If you're mostly unhappy about the ending, well I've heard that the writers said that it was a "friendship scene"
What are your concerns uni.?
Hope you have a bag nearby! Hold on steady!

hi shippers! bogoalexea and filigree2! yay!!

i have to admit that i utterly agree that overt relationship stuff ruins everything.
the ross-rodgers thing is a great example of what we love, though. (i still feel bad that she had to miss the opera. she looked great!)
this is more fun.

and,
i have discovered that i can watch ci with a shippy eye and catch a different story than the case. much fun.
i play 'i spy with my shippy eye.'
my husband is a noromo. lol. he agrees that 'lady's man' is shippy. why? at that point in the case, bobby hadn't yet begun to suspect Mulrooney of anything ... he had no reason to ask about him and Eames at all. except for the reason stated ... "I'm trying to ... "

so, speaking of my shippy eye, and i'm a shipper. please, no lobbing stuff.

it looked to me like bobby hooked up with leslie lezard, and that eames knows (well, how could she not know????? he practically BRAGGED - mr 'i'm so relaxed and laughing like a schoolboy this morning, tra la la'),
and she is not amused.
i will add a fabulous new still > *here* (of eames 'not amused' about how ... erm ... relaxed her partner is this morning.)
once my 16 year old vacates my computer.

and (no offense to helpless damsels in distress everywhere - i'm an eames fan) she is YUCKY! all giant eyes and 'save me, bobby. i need my bodice ripped.' ew.

my suspicion was redoubled when he told lizard woman that it was a 'nice idea' to meet 'on the water'. i wanted to kick him.
(it's okay though ... i wanted to kick eames in 'the war at home'. i'm an equal opportunity kicker.)

so, leslie yells at them that she carried that idiots's water (Jim Gaffigan's) for seven years ... sounds pretty frickin' familiar... and kind of like eames has just been set on 'slow boil'. this phrase will stick with her. hmmmm ...

re: 'it's too late' ... the writer's said it was a 'friendship' statement??????
hmmm ....

I don't think you have to be a shipper to have concerns, questions, and panic attacks over that one. I for one don't get it, no matter how many times I watch it. And I've read the writer's explanation and I still just don't get it. To me it "assumes facts not in evidence"; such as Eames wanting to be a captain or feeling that her career has been stalled by her partnership with Goren. When and where have we ever seen that? She said waaaay back in season 1 that she "didn't take this job to get noticed." When did that change? Even if (trying to put on shippy glasses here) we accept that she stayed in this partnership because she was in love with Goren....where have we ever seen that she ever had ambitions to rise to captain or beyond? It just has the feel of something the writers threw in without having laid a proper foundation.

Sorry...I'll return you to your regularly scheduled shippyness now.

Hi shippers! First off, thank you for all the nice thoughts. I'm feeling a little better, or at least well enough to give you something to chew on in my medicated state.

I don't think everything was mapped out on day 1. I don't think it could have been, even had they wanted to. Characters change and evolve based on experiences, writers get new ideas, etc. I think they had a basic framework and then built from there. USA has been showing season 1 stuff this week and there are several glaring (I think) differences in the B/A relationship back then. First of all, Goren is arrogant as hell. In later seasons, he's still got the "I know everything" vibe going on, but lawd does he play it up in season 1. I know they were trying to convey "he makes his own rules", but it's almost overdone, imho. Also, he and Eames I think are intentionally set at odds against each other in certain parts in the script. In The Faithful, she wants the wife/priest lover to testify, he wants to keep it quiet. There was something else they were like polar opposites on in One--and of course, I can't remember squat right now <insert later>. I'll look some more as I recuperate, but there seemed to be a lot of "we're different" going on, whereas now it's more like "we're on the same page". Just my take on it.

OK--here's the part in the post where I will ask you don't throw rocks at me. I have thought that even though LOCI is not soapy, if done a little differently, it actually kind of is. I mean, how many children of schizophrenics and serial killers do you know? Hell, I ran into one at my grocery store just last week. And you've got a surrogate mom for an unseen sister and an obsessed crazy blonde murderous stalker and a mentor whose daughter damn near killed one of the stars and who himself kills your brother in order to "help" you. Take away the good acting, add some sex, and it's "Days of Our NYPD Lives". Thank goodness there's no outright shipping going on explicitly in the show. It's all going on behind the scenes (and we know this from thinking like writers/actors/directors ). And I am a 100% bona fide genuine shipper. They are already a couple. I just don't wanna see over the top stuff on screen until the very end. And even then, not over the top.

Everything is deliberate, and there is shippiness. And it doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in season 1 (shippiness-wise) nor does it matter what happened with The Lizard. They are shipping now. And they love each other now.

In One, Eames remarks that the girl should have taken the diamonds and run, but Bobby reminds here that "diamonds don't keep you warm at night". Well, years later, when Alex has the "take the diamonds" option (her career) or the "man to keep you warm at night" option, she picks the guy. Heck, she doesn't just put her career on the line for this guy, she potentially puts her only source of income (to our knowledge) and her pension. What's she gonna do if she's not a cop--work security at Jonas Brothers concerts? Put a fork in that girl, she is beyond done. Guess Bobby was right in One after all.

I always saw that question was pretty early.... But I always told myself "it's just the shipper in you trying to prove herself right" ... But hearing that from an non-shipper just makes me feel delighted inside



Ok... Good one there. I always saw that Eames' reaction to Goren's statement was questionable (God I love that word )
But on the other hand, we saw when Leslie gave Bobby that paper, you know? At that diner/date, remember?
I can't remember which one of us said this but Leslie did pick him out in Ross' office (that bitch )


... I'm not a fan of that moment either but I like to believe that he was desperate (you know, trying to get out of his loneliness a bit. But of course, he did/doesn't have the courage to go where his heart really lies *sigh*) and he wanted to be nice to her I just ran out of excuses
This kinda reminds me of what he did at the end with the inhaler. That was pretty hot! He was teasing her right there. Sort of like a pay back for playing him.


I never made that parallel.... Good catch! And B/A actually had 7 years together back then...

Good to here


Yup... that's true! But he actually started to get less arrogant in the end of season 1, I think. He cooled of somehow...


... Don't worry! Rocks won't be thrown. Like I told uni. before, I'm not the type I totally see what you're talking about.
Like you put it you don't find those things every day, but you can find them. I know of a surrogate mom . In one of my classes a student's mom was "surrogating" for a close friend.... Lucky me, Idk of any serial killers


Same here.


