what do you think should happen in the very last ever episode of Monk? Besides him solving Trudy's murder, do you think Monk should be reiinstated? After solving Trudy's murder, loose some of his wierdquirks? KISS Natalie? Should the season finale should be split like season 6 or made into a movie? THOUGHTS

I think reinstatement should pass from Monk's mind. It's still too far off. It was a good and logical goal for Adrian in the first season. But he's still not ready and in the long run I think he should realize he's a better asset as a consultant than a normal officer. After all - how many times did he solve cases by doing things the police couldnt?

I could live with either format for the last episode but would prefer a split 2 parter with the hopes that Monk follows suit like Star Trek and moves on to making big screen adventures that are independent of the series.

Kiss Natalie? Maybe, but leaning towards 'No'. Maybe realize he's having feelings for her, or seeing how he's fitting in to her and julie's life as more than just 'Mr. Monk' yes. I would love that. Something budding. The promise of something as wonderful as Trudy.

And maybe a final scene with Trudy, some sort of goodbye/until next time/thank you for solving the case, kind of thing.

The quirks could begin to phase, a little, but I dont think it's believeable for any kind of full recovery. Like in the BBQ scene in Mr. and Mrs. - he was still 'twitchy' but happier, healthier... etc.

But - I hate a last episode that changes everything and gives everyone a new life. I like the idea that the filming has ended but in that little corner of imagination - everything is as it was. Pluse there's an old saying "Dont change anything - Ever."

-M

I think a grand finale movie could be good, but at the end, I would like for it to be left open. Kind of like Seinfeld when it ended. They all ended up in jail, but the sentence was only for a year, so one can only assume they went back to the way they were.

Tony even mentioned a possible movie in his chat video. He didn't set anything in stone; he just said that he would be interested in doing it. The way he described it was very similar to the way Seinfeld ended (with old characters coming back, etc).

Sigh... I hate to think of Monk ending, though . Especially now...

Andrea

I agree, I want Monk to be at peace, but not with Natalie.

Hello, you all.

I would like to see him and Natalie together, and yes, with a kiss/kisses. Hey, he already kissed Sharona, and the woman in Monk bumps his head, why not Natalie?? They shoud start to get closer, this seventh season already. The writers should show Monk and Natalie caring more for each other, showing more affection between them both. I believe they are a great couple.
And I agree totally abt solving Trudy´s murder and not being reinstated.

Hugs

Everyone expects the Trudy thing to end Monk. I think Monk should be shot and he and Trudy would be happy together forever. Yeah. Then we won't have to worry about him being reinstated or making out w/ Natalie. Then Traylor can really show what a superior actress she was by crying over Monk. Oohh Yeah. Bring on season 7!

I'm a huge Natilie/Monk shipper, so I'm really hoping to see something between them. More like anticipating, because I really think they're gonna get together.

maybe nat and monk can be shot down together....ah, acting!!

0_o wow, I... really don't want any of that stuff. You and me must be, like, complete opposites, whoever you are, kind stranger.

Yeah...I AM THE ANTI-SHIPPER...

Tilts white hat toward ya.

Are those Crystal Six Guns you've got there? Because those shots rang out with tuning fork echoes.

'Shippers beware. There's a new privateer a'sherrifin' this town.

I do not remember which episode - maybe secret santa - at the closing shot, Natalie kisses Monk´s cheek, right after he explaining her that the gift he was holding was to him from Trudy, he had founded it after her death, and never had courage to open it. Well, Natalie kisses him right after it starts snowing, and he holds the cheek, smiles and do not wipe the kiss. It was a very nice touch from the writers, and I say again that I really want them ending together.
Also, I would like to include the mentioning to Dr Kroeger that Natalie reminds him a lot about Trudy - again, missing the episode title.
Dear ones not willing to see a Monk/Natalie happy ending, sorry, I really would love to see it!!!!

