan base for the original vision and the awesome talent of Vincent D'Onofrio in bringing the Goren character to life. While the Logan episodes are indeed OK (no negative reflection on Chris intended because I like him and his character), I believe much of their viewership are fans dedicated to the original concept like me who make it a point to watch all the Logan episodes to avoid any significant rating drops for the series. We are on a mission to keep Detective Goren right where he is for as long as possible. If that entails totally supporting the Logan episodes, so be it.
In that regard, I certainly thank you for watching the Logan episodes. Please encourage all your family and friends to do so as well.
QUOTE (TennesseeCIFan @ Jun 19 2008, 08:49 AM)
Judy? You like Goren?? I would have never guessed that!
I know, TCIF, I'm such a quiet wallflower when it come to my feelings about Goren. I'm really trying to work through them though and be more outspoken!
QUOTE (VDOVault @ Jun 19 2008, 10:08 AM)
You know I think I'd watch SVU more if I saw more of Belzer, Ice-T and Florek's characters. I love those guys and the characters they play fascinate me. But SVU is based more on Meloni and Hargitay's characters who I find kind of boring so I don't watch SVU as much as I might.
Everyone's entitled to their opinions...I've liked Goren from Day One and I also liked Logan when he was on the mothership. I watch both kinds of CI episodes, enjoy both actors performances as Logan and Goren (for different reasons). If either actor left I'd miss them, if both of them left at the same time it would be really hard to go on watching CI because I think both characters have become so pivotal to the show. But I don't really have strong feelings about needing to convince someone who thinks differently on CI otherwise.
Back to the actor negotiation saltmines for me for now...
The Vault
Everyone's entitled to their opinions...I've liked Goren from Day One and I also liked Logan when he was on the mothership. I watch both kinds of CI episodes, enjoy both actors performances as Logan and Goren (for different reasons). If either actor left I'd miss them, if both of them left at the same time it would be really hard to go on watching CI because I think both characters have become so pivotal to the show. But I don't really have strong feelings about needing to convince someone who thinks differently on CI otherwise.
Back to the actor negotiation saltmines for me for now...
The Vault
I wholeheartedly agree, Vault. I watch SVU eps simply for the IceT and Belzer moments. Fin is my favorite character on that particular show. I loved Logan on the mothership and have reacquired my appreciation for him recently.
LOCI works because of the characters on so many levels - no one is forced to watch the show. It's a matter of choice and based on ratings alone, I think it's obvious how popular Goren and company are.
QUOTE (Patcat @ Jun 19 2008, 09:57 AM)
To those who want Goren gone--you have every right not to like the character. But I have to ask--why do you watch the show? I don't watch SVU because I'm not fond of the character of Elliott Stabler. I know many people who like Stabler, and that's fine by me. I don't have any desire to go to SVU forums and denounce the character.
Patcat
Patcat
What? You don't like Stabler?
::spook slaps Patcat silly::
Well i agree with you all on this we all cannot like or love the same person etc programmes as well but as we have found out from this member so what if she does not like Goren then thats upto her providi ng she keeps all of her opinions to herself, because i can much say that i am not a lover of SVU but i will watch it much the same about the other ones as well I thought that these forums where about of what you like or you like so yes if she still stays a member then she is going to lose alot of friends on the Goren site so yes i agree she would be better off going else where
QUOTE (morganfree @ Jun 19 2008, 09:24 AM)
HA!! that's a lie. I totally agree with this nomad who's wondering around just wanting the completly mental, completely insane, and just wanting himself dead, Goren (Ok that's an egasgeration) (SP I know) He's too mental. Look at how he looked in puragatory he was depressed, (To me it looked like he was going to commit sucide by whiskey)
I agree we need Goren gone...
I agree we need Goren gone...
I don't think you understand the character.
QUOTE (Judyg @ Jun 19 2008, 09:22 AM)
I know, TCIF, I'm such a quiet wallflower when it come to my feelings about Goren. I'm really trying to work through them though and be more outspoken!
I wholeheartedly agree, Vault. I watch SVU eps simply for the IceT and Belzer moments. Fin is my favorite character on that particular show. I loved Logan on the mothership and have reacquired my appreciation for him recently.
LOCI works because of the characters on so many levels - no one is forced to watch the show. It's a matter of choice and based on ratings alone, I think it's obvious how popular Goren and company are.
