So...
1) Elliot asking to go home
2) Checking on the kids and gettin' busy...
3) Kathy saying she's pregnant
4) Kathy getting held up at gun point
5) The 'did you date?'/car accident/ birth of the baby/ 'oh thank god you're okay'
6) OMG Elliot's Blind!!!
7) Kathleen breakdown/ Mom lives
8) NASA psycho/ My son was named after you/ Kicking his butt
(Im sure there are more but these are the most memerable)

Olivia....
1) I have a brother who may be a rapist
2) He was framed
3) Almost raped (on a case mind you)
4) Deals with it in therapy...

What you all are missing is the fact that when I say the Elliot Stabler show I mean him outside of the job. Not on a case. Olivia this season has had a few things outside of the job but the rest have been on a case. That's different.

I didn't just bring up Olivia though. I want to see more of Munch and Fin. Like I have said before, I love Elliot's kids but I don't think they need to be brought up every time a case deals with kids or a parent of a child. It's repetative and we already understand that cases with kids effects Elliot. We shouldn't have to see it every time. If Elliot's kids of family were to be brought up at all I would like it done like it was in season 1. For instance, seeing Elliot reading to the twins on the couch and getting called in on a case. That kind of thing.

SVUlovesME Posted Today, 05:49 PM
I have to agree with you. Ever since Mariska's Emmy win, she has been front and center on the show and Neal Baer stated "Mariska is the star of the show" in one interview. She has had two episodes dedicated to her personal life while Elliot had one with a relative trouble with the law. While it does seem Elliot was in the center of attention, who was it that 'saved' Kathy and the baby from the car accident? Olivia. Who spoke to Bernadette about helping Kathleen in the end? Olivia. Elliot missed one episode of SVU (PTSD), Olivia took over Persona, Babes was supposed to be an Elliot episode but Olivia had herself solo scenes for the case during their tendoms. Mariska has also had more 'powerful' performances more then Chris- with Undercover, PTSD, Smut, any episode thread that would have a comment "powerful Mariska performance". How often do you see that for Chris?

Add to the list Blinded, which should have focused on Elliot dealing with blindness and accepting help from his family, but which turned into a fight between Casey and Olivia.
And Signature, which shouldn't have been Elliot's episode but rather should have had Munch as the detective working with Laureen Cooper.

Mary that list is waaaay longer.

If you compare the times Elliot's family has bentioned over the years(as SVUlovesME has so greatly done with the children and marriage) that list completely overpowers Olivia's. I guess they're trying to even it out a little.

DSR Posted Today, 06:58 PM
Mary that list is waaaay longer.

If you compare the times Elliot's family has bentioned over the years(as SVUlovesME has so greatly done with the children and marriage) that list completely overpowers Olivia's. I guess they're trying to even it out a little.

Out of the 214 episodes aired, Elliot has talked about his family in 77 episodes with only 30 of those having a member of the family actually appearing in the episode. Given these are the most most important people in Elliot's life, that's not a lot.

It may not be alot. But it's enough.
Like I said there are other characters on SVU. Olivia is the main character on the show, and we here more about Elliot and his personal life than hers. That's why they've made the effort these last few years to have more of Besnon's life. It's going to be a while though before you can compare the episode's they've featured on her and the one's featured on Elliot.
Believe it or not OB is what draws majority of viewers to SVU. Not Elliot nor his family. That's why we don't hear from them as much now.

Wow, and I thought I had to wait a couple more weeks for a good discussion... I do not have time to be writing this, but I can't resist. Mary, normally I would be the first person to disagree that we see too much of Elliot's family. However, in the context you put it in, it makes complete sense.

Now, first off, I will be the first to admit that (especially since MH's Emmy win), the show has really favored Olivia's character. Personally, that doesn't bother me at all. But it is when a definite shift in the direction of the show happened. A lot of people after that have said that the show hasn't been the same. They don't like the current writing, etc. Again, I don't mind the personal direction the show has taken although I also love a good case episode every so often. I'll be completely honest--I was not a big fan of season 9, but I'm loving season 10. I think it's a matter of personal preference. Some people watch for the cases, some watch for the characters, some watch for a mixture of both.

And because we've seen MH nail every performance they've ever given her, her character has definitely played a more predominant role. The fans respond to her, the reviewers respond to her, and the award shows certainly have as well (at least in nominations--still very disappointed in the lack of wins). Chris has never given us that, and he's had the episodes before (maybe not so much recently). So I think TPTB are responding to what the fans seem to want. And I've been very happy about it.

