you know?
i agree completely with your analysis, callie119.
and you worded it perfectly, too. i couldn't add a word to this to make it better. and, you got me all gushy and smiley.
i sort-of came to the same conclusion after picking through season six.
they were. they must have been. her smile (the one in moark's signature pic?) and, well, 'blind spot'.
then they stopped.

and now i'm gonna go watch season eight in correct order.
i am certain to find a wealth of shippy delights. mmmmm. i can't wait.

tigger - sorry about all your sadness. i'm thinking about you over here beside the sea.
bogoalexea - keep writing!
hey kerli!!! - i hope school is excellent this year.

shippers rock.

I agree with uni, this is a pretty perfect explanation. Now I must rewatch Lady's Man for the 50th time.

I was wondering this for a while, just because Alex left Bobby two messages doesn't mean she didn't call him more than that. She may have called him but just didn't leave a message. If they made her leave 9 messages or so, then it would sound a little strange. Tigger gave an explanation for that, so whatever really happened, both ways can be considered shippy.





At all the lines that I bolded......::MEGATHUD::

And yes, scarlet, you can be the ship's resident hippie By the way, the latest chapter (11) in your fic was awesome, it was so sweet and...well I should just go over to Ff.net and review there, hehe. The song How Sweet It Is by Dean Martin reminds me of whenever Bobby & Alex are together, on-screen and in any shippy fic really

Tigger, that is nice that you spent time with your daughter and remembered your dad, I'm with uni and the others thinking about you beside the sea.



I hate bringing this up...about Bobby's past girlfriends and his 'type.' If Alex isn't really Bobby's type (although he loves her), but he can't get past that fact, what would that mean? Could he just forget about that because he loves her anyway, or would he want to stick to his 'type' instead? It makes me think that he might be attracted to another kind of woman, but also that he'd be an idiot for not seeing what a good woman Alex. It reminds me of the way he was around Nelda and Leslie (ugh.) I don't think he had real feelings for them at all, but he just seems charmed by their characters. I suppose Bobby will one day wake up and realize Alex is perfect for him and that they deserve each other anyway, like you said, so...

Oh, bogoalexea, did you also notice that long look Bobby gave Alex in ITWSH after she made that joke "...with a z?" He stares at her with eyes half-closed, mouth open, smiling after he blinks, and she is just looking at the laptop screen oblivious, haha.



Hey, footstepsontherun! If you'd like to join the USSRelationship, you are welcome aboard. That fence is looking kind of wobbly, why don't you jump down to the shipper's side in case? Only kidding, whatever your stance is, I'm glad you're enjoying it here. You mentioned the bands you like in your sig, I've heard Ruby by Kaiser Chefs, I like that song.
This was cute, by the way >> (Imagine Alex surprising Bobby [or vice versa] with a hug like this.)



Yes, I love that pic too. And if any of you have read uni's description of this scene, you'll love it even more...well maybe not you so much, ciaddict, hah.



I agree, Bobby wouldn't risk it or disobey Ross' orders, and they never implied that he did it either. You can tell he was relieved when the boss came in, and that there was no need to do it after the interruption. It was probably the writers way of showing us that, the one time that he got to or had to do it, he didn't.

Uni, that 'it's too late' comment has been bugging me a little, too. The forum that has the interview explaining it is closed for now. Even if it may seem like an un-shippy line, just look at how much the shippers have talked about Alex sticking with Bobby even after all they've been through. Her loyalty to Bobby just seems to blast that through that line and make it sort of meaningless. It doesn't look like she gave another thought to him 'ruining her career' or whatever, because well, she still wants to be his partner.

It's OK. I just stick my fingers in my ears and sing, "Lalalalalala"

It's actually already in the tells thread , uni. put it up!
I always wondered what the hell B/A would talk about on the phone; because obviously it wouldn't be job related while Bobby's suspended.
The moment where they had that fight next to the interrogation room near the end of "Purgatory", she was also pretty offended that he did even give her the courtesy of a phone call.... That whole scene rather shippy people She was awfully pissed off: that's a tell!
And I like it how Ross looked at both of them and when he got that phone call, he decided to take it outside; leaving them some time alone. Bobby couldn't take his eyes of her while Ross was there. And I really like it how Ross noticed that. When the captain looked at him he lowered his eyes for a bit... Goren was so cute in that scene (but kinda pathetic too...)


I know
And like a youtube comment said "Nobody can replace her Bobby"







Indeed, callie.'s analysis is making me feel all shippy right now
And to back your 'Blind Spot' theory, Goren's feelings for Eames were compared to boyfriend's for a girlfriend (I know I mentioned this already but I just had to say it again )
Season 6 premiere did actually show us a change in their relationship but...


Yeah, I like what you think about Nelda and Leslie... I thought of that too.
Let's imagine that Eames isn't primarily Bobby's type. Well, people do date people who aren't their types especially if they have some awesome chemistry like B/A do. The type thing is really not an obstacle (imho)

And that's the ITWSH moment I was talking about!





Right on

First of all, I apologize in advance for the long post. You know I'm never at a loss for words.

Ah, type, schmype. That’s the point with love—it’s irrational and makes you forget about your “type”. My “type” was a guy over 6’, had to be a musician/actor, and had to live in a relatively large city. I married a guy 5’7” (5’ 7’’ and a half, he used to remind me ), can’t carry a tune in a bucket, has stage fright, and needed to live in what was for me the middle of nowhere in order to take care of his parents. “Type” went out the window.

Bobby left Alex, not the other way around. A psychologist friend of mine once told me when a woman leaves, say, an alcoholic husband, we all say “she left him”, but that’s not what happened. He left her first with his behavior, until she finally had enough and left.

Best part about Lady’s Man is the ending when Mulrooney makes a ref about “you’ll never find a woman as strong as Gabby” directed at Bobby, then Bobby shoves him and hands the cuffs to Alex. That’s the tell—I’m sorry Alex, this is about you not me, I respect you and your strength, I’m thinking about you first. That’s the reconciliation Alex needs—Bobby to change his behavior from his clammed-up depressed self-absorption so he can be open enough to be with her. I know she takes him back—they’re soulmates.

Callie, you made me all sniffly, in a good way. Your analysis is spot-on! But I think the on-but-then-off physical relationship may have started earlier, like around the time of Silver Lining, especially given the “Have you ever been in love?” line from the female perp. I don’t think that just referred to Joe since Alex’s reaction was the dig on Bobby re: all he cares about is his job. I'd have to rewatch eps in season 7 to see when I think it went "off"; in Vanishing Act, they seemed "on" (well, maybe), and I still am leaning toward a physical reconciliation in Betrayed.

I do think they were off at the start of season 8. scarlet is right about the “he should have been in touch with his girlfriend” idea, and I think that explains their rather awkward reunion at the ferry terminal, especially on Bobby’s part, although she is happy to see him.

Speaking of season 8, I thought about this last night. Faithfully, the season opener, starts with them both visiting family (although, CURSE YOU, USA NETWORK ::meaning to yell:: for not showing us the interaction between Alex and Liz). Bobby is involved in a prayer: bless us Lord and this food—this is what’s important in life: family and having what you need to sustain you. Then he and Alex meet up, coming together from different directions, to work together again, on a case involving faith and family. The finale for Goren/Eames for season 8 is Family Values. So we start with faith and family, we end with faith and family.