Hugs

The fact that there could even be a discussion over Natalie and Monk getting together (gag me! there is no chemistry to begin with. Will she call him "Mr. Monk" after they are married?) shows how undeveloped and lacking in depth Natalie's character is. She has one of the most undefined characters on television. One wonders. One would NEVER have wondered with Sharona. Maybe the writers like Natalie that way because then they can go anywhere with her. I think that Natalie and Monk care for each other, and that is obvious, but to make every feeling of affection into intimacy diminishes friendship and would not ring true to me.

Trudy was this incredibly sweet, patient, giving person with depth who loved Monk for his attributes and was unconcerned with his faults. And he loved her back. Ordinarily he does not reach out to others in a meaningful way. I don't know if the show can bring someone into that roll because her absence allows us to idealize Trudy and put her on a pedestal.

There can be girlfriends and failed relationships. Maybe even a pet (with all it's ensuing difficulties). Yes, they SHOULD solve Trudy's murder and then write a new plot device! The writers are paid to write! (and they are very good) Possibly we will find that Trudy had some eggs frozen and Monk will do everything in his power to have her baby (he IS obsessed). Maybe he will ask Natalie to have the baby (remember, we can have Natalie do almost anything because her character is so undefined) OK, just brainstorming wildly here.

It is true that while Sharona was on the scene, her personality was so big that it was difficult to introduce another woman. And there was so much juxtaposition between Monk and Sharona - almost as much as if she had been a garbage collector by profession. She challenged him at the same time she helped him--she pushed him to the next level. I don't know if we really need a love interest to make the show interesting (while Sharona was on the show, we did not).

I think Monk is destined to love Trudy forever but to try to find other love in his life in other ways. His friends on the police force, for example--true friends. Yes, I would love to see them give Monk some tools to enable him to be reinstated - or else have him decide to be happy with the life he has. If they do introduce another woman, she should be a little wacky (I loved the adoring fan episodes. the comedian played her. what a hoot.), they were a great match--if they can create someone with a little more normalcy to her personality. She could at least be a friend--their interaction was wonderful. She adored him: the big problem is Monk. It's difficult to picture Monk loving anyone, but, if Trudy's murder were solved, and if he felt that she wanted him to move on, he might, at least, choose life while waiting to be re-united with Trudy. Someone who makes him laugh is an ideal match - his life is very somber, serious, and difficult. But why would SHE choose Monk over someone else? And where is his motivation to love her? He would have to stretch and become more in her presence, as she would have to stretch and become more in his presence. Should she be as sensitive and kind as Trudy- an angel, in other words? She can't be another Trudy. I picture a younger woman, somewhat helpless and naive, who is in awe of Monk, cute and funny who makes him laugh, a sort of Amy Adams from Enchanted. No one else sees him as all-powerful and capable as she does. Monk, in turn, wants to be leaned on and revered, with responsibility, a part of society (e.g., he wants to be back on the force), at the same time he runs from it, still traumatized by Trudy's death. He would naturally fear for his new gal's safety. He's going to lose her if he doesn't grow. Maybe he chooses not to grow.

The writers never have to deal with the question of why a sought-after woman would choose Monk over others except in developing Trudy. I love the flashbacks when their relationship is portrayed believably. That is enough for me (in combination with a more dynamic, defined assistant relationship). Sometimes one can be happy without a perfect life. Happiness is overrated-one can be happy without it. (or else why would we enjoy MONK?)

Ya. The clues and hints are everywhere.

The fact that there could even be a discussion over Natalie and Monk getting together (gag me! there is no chemistry to begin with. Will she call him "Mr. Monk" after they are married?) shows how undeveloped and lacking in depth Natalie's character is. She has one of the most undefined characters on television. One wonders. One would NEVER have wondered with Sharona. Maybe the writers like Natalie that way because then they can go anywhere with her. I think that Natalie and Monk care for each other, and that is obvious, but to make every feeling of affection into intimacy diminishes friendship and would not ring true to me.