However, with that being said, I have to give Mary kudos for explaining this because I've never heard the argument phrased quite like she did where it makes so much sense. Yes, on the job, MH gets the screen time. But when it comes to what happens outside of the job (at least in recent years), the show isn't just tilted toward Elliot's character and life outside of work, it's falling off the scale, especially when you put the entire cast into context. We used to see Olivia outside of work too. Elliot had the scenes with his family, but we used to see Olivia going grocery shopping, staying late in the office with Cragen (admitting that there was nothing to go home to). We used to see her getting ready for work in the morning, bringing dates home, etc. When's the last time we really saw that? Season 1 was loaded with personal tidbits from Olivia. Now, we don't get that. The woman has to spend some time outside of home--how else can she spot a designer label without a second glance? How else does she meet the guy from 911 or Kurt Moss, etc. Why is it that we never see her outside of the office anymore (unless it's in a therapy session--although keep those in there because I'm enjoying them)?

And Munch, Fin, and Cragen? I understand Cragen to an extent because the show is trying to portray him as never going home. That's the whole reason behind the cot being in his office. But why not show us him there late (like the scene where he and Olivia were talking about never going home). Why not show us him going to AA meetings (instead of just a comment "gee, John, let me check with the guys at my next AA meting").

And in 10 years, have we even seen the inside of Munch's house? Does he even live in a house, or is it an apartment? We know he drives a car, but everything else about him is a mystery unless you've watched Homicide or one of the other shows he's been on (which I haven't). He's talked about a couple of uncles, and we even met one. But they've created a distance between him and any "family." Why? What is it about his family or lack thereof? Why not have an appearance by one of his ex-wives, particularly Gwen? Why not give us something about who he is outside of the job?

And Fin too. Again, I don't think we've seen his apartment. Why not introduce us to those girls he buys flowers for? Why not show us his new "girl". We've seen the inside of Ken's apartment, but nothing about him. They've given us a little bit more in terms of a family history, but every interaction we've seen between them has been a part of a case. Why not show how the cases affect him with his family like we see with Elliot. Why not see him go back to Teri and apologize for not understanding how she had been molested. Why not show his guilt about not seeing it? The glimpses we got of their relationship (IMO) showed two people who really cared and respected each other, but couldn't work it out because of his dedication to his job over his marriage (yeah, Elliot's been there too). So why not show how Fin still cares enough to help give Teri at least a referral to someone who may help her get past what happened to her. Why not see him go back and try to be a better father to Ken?

The list goes on and on. And unless I'm misunderstanding her, that's Mary's point. It's not that the show hasn't been more focused on Olivia's character overall. It's been that when we're not on a case, we don't get to see what the rest of the squad is like. We don't get to find out if Huang is even married or not. We don't get to find out what Melinda's daughter or husband's names even are. She just wants to see some balance overall. We know how Elliot's work affects his home life. But how does it affect the rest of them? Okay, sorry...end of novel.

The problem with your list is the time factor...Elliot may mention his wife or his children and it takes up a whole 30 seconds of air time...while Olivia's brother had two full episodes dedicated to him...

I do agree with you on your point that I want to see more of Cragen, Munch, and Fin...

DSR Posted Today, 07:46 PM
It may not be alot. But it's enough.

For you maybe. But there are people who who would prefer more of Elliot with his family.
-------------
Like I said there are other characters on SVU. Olivia is the main character on the show, and we here more about Elliot and his personal life than hers. That's why they've made the effort these last few years to have more of Besnon's life. It's going to be a while though before you can compare the episode's they've featured on her and the one's featured on Elliot.