I wholeheartedly agree, Vault. I watch SVU eps simply for the IceT and Belzer moments. Fin is my favorite character on that particular show. I loved Logan on the mothership and have reacquired my appreciation for him recently.
LOCI works because of the characters on so many levels - no one is forced to watch the show. It's a matter of choice and based on ratings alone, I think it's obvious how popular Goren and company are.
I am going to try and make this my last post on this thread. I do find it inflamatory and even depressing . I feel like I am going through some kind of home invasion. I just hope it dies soon but I just had to tell you and vault how much I agree with you where Richard Belzer and Ice T are concerned. I think they are superb and would watch svu more if they were featured more.
Well. This thread is certainly a whole new can of worms. Never before has a new poster been "welcomed" by so many.
I love Goren. (I know, another shocker.) I really, really love VDO. (Again, surprise, surprise.) I don't much care for Eames or Erbe, but not because of the way Goren treats her. I've only seen him treat her with respect, and demand from others that she be treated respectfully. From his pov, they have "complimentary talents." So I'm not really sure where the comment about him treating her like a puppy comes from.
As for Goren himself...some people really are incredibly intelligent and insightful. Being a detective is his calling and he's damn good at it. And yes, he's very smart, but he also doesn't seem to be particulary good at math, or at some practical things, like taking care of himself. He has a lot of quirks and quarks, also typical of someone of near-genius level intelligence. He has a soft, gentle voice and manner, unless he's agitated, and then his voice can rise a surprising degree of octaves. He's caring and dedicated and can be quite funny. Many people, myself included, find VDO very physically attractive. I also certainly find his innovations as an actor fascinating. I remember watching the first season of CI on dvd, and listening to Dick Wolf talk about the first time they brought VDO for a screen test, where they just put VDO in front of a camera and tried to decide the best ways to dress the character and that kind of thing; Wolf said that his charisma was such that even just sitting still for the camera, people who were walking by and didn't know him or anything about the show would stop and stare because he had such a presence. In a positive way.
Goren was a caregiver of his mentally ill (and occasionally abusive) mother, had a rough childhood, a deadbeat brother, a nephew he tried to help--in other words, a hell of a backstory. He's a larger than life character, very unusual in a sea of copycats.
That's why I like the character and the actor. You haven't really given any reasons why you feel the way you do. Would you care to elaborate?
I love Goren. (I know, another shocker.) I really, really love VDO. (Again, surprise, surprise.) I don't much care for Eames or Erbe, but not because of the way Goren treats her. I've only seen him treat her with respect, and demand from others that she be treated respectfully. From his pov, they have "complimentary talents." So I'm not really sure where the comment about him treating her like a puppy comes from.
As for Goren himself...some people really are incredibly intelligent and insightful. Being a detective is his calling and he's damn good at it. And yes, he's very smart, but he also doesn't seem to be particulary good at math, or at some practical things, like taking care of himself. He has a lot of quirks and quarks, also typical of someone of near-genius level intelligence. He has a soft, gentle voice and manner, unless he's agitated, and then his voice can rise a surprising degree of octaves. He's caring and dedicated and can be quite funny. Many people, myself included, find VDO very physically attractive. I also certainly find his innovations as an actor fascinating. I remember watching the first season of CI on dvd, and listening to Dick Wolf talk about the first time they brought VDO for a screen test, where they just put VDO in front of a camera and tried to decide the best ways to dress the character and that kind of thing; Wolf said that his charisma was such that even just sitting still for the camera, people who were walking by and didn't know him or anything about the show would stop and stare because he had such a presence. In a positive way.
Goren was a caregiver of his mentally ill (and occasionally abusive) mother, had a rough childhood, a deadbeat brother, a nephew he tried to help--in other words, a hell of a backstory. He's a larger than life character, very unusual in a sea of copycats.
That's why I like the character and the actor. You haven't really given any reasons why you feel the way you do. Would you care to elaborate?
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 19 2008, 10:59 AM)
I don't think you understand the character.
I don't think s/he does either, and I think s/he spells like MF and the gang of one.
QUOTE (goin4goren @ Jun 19 2008, 08:40 AM)
I don't think s/he does either, and I think s/he spells like MF and the gang of one.
I'm someone who often has unpopular opinions too. I disagree with the "No More Goren" opinion, but really,there's room for everyone, no need to insult any poster.