Stuck amidst this, of course, is killing. In Catholicism, you can violate the commandment “thou shalt not kill” in both literal and figurative ways. You can “kill” with words—fighting, anger, slander. You can “kill” with discord and a lack of peace, and you can “kill” a good relationship (i.e., one that would please God) through neglect and omitting to care for it. But when the “killing” stops, then “Nearer My God to Thee”, yes? Just because Bobby’s a lapsed altar boy doesn’t mean he’s lost the rudiments of his faith (see itty bitty cross as a gift for Alex). What does Bobby say to Devildis? Something along the lines of “if there is a God and you are his servant, then why are you killing the people that you love?” Bobby needs to have peace within himself before he can bring peace and reconciliation to his relationship with Alex. Once he gets there, they can resume their relationship stronger than before. And I think from the subtext and how his healing has progressed, he is definitely there by the finale.

Just my musings this AM. Hope y’all are well!

Callie, you come in here and give us a lot of great things to think about and a timeline that seems to fit perfectly with what we get to see . You rock!

I don't buy into the Bobby "type" scenario. His caring and devotion to Eames transcends all typing.

The two of them taking a break when Bobby had all his "personal" issues certainly makes things so much clearer. It would explain why I think Eames is the shippier of of the two. I've only mostly seen later eps and when Bobby starts pulling away from Alex, you can see her hurt and desparation. Purgatory anyone??

And speaking of Purgatory, the "water carrier" scene seems very passionate to me. I know there is a lot of hurt and anger in that scene, but I also feel like there is a ton of underlying sexual tension too. When Eames says "I hope it was worth it." C'mon now folks! I hope it was worth what?!? Think about it! I know I know, noromos will say that the line was about jeapordizing the partnership. But if you plug in callie's timeline....Hmmm. Seems like there's a little more to it than that.

ooohhh! yummy lively shippy conversations here today!!! mmmmmmm!!!

miss scarlet, i agree with you here.

Bobby's 'type'????? (if we are going by those episodes) are women like Nelda-the-cold-blooded-murderer-Carlson and Leslie 'i'm a reptile' LeZard. and Nicole Wallace - let's not forget her. yuck and ew. yeah, there was Irene in 'enemy within' but i didn't get the feeling that he was all that sad about her future real estate plans ... and i've already said that i'm not all that sure his alibi of 'Denise' the Chief of D's assistant in 'badge' was all that Eames assumed it was, either. (he looks so ... pained.)
i'm a lone voice, i know, but i still don't believe for a second that he was interested in Nelda. everything he said to her was for Eames' benefit.
and Nicole Wallace fascinated him, but that isn't the same thing as sexual or romantic attraction.
and Leslie threw herself at him. can't fault a hungry person for liking food, can we?

what Eames doesn't have in common with any of those women is that she never uses her sex to get where she's going. (or, if someone knows of scenes and eps in which Eames lowers her voice seductively (like Nelda) or flirts or bats her eyelashes or shows cleavage (like Nicole) or whatever, let me know. ...?) the big eyed 'save me Bobby' routine Lizard girl uses? I imagine Eames would rather gouge her own eyes out than behave like that to get a man (especially her partner) to notice her - unless it's an undercover tactic she's using for a case.

but this is a part of how i see Eames - she isn't really into the experience of being 'helpless' even for a show of femininity ... rather the opposite. she has gathered the fabric of her entire life around maintaining a position of authority and being in control. i figure she's gotta be a tough nut to crack, but he seems like he's up for the challenge. heck, we know he is. here's that proof again, because we never have enough decoration around here.
*THUD!!*

(so we know they get all better ... because they do. )

but the 'water carrier' thing ... i'm still so deeply pondering that the same phrase comes first from Leslie LeZard.
when she says it, Eames evokes that whole episode and everything that happened during that case, and for me, everything that transpired since -

long aside >[ 'smile' had a really heavy side plot about mothers with mental illnesses, and poverty, and the (real or imagined) sexual abuse of children, not to mention that the kids only very drank the damn mouthwash in the first place to get high because of all the sad reasons kids start getting high, etc. then 'depths' in which everybody keeps reminding Eames that she doesn't conform to the 'attractive woman' standard, or 'self-made' which bleeds layers of angst about mentors and prodigies and loyalty and betrayals, and then we arrive at 'untethered' and all hell breaks loose and Eames is alone with her thoughts for six months - thoughts which are clearly about her partner ... ]

- because obviously she's been thinking about it, or she wouldn't have parroted Leslie so perfectly like that ... every word that icky lizard said has been bouncing around in her mind ever since. so i'm wondering about the dripping sexual tension in the 'purgatory' confrontation scene, and exactly what "I hope it was worth it" means, too??? it does indeed seem like there's way more to it than that.

or - 'yeah! what scarlet said.' lol.

i bet ciaddict's metaphorical cyber fingers aren't really in her metaphorical cyber ears ... but i'm not telling.

hey everybody!!! i think im gonna come over here to the shipper side - yall have better cookies! ha ha! it does seem like you guys have more fun tho. so anyway im a shipper. i have not been watching LOCI for very long. in fact one of the first epi i saw was lady's man. and i just knew that they were sleeping together because 1) you dont ASK that question unless you think its your business and 2) you dont ANSWER that question unless you think its the person's business who asked. but all my LOCI friends said no no they arent sleeping together. yeah right you just wait and see. it will come out that they've been together for awhile. just wait and see. so anyway i then saw frame. which didnt make much sense because i hadnt seen blind spot. so i watched blind spot. and what a wonderful epi that was. love the angst on bobby's face THUD....and alex rescues herself... you go girl! so after i recoved from the extreme shippyness i got to thinking about frame. and what struck me was declans' reaction to eames. i mean he doesnt like her. there was no "sorry that my daughter kidnapped you and tried to kill you". instead he accuses her of framing bobby and gives the door a little "good riddance" shove when she leaves the interrogation room. so why the hate?? i read the wikepidia review and it talked about bobby choosing his partner over his mentor in blind spot. so i figured that that was it. declan was bobby's father figure that he never had growing up. but then declan got booted out of bobby's favored chair to make way for eames. and he (declan) resented it. however he didnt get "rid" of eames (like he did nicole and frank) because he knew that eames wasnt "bad for bobby". in fact he tells her that she knows everything about bobby and "cares deeply for him" . so declan knows the real deal - just like us!!!! then i watched the untethered arc. and i'll just say that bobby getting SO angry at frankies' remark about taking eames to a motel could only be two things 1) bobby saw it as a slur on her honor or 2) bobby DOES wanna take her to a motel (cruise would be better). so anyway in the meantime ive watched most of the seasons 1-7 and i got to smile.... wow i had a hard time reconciling that epi with the newer stuff .... until i thought about it and heres what i came up with. (i posted most of this in the smile thread -but i didnt know it was closed... please bear with me.) so anyway i was shocked by the ending. at first i really felt kind of betrayed by what eames said to bobby. but then i started to think about it. there are MANY parallels between the end of this episode and the scene in Purgatory where bobby and alex have their famous "I just carry your water" scene. in fact parts of it are almost word for word. i think in smile that eames was just being brutally honest. in fact she might have been trying to "wake" bobby up from his potential nosedive. she knows bobby. she knows that somewhere down the line if he doesnt shape up hes gonna sink and take her down with him. (and he almost does in untethered.) the fact that shes still there means thats where she wants to be. i mean come on girls (you know what im talking about) no girl stays unless thats exactly where she wants to be. (at least not for long.) eames could have walked out a long time ago. bobby goren is a model from sherlock holmes, eames is his watson. one of the character traits from this type of character (be it holmes or bobby) is the inability to see how his actions affect those closest to him. (house md has this problem too. another model from holmes) all of these characters have this tunnel vision, they are so focused on the goal that sometimes for them the ends justify the means. unfortunalty the people who love them the most are the ones that get hurt the most. eames gets "tainted" from bobby's exploits in untethered. ross too. which, interestingly enought, she doesnt complain about. what she DOES complain about is the fact that she was not told by him that he was undercover. i think she is more upset that she "could have killed him" or that he was in a situation that he could have been killed than the fact that he had gone undercover. and while im on the subject i think that the reason he didnt tell her was because he knew she would disapprove and he needs/wants her approval. (she is his "audience", the only one that he really talks to, his "partner" see F.P.S.) he really really wanted to go undercover - so he doesnt tell her. sneaky bobby...

so anyways thats my two cents and thats about what its worth!