It's always good to hear that



Great analysis girl!!!

no! no 'sorry'. thanks for your input. i totally did need a paper bag, though. such a wtf? moment. and i was back to wanting to kick eames. lol.

shippiness-wise, i agree that 'whatever did or did not happen' isn't all that relevant due to more recent developments, (ie at least from 'betrayed' onward), i'm just riding a story arc. trying to view it as a continuum.
in s6 it seemed like they were inching closer ... they were inching closer. in 'endgame', eames refers to them as 'we' to Ross. but by 'smile' (two G/E eps later), bobby is ... just a little too cheerful in the morning.
big difference.

the lizard woman is wretched. 'that bitch' you say? i concur. she gives him her card and those big eyes. twice. he says 'you gave me your card twice. why?' over dinner. he asks over plates of food and glasses of beer. (you met her after hours without your partner. why?)
what kind of answer is he expecting to that question? 'i'm a whistle blower'? i don't think so.

i'm wondering (still) because when we saw 'self-made' (this was ages ago ... years. obsess much? lol), goren made this face ... you know. a face. and i said 'i wonder what that was all about?' and my noromo spouse (who had seen 'smile') said it was in reference to goren's relationship with this woman (leslie) and what a shmuck he is. so, i gotta go find access to 'self-made' and watch it again. see what i can see.
which reminds me about another 'meta-tell' .. (a tell about a tell) that someone else (i am sorry, i can't remember who to give credit where it's due ... ) brought up awhile ago ... when the 'faux addict' writer guy turns his back on bobby after the confrontation in the gym and he and eames discuss how a real ex-con would never have done that ... by drawing attention to it, they're telling us that we need to notice what characters are saying with their bodies, not just their mouths.
also, eames is mad at and mean to bobby again. (sigh - a dig about his mentor. if only she knew.)

i laughed my ass off about 'soapiness'. ROFL. truly. the story does stretch credulity at times.
jolly good belly laugh, tigger.
(please, assure me that nicole wallace will not come back from the dead! or her identical twin / clone show up, either.)
but, incredulity is why we ship. i think. i can no longer believe they don't 'have feelings' for each other. i can't believe that he was so upset about his mother's ring because of the price of gold. or that they are cuddling on their desks because there's nowhere else to sit, (oh, 'betrayed'. how can we watch on not yell at the tv, "HEY! Wait just a doggone minute!!! she is MAD at him!!")
no, she just touched him for the very first time, and i had to see the episode five times, AND be told by tigger before i noticed that she JUST TOUCHED HIM for the very first time. duh. under my radar again.

i agree that their characters are likely not exactly as they were first sketched out. but, would a writer create characters like this, not expecting that the issue would come up eventually? this is western society and damn if we don't love a good love story. for goodness sake, they even showed us dennis franz's naked butt in nypd blue and i'm still in pain. (sorry mr. franz, but your butt had no place in a cop drama.) and it's real. it can be hard for women and men to work together. it certainly is more real than ... well, if i were 'the creator' (lol, as if.), i'd have planned to deal with the subject.
but, on the other hand, contemporary feminist issues have been constant themes, so perhaps (because goren is so enlightened and sensitive) the fact that they can have an utterly non-sexual partnership is supposed to be a progressive statement. ?

(unicorn falls on the floor laughing.)

riiiigghhhttt. that's why they cast VDO and KE ... there are people having non-menopause related hot flashes all over this forum every day because of VDO's portayal of goren's progressive feminist stance.
(have you seen kayne's pics? some of them are smokin'. blushing unicorn.)

OK, I'll give you something else to think about re: Bobby and Lizard. In season 8, in "Passion", we saw Zac Nichols with redheaded (of course ) murderess used-to-be-poet hanging out in her apartment at night playing with her . . . piano. And they are talking about passions, and how he gave up his passion for music for the mundane life of a cop, just as she gave up her poetry for the security of money. And she sits in dreamy reverie next to him, etc etc etc.

Do you think Zac slept with the perp, or got romantically involved with her at all for that matter? I don't think so. Maybe he did, but I doubt it. He comes into 1PP the next morning kinda smug-looking too. As I was watching this, as soon as I saw his face, my next reaction was to immediately look at Megan. I don't think those 2 are coupled up (yet ) but I can definitely see the possibility of that someday, much much more so than when she was with Logan.

I see this situation and the setup with Bobby and the Lizard the same way. Megan knew Zac was over at crazy lady's place--I don't remember if Alex knew beforehand that Bobby was going to meet Cold-Blooded Scaly Girl or not. And unfortunately, I don't have Smile on my DVR to watch ::harumph:: but the next time I see it, I am hoping that since Bobby is too smart to give in to a perp's advances, the point is to watch Alex, just as the point in Silencer isn't just to watch Alex and Peter as it is to watch Bobby. That's the shippy part--in each case, they both know mentally nothing's going to happen, but emotionally they are still pissed and jealous anyway.

One more point that I hope reinforces this: we go from Amends, the only time he calls her "Alex", to Smile, and then in a couple months we are at Untethered. Let's say they were not coupled up, which would mean Bobby got involved with Lizard out of, say, loneliness. Alex goes through this extremely vulnerable case in Amends, and Bobby gets her through it. So the next case, he sleeps with someone else? And then in 2 months, when he asks Alex to put her career and livelihood on the line for his ass, she says yes, even though she knows he's sleeping with other women, so she and Bobby are probably never going to couple up? That don't make no sense to me. And I certainly wouldn't put my career on the line for my brother--Smile shows the romantic feelings Alex has for him. She's not going to "get over it" in 2 months, and even if she did, she still wouldn't go along with his BS if she thought they'd only ever be just friends. I'd only take my chances in Untethered if I were damn sure the guy I was doing this for loved me back like nobody's business. Why would you take that kind of risk if you didn't know with 100% certainty that the feelings were mutual and there wasn't potentially someone else in the picture (and I mean "the possibility of anyone other than you", not specifically Lizard)?

And then let's go a little further--we get to Purgatory and Betrayed. She's going to quickly forgive a guy who not only kept something very, as in, "life or death" important from her, but also even thought about sleeping with someone else, in the span of a couple months? I don't think she's that dysfunctional. And I know that reconciliation in Betrayed was physical (more about that later). I wouldn't want to be a consolation prize.

Since we've opened up the over-the-top characters and plot, I'll write more about that later too. That was supposed to be one of my lectures closer to the end of the course but I'll bring it up sooner rather than later.

OMG! I leave here for a few days to write a fan fic and the place goes apesh*t with brilliant points coming from shippers and nonshippers alike

Let me try to touch base on a few recent items...

I'm glad to see that even a non-shipper was left a little...flat.... at the end of Smile. What Eames said could be taken a million different ways. It's the way she said it that I found kinda disturbing. Her tone was sort of like "Well you effed up my life and career, so I'm stuck now". I don't really think that's how she meant it though.

And uni, correct me if I'm wrong, but you think our boy Goren took the Lizard to visit his mini-Goren? Really? I might be naive but I still think he was playing her. Not that Bobby doesn't get off on playing suspects. Especially female ones, and especially when it seems he gets so little physical female attention. But I can't believe he did more than have dinner with her.....I guess.....I hope.....ewwww



Right on!

