DISCLAIMER: While Mlle. Chartres is well-practiced in her art, she is also aware of its limitations and of the fact that it makes some people uncomfortable. While she intends to do a thorough job, as she would if she were actually being retained, this is done in good fun and for entertainment purposes ONLY. She truly does not intend to offend anyone. She also will not reference Mr. Vincent D'Onofrio's horoscope, as he is a real person and has (obviously) not given her permission to discuss it, inasmuch as he wouldn't know Mlle. Chartres if he tripped over her.

There was once a little hole-in-the-wall in NYC--a small room covered with old, worn, cheap velvet and lit with a few candles. One night, Robert Goren, who had just come from the vincinity of 42nd Street and was clearly not himself, decided to pass through the door of this little business of little consequence. The first thing he saw when he stepped inside was a young lady, Mlle. Chartres, sitting at a small table reading a book. She was worried when she saw him (her first words to him were "Good God!"), and even though he did not know his time of birth, she was so moved by his obvious distress and his unspoken desire to anonymously vent his worries that she offered to do a "noon chart" for him and to listen to his troubles (though she did also encourage him to see a licensed psychiatrist). She entered his incomplete data into the computer--August 20, 1961 in Brooklyn--and printed out two copies of his horoscope...
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"I am handicapped," she said, "by the fact that I can't determine the house cusps. This robs me of the ability to give you a lot of interesting information, and it also robs me of the ability to determine the balances of your chart. Still, there is much I can discuss with you.

"We'll start with the Sun, which is the focal point for any astrological chart--especially a man's. Your Sun is in Leo, which means it is in its sign of rulership. People with Sun in Leo generally like to think of themselves as regal, and they have the ability to be regal in the best sense; they have such a capacity for liberality and generosity, they may be the most loyal of all the Sun signs, they love to protect and elevate their loved ones, they are blessed with lots of energy, and by all rights there should be a twinkle to them. However, not all is perfect. The problem is that Leo is a kingly sign, as I've said, and most Leos resolutely believe that they ought to be the center of attention, given all the wonderful things that they do (or are capable of doing). Not only are they happiest on center-stage, they are happiest on an elevated center-stage. There is a part of them that hates being overshadowed, having anyone on their level or, God forbid, above them. Oddly enough--at least on the surface--Leos appear to overshadow, dominate, and "baby" those dearest to them. Of course, what to an outsider appears as infantilization is, to the Leo, the most profound expression of love.

"This is connected to a deeper issue with having the Sun in a Fixed sign: I find that Fixed sign Suns have a desperate need to be not only self-sufficient, but "other-sufficient." They see themselves as failures--from a very young age--if they cannot adjust to, recognize, and meet not only their own needs, but the needs of those around them. They are terrified of projecting dependency, and this terror is amplified for those born in the last ten days of the sign like you were. Furthermore, I think this tendency is worse with Leos and Tauruses than it is with Scorpios and Aquariuses (the four Fixed signs) because Scorpios and Aquariuses tend to view questions of dependency from an internal emotional (Scorpio) or mental (Aquarius) perspective, while Leo and Taurus are very much concerned with actual material display and provision. The Taurus Sun feels like a failure if he or she is unable to assist beloved ones with little, everyday things that make the beloved's life easier or if he or she is unable to provide good quality, solid material goods to make the beloved comfortable in the home. The Leo amplifies this--particularly if the Leo Sun is a male. At some deep level the Leo sees him or herself as a failure if he or she is unable to assist beloved ones in becoming public sensations, stars who can reflect the Leo's own glory. Were you married, you would do everything possible to ensure that your wife was beautifully dressed and bejeweled so that all would love and admire her. You would do anything to advance her career--as long as the two of you didn't work in the same field! You would try and lead dear friends to similar glory--it is the highest manifestation of your magnanimity. Of course, you are deeply conflicted about your friends and your loved ones superseding you, and you would nearly rather die than accept help yourself, for to accept help is the ultimate admission of weakness and failure.

"With Venus in Cancer, I'll bet you have moments where you see yourself as quite the White Knight and you become obsessed with the idea of rescuing people--but especially women...soft, ethereal, feminine, motherly women--and when you fail to save them, you despise yourself...you feel as though you have wasted or defaulted on all that you have been given. But when you do succeed, you must lord your victory--and your potency--over the men that terrorized them. Tell me, have any of them tried to come after you?"

Goren did not reply. Mlle. Chartres remained silent as well. She tapped one place on the horoscope with her finger, and got up to get one of her books.