Go go tigger.!!!
Indeed, love is a irrational thing...


Amen!


In the earlier seasons it does seem that Bobby is more into her. In fact, I believe his family problems kinda clouded his process ...
And that line in "Purgatory"---- "you could of fooled me detective, I hope it was worth it", I never really got it. I mean I really don't know what she meant by that. An explanation, please???




WOW!... I'm practically speechless at this speech!!!
The ones that are underlined are the ones I'm the most *THUD* at!!!
Insightful shipper

One more thing. A shippy thought occurred to me
Bobby was pushing her to talk it out in "Amends" while he was driving, isn't that sweet???
And when Eames was confiding, she came to say something close to "...without him (Joe) there wasn't a place for me anymore..." But that has changed (wasn't past tense)... Was she indirectly telling Bobby that he made her feel that she belonged again???

This analysis is certainly worth more than two cents
You have a lot of great points jr003, and I'm sure I speak for the others when I say there is plenty of room on the ship. So come aboard! Drink the Kool-Aid and put on your shipping blue track-suit. There's pudding for dinner..... JK at least about the pudding and track suits and Kool-aid

Anyhow... your Sherlock Holmes comparison is spot on. I also really like your take on the end of Smile. Eames trying to wake Bobby up. I think so many of us shippers were left cold by her words and tone at the end of Smile. Even noromos were left a little confused. Because at the very least, shippers and noromos alike, we know Eames and Goren care for each other. But that explanation makes her comments seem a little less out of left field.

Oh, and the infamous Frank Goren "take her to a motel" comment. That comment was completely for audience benefit. It had no reason to be there other than to show us one of the two things jr003 mentioned, Basically it was there to unmask the unseen. The unseen being Bobby and Alex's deeper feelings for one another.



That's exactly it bogoalexea! What did she mean? I hope it was worth it.... What was "it"? The fact that he threw away her trust and love and the possibility of a decent relationship, by keeping things from her to get his shield. Was that what it was worth? Because I can't really see her meaning much else than that. That little comment tells me so much. It tells me they either were involved or Eames is assuming Bobby knows her feelings run deep.

there are too many things to comment on over the past few days. which is good! the ship is active!! i will start with this; if you haven't seen all the early episodes, you just have to. they are so excellent. i can't find a season i don't love in it's own right (except season eight, and never mind). they are so playful in season one - they both smile all the time, and tease each other, too. there is a rhythm to the way they solve cases, and all the 'getting to know you' subtext ... mmmm. watching and searching around for shippy tells is so much fun. (noromo guests all scream and cover their eyes)
AND it doesn't even matter if i don't find any, because they're just so darn excellent to watch. (today saw 'yesterday' -lol- and it's a creepy freaking episode and vdo is so good. it's still an outstanding way to waste an hour of my day.)
i can't seem to access season four, but i hear it's coming out on dvd soon, so that should help.

welcome aboard to jr003! we have nanaimo bars.

and you have a fabulous shippy analysis. more, please. any subject. pick one! everybody is so full of insight.

"You could have fooled me, Detective. I hope it was worth it."
2cents: well, partly she's lashing out - can't blame her. she's pretty freaking upset, and just barely managing to keep her crap together. (superbly played by KE) i think she's lashing out because she says something that isn't true when she tells him 'all his wounds are self inflicted'. that's not entirely true. he didn't make the nypd see him as a 'whack job'. he's just being himself. but, it's that reputation (and ross' attitude) that is in large part to blame for where they are at that moment. and, he shouldn't have been suspended for so long - eames says so to daniels. crikey, even daniels heard he 'snapped'. gossip, gossip, gossip. he is being targeted for punishment over and above because he's weird and his coworkers and superiors don't like him. but eames - she likes him. her focus on him and loyalty to him is front and center throughout the episode.
(as in her sigh at his empty chair, and 'just until goren gets back' and my personal favourite, 'get your boots off my partner's desk.' etc.)
so what does he go and do?
even if she could get past the monumental lie-of-omission not telling her he's undercover in her case, she could have shot him. her dead husband. issues. he couldn't have picked a better thing to do to hurt her if he was trying.

so, i think she's telling him that she believes he doesn't care about her because that's what he just demonstrated with his behaviour.
nothing at all to do with work, straight up personal.
and that - imho- is an open door. it's almost an invitation.
it leaves lots of room for him to do something about it. he must do something pretty darn amazing to have earned that early Monday morning desk-top snuggle watching Avery play with her mala beads ...

here it is again. nope, i just don't get tired of knowing he makes it up to her.

re: smile
maybe she means now "it's too late" is because now she's in love with him. it's what we all want it to mean, isn't it? just saying.

I like that!





Believe me or not fellow shippers, when I first watched "Smile", I actually thought that she was really just warning him. But after, the thought just left my mind. I mean if it weren't for jr003's awesome analysis, I would of totally forgotten about that way of looking at that scene. I think I'm gonna stick with it now

And as for Frank's famous inquiry ("Why don't you...."), I always wondered why the hell it was inserted there. I mean, hey, Eames wasn't even in the picture, you know? It was just the two brothers.... It's like if the writers are insisting on the fact that Bobby might have stronger feelings than friendship for Eames... This insistence just makes you wonder




"I hope it was worth it"
So you guys are saying that Eames meant that she 'hopes' what they built together was worth (or deserved) what he did. Like their relationship didn't deserve a better treatment.




Amen!

Here is my translation of "You could have fooled me detective. I hope it was worth it."

You could have fooled me detective-Pretty much means just that. She's so hurt she doesn't believe his plea that he didn't mean for things to turn out this way for her, that he didn't plan it. And the use of the word "detective" is such a tell. Whenever these two feel betrayed by one another, they call each other detective. From a psychological standpoint, I feel they do this to illustrate how impersonal and hurtful the betrayal feels to them. You only let a person know you feel this way when you have a deeply personal relationship and it feels violated by certain behaviors. Long story short, it means they love each other....duh!

I hope it was worth it- I feel this is Eames saying. Well Bobby I hope getting your sheild back, was worth hiding things from me and causing me great emotional turmoil when I almost blew your brains out. I hope it was worth putting a possibly un-erasable scar on our partnership and relationship.

I do think she was really po'd and count me in on the folks who think "All your wounds are self-inflicted" as being pretty over the top, harsh. That's not entirely true and Eames knows that. But she was hurt and let it rip.