QUOTE (goin4goren @ Jun 19 2008, 08:40 AM)
I don't think s/he does either, and I think s/he spells like MF and the gang of one.
Yes, I am always on the lookout for another personality to pop up so I thought maybe this was another one. But I thought the spelling and grammar seemed much better than the MF gang. So I'm not sure this is another manifestation. But I could be wrong. Happens once in a while. Not often, but once in a while.
Well, loafan, if it was discussion you wanted, you got it. We are now on the second page. I usually cringe whenever I see a negative thread about one of my beloved characters show up. I also cringe when I see yet another VDO/Goren thread show up--I mean, how many do we need?! But you have given us yet another opportunity to express our love for him, so maybe it's a good thing.
First I just have to say LOL at this bananas. Very funny! Thank you for the laugh.Welcome laofan82. I will humbly admit that I didn't care much for Goren the first couple of times I watched CI. No stone throwing guys please!!!! But he quickly became my favorite tv character possibly of all time. His quirks make him entertaining and unique. What once grossed me out... Goren tasting dried up boat caulking, prodding the eyeballs of a dead man... now make me laugh and shake my head thinking that's our Bobby. His empathy for the victims and sometimes the perps and the way he interacts with kids makes me sigh and think aww, that's our Bobby. He's so sweet. Knowing just what buttons to push and tag teaming with Eames to get to the truth is always entertaining. Anyway, I love Goren (and Eames). As he told Eames he is an acquired taste. He's not for everyone. Maybe you should just stick with Logan episodes.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 11:34 PM)
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
I couldn't disagree with you more, but welcome. To me, attacking VDO (or disliking him or Robert) gets the hair on my neck up and my claws out....I will protect him vehemently. While you are entitled to your opinion about VDO, Kathryn, their characters, and the show, I will exercise tolerance and respectfully decline any further discussion on the subjects. We'll just have to find other things to talk about...
QUOTE (goin4goren @ Jun 19 2008, 11:40 AM)
I don't think s/he does either, and I think s/he spells like MF and the gang of one.
QUOTE (Gatepromise @ Jun 19 2008, 11:48 AM)
I'm someone who often has unpopular opinions too. I disagree with the "No More Goren" opinion, but really,there's room for everyone, no need to insult any poster.
QUOTE (ciaddict @ Jun 19 2008, 11:51 AM)
Yes, I am always on the lookout for another personality to pop up so I thought maybe this was another one. But I thought the spelling and grammar seemed much better than the MF gang. So I'm not sure this is another manifestation. But I could be wrong. Happens once in a while. Not often, but once in a while.
Well, loafan, if it was discussion you wanted, you got it. We are now on the second page. I usually cringe whenever I see a negative thread about one of my beloved characters show up. I also cringe when I see yet another VDO/Goren thread show up--I mean, how many do we need?! But you have given us yet another opportunity to express our love for him, so maybe it's a good thing.
Well, loafan, if it was discussion you wanted, you got it. We are now on the second page. I usually cringe whenever I see a negative thread about one of my beloved characters show up. I also cringe when I see yet another VDO/Goren thread show up--I mean, how many do we need?! But you have given us yet another opportunity to express our love for him, so maybe it's a good thing.
First some clarification: Cluck was responding to MorganFree's post, not to laofan's. I don't think laofan is another MF name, so we can let that one drop right now.
Also let's be clear that laofan has stated they are not a GOREN fan, not that they don't like LOCI as a whole.
Well let me add another welcome in addition to the others you've gotten laofan.
Being the holder of an unpopular opinion can be tough work, but everyone is allowed to theirs.
I love Goren. I watched the show at first because I liked the original, and CI was on at 11pm on a Sunday when I was stuck at my Mom's house. After a couple of episodes, I liked it better than the original. And it was switching between Goren & Logan too. I was happy to see Logan back in action as well. When I got my satellite last year, I started watching again. After a few episodes, I liked Goren a great deal. His mental ninja skills were awesome to me. To crawl into someone's head and pick up exactly the things to do or say to get the exact reaction you want... It's amazing. The character is not for everyone. To me he's interesting because, well honestly, I'm a smarty-pants too. I wouldn't say I'm Goren level smart, but definitely above average. I also love to know what makes people tick, why they do certain things. In other words I relate.
