I'm not starting this topic to start a fight, or say that there SHOULD be slash pairings in this fandom, or someone should write some, it's just some thinking.

I've been reading internet fanfiction in various fandoms of various sizes for the last ten years. I think it's weird how little slash there is in this fandom. Seriously, if people can slash Harry Potter, Teletubbies and Andrew Lloyd Webber's CATS, one should, theortically, be able to create semi-believable pairings out of any fandom.

I think I could probably count on two hands the number of LoCI fanfics I've seen with our favorite characters in homosexual pairings, and still have a couple fingers left over. A few Logan/Goren and some Eames/Barek buried in the archives of aff.net and fanfiction.net.

Are our favorite detectives just THAT heterosexual (although the Kinsey report would beg to differ), or do any of you guys have some other interesting theories? Or possible pairings?

haha, that is kinda funny.

I guess they look super heterosexual. I think because "shipping" isn't a main factor in the show, people don't think of it.

Hey, that's cool. I was just more curious as to why people think this is going on.





Yeah, except that I've seen slash come out of some pretty unbelievable places... the House fandom for instance. Or Wrestling (although the sheer amount of testosterone there might hint at over-compensation, which may make WWE more interesting to me, I should check it out). Yes, part of it is obviously because LOCI doesn't seem to ship anything but angst for everybody. Still though...


The other thing I've noticed is the prevalence and acceptance of "Original Characters" especially female ones, that aren't being written off as Mary Sues. Most other fandoms I've been in, writing an original female love interest for a character went over about as well as a fart in church. Now, part of that is writing quality (and LOCI fandom has some of the better writers I've seen for such a smallish writing fandom), but any other fandom OCs are pretty much what you expect out of newbs.

This is an interesting sociological question to me...

I never replied, cause call me OLD but I don't know what Slash is, but from the previous responses I kinda get the idea now. Boy I am learning all kind of new words, this is just like Sesame Street.

LOL, it's okay. I'm only in my twenties and some of the IM abbreviations stump me, and it's not like I don't use the internet every day!

I'm with you, JRyan. I guessed the meaning, but I've never heard the term before. OK everybody, today's letter is S. S is for Slash.

And as for your question, Quaxo, for me they most definately are THAT heterosexual (with all due respect to Kinsey). I'm afraid I've never been too interested in same sex pairings. Well, with one exception. The Velocity of Gary. Never would I have believed that I could ever desire to be a gay man SO BADLY! Umm....did I just type that out loud?

Hey, whatever floats yer boat. I'm just stunned personally by the sheer lack of slash fanfic. Seriously, never been a fandom this straight. Ever. Well, maybe Phantom of the Opera was straighter, but there was still a lot more Erik/Raoul than one would think.

Yeah I guess they are just THAT straight. I've never really been one to search out slash, so I guess I never really noticed, but now that you bring it up, you're right. Our fandom is seriously low on slash by comparison.

I did read a fanfic that had an Eames/Wheeler vibe, but I don't think it was ever acted on. IIRC, Wheeler was bi and had a thing for Eames, but at the point that it stopped being updated, she hadn't said anything.

I think it would be cute.

As for OC, I think the better reaction to them is cause by a few factors:
A. Aside from B/A ship there really isn't much shipping at all, and those that do are vocal but not rabid.

B. LOCI fans seem to be more reasonable and open-minded people over all.

C. LOCI has extra characters come around all the time.

D. Most of the OC's are written by women in love with Bobby as a way of making him happy. Since most of the readers are either fellow writers, or fellow Bobby lovers, as long as she's well-written it's OK.

I also have to agree that we do seem to have a larger percent of good writers "per capita" than some other fandoms too.

I've read some too, mostly Goren/Logan - and a couple have been really interesting. But overall, they don't do much for me. I can't write that - especially since I don't seem to have Logan's 'voice', just like I don't have Ross', Rodgers, Nicole, ummm, and Eames comes and goes. I do best with Goren. Go figure - LOL!

I also don't write strictly canon, but I do try to stay within the confines of given backstory or what we've seen and heard from the show.




As to why LOCI fan fic is this way - I don't know, maybe it's just as quirky as it's lead character...

For me, writing OC's is a practical question. As I wrote above, I can't seem to get certain voices or characters right - so I create my own - and then no one knows if I get them right or not. And I really can't write procedural crime - I SUCK at it, but I keep trying (I'm kind of working on one now). So it 's OC's or nothing. Hopefully they don't come across as Mary Sues, that's never been my intent - criminal or otherwise.

Hah, everytime I contemplate Goren/Logan, my Logan muse slams the door and I hear squealling tires. Goren just gives me a funny look. >_> Yes my muses talk to me, but that's totally normal right?