awwwww thanks guys for making me feel welcome!!! id been reading for a while and had finally decided in joining the fray!! hope the kool-aid is grape or orange. my favs! what fun!! so anyway i was thinking about bobby's "type".... and i came up with a theory. welll... several actually... first off i think that bobby suffers from low self-esteem. i know i know hear me out yall.... (throw something soft plz) haha! i mean how could he have not suffered from low self-esteem?? look at his mom - she was one incredible piece of work. she favored frank over him. and i dont buy into the explaination that bobby gave declan about his mom preferring frank because frank couldnt take care of himself blah blah. i think that it was because she knew that bobby was concieved by brady. so therefore he wasnt a legitamate son. she probably didnt get an abortion because it was the 60s and religious reasons. she didnt abandon him because she probably wanted to keep up appearances. but poor bobby had to pay for it all his life. the husband probably knew he wasnt his too and rejected him for that reason. you can see it in that one epi where the two brothers get killed and the father keeps saying "my son died" and bobby says "you had two sons" that bobby took that case personally. in those few epi where we do see his mom she puts him down so badly it makes you wanna cry. but he puts up with it and keeps trying to please her. in the war at home i got the feeling that the whole elevator scene between bobby and eames was an old argument. (yall know.. where eames asks "youre gonna throw it all away?" and he tells her to "back off") im sure that eames had sized up mrs goren real quick. i doubt that she was nasty about it but im sure she had something to say about his realtionship with his mom. maybe how she was treating him. eames certainly had no qualms about telling frank how she felt. but back to mrs goren... frank can do no wrong in her eyes even tho hes not even in the picture. i would imagine that bobby went into the army to "escape" his home life. frank probably had the potential and blew it all on drugs. bobby in the meantime meets declan and finds his calling in life - criminal profiling. he finds the father he never had. he joins the police force and comes into his own. so then eventually he meets eames. im sure he probably had girlfriends here and there but i think that eames was different than most of the girls he dated. he was probably very different than guys she hung around. i mean look at what little we knew about joe. he was probably VERY popular in school. he had a lot of cop buddies. he was probably strait-laced, handsome, good home, good school, good money, and pretty boring (come on he wasnt bobby! ). but she liked him. then she meets bobby the loner. and hes eccentric, bad family, diverse background and he talks about stuff she doesnt know about. (im not sure why but it always irritates folks when you are interested in things they dont know about) so anyway at first polar opposites. he was probably thinking that she was above his reach. self-esteem thing. i think that she eventually came to appreciate him because he could solve cases and was a "good cop". he likes her because she strong, opinionated, stable and normal. then as time goes on he starts to depend on her more and more.. until in FPS we see him almost have a break-down because shes not there to catch his mistake. hes almost mumbling incoherently in that one scene. plus i dont think that he looks at her as much as he does just because he likes looking at her.. i think its more of a "im ok, youre ok" kind of gesture. he gauges his reaction based on her reaction. hes come to rely on her as a kind of human barometer on things in his life. if she doesnt get excited about things (which she never does- well hardly ever) then hes ok and the more he trusts her. so he has this dependancy thing going - but shes such a strong woman she doesnt really need him and bobby likes to be needed. thats where the "type" comes into play. you see his need to be needed when hes always "helping people" with groceries, and planting flowers, etc. you see it with the girls he likes. they all play the "poor defenseless little 'ole me" card. and he falls for it. if hes needed then hes validated. self-esteem goes up. but they all turn out to be liars and eames is still there. and i think that gradually bobby has grown more comfortable in his own skin to the point where he can ask eames (because he has the right to!) "did you sleep with him?". the bobby from seasons 1-7 would not have been able to do that. so he loves her -always has but he had to come to the point where he was comfortable with himself first. shes very intimidating! but on the other hand she was certainly jealous of him but i think that she held back b/c...well i dunno - shes harder to read. possibly she wasnt over joe? she was scared to take the chance?? i dunno... i think that ross had/has the idea that they like each other more than just friends because of that scene in silencer. ross tries to get her interested in the interpretor guy. i think he sees it and thinks that bobby is too unstable. whew... sorry so long. and if you guys dont agree thats ok. im not totally convinced on all my points myself. and after all it is a fictional character! haha!!!

we only throw compliments and speculation around.

you fit right in. you sound a lot like me when i first showed up. lol. a lot.
i floated around in my canoe for awhile. then Admiral Rabeka Jr. and moark/kerli saw me floundering and welcomed me aboard the Ship. it's a friendly place. i think we have a 'no throw zone' here.
i completely agree with almost everything you wrote. we have so much the same brain there's no point in splitting hairs over the rest.
(except i think frances loved bobby in her way.)
i am an eames fan. my analyses tend to focus on her and her potential motivations, which is a tantalizing and frustrating process. so much suggestion, all alone without proof at its side.
but i'd like to add - because i agree with your analysis of his previous attractions to 'helpless women' - imo bobby has now seen eames very vulnerable a number of times. and heard from kevin mulrooney that she cried for poor dead joe. i think she fulfills that criteria by default. and, imho, i think eames' biggest secret is that, even with a gold shield and huge gun and the authority to kick in doors and shoot and kill people, she is still aware of being and feels vulnerable. and she would like to feel safe, cared-for, taken care of. (not much of a secret. who doesn't?) imo, she sticks with him because he makes her feel safe. (except for during that red hook undercover pointing a gun at him pointing a gun at her thing - his little way of demonstrating that he'd take a bullet for her??)
well, i know everybody has their own theory about this. when i stack up all the not-so-great things that have happened to eames over the past whatever years, it's a pretty big stack. she might be getting tired of being strong all the time.

i LOVE how you've presented your point about 'the question' in 'lady's man' - "he asks because he has a right to." THUD!! very compelling. even my noromo husband says that ep is shippy. then he bugs me about calling things 'shippy' and 'noromo'.
aahhhh (said like homer simpson) .... FPS. aaahhhhhh .... silencer. gonna go watch shippy episodes, make shippy screen stills. decorate the ship ...

Hello, shippers!

jr003, I just want to add my welcome to the ship! You can sign up for a position on the ship by asking RabekaJr--she's the captain of the USS Relationship and she's here at least once per week. Our current crew list is in the LOCI shipping info and recruiting thread.

I brought everyone some Maryland crab cakes and some Folie a Deux wine:


Wow--so much to talk about, so much to think about . . . .

re: the "I hope it was worth it" line, I agree with scarlet and uni (and anyone else I may have missed ). The line is flat-out personal. She's saying "you chose your job and obeying the brass (the brass!) over me"--that also comes through in her response to his "I had to follow the rules" lame-o explanation. And she knows how much he loves to follow rules and adores the brass -- wtf? So it's a question and a challenge then to him: "Do you still love me, Bobby? How much do you love me?" Because it's obvious how much she loves him.

"All your wounds are self-inflicted"--I always thought that reeked of personal stuff also. Yeah, a lot of his job-related problems are his own fault, lately because he can't handle his family stuff at work (starting with TWAH, and why he goes to Tates in the first place). But having to endure the wounds of even having a schizophrenic mom die of cancer, getting no help from a no-good, favored, drunken waste-of-a-brother, and perhaps having his father be a serial killer? None of that is his own doing, and she knows that, so multiple OUCHes when she says that. I hope I'm wrong and she's not going there, but that was what I thought the first time I saw Purgatory. They both have stuff to make up to each other, if that's the case. Multiple nights of reconciliation are in order.

When I think about the most difficult episodes for them as a twosome, I see the one being level-headed when the other gets too emotional. So Amends and Lady's Man--she gets too emotionally involved, but he's there to keep things impartial and on track. Endgame and Frame, he's too emotional to handle the work and she's the calm one. In Purgatory, they aren't working together, and he's avoiding speaking to her, which is problem #1--they don't do well apart anyway, especially considering how they emotionally balance each other out. She's been thinking about "Bobby, Bobby, Bobby" and he's been thinking about nothing but himself: "I'm gonna lose my badge" (instead of "I'm gonna lose my Alex"). After the revelation that he's been undercover, these underlying emotions come out and all hell breaks loose. Just my 2 cents.

O... I get it now


Yay! You're back again
I totally agree with you on the low self-esteem thing. And I used to think about that abortion theory too. Watching those moments where we see how stressed out he is on trying to help his mom, and that's kind of treatment he gets from that poor woman; it's just sooooo painful to watch really And he still doesn't give up on his mom: awesome! I love Bobby!!!
In "Frame" where he said that his mom thought that he could take of himself is bull. And he knows it; he was just trying to make excuses for her (what a heartbreaking scene btw ). And yes, he did blame himself for his mom favoring his brother (low-self esteem theory kicking in again)
Here are some more arguments to back up the low-esteem theory,
1) "Suite Sorrow"-- I know how it's like to have your judgment, your sense of security undermined by your parents" and he added something close to "they mistrusted your judgment to the point that you couldn't even trust it yourself"
2) "Mad Hops"--- we learned that he played basketball to get his father's attention. He probably thought he was too boring for his dad that's why the SOB wasn't around...
3) "Silencer"-- Well, he was clearly jealous in that ep. And later on in season 8 "Alpha Dog", Bobby and the bad guy (can't remember his name) had a little discussion on jealous. And one of the reasons behind jealously is low-self esteem...