I don't think he keeps Eames as just a sidekick either. He values her input and the way she keeps him focused. He has always shown a great amount of respect for her, and demands others show it as well. He has never been shown trying to grab credit for the work he's done, or going after praise. When they're presenting their findings to the captain or the DA he almost always used "we" instead of "I" as they explained what they had found. G/E are completely a team.
I love Logan. I love his humor, and the way he deadpans. I like his style of investigating and interrogating. He's charming and smooth. He's a hothead and doesn't put up with crap. To many people he can come off a complete a$$ but he's still a do-right man at his core. Part of Logan's personality is his interaction with his partners too. Wheeler I think has been the best of the bunch, with Falacci running a close second. I liked Barek, but he really shines with Wheeler. I've always been just as eager for his episodes to come on as for Goren's.
In any case, I have to say that I don't think Goren will be going anywhere anytime soon, and we thank you for watching the Logan eps. There are many fans that don't and we need to keep the ratings strong across the board.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 10:34 PM)
It's no wonder why NBC sold this show to USA, it is has been a failure compared to the amazingly popular Law and Order series. I love Law & Order and Law & Order SVU, I've been watching since the first season many many years ago, I've seen every episode of each, many more than a few times. CI is unwatchable however, and it's for one reason, Detective Goren. His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good, but I can only watch when Chris Noth is on, who I enjoy, or honestly any other character. Everyone I know who loves the L&O series agrees too, I can't understand why the networks have not figured this out and fired D'Onofrio. The Eames character is almost equally annoying, but only because of how her character is treated by Goren. Like a little puppy who follows him around and just exists to tell him how smart he is. I actually feel sad for Erbe, this is a truly pathetic role she plays, and she should stand up for herself and demand to be taken seriously. I just wish USA will wake-up and transition the show to Chris Noth, they will see the ratings skyrocket. I know many people who TiVo the show only when they see his name in the credits. So sad that a show with such potential loses millions of fans due to one character.
Just want to say, Ratings don't support your quote, Ratings are higher for Goren episodes than for Logan episodes.
Well Well Well didn't some people get up on the wrong side of the bed today. Iaofan82, you amaze me, why on earth would you bother to join a fan based board like this if you feel so negatively about the star of the show? Opinions are fine, but you border on the rude, you obviously wanted attention and by God you got it, well as far as I'm concerned your five minutes are up, ( no pun intended). I urge all members to stop answering this negative twits comments, they are a waste of time. As for morganfree, you as well are not only wrong you and the twit should go to the SVU board I'm sure there are any number of like minded people there that will enjoy your nonsense. If you don't like my advice you know where you can put it!!!!!! Goren Forever, Twits Never.
I've been lurking here and there, and when I read this post, I felt compelled to reply. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and respectfully so. I, myself, cannot watch SVU because I absolutely cannot stand the character of Olivia Benson. Few people know that, however, because I did not meander over to the SVU boards to announce it to the world. I do watch SVU from time to time because I do like Stabler and, particularly, Fin and Munch. Anyway, I don't watch much television, but I never miss Criminal Intent, and that is because of the character of Bobby Goren. Those of you who know me will not be surprised by that at all. I fell in love with Vincent D'Onofrio after Full Metal Jacket and I simply adore the man. He's a brilliant actor. And that brilliance shines particularly bright in the character of Bobby Goren. Few people I have encountered say "Meh. He's all right." when referring to the character of Goren. They either love him or hate him. What I find most amusing about the people who hate him, though, is that so many of them are compelled to tune in and watch him! The character of Goren is central to the CI series. There's no doubt about that. I have serious doubts that the series would survive without him, simply because viewership would so drastically decline. There are people who watch the Logan eps, like myself, because they like Logan. There are others who refuse to watch the Logan eps because he is not Goren. Although I was disappointed when they split the episodes because it meant less Goren, I was pleased they chose to bring Logan back. And I was grateful for it because VDO drove himself into the ground with the demands of filming nearly every scene in an hour-long series along with the film work he was doing. But I watch the series for Goren. I find his quirks and eccentricities endearing and his recent personal troubles heart-breaking. I do not find his encyclopedic knowledge any more off-putting than his genius-level intellect. My little son (who is 6) is a brilliant but quirky little guy, and he is the way I imagine little Bobby would have been before his mother got sick.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
Well said InfinityStar and ITA! WELCOME ABOARD, hope you post more!
