Full Version: Bobby keeping Eames in the dark
The fun thing about joining a forum, is that you can tell exactly how a controversial subject is split!
QUOTE (unsteady @ Jun 9 2008, 06:12 PM) 
The fun thing about joining a forum, is that you can tell exactly how a controversial subject is split!
yeah its been a hoppin topic, lol.
I think they're both right in their own way.
Hello, all -- I'd like to throw my two cents' worth in --
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
Wow, I think you were so right on on some many points!
QUOTE (Mogirl98 @ Jun 9 2008, 07:06 PM)
Hello, all -- I'd like to throw my two cents' worth in --
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
Very good point made there. I agree with most of what you said.
Its kinda funny actually and a bit out there as far as random bits of info, but I thought the name Stoat was fitting...since a stoat is a kind of weasel! And he was definately a little weasel!
I agree-- That's part of the charm of the show, it's got so many layers, and the thing with "Stoat" is just funny -- the writers showing a sense of humor !!
I put he was out of line.
1. It isn't like he doesnt break rules every hour.
2. It's not like Eames would run around telling his secret
3. Eames would've told him if she went undercover.
1. It isn't like he doesnt break rules every hour.
2. It's not like Eames would run around telling his secret
3. Eames would've told him if she went undercover.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 9 2008, 07:30 PM)
I put he was out of line.
1. It isn't like he doesnt break rules every hour.
2. It's not like Eames would run around telling his secret
3. Eames would've told him if she went undercover.
1. It isn't like he doesnt break rules every hour.
2. It's not like Eames would run around telling his secret
3. Eames would've told him if she went undercover.
Would she? Does Eames even know what its like to be blacklisted from the job that has become her life? How far would she go to get her shield back?
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 06:31 PM)
Would she? Does Eames even know what its like to be blacklisted from the job that has become her life? How far would she go to get her shield back?
No she doesn't, which is a good thing. She's level-headed and does her job. Bobby on the other hand thinks he can do whatever he dang well pleases.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 9 2008, 07:39 PM)
No she doesn't, which is a good thing. She's level-headed and does her job. Bobby on the other hand thinks he can do whatever he dang well pleases.
He always errors on the side of right.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 06:42 PM)
He always errors on the side of right.
That's a matter of opinion.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 9 2008, 07:48 PM)
That's a matter of opinion.
I think he usually tries to get to the ending that's the right one. He just doesn't always go about it in the most "right" way.
QUOTE (spookycc @ Jun 9 2008, 07:59 PM)
I think he usually tries to get to the ending that's the right one. He just doesn't always go about it in the most "right" way.
I agree with that. Sometmes its like he isnt sure how he should go about doing things...or saying things. Its part of his charm in my opinion.
I think part of it all goes back to Eames' "its too late" line from Smile. I think the load of guilt is catching up with him as he does see/sense some of what it's been like for her for the last eight years (so I guess they were partners for about a year before we 'met' them) - if he didn't he does now!
But while his actions were greatly dictated by the nature of being undercover - I think his motives go back to the "its too late" and Tates actions being "duly noted" in her jacket. But nothing in their history has prepared either of them for that level of deception and Eames gets totally blindsided.
It's going to take time, but they'll both get right with it. Eventually.
But while his actions were greatly dictated by the nature of being undercover - I think his motives go back to the "its too late" and Tates actions being "duly noted" in her jacket. But nothing in their history has prepared either of them for that level of deception and Eames gets totally blindsided.
It's going to take time, but they'll both get right with it. Eventually.
QUOTE (FusseKat @ Jun 9 2008, 08:24 PM)
I think part of it all goes back to Eames' "its too late" line from Smile. I think the load of guilt is catching up with him as he does see/sense some of what it's been like for her for the last eight years (so I guess they were partners for about a year before we 'met' them) - if he didn't he does now!
But while his actions were greatly dictated by the nature of being undercover - I think his motives go back to the "its too late" and Tates actions being "duly noted" in her jacket. But nothing in their history has prepared either of them for that level of deception and Eames gets totally blindsided.
It's going to take time, but they'll both get right with it. Eventually.
But while his actions were greatly dictated by the nature of being undercover - I think his motives go back to the "its too late" and Tates actions being "duly noted" in her jacket. But nothing in their history has prepared either of them for that level of deception and Eames gets totally blindsided.
It's going to take time, but they'll both get right with it. Eventually.
I agree.
You know what he should of said instead of "I tried to keep you out of this one" was "I've ruined your career enough." I wonder how she would of reacted to that!