Yes, I always thought that going to the army was a way for him to get away from the madness. And yeah, Frank went the wrong way unfortunately...

And talking about "The War at Home", I think that Bobby told her to back off not because she was reprimanding him but because she was about to empathize with (or pity) him. He really didn't want her to go there (jmho)...


You're awesome! I thought of that concerning Joe: nice!
Exactly, the more the years go by with Eames by his side the more dependent he becomes on her. This situation could be compared to prescription glasses ... Before you have them, your eyesight is find by you but when you start wearing the glasses a lot, you come to realize how much you need them. If you lose them, you have the impression that your eyes have gotten worst; but no, you just got too used to the glasses on.
Well I bet you get the idea fellow shippers
I adore what you said about F.P.S: totally!!!...

Interesting opinion, never thought of it that way...


Totally, Bobby has definitely became more open lately. The "old Bobby" would never there ask her such a blunt question...
As for Ross in "Silencer" , I like that! He was pretty willing for her to hook up with Peter, but idk
Indeed, Eames is pretty hard to read. I believe either she was holding back or she was thinking she could get over her crush ...that's a tough one!

"do you still love me ...?" = MEGATHUD!

and

Yes! i agree! NOT entirely his fault and she's lashing out. she's really really pissed off (devastated, really).
it's eames. that's as much as she's ever going to emote.

Exactly, she did prefer Frank but that doesn't mean that she didn't like Bobby. Well, in "Endgame", we have a few moments of love and concern from her:
1) "OMG, there's Bobby the prodigal son"... Did you guys see that welcome? So sweet and touching! Even Bobby was surprised at that welcome (a rush before the end)It always brings me to tears.
2) The fact that she wanted to meet his girlfriend...
3) Near the end, where he was by her side on her death bed "... it seems like you're not taking care of yourself... Hey, your hair's gray. When did that happen?"


Well put uni. ! She really doesn't like to be seen as vulnerable. She puts on a tough color like a chameleon.



Thanks tigger.! Right time, I was just starving
Wow--so much to talk about, so much to think about . . . .





Nice explanations

OK, can I take my fingers out of my ears and stop singing "lalalalalala" to address just this ONE thing? Please? It's neither shippy nor nonshippy...it's just about Bobby, Frank, and their mom. I totally agree that Frances loved Bobby in her own way. I have thought for a long time that her "preference" for Frank had nothing to do with the strength of her feelings for either of her sons...I think she loved them both. But I think that because she knew that Bobby wasn't going anywhere, that she couldn't chase him off no matter how crazy or unkind she was...she felt safe to vent her fear and anger over her mental illness and her cancer only with him. Frank, on the other hand, was not dependable. Who knew when she would see him. She certainly knew that she couldn't depend on him to take care of her. So she had to praise him. She had to make excuses for him. She had to do whatever she could to entice him to visit her. She could rage at Bobby, say unkind things to him, take him for granted....and she knew he would call her on the phone the next day and be there to visit the following week. My position is that Bobby was actually the favored son, in that she knew he was the one who would always be there for her. AND....when she heard that Bobby had a girlfriend (no matter how wrong the information was), she wanted to meet this woman. Think she EVER wanted to meet Frank's "old lady"?

OK, I will now return you to your regularly scheduled shipping.

::places fingers in ears:: Lalalalalalala

Interesting take on this "favored son" topic...
However, I still think that Frank was the real favored one because of the reason Declan stated: Bobby was a possible bastard. And whatever Brady did to her, I bet that often enough she was reminded of it by just looking at Bobby. I mean, sometimes her thoughts might of drifted to "Is he really the fruit of this monster?" And the fact that she didn't know for sure, had to mess up her mind even more...
And why wouldn't she want to see Frank's "old lady"? Well, Frank wouldn't let her know about this "old lady" because he wouldn't want her to know in what state he is (homeless). We saw in "Endgame" how he dressed up for her. But if Frank told her that he had a girlfriend, I bet she'd be willing to meet her.

In "Brother's Keeper", was Frances in denial when she said "if your brother were here he would of taken better care of me"? Well, maybe... I think she did believe that Frank would do a better job or she just would like to think so... but idk

Bottom line, I believe that Frank was favored because his father couldn't be such a monster. For Bobby she had doubts. And I think doubts do mess people up sometimes (especially an already mentally ill person...)

Don't get me wrong though, she loved both of her sons...

ciaddict - you are wise. and, if you ever wanna wear two hats, i'm sure we can use a master chef over here
i completely agree with your analysis. i'd say it's shippy, too, but the shippers can already tell, and i want you to feel welcome to chirp in anytime, so i won't point that out.

frances likely harboured terrible guilt and shame for the accident of bobby's paternal heritage. the internal conflict would have been tremendous - her wonderful son, the child of that person. (which reminds me ... Aunt Connie's family must be Frances' family, because both Molly and Donny look like Bobby, which they wouldn't if she was MFB's fam.)
and frances was in love with MFB, wasn't she? oi. the layers.
they haven't really discussed the degree to which her mental illness was caused by very bad brain chemistry that resulted from her sexual assault and torture. but, we know that prolonged emotional and psychological stress can and does make women nuts.
i loved that she was straight with him about it (a deathbed confession, i guess) and her death scene always makes me cry. and, i can't imagine her having a 'real' relationship with frank, either.

Gonna disagree with you on this one. Frank is the favored son. Which is why she treats Frank as she does, and why he can get away with anything.

Many of you know I've had Bobby Goren's life: untreated bipolar mother (sometimes hallucinating) and an absent alcoholic father. Please, I'm not saying this for pity, that's the way it is. Sky is blue, water is wet, this is my family. My sister "Carol", the middle child, was the favorite and it was obvious. One trite example that illustrates my point: when Carol graduated from college, hundreds of dollars were spent at that bookstore on clothes, drinking glasses, stickers, etc. When I graduated, dad bought a coffee mug. (C'mon, alcoholic dad, can't I even interest you in this shot glass???) And we both went to well-known good 4 year private schools. Again, not trying to look bitter even though it may be coming across that way, but that's the kind of stuff that happened.

The favoritism started when we were young children. In my family it seemed to stem from 1--Carol has a higher IQ than me (though not significantly), but she became "the smart one" who would certainly become "the most successful one" and 2--my mother was herself the middle child, and she believed that in her family she continually got the short end of the stick, so she overcompensated by favoring Carol and letting the chips fall wherever for me.

Fast forward, and we grew up. Carol went far far away, as in "Asia", checked in infrequently, and only returned home once per year. I stayed relatively close to home, visited often, and checked in at least weekly. Whenever Carol came home to visit, there was a ginormous party, and jusitifiably so I guess--she was only home once per year (now it's once every 2 - 3 years). In present tense, I'm still the one who takes care of the family, and she comes in and out of our lives. The family can make excuses for Carol not being around because she is the favorite. I forget how the topic came up, but when she came home to say goodbye to my father, she floored me when she said to me, "I'm the favorite. I can get away with murder." Yup. Pretty much.