QUOTE (InfinityStar @ Jun 19 2008, 01:09 PM)
I've been lurking here and there, and when I read this post, I felt compelled to reply. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and respectfully so. I, myself, cannot watch SVU because I absolutely cannot stand the character of Olivia Benson. Few people know that, however, because I did not meander over to the SVU boards to announce it to the world. I do watch SVU from time to time because I do like Stabler and, particularly, Fin and Munch. Anyway, I don't watch much television, but I never miss Criminal Intent, and that is because of the character of Bobby Goren. Those of you who know me will not be surprised by that at all. I fell in love with Vincent D'Onofrio after Full Metal Jacket and I simply adore the man. He's a brilliant actor. And that brilliance shines particularly bright in the character of Bobby Goren. Few people I have encountered say "Meh. He's all right." when referring to the character of Goren. They either love him or hate him. What I find most amusing about the people who hate him, though, is that so many of them are compelled to tune in and watch him! The character of Goren is central to the CI series. There's no doubt about that. I have serious doubts that the series would survive without him, simply because viewership would so drastically decline. There are people who watch the Logan eps, like myself, because they like Logan. There are others who refuse to watch the Logan eps because he is not Goren. Although I was disappointed when they split the episodes because it meant less Goren, I was pleased they chose to bring Logan back. And I was grateful for it because VDO drove himself into the ground with the demands of filming nearly every scene in an hour-long series along with the film work he was doing. But I watch the series for Goren. I find his quirks and eccentricities endearing and his recent personal troubles heart-breaking. I do not find his encyclopedic knowledge any more off-putting than his genius-level intellect. My little son (who is 6) is a brilliant but quirky little guy, and he is the way I imagine little Bobby would have been before his mother got sick.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
Welcome!! What a well written, intelligent post. I totally agree with everything you said. I too hope that you post more.
QUOTE (dramaqueen @ Jun 19 2008, 12:58 PM)
Well Well Well didn't some people get up on the wrong side of the bed today. Iaofan82, you amaze me, why on earth would you bother to join a fan based board like this if you feel so negatively about the star of the show? Opinions are fine, but you border on the rude, you obviously wanted attention and by God you got it, well as far as I'm concerned your five minutes are up, ( no pun intended). I urge all members to stop answering this negative twits comments, they are a waste of time. As for morganfree, you as well are not only wrong you and the twit should go to the SVU board I'm sure there are any number of like minded people there that will enjoy your nonsense. If you don't like my advice you know where you can put it!!!!!! Goren Forever, Twits Never.
WORD
QUOTE (InfinityStar @ Jun 19 2008, 02:09 PM)
I've been lurking here and there, and when I read this post, I felt compelled to reply. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and respectfully so. I, myself, cannot watch SVU because I absolutely cannot stand the character of Olivia Benson. Few people know that, however, because I did not meander over to the SVU boards to announce it to the world. I do watch SVU from time to time because I do like Stabler and, particularly, Fin and Munch. Anyway, I don't watch much television, but I never miss Criminal Intent, and that is because of the character of Bobby Goren. Those of you who know me will not be surprised by that at all. I fell in love with Vincent D'Onofrio after Full Metal Jacket and I simply adore the man. He's a brilliant actor. And that brilliance shines particularly bright in the character of Bobby Goren. Few people I have encountered say "Meh. He's all right." when referring to the character of Goren. They either love him or hate him. What I find most amusing about the people who hate him, though, is that so many of them are compelled to tune in and watch him! The character of Goren is central to the CI series. There's no doubt about that. I have serious doubts that the series would survive without him, simply because viewership would so drastically decline. There are people who watch the Logan eps, like myself, because they like Logan. There are others who refuse to watch the Logan eps because he is not Goren. Although I was disappointed when they split the episodes because it meant less Goren, I was pleased they chose to bring Logan back. And I was grateful for it because VDO drove himself into the ground with the demands of filming nearly every scene in an hour-long series along with the film work he was doing. But I watch the series for Goren. I find his quirks and eccentricities endearing and his recent personal troubles heart-breaking. I do not find his encyclopedic knowledge any more off-putting than his genius-level intellect. My little son (who is 6) is a brilliant but quirky little guy, and he is the way I imagine little Bobby would have been before his mother got sick.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
WORD! Well said, InfinityStar!
BTW, I LOVE your fanfiction!
