I thought I'd share something I read on Bobby's wikipedia.com entry, and see what y'all thought.



I don't remember seeing Goren ever be abusive, to anyone. I thought I'd ask a bunch of completely objective viewers who aren't in love with him at all, instead of trying to just forget about it as I should.

This should probably be in a another thread, but since it's on the top already...

I think they mean when Goren yells at the victims, shakes them, or slams the table (all interrogators slam the table, though.) This is wikipedia, so anybody could have written it.

Wikipedia has had other misinformation. It said that Bobby won the purple heart. It said that because he wears a purple heart on the fatigues he's wearing in The Pilgrim. However, that is not his military uniform, of course. Also, you only wear a decoration on your Class A's. So, I wouldn't trust wikipedia.

The way he uses psychology/physiology to manipulate them is what I thought they were referencing. Like in first season (?) when he cuts his hand to show that the guy faints at the sight of blood... that's pretty abusive. No one was hurt, but there were other ways of finding that out. The yelling, screaming and looming are pretty nasty at times too, but as someone pointed out, most interrogators do that.

To me, the yelling and shaking someone isn't abusive. I've seen the writers let the Elliot Stabler character on SVU and Curtis/Green, etc characters on the Mothership cross the line to abusive by actually punching/hitting/slapping characters, slamming them into ground, wall, car, etc.....

I'd also remember that Wikipedia is not written by people who are required to write objective facts, so it does need to be taken with a grain of salt, especially where popular culture/tv characters/etc are concerned.

I'd be curious to see what else that particular "contributor" has written on other Wiki topics....

I agree...its obviously wrong here...I have never ever thought Goren was being abusive and trust me I would know what it looked like. Even Stabler crosses the line...but I wouldn't necessarily call him abusive either...hot-headed, driven to stop hurtful people, yeah...

I love Goren and I find this description extremely accurate, it's probably the most interesting part of the character for me, he has some obsessions and he stick at nothing in order to obtain what he wants even not to manipulate and break people; in One when he lies to Gia and says her that her boyfriend is HIV-positive , in Suite Sorrow when he uses the daughter who killed her mother because he wants to prove that her father manipulated her, Dale and Roger Jamieson's interogatory in Smothered, his anger against the old woman in Chinoiserie, Blink of course ...etc...In all the means he could obtain the truth, he always choose to push protagonists (murderer and his relatives) in an emotional turmoil, by any ways he can, in order to confess them, it's the game he likes to play, legitimate or not.

But maybe I don't well understand "abusive"...it's the problems when you don't use your native language.. Is "abusive" only means being aggresive or angry (like in Chinoiserie or A murderer among us) or it means abusing of people's vulnerabilities too (the most part of episodes) ?

I don't want say he isn't compasionnate though, but these two things go together...Too bad - or Thanks God - it's too late for me now, I don't have time to continue or find examples more accurate.

What did it say for Eames?

Here's what I read about Bobby: Although she respected his ability to close cases, Bishop did not appreciate Goren's extremely aggressive--though never physically abusive--style of questioning uncooperative witnesses.

IMO, not physically abusive, but sometimes mean and cruel, not quite mentally abusive, almost always to the "bad guy". He uses intimidation.

I once told my husband that I thought he was very mean and abusive to Nelda in the DJ episode. I thought he was cruel. Bobby knew she was disturbed. My husband said "She is a psycho killer that murdered 2 people". Oh yeah.

Nicole Wallace too. When he told her she could never have a normal life. Peter Coyote is another example. I don't think he needed to squeeze his hand.

He uses these techniques to make the "bad guy" crack in most episodes. Knocks them down emotionally to confess.

The one memorable time he was oh so wrong was in "A Person of Interest" with the Dr. who ended up being killed by Nicole. She set up the Dr. and Bobby.

The comments about Bobby in Wikipedia are not totally off the mark but I don't think they represent an objective assessment either. It appears to me that whoever wrote the comments really didn't like the character. IMO such statements as "occasionally useful and legitimate" and "manipulative and frequently abusive" are inaccurate.