When SVU started Olivia was one of five detectives in the squad. Cassidy didn't work out and left. At the end of the first year Jeffries, another female detective, was replaced with Fin, a male detective. That left Olivia as the sole female detective with the squad. While Alex had interactions in the squad room, she pretty much stayed on the legal side of things.
While Alex was in the series, everybody got to play. There were episodes that focused on Munch and Fin and even Cragen.
In season 5, Alex left and Casey came. But Casey didn't get the same focus that Alex did. She did have individual episodes were she was featured. But there were episodes where she only had a token appearance. And the weekly court room scenes faded away.
Then in season 7, Neal Baer changed the focus and the direction of SVU. He pushed Olivia into the forefront as much as possible. Ratings started to drop. Then Mariska got pregnant and they had to pull back form that position. But she came back from maternity leave, she was pushed back to the front again. And the ratings continued to drop. The season finale Screwed did not win the time slot.
Season 9 brought the partnership back somewhat. And the ratings went up again. Not as high as they had been before season 7, but at least SVU was back to winning their time slot.
The total numbers of viewers hasn't changed much for season 10. But there are more people overall watching Without A Trace than SVU. But SVU has more viewers in the 18-34 category. That's the target audience Neil Baer was going after when the direction was changed.
After reading that you should understand when I say Olivia is not "the main character of the show". The team of Elliot and Olivia is the main character. People want to see the partnership working together. When that stopped and we saw more of Olivia alone, the ratings dropped. Focusing on Benson's life was not what people wanted. When the partners started working together again, the ratings went up.
-------------------
Believe it or not OB is what draws majority of viewers to SVU. Not Elliot nor his family. That's why we don't hear from them as much now.

Olivia Benson may be the reason Mariska Fan Girls watch the show. They will almost certainly stop watching if she leaves. But the ratings show a different story. Benson without Stabler didsn't get the viewers. And where Elliot goes, his family comes along. We did see more of them in season 9 and 10 when the ratings went up from season 8.
In season 6 when SVU got its highest ratings, there were up to 16 million viewers. Now the average is about 10 million. Overall 6 million people stopped watching SVU. I can't say why all of them stopped watching. But I do know why two reasons why a good number of them did. There was too much focus on Olivia Benson and the quality of the writing went south. And most of them haven't come back.

I agree with you in the fact that we need to see the rest of the gang outside of work. I remember when we saw Olivia with her mother (can't do that anymore) at a restaurant or coming home from grocery shopping. I wouldn't mind seeing Cragen at a meeting talking about his job and how he copes as an alcoholic and what keeps him from going back to the bottle...


Like I said before, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them either, it is just the last few seasons it has been all Olivia. I understand what you said about the writers and I admit I haven't thought about things that way and you bring up good points....I just want the good SVU back...

Not just me, for alot of people. Just because it's not enough for you is an entirely different story.
And I take offense to you calling it the "Mariska Fan Girls" people who have all different types of sexual assualt watch the show becasue they identify with OB becasue of her histroy, that wasn't nice to say at all.
Just because you don't like her is on you, sorry.
The rating I believe went up from season 8 becasue the majority OB was GONE. It may have to do some with Elliot's family on the E/K part, but your exaggerating if you think the majority of SVU'er want to hear about the "stabler clan". I don't know how many boards you've been too, but I suggest you visit some so you actually know what people want to see instead of basing it on "ratings". I can tell you that now. You cannot tell me you know why people started and stopped watching SVu. Period. You have no proof but your gut feelings and ratings. How can you be sure that writting doesn't play a big factor in the equation? You don't, your simply guessing.
So I tell you with knowledge other than "ratings" Olivia is the main character. Don't get me wrong, I get tired of her personal episodes and what-not and would like to see Elliot becasue he's the real reason I watch SVU. But I'm telling you feed-back from alot of people(and I mean alot). If you want the links, I'll PM you. Ratings say one thing, but in the end the people say what they want and that goes beyond ratings.

I'm sorry, but just because a few people from other boards have their own opinion on the situation doesn't make them right either. They agree with you, so they must be right...You can quote 10 people, but what facts are you talking about? The ratings are real facts. What other facts are there...

The show had the highest ratings are when both Stabler and Benson were actually friends and acted that way. The show had more viewers when we did see the two main characters out of the unit as well as at work.

Did I say that????? Hisgirl bases her opinion soley on ratings. Does she know why the ratings are such way, no. But when you have feedback from thoussads, not ten, of other watchers then you know why the ratings are the way they are. The rating tell you HOW many people are watching. Not WHY they are watching. So anything after that aren't facts, they are based on what hisgirl wants to think, which isn't a valid source. Thank you. It's not about agreeing with me sweetheart, it's about what people in general are saying. I can't help that, it isn't my fault that's the way things are.

I can't say it any other way so, whatever, I'm done with it.

You know thousands of people who all agree with you on your opinion of SVU and why people watch? I find that a little hard to believe...but I guess I will take your word for it...

You still haven't given me a valid reason for your point of view either. What are the facts you are basing what you are saying on ..You are basing your discussion on opinion too...

But again, I guess we will just agree to disagree...It is getting late and I have to get up for work at 5:00am...Thanks for the discussion....