When I watched the scene of Eames chewing out Goren for not telling her about the undercover operation, it seemed to me that she was reacting out of the shock that she could have killed him.I don't know if she could have lived with that guilt even though it wouldn't have been her fault. It's obvious they have a deep feelings for each other...I'm just not sure exactly what kind of love it is, familial or romantic? She certainly is maternal towards him, and he seems to relish her approval.
QUOTE (Mogirl98 @ Jun 9 2008, 06:06 PM)
Hello, all -- I'd like to throw my two cents' worth in --
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 07:28 PM)
You know what he should of said instead of "I tried to keep you out of this one" was "I've ruined your career enough." I wonder how she would of reacted to that!
"Damn straight you have"
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 9 2008, 08:59 PM)
"Damn straight you have"
No disrespect, but to quote Goren in response to Carver's remark that the first half of your life is ruined by your parents, the second half by your children -- "Only if you let them". She could have walked away at any time.
Eames did herself a disservice by calling herself Goren's water carrier. She is a force in her own right, and I was surprised to hear her make such a low-esteem remark about herself.
Hi Bubba here, welcome to the forum Mogirl98. You made some good points.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 9 2008, 08:59 PM)
"Damn straight you have"
She could've walked at any time.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 08:37 PM)
She could've walked at any time.
Totally agree and they both know it.
She has to know that he knew she never would have shot him (read that again slowly).
I am not sure if Bobby knows how to care about a woman other than his mother.
I still think the season finale will be Eames asking for a new partner.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 09:37 PM)
She could've walked at any time.
Yeah, I don't think he's ruined her career. Bobby bends the rules, yeah, but if he was really the liability that she's making him out to be, then he would have been gone a long time ago - or they would have never given him a chance to get back in! He's a good detective who uses methods that trip up suspects who are used to the run of the mill cops. She's used all his less-than-protocal tactics at one point or another. And we've all seen Eames decide to leave the room on purpose just so Bobby can work magic. She knows what he's good at and used to play right into it. Now she's all high and mighty about how she's lied for him and has put herself on the line. Pffft...
Also, if he was a wildshot, his wrecklessness would ruin cases, not solve every one.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 9 2008, 09:59 PM)
Yeah, I don't think he's ruined her career. Bobby bends the rules, yeah, but if he was really the liability that she's making him out to be, then he would have been gone a long time ago - or they would have never given him a chance to get back in! He's a good detective who uses methods that trip up suspects who are used to the run of the mill cops. She's used all his less-than-protocal tactics at one point or another. And we've all seen Eames decide to leave the room on purpose just so Bobby can work magic. She knows what he's good at and used to play right into it. Now she's all high and mighty about how she's lied for him and has put herself on the line. Pffft...
I gotta agree with that. She's used the tactics and has oftentimes laughed with him after one of their tag team efforts. I think she was running off at the mouth because she felt that he should have told her, regardless -- but like I said before, Bobby is in no position to argue with ANYONE, negotiate or bend the rules if he wants his badge back. And she isn't really, either. Neither she or Ross are (or were) on firm footing with the higher ups, although they didn't get hit as hard as Goren did. She contributes just as much to the team as he does, in terms of her connections and her skills with information gathering, to say nothing of pulling him in when he gets a little too far out there. He might be more visible, but you know what they say -- behind every great man ----
And, too, think about this -- During the first part of this saga, she and Daniels weren't involved in the Testarossa investigation -- they were only in after Ross offered them the chance. Once again, she shoulda/coulda said no -- and would she still be as P.O.ed if she had, the investigation had gone on and concluded, and Bobby been reinstated? I don't think so.
this thread's title is *Bobby keeping Eames in the dark*.. Bobby didn't keep her in the dark.. Ross and the chief of D's did.
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QUOTE (bugtussle47 @ Jun 9 2008, 10:23 PM)
this thread's title is *Bobby keeping Eames in the dark*.. Bobby didn't keep her in the dark.. Ross and the chief of D's did.
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I think the thread is titled like that becaus Eames made it seem like Bobby did it on purpose and that's what we're discussing - if he did or not.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 9 2008, 10:28 PM)
I think the thread is titled like that becaus Eames made it seem like Bobby did it on purpose and that's what we're discussing - if he did or not.
I think he really wanted to, especially when he met her on the street like that -- just the way he was looking at her, like he was debating with himself -- but then decided he couldn't/shouldn't, and abruptly walked away. Now, THAT he could have done more gracefully -- but I think he was dealing with a lot of pressure, he was very stressed and conflicted about it all.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM)
I think the thread is titled like that becaus Eames made it seem like Bobby did it on purpose and that's what we're discussing - if he did or not.
and that's why i posted that.. to say he didn't.. they did.. I understand the title.. i was just making a point.. on the purgatory thread some seem to think it was all Bobby and she had a right to lower the boom on him.. well maybe she said a lot of things she needed to say.. some were way over the top and unfair...she was partialy projecting on him.. because she couldn't say anything to her superiors..(well he knows what she thinks of him finally i guess).. anyway...i just wanted to clarify.. that he was ordered to..from his superiors...Ross and the COD's didn't want her in the loop.. not Bobby.