I'm glad to see that we shippers pretty much agree, none of us wants Melrose Place for cryin' out loud. We all realize that if any loving occurs between our favorite detectives that it would have to be subtle and mostly implied.

Hey, we all love a good smutty fanfiction now and then. But a lot of B/A fanfics, if made into film.... Well you'd have to rent them at your local adult video store

Oh and filigree, the thought does sometimes cross my mind that some of us shippers(cough...scarletbegonia...cough) are swayed by our own personal attraction to Bobby/VDO. The whole wanting someone to comfort Bobby. But I don't think I pick Eames because she just happens to be the only one around. I pick her because she seems to be the only one who stands by him and (mostly) understands him. And I see unresolved sexual tension between them, in many an episode. It's not there all the time, but it's there.

Never thought for a second that Bobby did anything w/ Leslie LeZard other than exactly what we saw on-screen. He suspected her from the beginning, when she gave him 2 business cards, but the male part of his brain still craved the female attention. So, he was playing her, even w/ the "meeting on the water was a nice idea" comment. Just hoping to make her think he was falling for the "I'm interested in you" stuff. But, deep down, even if you're not interested in someone, it's always an ego-booster to know a person finds you attractive. And poor Bobby needs attention so badly, from anyone. As far as him mentioning meeting w/ her in front of Eames, I think he sometimes just wants to say, "Hey, a woman was interested in me! Whoohoo!" I believe, w/ Nelda in "Semi-Detached", he definitely knew it was her, but he kinda felt a little bad about it, since she found those medications for Frances.

The Eames "It's too late." comment in "Smile", I just can't see how it was meant as a friendship comment. Eames knows how emotionally fragile Bobby is, now. Why would she say something hurtful like that, then just walk away when he looked hurt by it? I think Eames sometimes just gets tired of it all. She cares deeply for him and has his back, but I think she sometimes resents being so tied to him, emotionally, and having to deal w/ the baggage. People get tired of dealing w/ loved ones' baggage all the time, but it doesn't mean they no longer care. Then, in "Amends" and "Lady's Man", Bobby is digging into Eames' personal relationships when he doesn't like her digging into his business. So, I think she gets ticked by that. So, the relationship is very complex b/w them. They are fiercely protective of each other but can also be resentful. In one way, they are like siblings (I can hurt my brother if I want to, but you can't b/c you're not in this family!) Siblings do that all the time. On the other hand, it could be sexual tension (Why do I have to be in love w/ someone who rarely shows his appreciation?) This show certainly keeps us guessing!

Nice thoughts everyone... Nice thoughts

I'm bringing up season 1 again here. I believe that season was saying they'll pull it off together okay. I mean, Eames had her fair share of annoyance but in those same eps we also see her slowly discovering Bobby. For example, in "One", Eames was eye-rolling a lot and sometime later in the ep, she seems impressed by Goren's bike buddy... And of course Bobby was discovering her too...
And also some friendship was definitively building between these two. We have a great number a sweet moment in that season.

One of the reason I love watching season 1 so much, is because we get to see how their relationship/partnership has evolved. I really find it pretty interesting to compare the past to the present. Who knew that these two would be so devoted and dependent on each other

And I agree with you filigree2 on "Smile"

I'm back. Moark is back!!

Hi all shippers!!!!

~kerli~

YAY!!! OUR MOARK IS BACK ON BOARD!!!

missed you, kiddo!

we shall have a welcome back party!

*chuckles a little bit*

Thanks... I missed you too.

Ya, I'm trying to finace a cruise ship for myself. The ship i'm looking at is cheap, because the danceroom/ballroom (whatever it's called) needs alot of work.

Thanks.

~kerli~

P.S. uni come onto FB.


Any voultenteers to help fix it up will be greatly appricated.

Hey girl! Good to hear from you again!

::sends hugs through the internet::

I have a sander, a hammer and nails. Where am I to report for duty??? You know me--I'll do anything to get folks a dance floor.

It's nice to hear from you too. I haven't gotten an email for a while from you. Is something wrong? (PM me if you'd like)

*recieves hug, and returns it*

Hm... I'll go get it now. Okay, so in about an 1 the work should began... but then there is the timeless question of... how are we going to make it on 2 workers? D: that's a scary thought!

lol.

happpy shipping!!

~kerli~

I betcha we can round some folks up from the USS Relationship and the Funtasia. I will bribe them with cake. And yes, including ice cream cake. We'll crank the tunes and have a good time.

Call your dad--he's big and strong, and I'd love to see him all nice and sweaty flexing those muscles That alone should bring the shippers out!

(My dad. *THUD* )

I bet we can.

I'm sure my dad (again *THUD) will be willing to help.

~kerli~

okay, i'm here to help clean. i love a cleaning party! i brought the nanaimo bars ...





oh, wait ... these are the wrong bars. be right back.

First of all, don't knock the price of gold. At $900 US per ounce, that's a down payment on a new Armani suit. Speaking of suspension of reality, I figured Goren got the cash for those by going with Frank to play the ponies. I'm just saying

Betrayed is a good example of how the director uses film angles to keep the story interesting and add subtle background details to the story, which you can't do an a static stage, even with a relatively elaborate set. The background stuff is best illustrated with the "your heart" sign in Brothers Keeper, but we'll stick with the filming angles in Betrayed for now.

Anybody ever sing for a chorus or dance on a team (or cheerlead, for that matter)? You go over and over the same stuff again and again to get it correct and consistent. You don't kinda slosh through it and hope for the best, even at an amateur level. I remember building chords one voice at a time, bottom to top, and then doing that, like, 5 times in a row, just so we could hear it "sound right". It's the same thing with acting. You go over the scene again and again until you've got it down, and I'm presuming (knowing nothing about the media of film--my tigger disclaimer) only then do you start shooting. If you don't keep the actions consistent and have the blocking consistent, you're gonna end up on the "whoopsie" list on TJara's website because the film editors won't be able to put something together that's plausible from a bunch of differnt angles.