QUOTE (spookycc @ Jun 19 2008, 01:51 PM)
WORD! Well said, InfinityStar!
BTW, I LOVE your fanfiction!
BTW, I LOVE your fanfiction!
Hi Spook! Have you recovered from you lameness?
QUOTE (ciaddict @ Jun 19 2008, 04:53 PM)
Hi Spook! Have you recovered from you lameness?
::snicker::
No, ciaddict, I haven't. I think it's terminal.
Paging Doc Goren!
Can we let this one DIE, I hate seeing this on the USA home page.
QUOTE (Jryan @ Jun 19 2008, 04:55 PM)
Can we let this one DIE, I hate seeing this on the USA home page.
Normally I wouldn't reply, and let it die, but when I saw the title, I knew there would be so many of us who would jump to our Bobby's defense.
I wish we could add a subtitle that explains that this thread is actually very PRO-Goren except for a couple posts.
QUOTE (Jryan @ Jun 19 2008, 01:55 PM)
Can we let this one DIE, I hate seeing this on the USA home page.
QUOTE (spookycc @ Jun 19 2008, 01:57 PM)
Normally I wouldn't reply, and let it die, but when I saw the title, I knew there would be so many of us who would jump to our Bobby's defense. I wish we could add a subtitle that explains that this thread is actually very PRO-Goren except for a couple posts.
I wish we could add a subtitle that explains that this thread is actually very PRO-Goren except for a couple posts.I'm kind of having fun now! Sorry, JRyan, I keep trying to stop. Really.
QUOTE (InfinityStar @ Jun 19 2008, 02:39 PM)
I've been lurking here and there, and when I read this post, I felt compelled to reply. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and respectfully so. I, myself, cannot watch SVU because I absolutely cannot stand the character of Olivia Benson. Few people know that, however, because I did not meander over to the SVU boards to announce it to the world. I do watch SVU from time to time because I do like Stabler and, particularly, Fin and Munch. Anyway, I don't watch much television, but I never miss Criminal Intent, and that is because of the character of Bobby Goren. Those of you who know me will not be surprised by that at all. I fell in love with Vincent D'Onofrio after Full Metal Jacket and I simply adore the man. He's a brilliant actor. And that brilliance shines particularly bright in the character of Bobby Goren. Few people I have encountered say "Meh. He's all right." when referring to the character of Goren. They either love him or hate him. What I find most amusing about the people who hate him, though, is that so many of them are compelled to tune in and watch him! The character of Goren is central to the CI series. There's no doubt about that. I have serious doubts that the series would survive without him, simply because viewership would so drastically decline. There are people who watch the Logan eps, like myself, because they like Logan. There are others who refuse to watch the Logan eps because he is not Goren. Although I was disappointed when they split the episodes because it meant less Goren, I was pleased they chose to bring Logan back. And I was grateful for it because VDO drove himself into the ground with the demands of filming nearly every scene in an hour-long series along with the film work he was doing. But I watch the series for Goren. I find his quirks and eccentricities endearing and his recent personal troubles heart-breaking. I do not find his encyclopedic knowledge any more off-putting than his genius-level intellect. My little son (who is 6) is a brilliant but quirky little guy, and he is the way I imagine little Bobby would have been before his mother got sick.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
The series is very different from SVU and the mothership, and that is the way it was designed to be. It is an intelligent police procedural, rooted in the psychology of the criminal mind and revolving around the brilliant profiler who has a deep understanding of those disturbed minds. Having a background in psychology myself, I am able to thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Goren's insights and his ability to get into the minds of the criminals he pursues. Being a detective is clearly his niche but it has also come to define who he is as a person. Without the job, as without Eames, he is lost.
I also have enjoyed watching Eames' understanding of her partner grow and develop to the point that she is able to follow his leaps of logic. As a friend recently told me, "Goren leaps from A to D and then looks for B and C to prove it, while Eames goes from A to B to C to D simply because that's how she works. They complement each other." Goren respects, admires and deeply cares about Eames and he sees her as his partner in every sense of the word, not a lackey to do his bidding and follow along in his wake. He has never belittled her nor has he ever left her out of a case they were investigating. Goren is a brilliant, modest man with a kind, gentle nature and an uncompromising set of morals. I have a great deal of respect for him and he has clearly become my favorite fictional character of all time, as VDO is my favorite actor. Period. I never force my opinion onto others because I respect that everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. But I will respectfully defend my boy when expressing my own opinion.