You build your role in the family from a young age, so Bobby's always going to be the "good boy" no matter how much he gets pooped on, and Frank is always going to do whatever the eff he wants, because he can. It didn't change when they grew up. It's not like Frances thought "Oh, I can give Bobby more grief because he'll always come back" or "I have to entice Frank to come around more". She behaves the way she does because Frank is favored and Bobby is not. If Bobby didn't visit, Frances' reaction would be "I knew you wouldn't come", not a "wow, you're here!" reaction to encourage him to keep coming back. bogoalexea asserts that the favoritism is based on Bobby's parentage, and I think she is correct. At the time they were kids, Frances had no idea who was gonna be there for her and who wasn't. She's not going to change her treatment of her kids now that she's dying. There are different family standards of behavior for "the favorite" vs. "the rest", and the interaction between the 3 shows this. It doesn't mean "the rest" aren't loved; the standards are just different.

I will also agree with bogoalexea on the issue of Frank's girlfriend. Frances would have met her in a heartbeat were she not homeless. Frank can't bring the girlfriend around because it reveals the secret no one wants to tell mom about Frank's true situation. Bobby lies for Frank on Frances' birthday, so nobody's letting that cat out of the bag.

Hey I'm just quick checking in, then I'm going to go.

Hmm... Whats' new?

My first volleyball pratice was on wensday... My first game was on Thursday. (D: ) Then I had a tourney today.

We havent' won a single game yet. D: but that's okay.

I've been playing the sims quite alot lately.

I hate choir.

My art and science teachers are cute. ( )

I hate shop. (Boring! And i leanred alot of this stuff in the 6th grade, not sure if the rest did yet tho.)

Um... what else?

Oh yeah... I won't be on the boards for a while. (So email me if you have my email (if you don't, PM me), and dont' put ANY of my names on that ID list)

Ohh yea.. When I played on thursday, my hand was SOOOO swollen! And it hurt to move it. And now it's just bruised... But today it didn't swell at all. Yay!!

My birthday is in a month...

And even if I'm not on the boards at this time.... I am still staking my claim on Bobby for that day. You guys get him the rest of the 364 (or 365 in leap year) days in the year. I want him for this one day... Then he's yours guys! yours! If anybody would like to join us that probably would be okay.

And yes everybody, i am very well.

I don't really have much else...

Sooo..

~kerli~ signing out!

Tigger, can a NOROMO give you a hug?

Kerli! Hi! Glad to see you! And I'm glad there are some cute teachers to distract you from the hated shop class.

And you don't need your name on any list...we know who you are.

I know... but I don't like that list. O.o It might've not been so hated... if you were the one that started it...? O.o

Thanks.

Yes Mr. Daniel Ludvigon is VERY cute... hehe. He wears suits, and dress shirts. I'm still waiting for him to wear the red dress shirt. *melts*

And Mr. Nordberg (swedish) is like '6"6... wow... he's actually taller than Bobby. O.o

Do i even know why I'm replying here, and not via email? ohhh yes now i remember why. hehe.



~kerli~

Suits and dress shirts? I don't suppose he wears a tie clip?

OMG he wore a clip on tie the other day.

"Lud why are you wearing a clip on tie?" (Another student)

Mr. L. "it's usefull for using the potterywheel"

"Why?"'

"Because *wraps tie against neck, like it's choking him. pretending to* Of that."

I haven't noticed any actuall tie clips, but I'll certainly tell you if he does.

~kerli~

holy mackeral, tigger. i don't know what to say. thanks for sharing so much of your personal stuff out here. so much of your 'guts'.
this is an interweb hug. i was just down at the beach thinking about you.

tigger knows that we sort of have this in common - my mom's a bipolar who self-medicates with alcohol, and dad's a straight-up absentee alcoholic. whee!
i bet lots of us have this in common.

hi kerli! good to cyber see you!


don't mind me - just putting up some decorations.

About Molly and Donny looking like Bobby, well I always thought of that too
The fact that Donny looks like Bobby and the two brothers don't share the same father, we can conclude that Bobby got his looks form his mother's side...
I always thought that Frances illness was genetic. Why? Well, Donny is bipolar...




Thank you for sharing tigger. Like uni. puts it, it does required guts
And one more thing about the "favored son" topic, I doubt that Frances would of given her engagement ring to her least favorite son...


Good to here from you kerli It's nice to have a cute teacher

Thank you all for the cyberhugs ::hugs back:: So many folks have it much worse than I did--see ciaddict's current signature. I think the best gift God/the universe/fate can give you is time to let you heal and hopefully, eventually, help somebody else.

And a great big floofy tigger hug to kerli ::HUG:: Here's wishing you a great school year!

I really didn't mean to sound "Poor me . . . WAAAH!", although I'm sure it came out that way. I just think I get the Frances/Frank/Bobby dynamic. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I will say, though, that if my parallel life thing is true, Bobby is going to see Frances despite the verbal abuse because he needs to do that for himself. It's his choice to see his mom, just as it's Frank's choice not to see her. And Bobby could change his choice whenever he wishes. But there's something inside him that keeps him caring for her. When Bobby shows up, I suspect he mentally pulls the ciaddict "stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-la-la-la" trick so he can keep coming back. He knows she's sick, and he knows she's mentally ill, and he knows there's nothing that's gonna change that. She can't treat him any better if she wanted to--she's too sick both mentally and physically. But he knows that he'll never forgive himself if he doesn't take care of her so he keeps going back for his own sake at least as much as for her sake.


Excellent point, my dear! Especially since Bobby brought his girlfriend to see Frances at least twice in her last few days. Frances must have liked Alex, or she wouldn't have gone twice--you don't intentionally go agitate your boyfriend's dying mother. Had Bobby been the favorite, since Frances liked Alex, Frances would have given Bobby the ring to shove him along. Instead Frances gives her one last possession to Frank, because he's the favorite. Now we can speculate as to why Frank, the penniless drunk, gave Bobby the ring . . . .

This topic reminds me that we learned in "A Person of Interest" that Bobby did blame his mom for their absent father. Like he told Croydon "you want to be seen as the victim". Realizing the truth when he got older, that probably boosted him to try to make up for his father's bad deeds and also for him once blaming her... Visiting his mom once a week and calling her everyday, might also be because of guilt. Don't get me wrong though; he loved his mom but I believe that part of his devotion to her stemmed from guilt. He's trying to make up the wrong he and his father have caused her (imo).



Good topic
Maybe Frank wanted to encourage his brother to do that thing for his kid. But on the other hand, it was already clear to Franky that Bobby was gonna do it... Maybe he was just being a good brother and saw how much Bobby wanted the ring. Or maybe, he realized that Bobby will be more likely to need it

Ok that last 'maybe' was shippy

Talking about shippiness, I was just watching 'Want'. In the interrogation room, near the end, Goren says to Tagman "...You want what you want. Someone who won't leave, who won't judge you. Someone who will surrender herself to you: a girlfriend"
That line just made me feel awfully shippy .... Well, Eames didn't leave. She doesn't judge him. And she's pretty much surrendering herself to him Ok I'm done with that

And the title "Want", I never thought of the meaning behind it (stupid me ). John Tagman wanted a girlfriend. Deakins and Carver wanted the death penalty. Goren wanted life without parole and he also wanted to eat chocolate . Eames... she wished (wanted) that Bobby didn't 'go to bat' for that criminal.

not stupid ... never stupid.