So the scene starts with Bobby and Alex sitting on the desk. Let's call where they are facing 12 o'clock. The camera starts at 11 o'clock and pans around them, towards Ross, until about 2 o'clock. At this point, Alex moves closer to Bobby twice (the second time, she actually bumps into him, so he skooches back) and you can see how they are dressed--exactly alike, but typical of their characters. Alex a lot of times is in some scoop neck thing, but today she has on a plain black crew neck long sleeved top and jeans. Bobby is wearing his typical black crew neck t-shirt under a plain black collared shirt and then his black jacket. He usually wears a striped collared shirt, but today he's wearing solid black. And he's also in jeans the same color that Alex is wearing. From the 2 o'clock angle, it's almost like "where does Alex end and Bobby begin"--aah, a stretch, but that's the shipper in me. But the unity of the clothing is significant--it's two as one. They never dress exactly alike. I can see Ross looking them over from head to toe:

"Uh, what happened? Did the two of you get dressed together this morning?"
::Alex turns away and blushes::
"Um, actually, yes, Captain, we did", says Bobby

So then the camera angle is at 10 o'clock (from the TV side) and then we're at 12 o'clock, but lower than eye level, and then we're at 9 to see Ross, and then at 2 next to Ross, and the shots are a mixture of close ups and farther back. When Alex gets the missing person's report, the camera is at 9 o'clock and she taps Bobby on the chest with her knuckle (he leans into that, btw, to look over her shoulder ), and then immediately we're back at 2 o'clock as the two of them get down from the desk. "So", you ask, "why the heck is this important"? Because it shows that they filmed this scene a lot of times, doing the same actions every time. That is why you can see the touch at 9 o'clock and the immediate aftermath of the touch at 2 o'clock. That means the touch was not a spur-of-the moment thing--they filmed that touch again and again, moving the camera each time. Therefore the touch is intentional and significant.

And here is Bobby desperately trying to keep his eyes open from his long night of saying "I'm sorry, you were right" and keeping Alex happy:


We know they have reconciled off-camera in the last 18 hours from their body language (proximity, duh) and the fact that they are dressed exactly alike. I think a purely platonic relationship would not have them dress exactly alike, but feel free to disagree. The reconciliation has to be physical, or else she wouldn’t be (physically) touching him, because she never touches him. This is the subconscious tell. Had the reconciliation been platonic, they'd be comfortable around each other, but she wouldn't suddenly start this new action of touching him. She touches him because they were all over each other last night, and even though it's now 11:40 AM, she is still on the ceiling emotionally.

I also suspect they were together before Betrayed, because I believe the fanfics that write about the angst they both have after their first time--"is this what you want, are we doing the right thing" etc. are correct and in character. But here in this scene they are comfortable as hell, so I think they've already sorted out the is-this-a-good-idea-or-not stuff awhile back.

I'll write more later--off to fix a ballroom floor!

* snorting with laughter *

well done, my dear.
(ooff, my tummy!!! ... *still laughing*)
omg, you are so funny.
have i mentioned how much i love laughing?

it's enough to convince [conVINCE - see? it's a sign! lol.] a noromo. well, i'll get the old man to read later on, see what he thinks.
any other takers?
okay, here's those nanaimo bars.

from a giggle to a snarl in 3 seconds ... i WILL learn how to use this device. i think i need a new mouse ...

is ~kerli~ here? (are you here?) i have duct tape and maple syrup. where do you want me to start?

can we discuss eames' placement on the ceiling? (*thud*) also,
everything else you wrote (that which i hopelessly attempted to quote ... meh. MEH! i say! i know not how to use this device. yet.)
especially the shippy parts?

i'm sitting here watching 'self-made' and squealing. it's not a dignified noise.

First, I just want to say, welcome back moark .

Second, Dr Tigger, you are a genius! That is some serious shippy proof going on. It bums me out that I don't have Betrayed at my DVR disposal, to reanalyze that scene using Dr. Tigger's theories. I will say I'm starting to fall back into thinking these two have been an item for a little while now.... I started out thinking they hadn't yet, now I'm just not so sure. But all the possibilities are fun to consider.

hullo scarlet.

lovely moon tonight.

i think:
they did. (ie. 'silver lining')
then they stopped. everything was FUBAR. (almost everything. they weren't distant in 'brother's keeper' or 'endgame'.)

then they started again. (betrayed) and haven't stopped. but,
season 8 was odd, wasn't it?

(unicorn is temporarily distracted by the beautiful sunset outside ... wanders away ... )

Okay, I'm going to post more than once because they'll be long. It'll have to be late, good nite shippers, good to see you back, Serena/kerli.



That's what I thought about Bobby telling her, too, it just wouldn't be the natural thing for him to do (actually, I think I worded your Bobby line the same way in the 'Frame' thread, haha.) But you never know, after this, he may feel like he can share more things with her, especially since she never doubted him after she found out.



Ah yes, like tigger said, I do not think any of you are dummies at all. In fact, I meant the complete opposite because you guys are very smart and perceptive. I have learned more about shippiness & other things in this thread than I could ever imagine from you guys.

Great analyzing, I didn't realize how much can be said in one scene without the words. I never thought of Bobby and Alex's seating or standing arrangements to mean much before, but I've been noticing it more recently in older episodes.



I always wondered why Bobby looked at her there, at first I thought it was strange, but now you and Uni convinced me it's shippy, thanks!



In Blind Spot, I thought Bobby would go to where Alex was trapped and hold her in his arms. It went to commercial after she was rescued by the man with the dog, and when it came back, she was already in the hospital Ah well, if they do hug, it's going to mean a lot more after so much has happened (mmm...holding each other tight...closing their eyes...then the kissing starts....Whoops sorry, got lost in thought.)

Yes, that is what I thought, too. Whenever I think of all the episodes where Bobby and Alex are not together, or they're missing each other, that phrase "We don't do well without each other" rings in my head, it fits them. I was trying to think of who said that last year, and I thought "Did Bobby say that...? Maybe in F.P.S or Semi-Detached?" but then I saw 'The Gift' and remembered. So I think it's something that Bobby knows about them, too.



Thanks for explaining about the 'touching' theory, I like it. Actually, Alex has touched him in Amends, Smothered and Pas de Deux In Pas de Deux, she thought the briefcase in the trash could be a bomb, but Bobby reaches down and she touches his arm, haha, not sure if that would be considered shippy rather than "Bobby, you idiot!"
Here is a picture that another member had combining most of their touches, including the one from 'Betrayed.'




Bobby touched her not only to get her attention, but sometimes to let her know he listened to what she said even though he's going to do something else. So sweet.

Oh and about quoting - You can click 'Quote' under the posts you want to quote, and it will turn red. You can click as many as you want, and when you click 'Add Reply' at the bottom, they will all appear there.



Thanks for explaining more about the defensiveness thing, scarlet, I'm starting to understand it way more.



Uni, the Bobby and Alex shipper ship is called the USSRelationship. The USSFuntasia is a ship of mine for people with mixed stances on shipping (explained in the Loci Ships thread.) I put my location as the USS Funtasia before I was captain, and because of the 'upgrade' last year, I can't edit it. By the way, I have made a site for the USSRelationship if anyone wants to check it out - ussrelationship.webs.com. There is a Drawing Board where you can talk and draw, so if all of you shippers are on at the same time, we can meet there if you'd like. Everyone is welcome, even NoRomos (but they will have to wear non-shippy safety goggles in case it's too shippy ) Aw, sorry about the floofiness, but I still think you're an energetic, friendly, kind, smart and shippy unicorn!

Hahah


Wow... Excellent explanation. . . *THUD*

Any other voulenteers? lo. We'll play some good music while we work too.


Ohhh they look delicous.


