The reason I didn't mind the way it was handled is because TIIC showed just how desperate Liv was for a family. She gives a fugitive brother, she does not know, money so he can stay hidden??? I think that was one of their better ideas because it was consistent with Liv's backstory.


ANDREA

I understand what you are saying, one way to look at it.

Definitely

How do you figure that? In the beginning of season 8, Elliot and Dani drama was all over the place. Then Dani left and 'boo hoo' another woman walks away. Olivia came back and Elliot's acting cold and hoping against hope that he can 'disagree with her without feeling like he is going to cost them their partnership.' Olivia finds her brother, they meet twice then we never see him again. Of course there is also the 'poisoned' scene. 'As Olivia's body slids to the floor, her thoughts centered around...' Yeah, the sarcasm is eminent. Elliot asks to go home, a case hurts him, he sleeps with Kathy to make the pain go away and then 'OH CRAP' he got her pregnant; like that was a big suprise. Olivia had...all of three episodes out of 20+ with her 'issues' in season 8. The ones I have brought up were ones that were just about entirly dedicated to one actors issues.

In season 9 we don't even see Simon, she wants a baby, she has a boyfriend for a grand total of 3 minutes air time and she was almost rapped. That pretty much does it for season 9. Sure she was in a few things here and there but Elliot seemed to take the high points. He struggles with his 'baby' drama throughout the year, Kathy gets a knife pointed at her, he wonders whether the kid is his, Kathy gets into a car accident and 'OH NO' she codes. But wait! She lives! The baby has trouble sleeping so Elliot has trouble sleeping. The list goes on and on and on.

Don't get me wrong. I love this show but sometimes I feel like Erika Kane (All My Children) is going to pop out of a cake and announce that 'Munch' is the father of their love child. It's gotten way too drama like for me and that's not how the show began. Sure it had personals here and there but the fact of the matter is that the cases took the front seat on the show. Lately they sometimes seem like an afterthought.

Agreed. Giving her character two full episodes is only fair enough considering we've already heard and seen so much about Stabler's personal life from the very beginning. We've already been told numerous times that he considers his family as his refuge from the horrors of their job.

But what about Olivia and the others who are single, and don't have family they can turn to when the job becomes too much? Munch had been married multiple times. Even though he's divorced, at least he experienced having a partner in life away from the job, no matter how brief the relationships were. Fin had Teresa Randall (I'm not sure if they were ever married) and his son, Ken. Even though he was estranged from his son in the beginning, at least he was still able to reconnect with him, if not with his son's mother too.

With Olivia, however, the most we've seen in terms of meaningful personal relationship is with her mother. That was about two minutes in "Payback." The rest pretty much consists of: a one-night stand with Cassidy, an encounter with a creepy reporter, a guy named Michael she hardly ever saw or even talk to, Agent Eckerson who considered rekindling a past relationship gone awry, a would-be date with Spamalot tickets, a slight vibe of flirtation with another reporter who went to jail, Agent Dean what'shislastname who was her case handler undercover, and who later oh-so-boldly implies that she let him hide in her place, and Kurt Moss, an editor she dated for a few months and asked her to move in with him.

I understand why it's only reasonable to give her character two full episodes to explore and delve deeper into her personal history. It may seem like too much for others because they were served in dinner-plate-sized portions instead of dessert -sized dish. Still, considering Stabler has a family of five kids and a wife, plus mentions of siblings, each of them with their own storylines over 9 years? That's already much more than any of the other character have, even Benson.

I know! I was disagreeing w/ "ClassicGirl" about her saying that the past two years seemed like they were "The Elliot Stabler Show." No it hasn't been the Stabler show. Mariska has had quite a few eps centered around Olivia, and I found those episodes to be pretty annoying. Had they been written well and done right, then in my opinion, those episodes wouldn't have been half bad.

I don't mind hearing about Elliot's children. He maybe says one or two lines about Eli, a new baby, that lasts all of five seconds and that is it. I don't feel like that makes for Elliot drama. I mean, good grief. If Olivia were the one w/ a new baby, those Gay for Hargitay lovers would be all for that. If an episode went by where she didn't mention her baby at least once, they'd be all upset b/c, come on man? She has a new baby!!

This all being said, I will say this: There have been quite a few Elliot-centered episodes that I wasn't too fond of. But him being a father w/ some "rage" issues has been an on-going theme w/ him for the series. So seeing him dealing w/ what will most likely be a child w/ emo issues or mental problems, I feel like that is normal. Like I said, we at least know enough about his family to not be totally thrown by it. As for Olivia? She's had no family, and she's been alone for most of the series, give or take a few dates we have seen. All of the sudden, out of nowhere, she has a brother, and a 3-minute boyfriend. It's annoying to me b/c those things are never expounded on and dealt w/. The deal w/ her wanting a baby? That could have been great had we known a little bit more about it. But we didn't and that episode turned into "woe as me" Olivia drama.