Maybe it's because both Logan and Goren are partnered with women? If they were partnered together and we saw the interact on a more personal level there might be much more to go off of....

Hey! USA! More Ocean's Two please! Please?



See, I have a problem writing original characters... We should work together. And no, I don't think yours (or anyone's really) come across as Mary Sues. It's weird for me in this fandom because years of aversion training makes it hard to even look at OC fics.

I'm not sure if I'm following the discussion here correctly, so please excuse me if I'm off base. But I think we don't see many slash fandoms of Goren, Eames, Logan, etc, because the characters are not homosexuals. If people feel like there needs to be more homosexual representation in stories, then they can write fanfic with more characters who are homosexuals. jmo.

I'm not one that goes for slash at all, but I agree with every point that's been made here.

As far as OC's, I've seen some in this fandom that have been really good. I've seen other's that my not have been mary sues, but they weren't up to par by my standards.

Funny though, that the only Homosexual character was on the original and they didn't out her till she left. Too bad, there isn't one on LOCI for Nicole to trick to get to Bobby. But we already know that Wheeler is straight since she is engaged, hmmm unless its to Nicole? But then she said it was a him.

Whether or not they're homosexual on the show is sort of moot when it comes to slash fanfiction in general. Afterall, ABC is pretty much the only network with openly gay regular characters on TV. It's less about "There needs to be more representation" and more of a question as to why a trend that seems popular in other fandoms is absent here.

Harry Potter, after all, is a "straight" character, and yet some of the most popular slash pairings for him are Harry/Ron or the popular but highly improbable Harry/Snape.

There used to be a lotta slash on the X-Files fanfiction forums. Esp with Mulder and Krycek. And Mulder and Skinner. Sound offensive? I guess it might be, but not as gag-inspiring as the thought of Ross and the Chief of D's in a bathtub scene.

The SVU forum has a lot of F/F slash, esp Cabot and Benson. At least I ASSUME they're about Cabot, even tho they usually say "Alex" in the summaries. I've never read one of those, so, honestly, I don't know.

Aww, but with rubber duckies? Rubber duckies make everything cuter... maybe not sexier, but cuter.



I think there is some confirmation from the show writers that there is some underlying "sexual tension" between the two

Cabot didn't get fired as much as she had to go into witness protection...

I think that you might be thinking of Novak

Really? The writers have said there was underlying sexual tension between Benson and Cabot? I must have been watching a different show because I never saw it. Now I'm going to be watching for it whenever I watch those episodes.

If it's there, I missed it, too, ciadict...

I find they do write the women as butchy, maybe thats why they are lowering Eames Necklines, they need to make them a little more femine, Just like in "On Fire" when she commented to Goren, how that guy was coming on to her with his wife upstairs, I did not see that he was coming on to her. I really wouldn't be surprised to find out Eames was gay or bi- even though she was married.

I hate it when television feels the need to make women more feminine by changing their appearance or wardrobe. Eames is perfect just the way she is. In "On Fire" , when she said upstairs, I thought it was a scene not viewed by the audience, because I thought they were on the first floor when they were talking. She may have just meant that he was showing his wife off by making out in front of them, and making a note that he was the show-off kind of guy. I doubt that Eames is gay, but women who tend to have more masculine job tend to be slightly bisexual, but defenitely not all women. Remember when she made the comment about liking race cars? She was probably a tomboy when she was a kid, and that sometimes leads to bisexual feelings. I don't think she is though, maybe waay underneath.

I agree that Eames was likely a tomboy growing up, and doesn't think much of her gender because it rarely affects how she does her job. Even though others in Major Case or Vice might think differently.

Harry/Snape? *shudders* Sometimes there are some love/hate relationships that change (remember how Lily didn't like James, but he matured). But hate/hate relationships can never work, and I never read them.

As far as LOCI goes, I've read a couple of Logan/Goren, but I generally stay away. Mainly because while I can picture the two men as good friends, it would take something big to make them change their thoughts about the other. Even then, we've known that they've both dated before, so it would be very difficult to write believeably. As someone who tries her best to remain within canon, I really don't see that or Eames going the other way.

When it comes to OC's I agree that the ones here are great, though I have read my share of stories where the FOC was just there to make the main male character happy. Personally, I feel they should serve more of a plot point then that if you decide to put them into a story (unless you're writing a PMP story, which is a whole other ballgame). Otherwise, it becomes about how Mary Sue wins over everyone and saves the day everytime, which has me rolling my eyes in disbelief.