Yes there are thoussands of people on other boards who all favor OB and watch it becasue of her. The offer for hisgirls stands for you also. Say the word and I'll PM you some links. Hisgirl and yourself said reason such as family friends etc based on ratings, and not feedback.
I have also provided you with a valid reason when I said people relate to OB with her sexual assualt and being a child of rape. Not to mention a woman wanting more out of life. That's not my opinion, that's what I have read other's say. I myself am drawn to Elliot more, but not nearly as many people as OB.

Goodnight though

Your reason is just as valid as hisgirls reasons for viewership...But, both are based on opinion...Hisgirl sees the numbers and bases her opinion on that, while you read other boards and base your opinion on what you read...To me that is the same thing...

What?
Hisgirl see's the rating and makes a guess on why they are the way they are.
My opinion doesn't play a factor on what I'm reading what other people say, simple as that. If I see clouds of people saying why they watch the show (because of OB) and am relaying the info here how does my opinion play a role in that. It doesn't. What they're saying I'm telling you guys here. Hisgirl is just making guesses. That's the difference compare to guessing and having actual feedback from viewers

I don't agree. The episode with the car accident, his family stuff was more then half of the episode. But throughout the years I can pretty much add up Elliot having twenty times more personal time then Olivia.

We are going far off the map here. All I said was that Elliot's family life gets a lot of personal time and somehow Olivia gets brought up??? Is it because she is another main character? Because I am a fan of the character? If that is the case then I am capable of liking other characters.

But lets get back on topic. Raise your hand if you would go out with Dickey if you went to his high school...

*RAISES HAND*

Whether or not it was your opinion, doesn't mean it wasn't someones opinion...ratings are feedback from viewers...

Here's mine (so far)
1) "I'm a child of rape"
2) "my mother was an alcoholic"
3) biological clock is ticking, motherhood pangs
4) Simon
5) finding more about her father
6) 'saves' Kathy and Eli from car accident
7) hero of Elliot's job (Dependent, Confession), health (Blinded)
8) her sexual assault from the prison basement
9) therapy/dealing with PTSD
10) being single



Actually we did see the inside of Munch's apartment, in the episode called Uncle in season 8.

I'm not disagreeing with the part about Munch, Fin, Cragen, Haung, Warner, even Greleck, to have their personal life front and center. Fin is probably third of the detectives (besides Elliot and Olivia) to see a personal side and life to him with Teri, Ken, Darius. I'm all to see the rest of the main cast in a personal light.

You brought up Olivia too...not just Elliot...and I don't believe a 3 second line, even if you add it up will come close to Olivia and her brother's moments...even if you include the episode with the crash...but that is my opinion...and we all know the saying about opinions...lol...

And for your other question...Hello! **Both** hands are raised...Dickie is definitely a cutie....but I think dob4l has the market on him...

Okay let's distinguish this now.

A rating tells how may people are watching svu. Not why. That's what feedback is for to know WHY a person is watching svu. It goes beyond counting on the Nielson scale, it's about people telling you why. A person can have all the rating in the world but if they have no feedback from viewers they can't say with knowledge why a person is watching the show.

Hisgirl can post rating from season 1-10, but does that mean she knows why some seasons have more rating that others. No.
But a person can get feedback and that's when the knowledge of why people are and are not watching SVU. That's what this whole thing is about. Ratings and Feedback are not the same. There's no opinion in a person telling you why they watch SVU.

Again...agree to disagree...

Whatever,
Have a nice sleep.

I can bet you a thousand bucks that Elliot's personal life has been brought up ten times more then Olivia's and I know in my gut I will win.

If you read my first post, I brought up everyone of the characters. Olivia was the one that was picked on and I can't understand why. This same discussion has been brought up many times and it seems like each and every time Olivia gets the 'She has far more personal time then Elliot.' Al lI have to say is...'Please...'

Thanks...I will eventually get there...same to you...

I'm like an owl. I go to sleep at like 3am and wake up at 5:30. Come home and go back to sleep. LOL screwed up yeah, but hey I can't get my schedule back on track.

G'Night all!!!!

I 100% agree. That's what I was thinking but you beat me to the punch. The problem with this discussion is that HGFM is an Elliot fan so the man or anything about him can do no wrong. In her and other Elliot fans, he and his family life is the reason people watch. The same situation goes for Olivia fans. Olivia fans think she can do no wrong and that she is the main reason viewers watch the show. Who is right and who is wrong? Who knows and frainkly who cares. You watch it because you like Olivia and HGFM watched it because she likes Elliot. The point is that it is being watched and because of it, we fans can watch more. That's the point. You can't please everyone.