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QUOTE (Mogirl98 @ Jun 9 2008, 09:03 PM)
No disrespect, but to quote Goren in response to Carver's remark that the first half of your life is ruined by your parents, the second half by your children -- "Only if you let them". She could have walked away at any time.
Eames did herself a disservice by calling herself Goren's water carrier. She is a force in her own right, and I was surprised to hear her make such a low-esteem remark about herself.
Eames did herself a disservice by calling herself Goren's water carrier. She is a force in her own right, and I was surprised to hear her make such a low-esteem remark about herself.
I agree!
QUOTE (HelloBobby @ Jun 9 2008, 09:59 PM)
Totally agree and they both know it.
She has to know that he knew she never would have shot him (read that again slowly).
I am not sure if Bobby knows how to care about a woman other than his mother.
I still think the season finale will be Eames asking for a new partner.
She has to know that he knew she never would have shot him (read that again slowly).
I am not sure if Bobby knows how to care about a woman other than his mother.
I still think the season finale will be Eames asking for a new partner.
Nah...they'll get over it. It may take a few episodes, but they are a team...they cannot do it without the other.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 9 2008, 09:59 PM)
Yeah, I don't think he's ruined her career. Bobby bends the rules, yeah, but if he was really the liability that she's making him out to be, then he would have been gone a long time ago - or they would have never given him a chance to get back in! He's a good detective who uses methods that trip up suspects who are used to the run of the mill cops. She's used all his less-than-protocal tactics at one point or another. And we've all seen Eames decide to leave the room on purpose just so Bobby can work magic. She knows what he's good at and used to play right into it. Now she's all high and mighty about how she's lied for him and has put herself on the line. Pffft...
I agree with all but the last line..I don't think she is high and mighty at all. i think she was scared of what could have happened to him...(no shippyness intended since I am a total NOROMO). I am sure we have all said things when we were upset or afraid...that we regretted later. But its out there now and now we get to see if they can both deal with it and move on.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 10:06 PM)
Also, if he was a wildshot, his wrecklessness would ruin cases, not solve every one.
yes, agreed.
QUOTE (bugtussle47 @ Jun 9 2008, 10:23 PM)
this thread's title is *Bobby keeping Eames in the dark*.. Bobby didn't keep her in the dark.. Ross and the chief of D's did.
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Yes, Goren didnt exactly have a choice in the matter. Maybe that will come out, in a better explaination later on.
QUOTE (Mogirl98 @ Jun 9 2008, 06:06 PM)
Hello, all -- I'd like to throw my two cents' worth in --
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
First of all, I have to wonder how much contact they've had with each other over the entire five months of Goren's suspension. Surely they've talked to each other during that time -- if only because Eames is still on the job, and surely had questions about cases they were working before it all hit the fan (IMHO) -- I just can't see them going that entire time with absolutely no contact. Eames only mentions "I left you two messages" ---
That being said -- I don't think Goren was given a choice in the matter. When he met Ross in Dr. Olivette's office, I had the impression that the deal was, do this and you MIGHT get back, not that there was any guarantee. He obviously didn't want to do it; then, too, I think he's hit a point where he desparately wants to be back on the job. The Chief of Ds (jackass that he is) obviously wanted credible deniability should something go wrong -- if it had, and Goren had been killed, he would have been remembered as just another cop gone bad. Just like the CIA -- you get caught, you're on your own. I don't think Ross was happy about the situation at all, but he's in the same situation as Goren, at least to some extent -- in disgrace, and needing to watch his step.
While I think there are times when Goren does blithely go his way, leaving Eames to follow, I think she was really being unfair to him when she jumps on him in the interrogation room. I don't believe he's ever treated her as a sidekick, or someone to carry his water; I think he gives her opinions great value and weight in their investigations. She should be just as angry as Ross; surely she could see something was hinky about his reactions to developments during this whole investigation. When she and her temp partner said they were in on the investigation, Ross should have told her then -- but, again, I believe his hands were tied by the Chief of Ds' directive not to, and Ross's need to watch his step by following the rules that were laid down. Eames gives Bobby hell about following the rules, but Bobby's desparate to get back to work, and in no position to play fast and loose with the rule book as he has in the past. And if she were brutally honest about it, neither is she. She's made her choices; she could have been assigned to a new partner; she chose not to leave. She could have not gone along with Bobby's decision to go to Tate's, but she did. I don't think any of them expected things to go as wrong as they did, but that's what happens when you deal with unpredictable people, such as the Tate's C.O.s and warden, who are in the wrong, know they are in the wrong, and will do anything to preserve themselves. I think that's why he abruptly walks away from her when she meets him on the street -- he wants to tell her, but can't, and perhaps is afraid to let something slip if he continues the conversation. Nor do I agree with her assessment that Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He didn't choose his parents; he's a product of his upbringing, and sometimes does go to extremes to prove he's not either one of his parents (biological or not).