Elliot has always had trouble sleeping, in Hysteria, in Wrong is Right, in Damaged, in Monogamy so that's nothing new really, and yeah, babies do cry at night and last I've checked, especially for colicy babies, that's a normal thing.
However don't forget Elliot was temporary blind (or, blurry I should say) however still, the show wasn't focused on him it was focused on Casey and on Olivia's "mama bear" protectiveness.



Fin and Terry were indeed married- he said in one episode while searching in a room with Munch that divorce was hard on him the first time around, he didn't know how Munch handled it four times.

You all keep saying that we had 9 years of Elliot's family drama, but Olivia's two full hours of her and her family (plus when he/mom was mentioned in other episodes) probably racked up more air time than Elliot in the last nine years did. I know that some episodes Elliot and his family maybe had about a whopping 10 minutes of air time. But most of the time he just mentions them...three seconds and it is over. I think that more air time was given to Olivia and her family. Just a thought...

Well I don't agree with you. Sorry. How is Olivia having a boyfriend for 3 minutes and two episodes with her brother the 'Benson' show? Elliot's family drama and issues have been apart of SVU all 9 years. I will agree that Olivia has had a few drama scenes here and there but having her be in an episode without Elliot doesn't count as the 'Benson' show. If she is the lead detective then that hardly counts as drama. I'm talking about outside issues. Outside of the job. Olivia's issues have ALWAYS delt with her past, her feelings about the cases and a whole two episodes with her brother. Your last statment pretty much backs up my point.

Irisheyes, how can a few episodes of Olivia's brother and bringing up her mother issues equal 9 years of two and sometimes entire episodes be greater? That isn't even the issue. I was talking about the last two seasons. Granted Elliot's family stuff has been apart of SVU for 9 years, wouldn't that be an even better reason for someone else's drama to come in to play? It doesn't even have to be Olivia. I would like to know more about Fin or Munch or even Cragen. I would say Casey but she's pretty much finito.

Olivia's family issues or lack of family has been around for nine years too...not just Elliots family...that is what SVU is about, Elliot and his family and Olivia and her lack of one...that is what is supposed to make them great cops...allow them to help relate to their cases

I don't disagree but her family issues tie in to the cases. How is Elliot fixing the kitchen sink being apart of the case? With Olivia its mentioning but with Elliot it's seeing. He cries, hits crap then tries to forget it by sleeping with his wife only to get her pregnant when he wasn't ready for another baby, goes home because of it when he doesn't seem to want to or rather doesn't seem to be ready to do and then mentions his crying baby every chance he gets. Sorry but that has nothing to do with the cases. That's character develpoment and I think the idea of him being a father and husband have been well established. With Olivia, her past is being resurfaced due to the hard case they are working on. Granted her brother stuff was an exception but he was a suspected rappest.

'The same way that Olivia and Captain Crunch did...but to me anything that happened after season six wasn't very good in my opinion, so maybe I should just bow out of this convo...lol..

I am still holding out hope that cabot comes back. I mean she has been in witness protection for awhile. It's about time we see her again.

LOL! I agree, Season 6 was the last great season. Lets just hope that season 10 will be good for all of us. Especially since it may be the last season.

Okay, I complied a list of who appeared what on seasons 8 and 9

Season 8
Informed- Olivia
Clock- Elliot, Fin, with Munch & Cragen
Recall- Elliot & Dani
Uncle- Elliot & Dani, Munch
Confrontation- Elliot & Dani
Infiltrated- Olivia
Underbelly- Elliot & Dani
Cage- Elliot & Dani
Choreographed- Elliot & Olivia
Scheherezade- Elliot and Olivia
Burned- Elliot & Olivia
Outsider- Fin (with Lake)
Loophole- Olivia
Dependent- Elliot & Olivia but taken over by Olivia as Elliot got suspended
Haystack- Elliot with Cragen
Philadelphia- Olivia (Elliot did have a secondary main appearance)
Sin- Elliot & Olivia
Responsible- Elliot & Olivia (however it struck Elliot personally regarding Kathleen)
Florida- Olivia
Annihilated- Elliot & Olivia but Elliot took over the show
Pretend- Elliot & Olivia
Screwed- the whole cast- Elliot, Olivia, Fin especially with Cragen and Casey not far behind;
Munch and Lake had good supporting roles too

Season 9
Alternate- whole cast
Avatar- whole cast
Impulsive- whole cast- Casey
Savant- whole cast
Harm- whole cast, Casey and Melinda
Svengali- whole cast
Blinded- whole cast until Elliot went on medical leave became Casey and Olivia
Fight- Fin and Lake
Paternity- whole cast, Olivia & Kathy
Snitch- whole cast
Streetwise- whole cast
Signature- Olivia and Lake
Unorthodox- Elliot and Munch
Inconceivable- whole cast but an Olivia episode
Undercover- Olivia
Closet- Olivia (with a little help from Elliot)
Authority- Elliot & Olivia with a little help from Casey
Trade- Elliot & Olivia
Cold- whole cast, Casey and Lake were more focused since it was their last episode

I have to note something- I barely remember Snitch...