Watching Paternity, at first it really did seem to be like an "Elliot" episode with the pending birth of the baby and then the car accident happened. Elliot was elsewhere while Olivia was right there aside Kathy. You can still say it's an "Elliot" episode because Kathy was in the majority of the reminder of 20 minutes in the car crash but then Olivia was right there, so how would we put it as a category? An Elliot and Olivia episode? Only it's not all of Elliot for those 20 minutes he may have been onscreen say a good 5 minutes all together while it was Kathy who was front and center. Before Paternity, Kathy was an in-and-out character, blink or you miss her type appearances.

On a side note, I really hope Isabel (Kathy) has a part of SVU in her autobio-book, it would help us all alot on an insider's point of view about the episode itself as well as the Stabler marriage, etc.



Wouldn't be the first time! LOL
I blame it on SVU withdrawls



I don't think you are the one who brought up Olivia in that regard but it did open a can of worms and I guess it kinda helps a few (myself included) to get a few things off one's chest despite the thread being completely about something else.



I think dob is going to have to fight you on that!
Just warning you

Dickey would be one of those boyfriends that brings your lunch and carries your books for you. LOL! Such a gentlemen...AND HE'S MINE! LOL!

Well...you can do what I've done- go through all the episodes of SVU and list of Olivia's points of her personal and professional life. Since you did say that you have been watching seasons one by one on DVD, you can jot down certain tidbits and can do comparisons.

LMAO...No way am I going to sit down and write every single episode, the time and the scene. If I am going to put forth that much effort I really will win a thousand dollars.

DSR Posted Today, 09:13 PM
The rating I believe went up from season 8 becasue the majority OB was GONE. It may have to do some with Elliot's family on the E/K part, but your exaggerating if you think the majority of SVU'er want to hear about the "stabler clan". I don't know how many boards you've been too, but I suggest you visit some so you actually know what people want to see instead of basing it on "ratings". I can tell you that now. You cannot tell me you know why people started and stopped watching SVu. Period. You have no proof but your gut feelings and ratings. How can you be sure that writting doesn't play a big factor in the equation? You don't, your simply guessing.

Olivia was missing from only 5 of the 22 episodes of season 8. All of those were in the beginning of the season and would have no bearing on the decline in rating over the whole season.
Basing conclusions about SVU viewers as a whole on Internet boards is not a reasonable practice. It does not contain a wide enough cross section of even the people who watch SVU. You need to have access to a computer and the Internet. Not everyone does. Many people are still not comfortable expressing themselves online. Especially if they feel intimidated because their opinion is different from the majority. They may be happy to read but they don't want to talk. So the people who post tend to be younger people who have ready access to the boards, who are comfortable talking to complete strangers, and who are invested enough in the show to express their opinion about it.
And they frequently go to multiple boards and express the same opinions. So the thousands of people you say are giving feedback on the boards is really a much smaller number than you think.
The Nielsen ratings may not have worked out all the problems with how to deal with people recording programs to view later. But they are based a sufficiently large sample of randomly chosen viewers to be statistically accurate. There is a mathematical formula that tells you the sample size needed to produce the correct results.
Besides just the numbers, there are also people who do statistically correct surveys asking people why they watch or don't watch particular shows. They are not generally released to the public. But it's a standard business practice to get accurate feedback on your produce before making major business decisions. It would be safe to say that Wolf Films and NBC have had the studies done to find out why people say they stopped watching SVU as well as what viewers want to see in the future.
I did say I don't know why all the people who stopped watching SVU did so. But I do know about the dozens I have talked to about it over the last three years. The reasons given have been consistent. The quality of the writing is not there anymore and there is too much focus on Olivia Benson. Those two things are viewed as linked together. The sample size may not be sufficient statistically but it does cover a fairly broad based sampling.

The thoussand people I was saying are all on 1 board. It's actually over 5,000 members there, only the 1/5 of them really post.
And most of them are actually grown, not children. Most children are on this board and TV.com
In all I see I misunderstood what you we're saying, I apologize

DSR Posted Today, 11:46 PM
The thoussand people I was saying are all on 1 board. It's actually over 5,000 members there, only the 1/5 of them really post.
And most of them are actually grown, not children. Most children are on this board and TV.com
In all I see I misunderstood what you we're saying, I apologize

You don't need to apologize for expressing your opinion. If you misunderstood what I had said earlier, I'm glad I was able to explain it better. I's rather have a civilized discussion than talking past each other.
But being a good do-bee, your apology is accepted.