I don't know about the wisdom of letting this thread die. It's certainly an eye catcher! If defending Bobby encourages someone with such insight and eloquence as InfinityStar to begin posting, I'm all for it. Excellent post, InfinityStar and welcome to the board. I hope you stay around.
Anybody else lurking out there with an opinion?
QUOTE (NLfan @ Jun 19 2008, 04:27 PM)
I don't know about the wisdom of letting this thread die. It's certainly an eye catcher! If defending Bobby encourages someone with such insight and eloquence as InfinityStar to begin posting, I'm all for it. Excellent post, InfinityStar and welcome to the board. I hope you stay around.
Anybody else lurking out there with an opinion?
Anybody else lurking out there with an opinion?
Well I just don't think it looks good to log on to USA CI and see NO More Goren, but then as I always say, its just my opinion, and the person who started this thread gets to keep seeing their name on the top of the board and thats what they wanted so I guess they win. Why not start, We Love Goren thread. Or Why we Love Goren thread. But then its just my opinion, and I for one will not post here anymore.
QUOTE (Gatepromise @ Jun 19 2008, 11:32 AM)
As for Goren himself...some people really are incredibly intelligent and insightful. Being a detective is his calling and he's damn good at it. And yes, he's very smart, but he also doesn't seem to be particulary good at math, or at some practical things, like taking care of himself. He has a lot of quirks and quarks, also typical of someone of near-genius level intelligence. He has a soft, gentle voice and manner, unless he's agitated, and then his voice can rise a surprising degree of octaves. He's caring and dedicated and can be quite funny. Many people, myself included, find VDO very physically attractive. I also certainly find his innovations as an actor fascinating. I remember watching the first season of CI on dvd, and listening to Dick Wolf talk about the first time they brought VDO for a screen test, where they just put VDO in front of a camera and tried to decide the best ways to dress the character and that kind of thing; Wolf said that his charisma was such that even just sitting still for the camera, people who were walking by and didn't know him or anything about the show would stop and stare because he had such a presence. In a positive way.
Goren was a caregiver of his mentally ill (and occasionally abusive) mother, had a rough childhood, a deadbeat brother, a nephew he tried to help--in other words, a hell of a backstory. He's a larger than life character, very unusual in a sea of copycats.
Goren was a caregiver of his mentally ill (and occasionally abusive) mother, had a rough childhood, a deadbeat brother, a nephew he tried to help--in other words, a hell of a backstory. He's a larger than life character, very unusual in a sea of copycats.
I agree - From the first time I watched CI - Everytime Goren was in a room I was just mesmerized by him. VDO is SO compelling to watch on screen. And I find "both" to be SOOOOOO sexy!! :-)
Let's not forget the father that Goren tried to please but was ignored by to the list of hardships he went through. And yet - he became a detective and not a criminal. He's got a good heart and VDO makes sure that we get to see that.
I'm glad that Chris Noth came in to help out, but my "can't miss" episodes are the Goren episodes.
So I too must disagree with the starter of the thread - CI was SUPPOSED to be centered on the Goren character and it has been done beautifully for the last 7 (soon to be 8) seasons by Vincent.
The life of this thread goes to how that the folks at USA believe in free speech. This thread wouldn't have lasted two seconds on that other board...
Thank you USA for allowing us our free speech even if it isn't always intellegent or appropriate.
Thank you USA for allowing us our free speech even if it isn't always intellegent or appropriate.
QUOTE (laofan82 @ Jun 18 2008, 08:34 PM)
... His character is painfully annoying. It is completely unrealistic, why must his character act all-knowing. And it's not just that he's smart, I could enjoy that, it's the way he is the focus and he uncovers these crazy plots by himself and talks through it in that way he does, it actually is sickening to me, I have to turn it off. The way he talks to people and is obnoxious. The underlying stories are actual very good...
I know!!!! Isn't Adrian Monk the most annoying and unrealistic character ever?!
Oops, this is the LOCI board. Never mind....
(JK - I'm a big fan of Monk too.)I was a fan of Vincent D'Onofrio before LOCI and I'm just fascinated by how he inhabits the character of Robert Goren created by Dick Wolf and Rene Balcer, he is an acquired taste, just as I understand not everyone likes butter on their parsnips ...
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