I really cannot see what could possibly concieve you to be so blind to the things right inf ront of you, in every episode of Monk including Natilie. No chemistry?! Okay--you might not see it, and that's okay, but do not bash every Natilie Monk shipper just because you don't see what is obvious and plainly true. I would be shocked not to see them get together in the end.

Trudy was this incredibly sweet, patient, giving person with depth who loved Monk for his attributes and was unconcerned with his faults. And he loved her back. Ordinarily he does not reach out to others in a meaningful way. I don't know if the show can bring someone into that roll because her absence allows us to idealize Trudy and put her on a pedestal.

The way you described Trudy reminds me of Natilie. The way she loves and cares for him and stays by his side despite his faults. And, no, Monk usually does not reach out to people--so why does he reach out to Natilie in a few choice scenes? You may say this to bash all Natilie/Monk shippers, but if anything it would increase our belief.

There can be girlfriends and failed relationships. Maybe even a pet (with all it's ensuing difficulties). Yes, they SHOULD solve Trudy's murder and then write a new plot device! The writers are paid to write! (and they are very good) Possibly we will find that Trudy had some eggs frozen and Monk will do everything in his power to have her baby (he IS obsessed). Maybe he will ask Natalie to have the baby (remember, we can have Natalie do almost anything because her character is so undefined) OK, just brainstorming wildly here.

Now you are getting crazy. This is something that, thought I would like to see it in Monk, is very unlikely. And weren't you just banishing any possible relationship between Monk and Natilie a minute ago and now you're talking about Natilie having his baby?


It is true that while Sharona was on the scene, her personality was so big that it was difficult to introduce another woman. And there was so much juxtaposition between Monk and Sharona - almost as much as if she had been a garbage collector by profession. She challenged him at the same time she helped him--she pushed him to the next level. I don't know if we really need a love interest to make the show interesting (while Sharona was on the show, we did not).

We? Many people, in fact, most people saw something and hoped for something between Monk and Sharona. So, who, may I ask, is we?

I can't imagine anyone else with the patience of Natalie. Know matter what he says or does she has patience and I noticed that in quite a few episodes every time Natalie isn't around Monk gets in some trouble. Here are a few examples: Hospital, Bumps his head, Stuck in Traffic, Man who shot Santa, Run, and probably more. Also all those kisses she gave him in on the run didn't seem to bother him any.

I am leaning toward a happily ever after for Monk and Natalie.

"One wonders. One would NEVER have wondered with Sharona."


Actually, the same shipper buzz flew around here like horse flies when Sharona was on the show. I had to use the big fly swatter than. :::Smack::: "Wipe!!!"

And I would have been a big Monk/Sharona shipper if I hadn't been told after I'd seen three episodes that she had left the show. Especially after Get's Married. Sending a man and woman undercover as husband and wife is typical 'shipping fare' in standard boy/girl detective shows. Not that I consider Monk a standard boy/girl detective show. Just that it is a commonly used device.

You know, it's actually a little bit of a shipper argument that neither Monk nor the Monk writers ever considered a male assistant. Not really an equal opportunity employer there, are they?

I third this. I think it would be really *great* for the character to come to accept himself and learn that it is possible and even healthy for him to be a complete and whole person all by himself, he doesn't have to have someone to complete him and validate his existance. Everyone should ideally have the chance to learn how to be their own person in their own right at some point in their lives. I don't think Adrian has ever quite had that, and he definitely needs it.

Besides, I sort of hate that tendency of Natalie's to ask if the victim had a family or was married, as if saying that a person who is single/unattached is not really as much of a loss if they die. Single people's lives are just as valuable and meaningful as people who are paired off, you do not have to be with someone romantically to be happy. Married or in a relationship =/= happy, complete, as things should be, or necessarilly anything good. I know a lot of people who are in relationships or are married and are perfectly miserable and a lot of people who are single/uninvolved and are perfectly happy. Besides, the whole 'getting involved with someone you work with/for' scenario on a TV shows is such a cliche.