Wow...um...okay...That wasn't condescending...but whatever...Civilized conversations are good but the problem was that people were not getting heard and their main points were getting completly overlooked. That's when frustrations happen and people seem like they are fighting.

As someone else already stated, the only story that the ratings show is the the number of viewers that are increasing/ decreasing... nothing more. You claim to know that a "good number" stopped watching because of the focus on Olivia Benson. How could you possibly know that? You don't. Nobody can. Contrary to what Irisheyes said, you have not provided any facts that back your opinions. Especially when PTSD attracted more viewers than the bulk of episodes shown last year in this current season. (Elliot wasn't in that one) I could just as easily say that ratings went down because people want Elliot and Olivia together and are fed up with it... I'm guessing a few here would object to that. Ya see? Ratings mean squat to this discussion. Maybe if you presented proof that ratings go down on Mariska centered episodes (as oppose to seasons) or something… but even then… it’s still questionable.

I have my guesses and I think the lower ratings were caused by poor writing and crazy storylines. The endings of the last two episodes, for example, were horrible. That's my guess.

As for the "Olivia Benson may be the reason Mariska Fan Girls watch the show"... let's try not to be so condescending, sexist and inconsiderate. One, there are many who watch Olivia Benson because they connect with her character emotionally… many which know nothing about the actual actress, Mariska. That’s what kept me watching my first two years as a fan of the show… I didn’t even have internet at the time... I couldn’t pronounce her name and I didn’t care. Two, I have many male friends who watch and enjoy Mariska. Even male editors/writers of top magazines have predicted the show’s doom if Mariska leaves. Furthermore, I’m a fan but I’m no “girl.” I know people of all ages who admire Mariska’s acting. I’ve heard the phrase “Mariska Fan Girls” before… I know the definition and it’s insulting… as if every fan of Olivia is some crazed obsessed-with-Mariska pre-teen who thinks Olivia can do no wrong. I’m not a “Fan Girl” and I don’t think the show will make it with out Mariska. She’s become the face of SVU… I love Chris, but I don’t think he has that same effect. The commercial engineers see this, which is why they make sure to highlight Mariska’s appearance in the previews… even if she’s in an episode for a minute… they will act as if she is a big part of the episode. Why do they do this? It’s no mystery why…

With that being said, this does not mean that I want less of the Elliot-Olivia partnership and more of Olivia centered episodes. Partnership = awesomeness.

Adding to the debate of whether it has turned into the Olivia Benson Show… I think it has this season… BUT not concerning her personal life. I would like to see more of that. I think she has more lines, but most of the time they deal with the cases. Would I like to see more of the Stabler family? Not really. They bore me… but that’s me. I’d prefer to hear more about Munch or Cragen… or Olivia’s love life progress (if any). I like when they make appearances, but I don’t want any more focus on them… especially Kathleen.

Lastly, Olivia may have missed appearances in 5 episodes… but what matters is how long she was in those episodes.
In Clock, Recall, Uncle, Confrontation, Underbelly, Cage, and Outsider (7 episodes) Olivia made no or brief appearances. A minute doesn’t qualify as present in my book. If you went for a quick bathroom break you missed her.

This is where you are wrong...well partially wrong. The ratings are factual and are taken from a wide variety of people, not just the people on the message boards. I believe hisgirl proved her point about the ratings...just because you don't agree with what she is saying, doesn't make her point any less valid than the opinions of people on message boards...If what you all are saying is true about the ratings, and how they don't prove anything, why even spend the money to take them?

Great post, couldn't agree more. especially about the part of Mariska's name! I actually didn't know what it was until the tv commercials for "Plain Truth" and I thought the name was so weird at that time. I am also a fan of Mariska and a fan of Olivia, but I am way past "Girl" I guess I would be considered one of the "elders" on the board. ..but if she leaves the show then I'm done.

As far as the Stablers children, I don't exactly need them or look for them but if they are on the show I don't mind, I but I would rather see little bits here and there of each of them than too much of one of them (Kathleen) I would actually like to see what Maureen is up too, or Elizabeth.

I have a friend that quit watching SVU because of the overuse of Olivia as well as the departures of Casey and Chester. Let's just say the only positive thing she can say about Mariska is her President choice in Obama.

I think we're misunderstanding each other.