Nor do I think it fair that Bobby got the blame for "ratting" out Stoat. Unfortunately, many people in uniform think the badge gives them the right to do whatever they want to do. After all, Eames and her temp partner, Daniels, were responsible for outing Stoat's female partner, so they were just as "guilty" of ratting out another cop as Bobby was.
Bottom line is, IMHO -- Goren and Eames were doing exactly as they always do, working the case. The only difference is, neither of them knew the other was involved until they came face to face in Testarossa's office. And I think a lot of Eames' anger stems from the fact that she could have killed Bobby, and that scared the daylights out of her. Like when a child almost gets hurt, and the parent reacts in anger -- not at the child, but at the circumstances.
After having watched these two, in Blind Spot, and Siren Call, and Endgame, and Untethered, I have to wonder if they each haven't come to realize they feel very deeply for one another -- part of Eames' anger might come from the dawning realization that she's fallen for another cop? And Bobby's desparation to get back to work may partially be a desire to be close to her in the only way he feels he can be -- on the job. Just my own opinion ---
Thanks for letting me ramble.
You made a lot of good points, but your last paragraph causes me to suspect you of being a shipper.
NO NO NO
QUOTE
She could've walked at any time.
And therein lies the rub: If she's unhappy with him, if she thinks he's holding her back, then dammit, get a new partner, Eames. If you don't and he upsets you this much for a department sanctioned undercover operation which real-life cops have confirmed he would never be able to have told her, then she really does need to go home, take a vacation and put in for a transfer, and quit her bitching and woe is me attitude. If she feels like she's enabling Bobby to do things he's not supposed to, then that's on her and is her own fault. More than ever, I'm convinced that Eames' being upset is more about her and her insecurities than about Bobby.
QUOTE (Gatepromise @ Jun 10 2008, 12:11 PM)
And therein lies the rub: If she's unhappy with him, if she thinks he's holding her back, then dammit, get a new partner, Eames. If you don't and he upsets you this much for a department sanctioned undercover operation which real-life cops have confirmed he would never be able to have told her, then she really does need to go home, take a vacation and put in for a transfer, and quit her bitching and woe is me attitude. If she feels like she's enabling Bobby to do things he's not supposed to, then that's on her and is her own fault. More than ever, I'm convinced that Eames' being upset is more about her and her insecurities than about Bobby.
even though i do like Eames.. well most of the time anyway.. that was well said GP
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Oh my, such backlash towards Eames comments now. She has been through a lot with Goren - yes, her choice, she did request and then took back her request for a new partner - but still a lot has taken place. Not to be taken in a shippy way, but it is a lot like a marrriage. When you make the choice to stay - you can't comprehend some of the trials that you'll be faced with, but you hang in there anyway, get past it and eventually move on. And you think, well, okay.. it can't get any worse than that. Until the next time.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 9 2008, 08:37 PM)
She could've walked at any time.
Yeah but she cares about him and knows that he needs her. She's not selfish but he could at least THANK her for going through all the stuff she goes through for him.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 9 2008, 08:59 PM)
Yeah, I don't think he's ruined her career. Bobby bends the rules, yeah, but if he was really the liability that she's making him out to be, then he would have been gone a long time ago - or they would have never given him a chance to get back in! He's a good detective who uses methods that trip up suspects who are used to the run of the mill cops. She's used all his less-than-protocal tactics at one point or another. And we've all seen Eames decide to leave the room on purpose just so Bobby can work magic. She knows what he's good at and used to play right into it. Now she's all high and mighty about how she's lied for him and has put herself on the line. Pffft...
To be honest, if this were real...he truely would've been gone such a long time ago, but TV shows don't work the same as the real world.
She knows he's good but that doesn't mean it's right or ethical to be doing what he does.
As for her using them...i doubt it. I've never seen her act like Bobby when interviewing, and i don't want to see her do that. She has her own style and it works for her.
Bobby doesn't even thank her for putting herself on the line. BOBBY is the one who acts all high and mighty doing whatever he dang well pleases.