Yes I'm here. Perhaps Ross would be of some help...


Thanks I'm glad to be here.

~kerli~

I have to hide out here, again.

apparently i'm again pissing this person off (who knows why...?)

so... I'll just be over here... in my new ballroom... shipping. hehe.

~kerli~

Nah, I ain't a genius by any stretch. I just spent a lot of years acting on stage, under different directors, in acting classes. I am certainly no expert, but I can share my experiences, just as I am not an expert on Catholicism, but I spent years in the Church, and this is the stuff I remember.

I'm sorry, Rabeka, I wasn't implying anything about your statement at all. I phrased it wrong--like that's the first time that's ever happened. We've had a rough couple weeks here, and I just want to empasize (to a fault ) that's we're OK with all points of view. And I know you know that. Please forgive me for implying something I shouldn't have.

Yeah, you learn that in acting class. You learn an awful lot about the props and the stance and placement of the characters.

In LOCI, they use the character blocking all the time to convey non-verbal stuff. Last night, Family Values was on NBC. During the aria, you have Bobby leading Devildis inside the house. He pushes Devildis up against the wall, and pulls out a chair for Devildis, but dude doesn't sit down right away. He leans against the wall for "support" from his ancestral home. Now Bobby is talking to Devildis--Bobby is standing up, Devildis sits down, smug and arrogant, planting his defiant stance into the chair. Bobby is superior, and he's trying to convey his "superior" POV. Devildis doesn't "get it" but gives Bobby a clue--Kathy is still alive. Bobby (subconsciously) thinks "Oh good, now we're getting somewhere" and sits down. Now dude won't give up any more info--he's meeting Bobby face as he leans into him. Bobby gets up ("lets' try another appraoach") and whispers in Devildis' ear, like Satan did when he told Devildis to kill his family.

Notice how pissed Devildis is getting:

Devildis stands up defiantly, arguing with Bobby that he's not listening to Satan--Devildis gets defensive, because that really sets him off, so he stands up and goes over to Bobby. Now Devildis is saying, physically, "we're on the same level and I'm going to fight you for what you just said to me". Bobby and Devildis continue to verbally spar, and Bobby (literally) backs Devildis into a wall, "trapping" Devildis.

And here is Bobby arguing face to face with dude, while dude is backed into the wall:

Bobby pushes Devildis back into his chair (saying non-verablly "I'm right, dammit, now sit thereand listen to me"), and Bobby gets "in his face", but still standing over him in the superior position, by leaning into him and raising his voice.

Finally dumb-ass Devildis starts to "get it"--he leans back into his chair, realizing what's been going on, and averts his eyes to start thinking about what Bobby said. Bobby gets down now at Devildis' level, lowering his voice, trying to coax the last bit of information, the location of the cemetary, out of him. Devildis, now completely defeated, lowers his head into his hands to cower and "hide", full of shame. As he is crying, he gives up the goods. Chalk up another win for our Bobby.

And the audience gets what's going on non-verablly because it's natural, you know? It makes sense, non-verbally, or else we'd be saying WTF--that doesn't "look" right. This is the stuff that directors do--make it look as realistic as possible from the blocking. And the actors make it as realistic-looking as possible by getting into that "zone" and "becoming" their character. That's why we're right about the shippy stuff --think like an actor/director/writer, start looking for the "clues" like good detectives, because that's what you're supposed to do (especially on a detective show where they're always talking about the non-verbal tells), and everything falls neatly into place.

Take care, y'all!

Girl, PM me and let me know what's up. You know I'm here for you. We can talk as I'm sanding the floor. I brought lunch today. Hope you like Italian food.

Again... I'm going to hide in my ship. hehe.

feel free to join me, shippers if you must.

~kerli~

Glad to have you back Moark!!!

Thanks for the pics Rebeka

tigger.... I'm in awe at everything you wrote. I'm more on the fence now when it comes to they did it already theory. You brought up a lot of good points: Thanks so much for sharing!!!

I'm dying for season 9 right now .... What's gonna happen??? Jeez... So many questions!!!!
Ok.... that was just a crisis but I really can't wait (anyways, who can? )

Purgatory-- "I left you two messages you never call me back" We saw one of her calls and she didn't leave a message then... how many times did she call him? The thought just occurred to me.

Suite Sorrow-- After the Polaroid moment, we saw Bobby putting the pic in his breast pocket... It's not work related that's why he didn't put it in his binder (and he needed to keep it near his heart--- great I'm feeling overly shippy again )


Happy shipping Shippers!!! You got me think everybody (especially you tigger. )

Thanks.

I need to watch more CI, i haven't watched an epi for over a week (D: D: D: D: a little odd for me. )

But a sign that tells you you need to watch more is that in your mind when you're imagining bobby, you're imagining Jason Giddon by mistake. A VERY BAD sign!! A very bad sign indeed!!! lol.

thanks,

~kerli~

Heeeeey--had to bring this back up from watching Siren Call. I think Miss bogoalexea is right--the MFB thing is neither shippy nor unshippy, just as the fact that Eames didn't know about Frances' cancer is neither shippy nor unshippy. Why? Because let's say they're just BFFs and nothing more. Wouldn't most people tell their BFF that their mom was terminal? Most people would confide that to whomever they're closest to. But, given the "Goren personality", he keeps this to himself.

Just my 2 cents.

....

Earlier some of us where talking about Frances' engagement ring. Well, I believe Bobby wanted it because he wanted to his mom as much as he could
And the scene where Frank is giving him the ring is so so sweet to me. Especially when Bobby felt like he couldn't take it 'cause he realized that their mom actually did give it to Franky. Frank closes Bobby's hand on it: so sweet of him.

These two brothers have been through a lot when they were kids. They could of gone either way. Bobby went one way and Frank the other....

Frank was hurt after what Bobby told him in "Untethered" (... I'll listen for the splash). I bet that's why he ignored his little brother's phone call. And did you guys notice that for the first time we heard Bobby refer to Frank as "Franky" after his death... He indeed loved his brother and Frank loved him too...

Talking about "Untethered", I always found it funny and weird when Frank hesitated before telling Bobby why don't you take Eames to a motel and get it out of your system
Frank was a firm shipper... hell yeah! Despite Bobby telling him it's not that kind of partner, he still told their mom that his brother has a girlfriend. I guess he saw Bobby's affect was all wrong

I think Frank was always the tattle-tail when they were kids... Why? Well, he told their mom about the Uncle Mark conversation and the girlfriend thing....