In previous post hisgirl has shown us rating, but then she said why she thinks the ratings were the way they are based simply off the rating numbers.
We're not saying the rating are unimportant just that we have seen other feedback from viewers on why they watch SVU, which disagreed with what hisgirl is saying. We're not saying her reasons are wrong, we're just saying we have knowledge on why alot of people watch svu, which goes a lot farther than someone guessing why people watch svu. It's been said by Neil Baer and Dick Wolf how the viewers love OB and relate to her and watch mostly for her that can be from email's, snail mail and the production blog . Even MH always talks about the emails she recieves from viewers speaking on saying the watch because of her and they love and relate to her .
Whether it's 1 person or 1,000,000 that's feedback from someone and you can't get that from ratings. We can say with knowledge alot of people watch because we've heard from them. That's not an opinion, those are facts. Ratings can't tell us that.
Ratings just show how many people are watching, not why they watch it. Feedback explains why ratings are the way they are. Which is what this whole discussion is about.

Hisgirl knows what we mean when we say it, and when she explained herself, we're all actually saying the same thing. What your say is contrary to what hisgirl is saying.

Exactly.



Is your friend… Hisgirlforevermore??

I kid.



I didn’t say that ratings don’t prove anything. Of course ratings are important… a show wouldn’t survive with out viewers so naturally view count is important.

I am not wrong. The ratings are factual, yes… but not to this discussion. SVUlovesME said that her friend stopped watching because of the overuse of Olivia. She KNOWS that’s why her friend doesn’t watch the show anymore. Again… saying that THIS number of viewers watched this season and THAT number of viewers watched another season… does only that… gives us an estimate on the audience size. That’s it.

HGFM has not proved her point. The problem is that there are very different factors that go in to the reasoning for ratings. It can't be one or the other. Everyone watches SVU for various reason. What I like about the show, another person will like something different but...we are all watching the show, hence the ratings. Therefore the only conclusion is there is no right or wrong answer. You can't say, 'This is why the ratings are high' or 'This is why the ratings are low' because there is no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you can answer is 'This is why I like the show.'

HGFM doesn't hold a candle, much less a torch, on anti-Olivia/Mariska feelings that this woman has. I would copy some of the posts she written about Mariska/Olivia but I don't really think it's right nor fair considering it's from another forum and I want to play it safe.

Ratings are important, and yes it's true that we don't know why every viewer has turned off of SVU in 4 years, 2 years since. There could be a number of reasons: no interest, fed up, another TV show to watch during the time slot, work, sleep, etc.

This is why I really suspect SVU rating have gone down. I have some shows I love to death, but I'll watch other shows before I'll watch a new episode of that show.
Especially with the economy. People work more hours, people need sleep or other things are going on. Especially since it's a week day. If I'm correct SVU used to be on, on Fridays, which is a tad bit more convientant, and then switched to tuesday. That may be another reason the rating's started dropping.
Like QueenOlivia said, I would actually like to see Maureen. We've seen all the rest except her and lizzie, but I think with her being the 1st born she has a closer bond with her father

Now that I think about it... I wouldn't mind seeing Maureen either. I've gotten an overdose of Kathleen and Eli, which has made me group the Stabler children as a whole and decide I don't want to see them. I would like to see an episode with Maureen or Lizzie.

And this is my first year recording every episode... I'm never home anymore... I'm either working or in dance class... or in a staff meeting... I just don't have the time. I record it for my friend, a resident of mine and my sister too... they don't have the time either.

Well SVU is moving to 9 PM when Jay Leno's new show starts so maybe that will help with the ratings

Elizabeth, of all the Stabler children (with a slight exception of Eli) has been the least seen and heard of. Maureen has been front and center in the first season but not as heavily on screen as her sister Kathleen but that was in the first season as we are now in the 10th season and she comes on once in a blue moon so it will be nice to have her return, especially to get married and have Elliot experience the blues that his first born baby is growing up with her own life. As for Elizabeth, she really needs airtime! Not just having her old picture on a pedophile site.

Mary82 Posted Today, 02:43 PM
HGFM has not proved her point. The problem is that there are very different factors that go in to the reasoning for ratings. It can't be one or the other. Everyone watches SVU for various reason. What I like about the show, another person will like something different but...we are all watching the show, hence the ratings. Therefore the only conclusion is there is no right or wrong answer. You can't say, 'This is why the ratings are high' or 'This is why the ratings are low' because there is no way of knowing for sure. The only thing you can answer is 'This is why I like the show.'