Criminals use every conceivable means, both legal and illegal, to avoid apprehension and prosecution. The police have to use every "legal" means at their disposal to try and stay one step ahead. With his solve rate, Bobby's tactics are more than "occasionally" useful, manipulation is a legitimate tactic in detective work and Bobby's full scale "Goren show" is usually reserved for prime suspects or those he suspects are accomplices or are witholding information. While his tactics in such circumstances are certainly not pleasant, I don't agree that they are "frequently abusive". As Bobby said in Masquerade "What do you want me to do? Go old school and slap him around with a phone book until he confesses". He uses the skill set he has, it may be unique but it's legal and it works. Is what he does really much different from undercover cops luring johns on street corners or prowling chat rooms to nab pedophiles? It's their own "pathology" that causes criminals their problem, Bobby just exposes it.

As much as I love the character of Bobby Goren, he is not always a nice guy. He is a very complicated individual and you never know what to expect from him. As VDO himself said:

"At any given time, in any story, he sometimes is a hero in some people's eyes and sometimes is the devil in other people's eyes. I think he can do really kind things and catch the bad guy and I think he can do really awful things too."

With respect to Goren's interrogation style, VDO has said that Goren can and does "basically, very carelessly strip somebody completely apart psychologically, whether they did the crime or not and use them to catch the bad guy. You know, break somebody down, put them into an awful state so that they give him the information he needs".

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. And I LOVE watching Bobby do it.

I agree. Though Bobby might have to use some seemingly abusive tactics sometimes, you have truly look at the man to see he himself is not an abusive person. What he does sometimes takes a piece of himself with it. And yes, there are times where he might enjoy going after someone, such as Judge Garret in the Wee Small Hours. (Love Bobby's smile after he, Alex, and Carver leave the judge's office because you know it got what he went there to get.) But, honestly, who of us hasn't had someone who we would like to smack around or take down a peg? I hate confrontations and avoid them at all costs, but there are certain people who just get under my skin and certain situations which tend to really set me off. If a woman or a child is involved, I have noticed that Bobby tends to get a little more ticked than usual. Those are obviously hot spots for him because deep down he is really a tenderhearted guy. He just sometimes digs into that dark side we all have and does what he needs to get the bad guys.

I read Wikipedia for the information I can get and the amusement value. It's frequently inaccurate and incomplete, but I consider the source. "Take it with a bucket of salt" as the saying goes. Bobby does what he has to, but he never deliberately harms anyone, he just threatens. He doesn't really need physical violence, he just needs threats and mental manipulation. His physical size isn't the only thing aabout the man that's a giant, his intellect is much more potent than his height. IMHO

WORD, bcary. Awesome insight!

First let me state that I don't think he is abusive. I think he uses his vast knowledge of psychology and profiling to find the real personalities of the criminals or witnesses. But we have seen him be more physically aggressive in the recent shows ie the one with Roy Schneider and the scenes in Untethered with the inmate and the one with his brother. All part of the emotional strain he was under, but different that what we had seen before. I think anyone on the receiving end of his technique might call it "abusive" Ha
Nila

I do try. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Another thing is that in the "good cop/bad cop" scenes, Bobby usually plays the "good cop". It's Alex who usually plays the bad cop. As CMULEN states, with Bobby's size it would be quite easy for him to intimidate every suspect, but he doesn't. He usually goes for the emotional manipulation, which can be far more effective. And one doesn't usually except the "bad cop" to be the female partner. The female gender is supposed to be the softer, more caring, more maternal ones. So, its another flip of the script in the Bobby/Alex interview strategy.

Someone did point this out, but I would classify Elliot Stabler as abusive more than I would Bobby. There have only been very few times where Bobby has actually laid a hand on a suspect and usually that is to subdue them. My dad is a prison guard and was on the prison's SRT (Special Response Team. Think SWAT). Officers and guards are trained to use force if the suspect or prisoner is deemed to be a threat to themselves or others. And I don't recall, other than Brady (with good reason), where Bobby has actually physically laid into a suspect. (Then again, I have not seen every episode, so I could be wrong). And Brady actually provoked that response out of Bobby. It was exactly what he wanted to happen.

I like how it said that Bishop is more intellectually curious than Eames...not true.

Just so you guys know, the abuesive comment was removed (not by me). I can't find it on the page, so I guessthat one of us fixed it.

WORD!!!!!!!!!!

I dido that... Bobby too sweet to be abusive. Too kind. Too loving. Just the kind of person we need more of in this world instead of murderers. Too sweet he is.