You know, I've noticed that too, and it has bothered me. But I really think that this is not so much a character trait of Natalie's as much as it is the need of the writers to introduce information about the victim's background. Or in Dentist, to begin the gag that Natalie thinks Randy is crying for the victims.

To quote the great Gonzo, "It's plot exposition. It has to go somewhere."

Actually, I can think of two reasons that this might have been. When he was still kind of a 'shut in' when Sharona was hired, it could have been explained in the show as being that generally speaking, men are more intimidating, less nurturing and not as patient as a woman.

From the writing perspective, the other main characters that we see most often on the show all represent aspects or qualities that Monk doesn't usually seem to have except when he's pushed to an extreme. Stottelmeyer's anger and fatherly, commanding presence, Disher's impulsivness and very active imagination, Julie/Benjy were representative of things like innocence, naivete, childlike wonder... So they needed a female to be added to the mix, both for the purpose of having the child there to reflect the innocence and naivte, but also as a mirror for sensitivity, and traits that are most often considered feminine (his feminine side, you might say).

And here I thought I was the Anti-Shipper!
Hey, you know, we should form a club and get jackets!!! An insignia that is a little red circle and cross imposed over a little boat.

Hehe. I said it was only a little argument. What I've been saying is that whether or not they have
any intentions of developing any relationship, it was a very wise (and I think planned) thing to make sure they included potential relationships. People (like me) really go for that kind of thing. Okay, so Monk hires a woman because he thinks women are more nurturing. Why not an older woman? Why not a married woman?

I actually think they need more females in the mix, as every other fully grown female character that has returned for more than one episode has turned into a flake or a killer. I am curious to see what happens with the apparent addition of a gf for Randy that's been talked about.

Yeah, maybe, but then in 'Goes Home Again' she asked that about the guard that got shot in the parking lot, and the captain got kind of irritated and told her he didn't know if the guy was married or had kids, he just got there. For that matter, in Dentist, to assume that Randy is weeping over the fact that one of the guards that was killed was about to get married seems to indicate again (falsely) that a person who is married or about to be married and gets killed is somehow more tragic than a person who is not. The fact that he was about to get married couldn't be said to be expositional, either because it really had nothing at all to do with why he was murdered, and it shouldn't be considered more horrifying or sad to anyone, much less the homocide detectives working on the case, if the guy was planning to get married or not. Unless it has some bearing on the case, they shouldn't be concerned with it. The idea of the detective being reduced to tears because the guy was getting married, whether that was actually why he was crying or not, would be an indication that in at least Natalie's mind, a married or involved person's death is more tragic and thus more deserving of attention and focus than a person who was not married or involved.

We already know that in both Monkland and the Real World, some people's murders get way, way more attention and public and private outrage than others, and in a perfect world, that just wouldn't be the case. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world.

Ummm... I've done jobs that were dangerous - like relamping grocery stores - where you're on rickety scaffolds of hanging from the celing to replace the lightbulbs...

And not to sidetrack your moral argument or anything but... I've chosen the more dangerous jobs so that the guys with kids were safer.

The truth is, in my opinion, they do have more to lose.

I'm not worth less - but they're more heavily invested in the world. And somewhere along the line that deserves respecting, IMHO anyway.

-M

I want to join the club too, so do my son and daughter.

Uh-oh. We're choosing sides now. Building up our numbers. A sure sign that shipping wars are going to begin in earnest.

I suggest that we put our 'ships in a lake, fill the lake with something totally disgusting, and then take cannon or torpedo shots at the other 'ships in a fun, creative way.

But, just a suggestion.

Ah, but see, we don't have ships. I could try blowing your ships out of the water, but I'd be fooling myself if I thought I could without it resulting in twice as many shippers joining the fray. Besides, I have no more right to try to force my antishippiness down someone else's throat than anyone has to try to ram their ship down mine. And if we blow them up, then we just have bits of ship everywhere. But it sounds like you are proposing we all just let the ship hit the fans and vice versa .