The Nielson ratings are not just about the number of viewers for any given show. The company collects a lot of information on their sample viewers, including their age, gender, race, income level, etc. They have now added collecting information on who records what shows and when they watch them. They use that to figure who is watching which shows. Not for just a given night but over time. That is the more important information they sell to the networks and the advertisers. Once they know the pattern of viewing, surveys can be done to find out why the viewers changed what they watched.
The advertisers care about when their target audience is watching. They generally don't care what the programming is long as it brings in that target audience. Figuring out how to get that audience is the job of the networks and show producers. They do the research to figure that out.
Back when the announcement of the change in SVU was made, the reason given was that they wanted to attract a younger audience. That's where the advertisers want to spend their dollars. NBC and Wolf Films had to keep the advertisers happy to get their money. So the stories became more about personal involvement and less about crime solving. The original plan to take the stories realistic was abandoned. And Olivia was pushed into the forefront because she was the character who was most salable to the target group.
Many viewers who preferred the old L&O style writing and more of an ensemble cast stopped watching. But the show attracted more younger viewers. So TPTB have been trying to keep both set of viewers watching. Numbers are up overall since Screwed aired.
So TPTB do know who is watching and what is making them. It is their business to know.

DSR Posted Today, 03:14 PM
This is why I really suspect SVU rating have gone down. I have some shows I love to death, but I'll watch other shows before I'll watch a new episode of that show.
Especially with the economy. People work more hours, people need sleep or other things are going on. Especially since it's a week day. If I'm correct SVU used to be on, on Fridays, which is a tad bit more convientant, and then switched to tuesday. That may be another reason the rating's started dropping.

Actually SVU first aired on Monday nights at 9. It was crushed by Monday Night Football. And there was voiced concern about the subject matter being on at 9. So it was moved to Friday at 10 during the first season. It did OK but not great.
But then it started doing better. The first year kinks were straightened out. Advertising the show on Thursday "Must See TV" night helped. So did what it was competing against. There was a news program on ABC and Nash Bridges on CBS. SVU ended up as a Top 20 program.
So NBC decided to move it Tuesday night at 10 in 2003. They were up against Judging Amy and NYPD Blue. The ratings fell a bit but SVU still did well. The competition passed in the spring of 2005.
Starting in the fall of 2005 CBS tried a variety of dramas which all failed. But ABC threw Boston Legal into the competition. It didn't beat SVU in the ratings although it occasionally came close. By the end of Season 7, SVU had a significant drop in its numbers.
They went back up in Season 9 and are still in the same range now.

I know there are studies out there. In my opinion, it's still unreliable. You are talking about a very small group of people verses the millions of viewers out there. This is why I do not trust studies. How can 100 people speak for 10 million?

TPTB may have an idea as to why they 'think' the ratings are high but they cannot know for sure. The only possible way they could know for sure is if they knock on each and every door of the SVU viewers' door and take down their reasons why they watch the show. I am not denying that Olivia is a popular character or that Elliot's family may entice some people to watch. All I am saying is that when you state something as bold as 'SVU had high ratings because Olivia's drama was involved' you are pretty much talking for the entire viewer population and you can't do that. I hope that made sense.

Mary82 Posted Today, 01:39 AM
I know there are studies out there. In my opinion, it's still unreliable. You are talking about a very small group of people verses the millions of viewers out there. This is why I do not trust studies. How can 100 people speak for 10 million?

Why would you think only 100 people would be asked? That isn't even close to a valid statistical sampling. The professionals who collect and collate the data understand the mathematics and the science that statistics is based on. If you don't do it right and you can't support your results, no one will hire you. That's why the Nielsen Company is still in business.
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TPTB may have an idea as to why they 'think' the ratings are high but they cannot know for sure. The only possible way they could know for sure is if they knock on each and every door of the SVU viewers' door and take down their reasons why they watch the show. I am not denying that Olivia is a popular character or that Elliot's family may entice some people to watch. All I am saying is that when you state something as bold as 'SVU had high ratings because Olivia's drama was involved' you are pretty much talking for the entire viewer population and you can't do that. I hope that made sense.

You don't need to ask every single SVU viewer to tell you why they watch the show in order to get an accurate idea of why people watch. There is a mathematical formula that will calculated the minimum number you need to ask. Then you need to sample randomly from the whole group. And you need to structure the questions to minimize bias. If you follow the rules for properly taking a survey, you could make the statement that "more people watched SVU when Olivia's drama was involved because that's what they wanted to see" if that''s what the results of the survey indicated.
That's the nutshell version of how statistical sampling works.