As Eames said all his wounds are self-inflicted. It's not "poor bobby"....Bobby does this to himself.
QUOTE (bugtussle47 @ Jun 9 2008, 09:23 PM)
this thread's title is *Bobby keeping Eames in the dark*.. Bobby didn't keep her in the dark.. Ross and the chief of D's did.
*bug*
*bug*
Yeah he did, he didn't tell her he was undercover as well as Ross and the Chief of D's. He breaks rules left and right, and yet he couldn't tell his own partner, who has had his back for 8 years, and who has covered his ass many times, that he was undercover.
There wasn't a reason she shouldn't have known either. She actually should've known so she didn't kill him when she came in the door.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 10 2008, 02:32 PM)
Yeah but she cares about him and knows that he needs her. She's not selfish but he could at least THANK her for going through all the stuff she goes through for him.
Touche', Valley
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 10 2008, 02:32 PM)
Yeah but she cares about him and knows that he needs her. She's not selfish but he could at least THANK her for going through all the stuff she goes through for him.
To be honest, if this were real...he truely would've been gone such a long time ago, but TV shows don't work the same as the real world.
She knows he's good but that doesn't mean it's right or ethical to be doing what he does.
As for her using them...i doubt it. I've never seen her act like Bobby when interviewing, and i don't want to see her do that. She has her own style and it works for her.
Bobby doesn't even thank her for putting herself on the line. BOBBY is the one who acts all high and mighty doing whatever he dang well pleases.
As Eames said all his wounds are self-inflicted. It's not "poor bobby"....Bobby does this to himself.
Yeah he did, he didn't tell her he was undercover as well as Ross and the Chief of D's. He breaks rules left and right, and yet he couldn't tell his own partner, who has had his back for 8 years, and who has covered his ass many times, that he was undercover.
There wasn't a reason she shouldn't have known either. She actually should've known so she didn't kill him when she came in the door.
To be honest, if this were real...he truely would've been gone such a long time ago, but TV shows don't work the same as the real world.
She knows he's good but that doesn't mean it's right or ethical to be doing what he does.
As for her using them...i doubt it. I've never seen her act like Bobby when interviewing, and i don't want to see her do that. She has her own style and it works for her.
Bobby doesn't even thank her for putting herself on the line. BOBBY is the one who acts all high and mighty doing whatever he dang well pleases.
As Eames said all his wounds are self-inflicted. It's not "poor bobby"....Bobby does this to himself.
Yeah he did, he didn't tell her he was undercover as well as Ross and the Chief of D's. He breaks rules left and right, and yet he couldn't tell his own partner, who has had his back for 8 years, and who has covered his ass many times, that he was undercover.
There wasn't a reason she shouldn't have known either. She actually should've known so she didn't kill him when she came in the door.
What I meant by she uses them is more that she uses them to her advantage. Now, she has pulled something random out on site that sounds very Bobby-like and I think there's one time where he even looked at her and she said something about how she'd been paying attention. Can't remember the exact quote, but my point is that Eames has benefited from Goren's antics more than been hindered by them. She antagonizes suspects just like he does, lies to them just like he does... Yeah, Goren gets in people's faces and picks at their insecurities, but that's his thing to get them to talk and it WORKS. And Eames has to know that, or she wouldn't leave the interrogation room so often(just to watch from the other side, not because she's actually mad or has something better to do), she wouldn't play along with him so much if she didn't know that it was working.
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 10 2008, 01:43 PM)
What I meant by she uses them is more that she uses them to her advantage. Now, she has pulled something random out on site that sounds very Bobby-like and I think there's one time where he even looked at her and she said something about how she'd been paying attention. Can't remember the exact quote, but my point is that Eames has benefited from Goren's antics more than been hindered by them. She antagonizes suspects just like he does, lies to them just like he does... Yeah, Goren gets in people's faces and picks at their insecurities, but that's his thing to get them to talk and it WORKS. And Eames has to know that, or she wouldn't leave the interrogation room so often(just to watch from the other side, not because she's actually mad or has something better to do), she wouldn't play along with him so much if she didn't know that it was working.
She doesn't personally benefit from him, maybe in a case it comes in handy. She does however personally get screwed over because she gets marks in her jacket which will hurt her career and her chances of moving up.
I believe the paying attention line, was literally talking about her paying attention to what he said earlier cause apparently he thought she wasn't listening. [ I could be wrong but that's how i remembered it]
Maybe Goren should get in his OWN face and pick at his OWN insecurities and then maybe we could stop playing the "poor bobby" game, and have him snap out of whatever little world he's in.
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 10 2008, 02:50 PM)
She doesn't personally benefit from him, maybe in a case it comes in handy. She does however personally get screwed over because she gets marks in her jacket which will hurt her career and her chances of moving up.