BTW, would that be cannons or canon?

Hey, great! You are all welcome. We should totally plan to cancas neighborhoods with pamphlets when we get our jackets. I can see it now.

"Hello, we're from the Anti-Shipping Society... Oh, no, we don't necessarilly have a problem with the post office or UPS or anything like that. Why does everyone keep asking us that?... Okay, well, would you like to take one of our booklets anyway? Well, yes, I suppose you *could* use it to stop your table from wobbling, but we feel it would be much more beneficial if you would read it and maybe subscribe to our newsletter."

Okay, well at least we'd be getting exercize.

Me, too.

Maybe the anti-shippers could have their own island in the middle of the lake, a sad lonely island.

Perhaps you old timers can tell me better, but wasn't the Sharona vs Natalie debate fought with a substantial amount of virtual mud?

I'm thinking a lake of grape jelly might be a nice change. I mean, I'll gladly discuss this topic with all brands of shippers and anti-shippers alike, but I think most of us have seen that it can tend to get a little heated. It just seems like a little tongue in cheek levity could go a long way. (Not that I was in any way inferring that anyone's tongue was in anyone else's cheek.)

As to whether we use cannons or canon, well... it really depends. Can you see a canon?

I think that maybe the shippers should be on the little island in the middle of the lake, because we anti-shippers have this thing called 'realilty' that we have to deal with. And believe me, anti-shippers aren't lonely. Our relationships are real.

Ummm, and you do know that there is no lake, no boats, no island, and that Monk doesn't really exist either for that matter, right?

Right?

Sorry, too much reality.

Maybe I should have put that in a spoiler, huh?

Yes, when they are making a choice of whether to do a riskier job or not, when they are still alive, but if they are already dead, as they usually are once Monk and the gang are on the scene, it's a bit different. But still that's not to say that a guy with a wife and kids is worth more than a guy without. To me it is more that a guy with a wife and kids should take them into account when he is presented with the choice of taking on a dangerous profession or task, and if he has a choice he should choose to take fewer risks. Or his bosses should take that into account, maybe but he should definiotely be the first oine to take his family into account when considering taking a risk.That's a good bit different from a murder case where the guy is aleady dead. But it is commedable that you would volunteer to take the riskier jobs for that reason, I certainly don't want to give the impression that it isn't.

I don't remember the Sharona vs. Natalie debate, at least not the early days, I wasn't active at this board yet.
Grape jelly, huh?... Well, purple, sticky, sweet... yeah, that could work.

But I'm not looking to get into any heated, bad vibes debates, I was just having a little fun. If feelings are gonna get hurt, I'm gonna have to craft myself some wings made from feathers stolen from a feather duster and pars of soap.

BTW, the canon I was referring to wasn't a canon like in musical terminology, but like the canon for, say, the Sherloch Holmes stories, the stuff that was written in stone by the original creator(s). Which, for this debate would actually be pretty useless, sort of like fighting with soggy noodles.

Wow... I'm guessing you live alone, are single, about forty, and your hobbies are putting everyone on the internet down because you can't get someone to talk to you in real life. Everyone's joking around and having fun. You're the only one who is taking the shipper island thing seriously.

Most definitely, ever life is valuable. I think Natalie asking if a victim has a family (married/children) is because she knows first hand how traumatic it is for a family unit to loose a loved one, especially those that relied on the deceased for financial and emotional support on a daily basis such as a spouse/parent. Not that those lives are any more valuable than someone that has no or few family/friends; only that the loss can be more devastating.

LOL.

I'd rather it be fun too. I think fighting with soggy noodles sounds like a really, really good idea. Soggy noodles and grape jelly.

And we're going to smear it all over those cute little anti-shipper jackets you just made up, so watch out.