'want' might be the creepiest episode ever.
i feel kind-of sick every time i see it. a notorious American serial killer actually did that to people. not my favourite episode.

you know - i got from that episode that bobby goren is a real weird guy. the level of empathy and understanding he has for tagman is disturbing - but i think it's supposed to be. it's not the first time it happens. like the aria in 'yesterday' when jay lippman says 'you have no idea.' but to me the suggestion is that bobby does have an idea. rather. and at some point he says 'bad guys do what good guys dream of?' something like that?
i don't mean this as a goren slight. the opposite. (i like weird people.) it's why he is so good at his job, right? he gets how bad guys think and feel. he has free will and chooses good - at core it's who he is. but it's like jo gage tells him - declan thinks he could have gone either way. when he's being particularly scary, my hubby will invariably comment that it's a good thing he's on our side.

and, i thought the title was ironic. doesn't bobby say at the end "I guess everyone got what they want" - something like that (it's been awhile) but his 'going to bat' kind-of freaked out eames, didn't it? so, bobby didn't get what he wanted.
hmmmm ... what was it that he wanted?
and caution to noromo guests:
The Following Is Shippy
it's been ten months since her nephew's birth. there was 'yearning' and dancing and other shippy things. the first three episodes at the start of season 4 have goren revealing all kinds of things about himself through suggestion and extension (like how an obsessed person feels when separated from the object of their desire in the 'semi-detached' aria, then this bit about lonliness, 'wanting' and girlfriends to john tagman.) and, he flirts outrageously with eames in 'the posthumous collection' which i guess might have been necessary to antagonize the bad guy. but i've always thought him smart enough to bring up Margaret Brundage to annoy the dude in some other clever manner, without needing to invite eames to an exhibit of erotic comic book art in the process. just saying.
but, the subtle tells carry on for the rest of the season. ('silver lining' 'gone' etc. )


apropos of nothing in particular - just decorating ...
this one is from 'depths.'


and 'identity crisis'

no, it doesn't seem like that at all, tigger.

i wrestle with this issue a lot, because the last time my mother kicked me out of her life, i went. i haven't spoken to her for three years, and she'll leave it this way until she dies rather than accept a boundary from me. (our last conflict was about her being abusive to my son and my husband. i don't have to stick up for my daughter - she isn't afraid of my mom and just tells her off.) my other siblings wrote her off years ago (plus they're on the mainland) so she only had me. it weighs heavily ...
oh, the luxury of just moving away and not thinking about it.
i make the five hour round trip to see my son every week, and i drive past her home, and don't know how to fix it. there. now i'm showing icky guts.
need more decorations.
kayne? i'm moving one of your donated pictures ... i hope that's okay.

Yup, it's pretty creepy but I love it so



I like what your husband said about Bobby: totally And earlier you mentioned that he makes fun of the names "NOROMOS" and "Shippers", well my brother does too (lol). He's a NOROMO annoyingly but he said that shippers might be right when I showed him that "Your Heart" sign and the events of "Purgatory"....

And as for Bobby, well his weirdness and overall out of the ordinary judgment of things are some of the reasons why we love him so much, I guess


Well I can think of one more 'want' Well, Bobby would rather (want) Eames to be on his side. It was so cute to see how he looked at Eames when Deakins left the room. He gave her a quick glance knowing she probably wasn't agreeing with him by her silence. Eames left him alone in the room fidgeting with his binder *awww* (poor weirdo)


A lot of cool points here uni.
The invite to the exhibition in " The Posthumous Collection", makes me want to bring up "Want" again. Where B/A were undercover in the chocolate factory place, when Bobby finished eating a piece of chocolate, he said to the 'chocolate carrier' "... you know I heard that chocolate's an aphrodisiac. It's been slow at home lately. I think I'm gonna have another one" That just really made me laugh when I finally decided to look up the word aphrodisiac. Out of all conversations ... In case you don't know the meaning of this word here it is:


And thanks for the pics uni.! I loved how their clothes matched in that "Depths" undercover

ok im going to try this again.... this is the second time that i have written something and the freakin' thing erased my whole post... grrrrr let me see if i can remember all that i tried to post before .... (smacks head on desk)

redheaded tigger im sorry that you had to go through all that.. i feel your pain because i had the whole bobby/frances/frank triangle in my life growing up too. the "frances' i knew didnt love anybody but herself. i think that she preferred the "frank" i knew because he was very much like her. he liked to party and spoil himself. she did too. she was one of the most selfish people i have ever met. i dont know if she had any mental illness or not. but she certainly could have helped herself. she would pit "bobby" and "frank" against each other and sit back and watch the chaos. the episodes with frances in them are hard for me to watch because i know her. been there done that - dont want the t-shirt. i totally agree with you on the guilt thing.. the "bobby" i know had a hard time getting over his mom. he would defend her all the time. no matter what she said or did....

on a happier note: i would love to join the ship!!! but i warn yall im much better at goofing off than swabbing decks!! oh and yall can call me jr for short. jr003 is too much to type - you have to reach up and type the number keys and life is too short for all that!! haha folks at work call me junior as a joke. (jr are my intials) so anyways...

random babbling: has anybody noticed that they always stay really close together... i mean when one of them gets up the other one does too? they almost always stay really close to each other (almost always the same distance apart) whenever they are walking or sitting or whatever they are doing. its almost like they are tied together with an invisible string. i thought about that with the whole "jane eyre" thing, folks that have read the book will get the reference - if you havent read the book its a must!! so anyway maybe thats why that one epi is called "untethered" because he is untethered from eames!! whatcha think???

more random babbling: is it just me or was the whole hospital scene in blind spot not enough??? i mean dont get me wrong i looooove this episode!!! its one of my absolute favs!! but it seemed to me like he should have held her hand, kissed her head, hugged her....somethin'. and he didnt. he was very gentle with her, like he was scared she would break. i mean even if you wanted a platonic relationship - friends who went through something like that would do more, i would think. the despair he showed while she was lost did not equal the feeling he showed toward her in the hospital. but on the other hand maybe the fact that they didnt do more is a "tell". maybe he thought "if i show too much then she will know how i feel". gotta hide those feelings. both of them, not just bobby. i guess it helped that he had the whole trip to the hospital to calm down. things would have been waaaay different if he had found her in that warehouse (or whatever it was). the shippyness would have been neck deep!! haha too bad thats not what happened. i liked her tough girl act, "you look like hell" that she put on for him. you know he would have had to stay with her. my house got broken into while i was at work once and it took me a good week before i was able to stay there again. i cant imagine being kidnapped, almost killed and then staying by myself. somebody would have had to stay with her; him, her sister, her mom, her cousin, somebody..... i love how hes so frantic when shes lost and so calm when shes found. his look of despair when declan say "new theory eames is alive" THUD, THud, Thud, thud........(rolls down the hill in shippiness delight) you can tell hes hoping against hope right there. he soooo wants her to be ok. and then when hes says, 'so shes trapped" and he stutters...MEGA THUD (falls down the hill again this time takes a looong time to get back up) and then later when shes found hes soo calm. i mean hes able to go into the house of horrors and talk calmly about where she was almost killed - almost like it was somebody else and not his best bud. but yall know they are better together than apart. but my fav was the ending shot of him sitting at her bedside . i was struck by what jo had said about declan coming to her cell and listening to her for as long as it takes. and i thought awww bobby's gonna listen to alex for as long as it takes......

I'm sorry for what you've had to witness (or endure)

And I totally understand you jr about how Bobby interacted with Eames at the hospital. I bet that he felt like jumping into her arms and hugging her .... But he wouldn't! He doesn't want to be revealed. This reminds me of 'F.P.S' where after he finished to throw that wad of paper on her desk, he looked behind to see if anybody saw that 'yearning.' But the angst (the torment) of her kidnapping was too grand to hide. But knowing after that she was save and sound, he succeed to bottle up his feelings.
It's funny, how he was freaking out before and at her bedside he was so calm (that Bobby...). That moment where he's like "she..she's trapped"; you could feel the fear and the tears in his throat

He didn't know where to go: should he trust his mentor or shouldn't he? Soooo cute to watch He wasn't thinking straight, he didn't know who to trust.