I guess I felt like talking about Frank Goren
O... and Frank has their mom's name (Frank, Frances)

I love all of the 'shippy non-verbals' talk. It is soooo interesting to me. I have really swung over from being a ' they are in love but have not acted on it yet' shipper to more of a 'they have and are already doing something about it' shipper. What really sent me over the edge was one scene in Lady's man. Mulrooney is in the squad room and Alex moves into a corner room for privacy and you have a shot of Bobby looking up from across the room and watching them as they walk into the corner glass room. It is a very quick shot and HAD to be intentional. What strikes me is that Bobby seems to make a B-Line across the room to see what Alex and Mulrooney are talking about. He doesn't need to cross a room to tell her about where the body was dumped, Not exactly earth shattering news so it is an excuse to interrupt them and see what is going on. If this same thing happened in Seasons 1-3, I don't think Bobby could have given a hoot who Alex was talking to or why. Then, he looks really annoyed with the "is there a problem" question. Platonic partners don't act like that.

Also, I am beginning to think that Ross knows about Alex and Bobby. How could he not. Family values was on the other night and having seen it several time (it is brilliant), the final scene when Alex and Bobby turn and look directly into each others eyes and Ross is right there to see. Alex has to really lift her head up to meet Bobby's eyes. They do this often on this show. They did it in 'Playing Dead' at the wine shop. Bobby was talking to the wine guy, then while talking he locked eyes with Alex (who again lifted her head to meet his eyes) and held the look for several seconds while still talking to the wine guy! Who does this???? Their are soooo many other times that they do this, in 'Alabtross' and in 'Silver Lining' and many more. Ross did not even bat an eye at Gage's " you care for your partner, deeply" comment, he asks Eames "where is your judgement" and the famous " Is he sleeping?" If he doesn't KNOW, then he certainly mus suspect.

::shielding eyes from shippy parts::

When did Bobby call him Franky? I missed that! I guess I need to watch it again. Sigh...such sacrifices I make for love of LOCI.

Jeez... I never noticed that! Interesting, I gotta check that out


Nice


Tell me about it





In the elevator with Eames

Hmm hmm hmm -- I have to watch all those eps again with Frank in them (thanks, bogoalexea!) to pick up all that shtuff. One of the things on my to-do list this week is to buy a video-on-demand copy of Brothers Keeper (last daggun DVR broke, so I lost my copy). I wanted it anyway for the background director "tells", and how it can contradict what the actors are saying, revealing the "truth". In other words, Frank makes that "girlfriend" remark to Bobby, and we see "your heart" over Alex in the car, and then Bobby denies it to Frank. (Note to self: Need to see the expression on his face.) But my working hypothesis is, given Frank's words and the sign, Bobby is lying. Y'all can help me in the meantime by letting me know what you see!


I switched, too. Never woulda thunk it a few months ago, but now, given the clues, it is starting to make more and more sense to me. I think "the question" in Lady's Man is a huge tell. Trying not to reveal too much of my personal life, I have been asked that question exactly twice, by the same boyfriend (the man I later married) when he was feeling insecure and jealous. After the first asking, I laughed and said "no, we were just good friends" (which was the truth). The second time (obviously regarding someone else), I gave Eames' answer, because it was true. Embarrassing as hell, and then you have to go into greater detail about what happened and didn't happen, and how you feel about him now, and blah blah blah. Opens up a giant can of worms. But in that tone of voice, it is definitely a question from your boyfriend--not your BFF, not your brother, not your co-worker (oh God--the thought of that! )

Bobby could have "dropped it" before he asked her the second time, since he knows by then that Kevin is guilty, and whether or not those 2 did the deed or not is not relevant to charging Kevin. But he asks her again=jealous and prying boyfriend. If my brother (or a very close guy friend) were to ask me something phrased like that, he'd say, "What, you slept with him or somethin'?" all sarcastic and teasing. But Bobby is serious as hell; there's no levity in his voice at all. I know, it's a serious case. All the more reason not to ask her something that personal (again, opening giganto can o' worms) in the office. So good for Alex--she told him the truth. Now she's got some 'splainin' to do with Bobby. Shoulda just lied and said "no, we were never interested in each other"--woulda made the drive home that night with Bobby easier. LOL

Remember--the director can change the actors' delivery of the lines to convey or alter the intended meaning. That seriousness in Bobby's delivery is intentional. He could have said those exact words "lighter" (in a higher pitch) and still remained in character. Oh, and the writers could have phrased it differently also, but they didn't. Oh, and VDO and KE could have called a "TV time out" and said "this is out of character given Bobby and Alex's platonic (or romantic-feelings-which-are-still-unresolved) relationship", but they didn't. Yep, sharin' a bed.

callie, you're going to get me rewatching even more eps, aren't you? I do think the fanfics are right about the "rumors" that must be going around. Hey, they suspect there's something between Ross and Rodgers (and there is!), so people must suspect there's something going on between Bobby and Alex.

Okay, y'all all know I'm a fence-sitter w/ the shipping. When someone makes an argument for shipping, I come up w/ the opposite to explain it away, and vice versa. Frank hesitated before the "take Eames to a motel..." comment b/c he was afraid Bobby would take a swing at him . And, even though Bobby had told Frank that Eames wasn't "that kind of partner", Frank told Frances about her b/c he always had his mind in the gutter. Frank was a sleaze. All he thought about was drugs and sex. He couldn't understand a man having any feelings for a woman aside from sexual feelings . It may be intentionally shippy or "keep 'em guessing" on the part of the writers, but I don't think that Frank could "read" anything from Bobby or "see the truth" about his real feelings for Eames. He just thought like a low-life, that's all.

As for "Lady's Man", who knows. Yes, we know that Bobby was watching Eames and Mulrooney w/ their private conversation, then he accidentally/on purpose interrupts their conversation. Don't know if that's shippy; maybe just being overprotective b/c he sees that Eames is uncomfortable w/ this guy, or, sometimes Bobby is just too darn curious and has to know what's going on at all times. Still do, however, love the way he looks at Alex in Mulrooney's dad's house. I don't know that he was figuring out anything about her, but the thought of looking at Eames as a woman, not a partner, looks like it crossed his mind. That was really sweet and somewhat-shippy .

I, for one, don't believe that Bobby and Alex have already gotten together, nor am I able to dissect all the motions b/c them as significant (maybe they are, maybe they aren't), but I coud definitely see them getting together .

Mornin' shippy peeps. Pardon my mood but I think I woke up on the wrong side of the slab this morning .

Lots of great pics and awesome points going on here. Love the pictures from Betrayed.

I just had a depressing non-shippy thought. I think I have yet to see every G/E ep from season 8 yet. I saw most of Faithfully but when Bobby came to pick Alex up from the Staten Island ferry, did she really not know where he'd been the last few weeks?
I guessed I missed that. And I think it's a little weird. My coworkers, the close ones and the not so close ones, pretty much all know when I'm going on vacation. The coworkers I work side by side with all the time, would definitely know where I was going too. So for Eames to know nothing, is not only not shippy, it's just plain wierd. But looking back on Season 8 and what I've seen of it, there are a few things that are just plain weird.

Lady's Man is about the only episode I really remember much of. Maybe it's cause I've seen it...like ten times or so.

I know....I shouldn't speculate such things when my mood is rotten .