I believe the paying attention line, was literally talking about her paying attention to what he said earlier cause apparently he thought she wasn't listening. [ I could be wrong but that's how i remembered it]
Maybe Goren should get in his OWN face and pick at his OWN insecurities and then maybe we could stop playing the "poor bobby" game, and have him snap out of whatever little world he's in.
I believe the paying attention line, was literally talking about her paying attention to what he said earlier cause apparently he thought she wasn't listening. [ I could be wrong but that's how i remembered it]
Maybe Goren should get in his OWN face and pick at his OWN insecurities and then maybe we could stop playing the "poor bobby" game, and have him snap out of whatever little world he's in.
He DID get himself out of the ""poor bobby" game"! He found a way to get back in and didn't want to risk breaking any of the rules when it was his one shot back in. Yes, Goren broke a lot of rules in the past, but MAYBE this was his way of changing his stripes and trying to play by the good cop rules. Eames was offended because she expected him to act like he always does, but the way he always acted landed him in the position he was in for the last five months. Maybe he got in his own face, picked at his own insecurities, and decided to play like the captain and CoD's wanted him to for probably the first time. Can you blame him for that?
QUOTE (ValleyOfTheShado @ Jun 10 2008, 02:50 PM)
Maybe Goren should get in his OWN face and pick at his OWN insecurities and then maybe we could stop playing the "poor bobby" game, and have him snap out of whatever little world he's in.
Thats pretty chilly, Valley.
We know Bobby for the righteous, brave, compassionate and honest man that he is. There is no "poor bobby".
QUOTE (FusseKat @ Jun 10 2008, 02:11 PM)
Oh my, such backlash towards Eames comments now. She has been through a lot with Goren - yes, her choice, she did request and then took back her request for a new partner - but still a lot has taken place. Not to be taken in a shippy way, but it is a lot like a marrriage. When you make the choice to stay - you can't comprehend some of the trials that you'll be faced with, but you hang in there anyway, get past it and eventually move on. And you think, well, okay.. it can't get any worse than that. Until the next time.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
To reiterate what I posted on the Purgatory thread, Eames hasn't dealt with the issues arising from her kidnapping. She came back too soon, and hasn't been herself since -- more cautious, less flexible. She may harbor some unacknowledged resentment toward Bobby -- after all, he brought the Gages into her life, so to speak, although that wasn't his fault, either. How ironic is it that she jumps all over him the one time he DOES do what the Brass told him to?
And he wanted to tell her -- his exasperation with Ross back in the holding cells when he asked could he tell her now was pretty obvious. Eames and Daniels weren't working that end of the investigation, hence, as Ross said, they didn't need to know.
He was right, she was frustrated. Once she calms down and understands that he was under orders, she'll come around. As a cop, she'll understand. As a woman, she was concerned and worried about Robert and mad that he didn't call, but he'll explain and they'll be fine.
I think its safe to say that Bobby didn't do a very good job at explaining to Eames why this was the one time he HAD to follow the rules. He let her vent because he repsects her and knew he deserved it. But he never truly explained his side. And now, because he is not the great communicator, isn't going to. He very truly cares about her.
During the rest of the season, he needs to prove his loyalty to her in some genuine, unprovoked way that is convincing to her.
During the rest of the season, he needs to prove his loyalty to her in some genuine, unprovoked way that is convincing to her.
QUOTE (cluck73 @ Jun 10 2008, 08:51 PM)
I think its safe to say that Bobby didn't do a very good job at explaining to Eames why this was the one time he HAD to follow the rules. He let her vent because he repsects her and knew he deserved it. But he never truly explained his side. And now, because he is not the great communicator, isn't going to. He very truly cares about her.
During the rest of the season, he needs to prove his loyalty to her in some genuine, unprovoked way that is convincing to her.
During the rest of the season, he needs to prove his loyalty to her in some genuine, unprovoked way that is convincing to her.