[quote name='spookycc' date='Jun 19 2008, 04:40 PM' post='882363']
There used to be a lotta slash on the X-Files fanfiction forums. Esp with Mulder and Krycek. And Mulder and Skinner. Sound offensive? I guess it might be, but not as gag-inspiring as the thought of Ross and the Chief of D's in a bathtub scene.

That really made me laugh, spook. What a scene...

I do not have strong feelings for slash, either way. I've read some Goren/Logan which I found surprisingly good. As for writing slash...nah...that's just not my thing. I don't think I could do it justice, anyway. But I will read it, if it's well written. I have a thing against poorly written stories...

I never imagined two men together could be hot...until I saw The Velocity of Gary. All I can say about that is...wow... There is certainly something to be said for the intensity VDO brings to a role. He can make anything work and be totally believeable. Amazing.

how the hck could ANYBODY say Eames could be biosexual (sp?) HOW!!

Why not, not like there is anything wrong with that. But I must say when they made the detective Bayliss on HLOTS Bi it really broke my heart.

Okay, well, I finally found a "moment", that in any other fandom would be considered prime justification: The sympathetic look Bobby gives Ross at the end of "Betrayed". When I turn on my fantastical--improbable glasses, I can almost see it.

Almost. I could start making the argument in my head, that it's a Mr. Darcy/Elizabeth Bennet sort of attraction and then everything fuzzes out when I try to write the two of them in my head in a off-duty situation.

So maybe the problem is me.

you guys must be sick then!! I'd rather see Goren in bed with her, then knowing about her hooking up with another women!!

VDO does gay well, but I can't see Bobby as gay, or refuse to see it, lol.

Spoiler:

WORD!!!!

Yeah, I think that's my problem as well... although he deliberately avoided looking at any of the strippers in "Purgatory". One could argue that him "being a gentlemen" could have been a detriment to his undercover (because what guy passes up free peeksies?) and that it may have been done out of general lack of interest in that direction...

I could definitely see Alex as bisexual, although I have doubts as to whether she'd act on any impulses... She's very career oriented, and being seen as the stereotypical "dyke doing a man's job" wouldn't sit well with her I think.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to this thread like adults and was willing to join in on my odd musings!

Because we think differently, doesn't make us sick. Do you always think that different = wrong? You don't have to read that kind of thing if you don't want to, and if you don't want to talk about it, there are plenty of other threads.

WORD!

Holy frick. How did I not notice that? I think LOCI is really unique this way, because if that had been ANY other TV show, my "Slash-dar" would've gone off like woah. It seems like, watching CI, everyone has their 'super-straight' goggles on, and nobody even considers the possibilities. Does this have more significance in regards to the show itself, or the fans, d'you think?

EXCEPT-- and maybe I'm about to get destroyed for this, but oh well-- I totally think Wheeler is gay. There was an episode where she was talking to a female mechanic about something involving a case, and they were totally hitting on each other. Plus, in the last episode, where that Mary from IPS guest-starred, after she left, Wheeler turned away with this odd look, and said "She's a slice." with this...tone in her voice. Fiance or no, I've always had her pegged as gay.

I really do not think anything was happening when Bobby gave that look at the end. He was just concerned. Not to be a damper...but I don't think the writers think about these things when including them in the show, just the fans.

And Wheeler gay? I never thought about that. I don't think she is. But I don't watch her eps as much so I don't know. I do notice that she seems to stand sort of slanted back with her hands in her pockets, with a low-kind of voice. That looks to me like she is more of a grown-up tomboy or something

maybe Bi?

LOL, well, we're spoiled with the overwhelming amounts of slashy subtext in Scrubs. I don't know if it's the writers or the fans (although judging from the number of ladies in love with Mr. D'Onofrio it does seem to lean fanside).

Wheeler, I can see your point. Hm... I'll watch Contract again tonight, because well, there are states where Wheeler could get married to a woman (Cali and Mass for instance). I think she says "You'll meet them"... even if she says "him" it could be because she didn't want to start a scene (because Mike would totally have ribbed her for it).

Oh, I totally agree. I'm definitely not suggesting that there are any slash overtones anywhere in the series, and I don't think Quaxo was either. We're just saying that in most other fandoms, people tend to *look* for that kind of thing more, and want to see more slashy stuff, but they just don't in this one.




Possibly. Especially if her fiance really is a "he."





I HAVE to send you and icon regarding that subtext, because you will die of laughter. But yeah, probably a fanside lean. Also, possibly the viewing audience age has a lot to do with it and what the fans look for? I also think there has to be a writer who does some really eye-catching pieces to start the slash-movement in a fandom. There have been a few Bobby-Mike fics, but there's yet to be a devoted LOCI-slash author in the ranks.