Oh miss scarlet, do not worry. We enjoy your company always. Here, have some of uni's Nanaimo bars, and a cup of yummy french vanilla coffee. Chocolate always helps, even this early in the morning.
::hands scarlet food and beverage::

I am not near my DVR, but I thought she said something about him being back early. Shippy or non-shippy, that would make sense. I returned 2 days early from a trip this summer and started returning work emails. The guy I put in charge in my absence said, "Hey, what are you doing back so soon?" Definitely not weird--he was just surprised. As she is when she sees that her ride to the crime seen is Bobby--Ross didn't say "I'm sending Bobby", he said he was sending "a car" to meet her.

Here is some shippy stuff to cheer you up. First of all, the non-verbal tells are true. If no one will dispute the blocking in Family Values, then you can't dispute the shippy blocking (including background images) in other episodes. Either it's deliberate or it's not. It's like being "a little pregnant". It's illogical to think the blocking, facial expressions, and background is significant in some scenes and not in others. We can dispute whether or not they have already coupled up, but you cannot ignore what you see when they're together. You know that, so just remind yourself of that when you aren't feeling shippy.
::gestures to Tells thread with paw::

LOCI is constantly reminding us to look at body language. Heck, they've got a body language quiz on the main USA LOCI website. "What does it mean when the suspect is looking down?" "What does it mean when the suspect is sitting back in his chair?" And my personal favorite, "What does it mean when the suspect is picking his nose?"
::tigger pauses for a moment for folks to look at nose-picker-man on the main USA LOCI website::
So what does it mean when they're sitting smack next to each other, dressed the same, and she taps him on the chest? She's not in a closed stance, BTW, because her hand is up at her neck. She'd be slouched over and arms crossed firmly were she feeling "Harumph" and closed off.

As a writer, and a good one at that , you know that the choice of specific words is also significant. I know uni can chime on this also as a student of literature. Wasn't the episode "Passion" originally named something else? Somebody help me with that--I seem to recall reading that. So why would they change the name of the episode so late into production? Because the new name must have been a better fit with it's multiple meanings: the passion of the former lovers, the passion for poetry, the passion for music that Zac gave up to become a cop. I can't remember Megan's role in the ep, but all her passion got her was knocked up and alone.

My point? If you suspect a phrase has a double meaning in LOCI, it does. Hate to keep saying this, but think like a director. Think like the Ross episode I referred to in Depths and how they removed the double meaning. Everybody involved in the show was trained in theater. Everyone. And if they were trained in theater, they were trained in the significance in literature, because you have to analyze the plays you're performing in and look for the symbolism and double meanings. You can't just get on stage and perform Hamlet. You look at family structures, power, madness, the dead and the afterlife, etc etc. You just do. And we haven't even added the double meaning stuff to the tells thread yet.

So chin up, my dear. Oh, and finish that fanfic!!!!

Interesting thoughts you got there... Yeah, I thought Frank hesitated because he knew Bobby would react badly to that Well, they've been over that already... Talking about Goren's reaction, despite the fact that I'm a hardcore shipper, I mostly believe Bobby reacted like that because 1)Frank's inquiry was disrespectful to Eames or 2) He was exasperated that his brother couldn't get the actually situation. But I still like to think that maybe part of his reaction was due to Frank hitting a hot button (but I'd mostly go for the two first reasons)
Yes, Frank is a low-life. But on the other hand, he knew that Eames would be able to convince Bobby to help him.... Not just that, but remember in "Brother's Keeper", where Bobby told him "mom always says why didn't I become a scientist like you"
Frank--- "She believed me"... In his voice you can feel some remorse and poor mom. And that "Your Heart" is totally in favor of shippers. It can't go any other way!
And also in "Untethered", when he told Bobby "You don't want to be my brother"... well he was right about that. I mean Bobby does love him, but hey Frank was a pain in the ass. Who wouldn't want a better brother than that?
Again, the "engagement ring" scene, Frank clearly understood why Bobby couldn't take the ring. That was rather understanding of him to rap up the ring in Bobby's hand and saying something like "it's yours" (again very sweet moment).
O... I have another moment in "Untethered", where Frank told Bobby that Donny was having nightmare. Bobby was assuming that it was the kid's bipolar acting up but then Frank said "... he's a kid, his scared", that was a fatherly thing to say.
My point of putting up all these moments, is to show that Frank isn't fully a low life and he does seem to know Bobby at some points...


You're right... That scene with Goren watching Eames and Mulrooney could go either... But I don't think he'd barge into the room if Kevin was talking to somebody else...




Well I get your concerns Scarlet.. And I hope you get to a jollier mood
I take it that it's once again the Goren personality acting up. There's nothing shippy or non-shippy about it. Like you said, your platonic co-workers know where you're going when you take some days off...
Goren was just so freaking messed up after what happen in "Frame". He probably just took those days of they must have offered him an left without a word (poor thing)
But hey, look at the shippy side. We saw how he was uncomfortable when he came to pick her up ..... Some will say, he was just feeling awkward because of his acting out in "Frame". Well, he didn't look uncomfortable in front of Ross, nope (neither Rodgers)

Indeed, this season was... well out of the ordinary. But through out it though they were a lot of sweet moments that I cherish a lot and makes me love this season no matter what. One of them is the fact that Goren has a niece. I could never forget that smile on his face at the end of "Faithfully" (very promising...)

Your fic is pretty hot btw

Yeah, Ross had no clue that Goren was coming back yet... Interesting, I guess Bobby wanted to surprise her


I like that!


I always loved that moment with them sitting so close and dressed alike in "Betrayed"... now I cherish it even more thinking about the possibility
We do see them dressing alike a lot lately... but not that alike really! That just makes you wonder. But I'm still not giving into the idea that B/A actually did it.


You just made me think of the one you love is closer than you think
I loved that confused look Eames gave after Zach read that (but it was probably case related )

Thanks for the chocolate tigger and uni. I<3 all of you guys.

I guess y'all are right in thinking Bobby was just too upset and freaked at the end of Frame, so he bailed without saying a word. But I do think it's a little messed up if he didn't even call Eames while he was gone at least once. That takes me back to the mindset of G/E not being in a relationship yet. Methinks if you went on vacation without telling or calling your girlfriend, you wouldn't have one when you got back. I know Eames is strong and faithful and all, but that just ain't right.

As for a shippy tell to counterbalance my doubting self today. How about Bobby's face at the begining of Siren Call while he waits for Eames to come out of counseling? If Eames wasn't supposed to be working, why was Bobby driving her around? I know they end up going to a call anyway and I suppose Eames got rid of her car after Jo Gage dumped a body in the trunk. But my platonic coworkers don't give me rides to doctor's appointments if I get hurt at work. If I revert back to thinking G/E were participating in extra cirriculars, I always think it started in season 6.