I think you are missing my point completly. I am not talking about apperances. I'm talking about drama outside of cases. I could care less how many times Elliot, Olivia, hell even Kathy appear on the show as long as it deals with a case. I'm refering to the drama OUTSIDE of the cases. Great work though.

Yes. LOL But, apparently she's remaining a perpetual 17-year-old in the SVU world. I am ready for her to move on. Someone mentioned wanting to see the other kids...

Yeah.

Snitch was when we found out Elliot dated that lady from immigration. The case was mainly about them figuring out who the dead girl was who was being circumcised(I think thats the term).

I wasn't refering to your point, I was refering to the "Elliot/Olivia Show" posts to get the lowdown of it all.

Me too, Andrea. I wouldn't mind too much if it sounded interesting, but it does sound a little like they're reaching for something new to get our attention; it smacks a little of contrivance to me. But I am just going off of what has been proffered thus far quite cryptically by Neal. That's not really fair of me. There's a lot they can do, and it may end up being quite good. I'm crossing my fingers.

Oh. Sorry.

wow, you really did your homework

NB oughta revive the greatness of svu this season!

I still say bring the bantar back, the conversation, the friendships, and for Petes-sake bring back the licorice...lol

I'd love to see that !!

Fin got 2 eppies, and one of them just happened to be S8 finale, but no one has an issue with that? MH/Liv always gets the heat for same "infractions" other character/actors skate on. Fin's family screentime was related to the cases, so there is no biggie. Liv's family drama was tied to the cases as well as her history, but this is an issue? This basically boils down to - ENOUGH OF THE STABLER FAMILY DRAMA! I've had enough, and creating a story arc based solely on this does not sound like must see TV.




Sorry, but S7 (and a bunch of eppies from prior seasons) gets tops honors from me. Too many good eppies to ignore. Yeah a bit of personal stuff seaped in, but so what. After 7 years, I don't mind seeing other sides to these officers.


ANDREA

AMEN!!

i mean its not like i dont like elliot, but you gotta know when to quit, i only like el bringing up famiy problems at home, cuz liv is there to help!!

Ahahaha! Yes! Licorice = Good times, man!

i know! i luv that stuff

Well there's a bit of a difference. From the beginning, we knew right away that Elliot is a married family man while Olivia is a child of rape who didn't know the identity of her father, even tried to find him since season 1. Those two bases were the foundation base between those two main characters. Munch and Cragen's characters were already established by previous shows. Fin's character on the other hand; my understanding is that Ice-T was to be a temporary member so there really wasn't much to go on to be on the safe side (for example, how much really did we know about Brian, Monique, or even Chester? not that much!) but once it was decided to keep Ice-T on board they finally gave Fin a background other then his time in Narcotics so we can get to know him more as we did with Elliot, Olivia, John, and Cragen.
We still haven't seen where Fin lives- we've been in Elliot's home/bachelor pad, Olivia's apartment, Munch's apartment, Alex and Casey's too even. Cragen practically lives at the station house but he does have a house that was featured in Law & Order's The Blue Wall.

Also to note: Darius did his murders in the same jurisdiction as Manhattan's SVU while Simon's case was out of Manhattan's SVU's reach, which was why Olivia's career was on the line

Matter's not... Fin got 2 eppies, Liv got 2 eppies and we have been watching El's family's trials and tribulations for 9 years. Jurisdiction is irrelevant here.


ANDREA

Agreed.

Elliot's family "trials & tribulations" have been part of the show for nine years. What happens w/ his family almost always coincides w/ what is happening elsewhere in the episode w/ a case. W/ the exception of maybe the "kitchen sink" scene, which I still don't see how that classifies as "the Elliot Stabler show." I liked that scene, it showed him as a husband and father, which is how I feel the writers wanted us to see him from the beginning. Not just some raged out detective.

I understand how Olivia being a child of rape works with the show as well. And seeing episodes where she has had to deal with it and talk about it, I don't feel like that is drama, as those issues too, almost always coincide w/ a case. That, just like Elliot being a dad and husband, is just another dimension to her character.