For those who don't know, we're both kidding. I think.

And I know what a canon is, but since we all see different things even in the show, yes it is useless, isn't it?

Yeah. I think you're focusing too much on the actual death, the actual loss of a life. No one is saying their relations with others can determine the actual value of their lives, just that it is no doubt more tragic when, say, a father dies than someone living alone with no one who really cares about them.

Natalie - as a character - should be traumatized to Julie losing her father. It makes good sense that explaining Mitch's absense was one of the worst things she would have ever had to do to her daughter.

Exposition aside, I find it hard to be infuriated by the question. It IS a larger trajedy when children, wives, brothers and sisters have to feel the loss.

Twenty years ago I had a sprawling family of which I was the youngest. It would have been a terrible loss should I have passed away then.

Today I have 3 blood relatives, only one of which is 'family' - My Grandmother. And after she passes, I am alone. And if something should happen to me then?

Nothing more or less is lost than when I was a child. But the blow, the emotional damage to the world that would be felt - Is negligable.

If I had to see death every day - or on a weekly basis during filming - There would, in my mind emerge 'easy' deaths and 'complicated' ones - catagorically speaking.

It's easier to be sad for the one who passed than it is to ache for the ones who live on. And I think that's a very real component to the writing.

So I think the question has merit given the situation and character - and the writing.

In my humble opinion anyway,

-M

Wow. That's sad. We'd miss you.

It doesnt make me sad anymore. It just is. Acceptance I think they call it.

And I appreciate being missed but... How would anyone know? I'm no Doctor Kroger. Just a face on the net who fades with time in to silence.

It sounds peaceful to me really. My family always made such a fuss about things. If I have a family of my own before I pass then - great. And if I dont then... Quiet and peaceful it is. It's really win-win in my mind.

But I'd miss you guys too. And haunt some of you in the shower. But that's really a different issue.

-M

This makes a lot of sense, and I'm sort of surprised I didn't think of that. Of course her mind would first go to that, it could be that every case for her takes her back to that point in her life when she first lost Mitch, and she still doesn't know exactly what happened for certain. So I guess it's not like she thinks married/family people are more of a loss, she just very easily relates to what she has experienced before, just like everyone else. I guess she's thinking more of the tragedy of the people left behin to deal with losing someone. It's so obvious now it's kind of embarrassing.

But I would miss you. As would a few people on the board, I'd wager. And my kid, who somehow has decided that you are 'The Cool Guy'. I know why it is that she has given Raven a special designation as 'The Kiwi Lady', but I'm not sure of the specifics of how you became 'The Cool Guy'. But she would feel your loss, I'm sure.

Thank you. That's very sweet.

...

And you should raise her allowance.

-M

Such an ending would bring closure to most fans.

For the Trudy lovers a recreation of Christopher Reed's "Somewhere in Time" would be a perfect ending. They are reunited while Natalie is free and can resume dating and may turn to Randy which would then make another segment of fans feel happy as well.

(Whines) But I don't want closure.

Really, I would be disatisfied with Monk's death. When the last episode of Monk airs, hopefully in the far distant future, I would like it to be able to be revived in movie form. Even if it is like the Perry Mason made for TV movies. I would like Monk to live on.

Even if I couldn't get my wish for Monk and Natalie to get together, I would at least like to think that they're working together somewhere.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts about how you feel the show should end.

Your description of angelic Trudy rings true while your feelings on what type of woman would be ideal for Monk I also think have credence.

However, being a Nataliephile, I think the reason why we see no romance between her and Monk is that the writers have purposely refrained from having her outwardly display affections for her boss for she respects his feelings for Trudy and would never want to insidiously undermined them.

Only when he returns from the dead is she unable to hide her feelings, be they simply admiratrion for him or something unexplainably deeper that maybe even she doesn't realize the exent to which she herself feels

Finally, I don't know how well Marci and Monk would mash as a couple but I thought that was a classic episode.