While I was off doing some other things, I was rolling this around in my mind (there's plenty of room, believe me) and I have a theory (get used to it folks, I ALWAYS have a theory LOLOLOL) -- Given his knowledge of psychology and his profiling abilities, I think he realizes that Eames is not and has not been 100% and has been withholding a lot of his own personal issues from her, feeling she's got enough baggage of her own to deal with, and also recognizing that she's not fully dealt with the trauma and other issues stemming from her kidnapping. He let her in on the Tates thing, because 1) he trusts her implicitly, and 2) he did need an outside contact. I think the Tates thing got out of hand, because they were basically flying into it blind (although now that I think about it, I do have to wonder how Bobby was planning to get out of Tates once he felt he had investigated sufficiently -- not the way he did eventually get out, I'm sure) -- I think he felt it was cathartic for her to vent her feelings at him, and I think a good portion of her anger was at Ross, but she can't exactly vent at her superior officer the way she can at Bobby. He just stood there and took it -- a lot of other people would have been yelling back at her. There again, I think he's reluctant to vent back at her, or open up to her, because he recognizes how tightly wound she's been since the events of Blind Spot. And she very definitely has been tightly wound, her manner is very professional, not a lot of smiles from her, either, if you think about it. And, of course, since he doesn't feel he can vent to her right now, it's also been building up in him. It's like removing air from one balloon to fill another and back and forth until one or both of the balloons bursts from the pressure. Eames has been going through the motions all season, but she comes across (at least to me) as being very, very, VERY weary.
QUOTE (Gatepromise @ Jun 10 2008, 12:11 PM)
I'm convinced that Eames' being upset is more about her and her insecurities than about Bobby.
It was Eames' high profile case and in comes Bobby, solves the case and gets his shield and gun back.
I think it was the Chief of D's that congratulated him not THEM.
QUOTE (bugtussle47 @ Jun 9 2008, 10:53 PM)
this thread's title is *Bobby keeping Eames in the dark*.. Bobby didn't keep her in the dark.. Ross and the chief of D's did.
*bug*
*bug*
IMO you are right. Ross set Eames on a collision course with Bobby when he told her and her new partner to look at the 64th Precinct first in terms of who had access to the Property Clerk's office. At that time Eames asked him if he knew anything he wanted to share and he said "Call it a hunch." Later, when Ross and Eames were discussing how Santana got arrested and who put the gun back on the street, Ross said it needed to be investigated and says "If you two aren't comfortable with this ...". Eames says outright "Any reason why we shouldn't be comfortable with it?" and Ross says "No". IMHO at that point in time he put Bobby's life in danger by not informing Eames and her partner of an undercover officer at Testarosa's club, even if it was somebody other than Bobby.
She definitely has a right to be upset, but at Ross, not at Bobby. Ross' silence could have gotten him killed. When she calms down, I think she will realize who was really at fault here.
QUOTE (Gatepromise @ Jun 10 2008, 01:11 PM)
And therein lies the rub: If she's unhappy with him, if she thinks he's holding her back, then dammit, get a new partner, Eames. If you don't and he upsets you this much for a department sanctioned undercover operation which real-life cops have confirmed he would never be able to have told her, then she really does need to go home, take a vacation and put in for a transfer, and quit her bitching and woe is me attitude. If she feels like she's enabling Bobby to do things he's not supposed to, then that's on her and is her own fault. More than ever, I'm convinced that Eames' being upset is more about her and her insecurities than about Bobby.
You have some good points here.
QUOTE (FusseKat @ Jun 10 2008, 02:11 PM)
Oh my, such backlash towards Eames comments now. She has been through a lot with Goren - yes, her choice, she did request and then took back her request for a new partner - but still a lot has taken place. Not to be taken in a shippy way, but it is a lot like a marrriage. When you make the choice to stay - you can't comprehend some of the trials that you'll be faced with, but you hang in there anyway, get past it and eventually move on. And you think, well, okay.. it can't get any worse than that. Until the next time.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
But there's still going to be things said in frustration, in anger, and fear that aren't going to highlight anyone's more sterling qualities. I still think that they'll hang in, get past it and move on.
I agree!
QUOTE (gottalovegoren @ Jun 10 2008, 02:43 PM)
What I meant by she uses them is more that she uses them to her advantage. Now, she has pulled something random out on site that sounds very Bobby-like and I think there's one time where he even looked at her and she said something about how she'd been paying attention. Can't remember the exact quote, but my point is that Eames has benefited from Goren's antics more than been hindered by them. She antagonizes suspects just like he does, lies to them just like he does... Yeah, Goren gets in people's faces and picks at their insecurities, but that's his thing to get them to talk and it WORKS. And Eames has to know that, or she wouldn't leave the interrogation room so often(just to watch from the other side, not because she's actually mad or has something better to do), she wouldn't play along with him so much if she didn't know that it was working.
I agree with this as well. The work there game together...to get the crimes solved.
QUOTE (CriminallyInsane @ Jun 10 2008, 06:25 PM)
He was right, she was frustrated. Once she calms down and understands that he was under orders, she'll come around. As a cop, she'll understand. As a woman, she was concerned and worried about Robert and mad that he didn't call, but he'll explain and they'll be fine.
I don't know if he will explain. He is a man and men don't usually go back to explain their side of things, once the actual argument is over..jmo..but I do think she will think it over and realize her fear was talking...not the cop side of her.