"Philadelphia," "Florida," and "Inconceivable" were completely unnecessary. Those, IN MY OPINION, were definitely "The Olivia Benson Show." And they sucked. We don't really know why the writers have been going in this, what I feel, negative direction w/ Olivia's character. Had these episodes been written and done earlier in the series, they might have worked as an actual decent episode, rather than turning it into soap.

Some of you just want to continue saying that you are sick of seeing episodes focused solely on what you think to be Elliot/Elliot family drama. Fine. Alright. I will concede and give that to you. But not one of you have mentioned that you are tired of seeing Olivia drama.

I feel like this is going to start turning into one of those shipper debates, only the topic of discussion isn't E/O, it's E v. O. Today is June 4th. We still have 3 and a half mos. to go, and we are basing this discussion almost solely on Neal Baer's word, and really, how much has that been worth lately?

I don't think anyone feels that this has been the Elliot Stabler show because that would not be true. I, like others, just am tired of the ongoing Stabler family drama. I don't care about his family, and I don't wish to see that anymore. If they show El and Kathy just chilling for a few minutes or something in an eppy, that's fine. But I don't want any of that drama. And the 3 Liv eppies you mentioned, 3 out of 200??? What??? Are you kidding me?

And if this discussion is bothering you, feel free to pull out at any time.


ANDREA

i agree, even though i want them to, they really cant talk about liv that much, cuz theres nothing to talk about, i guess it wouldnt hurt them though to show simone at least once, so we at least know hes alive

he could be dead for all we know, or maybe he moved to japan, who knows??

Liv had more than two episodes. Liv's family drama started with the Pilot episode when she was talking with her mom in a bar. How is that is different than Elliot talking to his family at home? Liv spent time talking to Casey about her family problems during Intoxicated...Just pointing out a few off the top of my head...I don't have time to sit and pull all the episodes where she talked about her family b/c I have to teach karate now...but like I said before their family situations are what brought them to SVU in the first place and what keep them there...

And from the beginning, it has never been frontburner. Only until S8, did TIIC give it the PROPER airtime. You have a leading character with such a rich history, and when it's time to explore it, the audience should be given a footnote? Sorry, I don't agree with that.

You are guys are completely missing what we are saying. We like Elliot, but we don't like the Stabler drama. It's that simple.


ANDREA

I didn't say that the conversation was bothering me.

HUH?????


ANDREA

And that's why some people are sick of it. We want something new or hell, something else. We have seen him as a father and husband. Great for him. He has a wife, 5 kids and a happy home where he can have all the family drama he wants. The writers have been there and done that too many damn times. It gets old and we need to move on from it. Bringing more crap up is just annoying. The reason people are not tired of seeing Olivia drama is because it correlates with the show. Her drama is due to the cases. Elliot's are sometimes but the majority of the time it's 'boo-hoo Kathy left me' or 'woe-is-me women keep leaving me.' Your THREE examples of Olivia's episodes with her drama is three out of...203. Don't you think that's very minimal compared to Elliot's hundreds? Also, This discussion has nothing to do with shippers. I'm not really a shipper for anyone and I am sick of hearing about the Elliot family drama. I get the feeling you and others just don't like Olivia and are upset at the fact that others want her to have a life rather then continuing to hear about Elliot's.

Look, my main point is that I would rather hear about the cases then about personal crap. Sure it's nice once and a while but when it turns the show in to personal stuff rather then focusing on the cases, it may turn some people off. Elliot's family crap has been apart of SVU for 9 years and I am sick of hearing about it. Even if it's just mentioned, it's still being brought up. That's why I am glad the season finale didn't have personal crap in it; outside of Elliot and Fin's relationship going to crap that is. People are certainly going to like different things and I am certainly not trying to converge anyone. I just think focusing on person stuff is going to be a popular thing for SVU's probable last season and some people might not like it. I'm not sure this whole 'Elliot's family member will have a mental issue' is going to cut it for the viewers. Sorry if not all of you feel that way but, I think it's going to suck.

RATINGS people...ratings. The WRITERS, not actors/actresses, do what they feel they need to do to get ratings. Tell me I'm wrong, but before SVU even came out with season 1, Dick Wolf or Baer said "this is gonna deal with the more personal side of the detectives" hence, why we are getting all the personal stuff. Yeah, you may be sick of seeing Elliot/Olivia or whoever, but another person might love it. Elliot was a family man in season1 and sorta is now. Olivia was a child of a rape, but we didn't know anything about it. We knew Elliot had a family, how one of his kids wouldn't eat bacon at breakfast, but we didn't know Olivias father, siblings anything.