And yes totally, two people who are very close friends would hug. Well one would show to the victimized one how much he/she was scared. But not with Bobby... And I know Eames knows that about him (well, why wouldn't she?) Like, I always put it, this is all part of the Goren personality. You could feel the awkwardness in the air between the two at the Hospital... Why so professional??? It's ok to be in love
I bet on the way to the hospital he calmed himself somehow. Before we could all see how much he was freaking out for her: amazing! He's soy good at hiding his feelings. I think he needs to learn how to show them for God sake. Any volunteers? (lol)
And the last scene of the ep, was an act speaking for him. I mean, we just saw him sitting there watching her: awfully sweet! ...

Sometimes I think that the 'recent Bobby' would show her a bit more clearly how much he was scared to lose her (just a thought)...


And uni., it's Eames who said "...Everybody got what they want" at the end of "Want"

Shippy Peeps.... I just saw Albatross for the 1st time. Holy THUD!

K... First of all I'm really starting to buy into the fact that these two were indeed "involved" after Blind Spot and throughout season six.

Secondly, the vodka/scotch scene in the bar with G/E was scorching. If you pulled that scene, out of context with the rest of the show(even if you didn't, but lets pretend for a minute, shall we ). They have the chemistry of lovers, no less.

I totally need to see that episode again. Any of you tech saavy folk have screen caps on that scene?

Pardon my shippy gushing, but that scene blew me away.

I think the best I can do is a link to the screencaps from The Velocity of Vincent site. I don't really know why I can't copy them to my photobucket. Some of hers I can and some I can't. So maybe a MORE savvy person can figure out how to get the pictures on here.

http://velocity1loci.jalbum.net/LOCI%20Sea...tross%2029.html

And I think this is the one you shippers want the most.

http://velocity1loci.jalbum.net/LOCI%20Sea...tross%2030.html

Lalalalalalalala!

Hee hee hee--scarlet, Bravo is showing it again in 1/2 hour. What I'm watching for this time is Alex's griping to Bobby about why the state senator put up with all her husband's crap--sticking with him because "she must be getting something out of it". Gee isn't that, like, exactly what jr just said about Alex sticking with Bobby just 3 days ago or so?

OMG--gonna go watch it again and report back to the ship!!!

BTW -- 11 year old daughter is a very astute shipper. She saw the bar scene tonight and just kind of looked at me like "that's cute". I will also note she told me a couple weeks ago while watching Masquerade, "Well, they didn't just get off the plane from New York, pick up the guy in the Vietnamese airport, and then get right back on the next plane to New York. They had to stay somewhere for a day". Ah, my dear, you warm momma's heart. BTW--complete side note, based on memory of my sister's experience: travel time from Tokyo to Washington, DC: 18 hours. Travel time DC to Tokyo: 24 hours. I think that includes her typical refuel stops, etc. Still, loooong trip. But luckily Bobby knows some Vietnamese!

Awww ciaddict thanks, that's nice of you, to brave the love-fest that is the ship, to bring me pics that nurse my neverending ship-disease .

Not to take anything away from my peeps on the ship, or all our discussions. But I think if Bobby looked at a piece of lint like that, I'd suspect he and the piece of lint were involved.... I guess what I'm saying is sometimes I wonder if it's a VDO thing, ya know

i love how lively the ship is these days.

scarlet - i love 'albatross', too. you know me and eames ... i see it as another one about her through suggestion and extension.
(though the suggestion of spousal rape just left like that has always bothered me. )
but still, i'm with you.

so, as far as jr's thoughts go,
you're so among friends here. we have a whole 'tell' devoted to their proximity! (check out 'tells of the heart')


imho - eames does not like being touched on a good day, never mind when she's just been tortured. so, imo, in 'blind spot', bobby doesn't touch her (no matter how much he or we want him to) because she wouldn't like it and her needs are more important just then.
and for me, the ending raises the spectre of the invisible eames family. i know they only have 42 minutes every other week, but truly, there is enough space in the background for a cluster of non-speaking extras to be gathered, ringing their hands and looking worried ... the 'family' she's always talking about. but no. it's only bobby there at her bedside looking for all the world like Forrest Gump. :littlethud:

Hey uni! I have seen your previous posts about Eames background/childhood, but being the sometimes dense person I am. I'm not 100% sure what you think may have happened to her and how it affects her relationship with Bobby. Please explain And if you don't want to do it on a public forum, as always, feel free to PM me. If Eames does have touch/abuse issues, how could Bobby ever breech them to comense with a relationship?

Back to Albatross, and the bar scene. I'm going back to the awesome synopsis that callie put up here. I'm guessing during season 6 Bobby and Alex were pretty hot and heavy with their relationship. I feel like it's reflected in that scene. I'm still not sure if B/A were "involved" before or after Blind Spot. And I'm also not very sure of the "level" of involvement these two had physically. I actually am not sure they ever "did the deed" persay. The romance could be mostly cerebral. Now I'm rambling

Please discuss...

I second that! And you know, ciaddict, if you stick around long enough, this stuff may rub off on you. You know, it's like the kid who says "I can't watch the scary part of this movie", and then they put their hands up over their eyes but peek through their fingers.

I appreciate your open-mindedness and support of the shippy cause. We really do have logical arguments, you know.

Yeah, but VDO's a great actor. He can play that scene a dozen different ways facially, verbally, etc. And the director could have changed the way VDO was playing it in a heartbeat. And the writers could have changed the dialogue to make it less shippy. This ain't no one-take, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants production. Doubters, please refer to your LOCI seminar notes from before. This is all intentional--it is shippy!

LOL...Back in the days when ValleyoftheShadow was the captain of the USS Relationship, she and the other shippers claimed that NOROMOs weren't romantics. Of course, she also said NOROMOs bite...an obvious overstatement (we only nibble!). But on the romantic part...read just about any nonshipper's fanfic and you will see we are every bit as romantic as the shippers. We just have other ideas on who should fulfill that role in Bobby's life.

::checking to see if any shippyness has rubbed off, then goes back to peeking through her fingers::

Oh...and I do read some shippy fanfics. But this is how I know the shippyness hasn't rubbed off...there are very few shippy fanfics that I really "feel", you know?

What great topics everybody has brought up lately. The thing I love about this show is the many levels that the actors/writers, etc bring us and how everybody on this board seems to get this and we all roll with it. It really is a lot of fun and it is a tribute to the show and the actors (especially VDO, he is the Master!). I don't think ANYTHING on this show is accidental and I was watching 'Albatross ' again too and looking at it from my perspective that Bobby and Alex have been involved since around "Silver Lining" or thereabouts. [If you aren't sure, please, look at the beginning of 'Blind Spot' when Alex tells Bobby she is supposed to 'keep an eye on him.' They both smirk at eachother like a couple of lovesick teenagers. It's almost sickening how giddy they are toward eachother. ] Anyway, in 'Albatross', it is made very clear that Alex is a strong, independant thinking woman. It takes an equally strong, intelligant man to keep a woman like this interested. Who better than Bobby? In the bar scene, neither one of them gives into the other. She lets him know she is upset and he doesn't give in to her....but he does make sure "they are ok." There are no " gee, I'm sorry hunny" statements here. These two are equals.

On a side note, I was watching 'Priviledge' and this is the show after Bobby had his tantrum in TWAH and stormed out. When Ross welcomes Bobby back and asks "is everything ok.....?" Bobby kinda looks down at his feet and shuffles and stammers a bit. It is almost exactly how he reacted to Alex in 'Faithfully' when he met her at the dock. VDO is so brilliantly consistant with the characters' mannerisms. Bobby is very self conscience about looking vulnerable and weak and is embarrassed by his behavior. I love the avoiding eye contact. Very sweet and almost child like.