And as shocked as mike was that she was engaged at all? He'd have had a heart attack if she'd said "she".

well, there are some Bobby/Mike stories out there. I could easily imagine Bobby being gay (maybe only because that scene in VOG is one of the hottest things I've ever seen), sometimes his movements are a bit campy.

I think the cast is quite small and in general, relationships are not the main focus of the show, maybe that's why. In the beginning of season six I thought they wanted Wheeler to be gay but that vanished soon and she seems so young and innocent, I couldn't imagine her having a sex life at all

Alex, naaah, I bet she's straight as hell, unfortunately LOL. And for some reason, women seem to prefer writing and reading slash-MM-fics so we'll probably never get a story about Eames shagging someone else besides Bobby or Deakins.

(The cast is too small for minorities anyway, okay, so we do have a jew, but the black guy was fired and especially in the Logan epis it seems as if the black and hispanic people are always the bad people, but I may be wrong about that)

LOL, yes. Femme-slash always seems to be less popular. The cast is rather white... although the new DA (that we never see) is an afro-american female, she was in a couple of the Logan episodes before she disappeared period. So maybe they thought she counted twice?

I wanna see more... more unusual couples. Like... Bobby with somebody else besides Alex or something. And Alex maybe hooking up with somebody else too. What happened to that? You can't just have the B/A and R/R and be done with it! Personally I think we need more people writing about couples that most people wouldn't expect... (And don't always make sense together) maybe slash like even. To me Logan and Barek shipping is weird... (I never would expect that)

I couldn't really see slash as it's not in front of my face (and I don't want to imagine it) But if it would happen like in FF or something... It might make sense.



Quaxo I love your sig it's really cool!!

I thought she was gay too. And I thought her fiance was going to be a woman, but she referred to the fiance as "him". So I guess not.

She still could be... maybe Wheeler just didn't want to get into it in front of Logan. Ross I don't think would care, Logan either. But you know Logan would tease her about it. Especially considering how shocked he was that she got engaged at all...

I have gay friends in the police and they say it's often better to keep your mouth shut about your private life, especially as a woman and most especially if you work in the "lower ranges" (which Wheeeler doesn't but she probably had to do the parkticket stuff before she became a detective). And I am also not always telling people that I have a wife instead of a husband. It would be nice to have a gay member in the cast who isn't making a fuss about it... she's engaged to a girl, nothing newsworthy, life goes on, next case please. I guess Logan would be sweet about it. I'll miss him

Well, technically Nicole is bisexual, but I'm pretty sure Wheeler is straight. Bobby is straight, Eames is straight, and Logan is straight. If you ask me, Logan needs a woman, as does Bobby. Personally, I think Eames is good for Bobby, but for Logan, the only character that seemed to work was Nola F. And she was *grumble* married. Ah well. You know, I'm such a die- hard B/A fan that I never even looked at Logan/Alex before, but I guess that's partly because they're not in hardly any episodes together. Maybe I should give Alex to Logan and make up someone for Bobby.

Line forms to the right for Bobby, with me first. Hey stop pushing.

Ahh, but I wanna be first! Oh well. If I can't have Bobby, then Logan will have to suffice.

This is something I too have wondered about. My first experience with fanfic was at midnitelore. The plots get a bit kinkier over there, and sometimes the characters do too. I am thinking in particular of a couple of (really good) stories that posited a triple featuring Goren, Eames, and Logan.

I agree, slash fic has nothing to do with the actual or perceived orientation of the characters, but the writer's conception of them with a sexuality other than the one the're written with. To me, it's part of the freedom of writing fan fic that the "real" writers don't have. We have these wonderful characters that we can explore in every way.

To me, about the kinkiest thing I can imagine is Goren and Eames getting romantic. I think I'd rather see him with Logan... (lol)

The first slash I ever heard of (decades ago) was Kirk/Spock.
LOCI doesn't do much with the character's private lives. Some shows (say, Saving Grace) are almost more about the characters than the cases. We've learned about Bobby's family over the years as part of what makes him so tortured. But the most I've ever heard him say about his sex life was "I had a girlfriend who....(whatever)." But, obviously, something was going on emotionally with Nicole.

Bobby kind of nodded when Declan said the only way to engage Nicole was not to engage her sexually.

I think Goren has a "masculine maternal" factor that makes him attractive to a whole range of people. His body movements have what I describe as "Gothic Sway." That is an art history term from how the art of the middle ages was relatively straight, upright, square, head on. And then the Gothic brought in a more gracefull, curving, fluid form. The figures actually lean to one side.