I know... bad Bobby bad
But hey... She's dealing with Goren (with all that implies)... Eames is used to that.


I know! He was just gonna drop her home: sweet
But then, Bobby said he can drop her off he's got a call. Why would he say "I could drop you off" while that's what he was about to do? hmmm.... fishy. A possibility just occurred to me; maybe he was going to hang with her but since he got a call all he could do is drop her off????

I agree. Just watched that scene when I went home for lunch. (I am so not totally obsessed with LOCI ) She didn’t even know where he was either. “I went to visit family”. When she goes to visit family, she goes to Staten Island. As far as Alex knows, where the hell is his family? She knows there isn’t anyone nearby. Did she know he was out-of-state? Did anyone know, for that matter? I guess Ross might know, but then don’t you think she’d find out just from being in the office? On second thought, yeah right, like he’s gonna call Ross, his PIDA boss, and tell him instead of Alex. I mean, I let work know when I’m out-of-state, just in case there’s some emergency. What if, say, God forbid, Nichols was shot?

Alex: Hey, Ross wanted me to call you. Nichols is down and he’s stable but critical.
Bobby: OK. I’ll be there as soon as I can, but it won’t be until tomorrow.
Alex: Tomorrow?
Bobby: Yeah. I’m in Wisconsin.

WTF?

After all the stuff he’s put her through, and considering she was the only one who never doubted his innocence (even Ross was suspicious), you’d think he’d at least give her a phone call. That’s just common friendly courtesy, not even related to shippiness. Yes, “bad Bobby bad” as bogoalexea said. I guess you can blame it on Bobby’s “I’m a giant clam and I just slammed shut” personality, but still.

Girlfriend, friend, coworker, whatever, I'm surprised she tolerates all of his closed-up crap. Seriously. And she doesn't just tolerate it, she fiercely defends him and goes to the mat for him, too. So why doesn't she just bail? I mean, she knows she won't go up the ladder from her relationship with him, but she could at least move laterally, you know? Something else is keeping her with this guy. Some kind of strong deep emotional investment, I think. She "gets" him and life in Gorenville, so I guess that's why she's not that upset????

You're cracking me up tigger. ...

It's true Bobby's behavior is very upsetting and she just accepts it... weird. Even for a girlfriend really. Talking about girlfriends, I bet that's one of the reasons why he's past girlfriends always broke up with him (I doubt he ever did the breaking-up). They had enough of him I guess.

This topic reminds me of a upsetting moment ITWSH2, where Bobby was on the phone and Eames ask him "your mom gonna be ok" and he's like "what's this"... Jeez, Eames just simply answers him. Then seeing that he was agitated, she insisted...

I think he needs some therapy to drop that bad pathological habit he can't let go of, you know? Well, Eames is one of a kind putting up with all that really. I often think that Bobby doesn't deserve her. However since Eames wants/has to be with him and he shows appreciation once in a blue moon, I guess they deserve each other

Again this reminds me of another moment ITWSH. Logan and Goren where discussing on where some poker club was, and Eames came to say "lets put them out of their miseries"... I LOVE the look Bobby gave her. And when Eames found the location on the computer, Goren was looking at her saying "lets go" with his face but Eames was not in the mood to budge Bobby ended up leaving with Logan without forget of course to thank his partner. I love that whole scene so much
He wanted to be with her: sweet! I'm thinking what if he didn't know how valuable she was to him, how would he treat her???

This has been my shippy point and my somewhat mystery point all along. I know Bobby has shown affection and concern for Eames throughout the eight years. But he's also been closed off, selfish and an occasional loose cannon. Again, it's probably due to my viewing being mostly of the later years, but I wonder what drives Eames fierce loyalty. I know she's all about justice and crime solving. So is her investment in Bobby Goren all about his super crime solving abilities? I know Alex is very into doing well with her job. So is her investment with Bobby about moving up the ladder? Is Alex a freakin' masochist because sometimes I wonder? When she was a kid did she bring home lost puppy dogs that occasionally peed on her favorite shoes?

What I'm sayin' folks, is I have no other explanation, other than love. And if you watch Frame carefully, Declan confirms this. Yeah he doesn't come out and say "Alex you are so totally in love with Bobby ." But listen to what he does say....
I'm still of the mindset that Alex's love is a constant, while Bobby's turns on and off a little with crap that goes on in his life. I think he always cares for Alex, but based on his family background and his level of eccentricity, he has a hard time doing the "relationship" thing.

No, just the opposite--she can't move up the ladder because she has hitched her wagon to him (see the Lizard's comments to her at the end of Smile). Which makes your question even more puzzling--she's not in it for the upward mobility.

I'm having a deja vu feeling about some ACOA issues on her part that would cause her to tolerate this. Please I hope I'm wrong--I want a nice healthy Alex and Bobby relationship!

Yeah, you're right, they definitely love each other. I think I've been up too late today--not feeling too shippy myself tonight. After watching that Faithfully opening and being reminded he didn't call her, he just made me want to beat his big ol' butter bean butt.

don't despair, you guys.

it's in the nature of the way they've set this story up, that we should have doubts and ask questions. to do otherwise would be closed-minded. and like it said in kerli's old signature, a mind is like a parachute - it works best when it's open.

do we know when he left? how long does it take to drive from Brooklyn to wherever Aunt Connie and niece Molly live? just sayin' ... he might not have been gone all that long. look how pleased they are to see each other ... it's so cute. he looks shy, and eames is smiling. how long has it been since we saw her smile?
remember ... 'lady's man', folks.

and i wanted to ask what you all think of two things in that episode that puzzle me:
1. bobby's spin. in carrie's bedroom, eames quotes her mom (the elder eames is a gossip!) and bobby spins around.

2. he is smiling stupidly over eames' head at the Bible studies group - eames is looking back at him. they don't make eye contact.

wtf?

eames' unreasonable loyalty to bobby is one reason i think these things i think of her.
and, people who grow up in unhealthy home environments are generally attracted to other people who have grown up in unhealthy home environments. it's not that weird. this does not mean that they will necessarily be unhealthy together.

bobby goren is not a usual man. if he weren't at least a little bit arrogant, he'd be like all emo angsty 'Alan Alda' and ... well, no offense intended to Alan Alda, but i like the way bobby throws bad guys. and yells - i like it when he yells. and i really like that scene in 'purgatory' when he's at the firing range? i'm ashamed, but i like it a lot. and ... well, i like ALL the things that are not very Alan Alda. i bet you all do, too. and i bet eames does. alexandra eames is not a usual woman. all those references to her having 'an extra set of brass ones' (as bobby put it in 'the third horseman' - poor eames! it's a constant theme, her being 'too ballsy') ... a man 'man enough' for her would have to have a large set of his own.

my shippy two cents. keep the faith! ship on!!

Rabeka, that touching banner is freaking awesome. i had no idea they'd snuck so much surreptitious touching in under our radar. lol!