QUOTE (NLfan @ Jun 10 2008, 11:42 PM)
IMO you are right. Ross set Eames on a collision course with Bobby when he told her and her new partner to look at the 64th Precinct first in terms of who had access to the Property Clerk's office. At that time Eames asked him if he knew anything he wanted to share and he said "Call it a hunch." Later, when Ross and Eames were discussing how Santana got arrested and who put the gun back on the street, Ross said it needed to be investigated and says "If you two aren't comfortable with this ...". Eames says outright "Any reason why we shouldn't be comfortable with it?" and Ross says "No". IMHO at that point in time he put Bobby's life in danger by not informing Eames and her partner of an undercover officer at Testarosa's club, even if it was somebody other than Bobby.
She definitely has a right to be upset, but at Ross, not at Bobby. Ross' silence could have gotten him killed. When she calms down, I think she will realize who was really at fault here.
She definitely has a right to be upset, but at Ross, not at Bobby. Ross' silence could have gotten him killed. When she calms down, I think she will realize who was really at fault here.
I think you are right here.
QUOTE (NLfan @ Jun 10 2008, 11:42 PM)
IMO you are right. Ross set Eames on a collision course with Bobby when he told her and her new partner to look at the 64th Precinct first in terms of who had access to the Property Clerk's office. At that time Eames asked him if he knew anything he wanted to share and he said "Call it a hunch." Later, when Ross and Eames were discussing how Santana got arrested and who put the gun back on the street, Ross said it needed to be investigated and says "If you two aren't comfortable with this ...". Eames says outright "Any reason why we shouldn't be comfortable with it?" and Ross says "No". IMHO at that point in time he put Bobby's life in danger by not informing Eames and her partner of an undercover officer at Testarosa's club, even if it was somebody other than Bobby.
She definitely has a right to be upset, but at Ross, not at Bobby. Ross' silence could have gotten him killed. When she calms down, I think she will realize who was really at fault here.
She definitely has a right to be upset, but at Ross, not at Bobby. Ross' silence could have gotten him killed. When she calms down, I think she will realize who was really at fault here.
Ross is always telling Eames not to let her partner take him down, so maybe he's trying to split them up in a misguided attempt to "save" Eames from Bobby. Even though I think he's come around a good bit in his attitude towards Bobby, he still has reservations. And given the discussion about the meaning of the rat in cop culture in the Purgatory thread, Ross himself might have misgivings about the length to which Bobby was willing to go to get his badge back, even though I don't think Ross was happy about it himself. As a Jew and a definite minority on the force (police work is not a career you normally find Jewish people in, and I'm not trying to be racist here) you would think he would be a little more sympathetic to Bobby, who was already pretty much an outcast among his fellow officers.
I'd like to see Logan come down on Bobby's side. He's pretty much a cop's cop, old school, and doesn't have much respect for the Brass and the way they handle things. I think it would help Bobby's position somewhat.
I don’t think Ross was doing anything but his job. He knew this might be Bobby’s only chance to get back on the job and he definitely knew the chief of Ds hated Bobby. He probably realized it wasn’t a little thing for Bobby to tell him about the job/gun in the first place. It was actually a sign of humility on Bobby’s part to follow protocol instead of jumping in and taking over (as in the case of Tate’s). Eames couldn’t “officially” know because she knows or is on a friendlier basis with more cops then Bobby will ever be and she had a new partner who could also have known the cops involved. The fact is, no one really knew how deep the sting would go until the end. I thought Ross jumped in to deflect some of Eames rage when she found out that Bobby had been undercover and hadn’t told her. Ross immediately said something like “he was ordered not to tell anyone.” I felt that Ross had Bobby’s back in this episode.
I also would like to see or hear Logan support Bobby on this.
I also would like to see or hear Logan support Bobby on this.
Actually my choice wasn't there, Bobby was right, Eames was right, but mad at wrong person, when he put Eames on the case Ross should have told Eames even thought Chief told him not to, I think the Chief wanted Goren to get shot. I think there is more there than meets the eye, and maybe Ross but Eames on the case to protect Goren, but there were more cops there who could have shot him, that could have been working for the chief. Goren was following orders that is what a good cop does. Of course dealing with dirty cops you don't want too many cops to know, so that may be why the brass didn't want Eames to know, she is from a family of cops and they might figure she is friends with a lot of cops, but from Amends we found that not to be true since her hubby died. But Bobby did what he had to do, and Eames needs to take a chill pill and get mad at Ross for not trusting her and pitting her against her partner, then he could explain his reasons for not trusting her. But then he is the Boss and doesn't have to explain anything to her.
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