Upon second reading of this rather long dissertation it becomes apparent that she is simply saying that there is no SHIPPYNESS.

*smacks oldgoalie in the head* is that all you saw?

ooo! ooo! ooo! He could beautifully dress and bejewel me! I'd go around on his arm and let people gaze at and admire me!

This is proof that G and E could NEVER marry! She would become a threat to him and ruin their relationship, or one of them would have to leave law inforcement and I don't ever see that happening with either one of them.

That last paragraph is SO GOREN it makes me wonder if the writers consulted a horoscope around which to craft the character, or this is all this way b/c Chatres is a GOREN LOVER at heart?

btw, welcome to the boards, Chartres!

Yes.

I don't believe in horoscopes, but this seems more like a personality type thing. If Goren really was like this, he needs to get over himself!! (No offense!!) The kind and loving Goren I know wouldn't show off his wife to others or feel emasculated if someone superseded him...

If G/E were ever to get married (not trying to be shippy) I always see Goren becoming a psychologist and Eames a cop

She says...

(As for the length--this is about 1/10th of a proper reading, if that... When I do face-to-face readings for my friends, it can take 3-4 hours!)

I certainly don't wish to dash shipper dreams. In fact, the horoscope can create an argument for both ways. Goren's horoscope reveals deep tensions on the question of the "ideal" woman. In a man's chart, you look at the placement of the Moon and of Venus, as each represents a slightly different shade of what we call "femininity." (For a woman, you look at her Sun and Mars placements.) When the Moon and Venus are in signs that tend to symbolize different things, the end result is that the man has a hard time figuring out what he "needs" from a romantic partnership if he is straight. The Goren horoscope features Moon in Sagittarius and Venus in Cancer. Sagittarius and Cancer are "inconjunct" signs, which refers to the angles that they create, but also means that they symbolize principles that are very difficult to harmonize. Sagittarius is associated with travel, philosophy and the desire for new experiences (Goren's travel with the army, his facility with languages, his interest in other cultures, his interest in learning about other cultures--sometimes to interest women who come from a different background than he does--are all Sagittarian things). We would expect a man with Sagittarius Moon to be attracted to independent, jovial, witty, cosmopolitan women who can teach him new things or expose him to new perspectives. Indeed, the fact that Eames has "complementary skills" to his own is a turn-on of sorts--he's much happier with her than he is with the more similiar Bishop. OTOH, Cancer represents the home and family. It is private and retiring and moody, in its purest form, its strength and vitality are drained through excessive travel. Cancer is also connected with Mother. I have read for many men with a Sagittarius Moon and either a Cancer or Pisces Venus and they all have difficult relationships with their mothers and a terrible time relating to women because on the one hand, they're looking for an independent jet-set partner, and on the other, they're looking for a mother for their children and themselves.

Flashymom, first, thanks for the welcome. Second, you think that's Goren-esque, try this, from one of my books on the Sun-Uranus conjunction (which is in the Goren horoscope): "Frequently, Sun-Uranus types cannot bear to think of themselves as being anything like, or in any way associated with, some authority-figure or regime they encountered when they were young. Commonly the rebellion is against an early father-figure..."

I first pulled the Goren horoscope on a lark, but when I saw that Sun-Uranus conjunction, which is the aspect for conscious rebellion against the father, I decided to take a more serious look (plus, I like the practice of a reading)...and some of the coincidences are really scary...LOL

Whoops, sorry. I will change original posting to reflect gender-correctness.

It's not a problem--it's something that happens on pretty much every message board I've ever posted on...I guess I type like a guy!

This whole horoscope thing makes me wonder if Rene Balcer, the creator of Goren, was deliberate in making Goren a Leo with a specific birth date? That would be interesting.

As for me, I don't believe in horoscopes. But you all have fun.

Yeah i dont really either. I like to choose my own 'fate'.

!st, welcome to the forum. Happy to have you.
I am not much for astrological signs so I am not sure what what you are doing. I don't know Robert Gorons BD, but Vincent's is June 30, 1959. Even so, you nailed me. I am a taurus and broke all of the time trying to keep my beloved ones happy.Have fun with us.

Wow, super interesting. I always have a private guessing game with my favorite series trying to pick out character's star signs. It's fun to see someone with a lot more knowledge than the stuff I've dredged up on the internet take a crack at it.

This isn't the first time that I've noticed either in many series where the character and the star sign given by the author are suspiciously related...