I'm not here to complain, just my observation about a show a truly enjoy being less than what it was.

ADA Ron Carver was a large part of the show, that role has not been filled.

The dramatic music used at key points in earlier seasons, am I not hearing it this season.

There has not been a "wow" moment at the end of an episode for me yet this season. In fact, I think the stories have been less than stimulating.

In this "Depth" episode, there for the first time, was an influence of CSI.
Goren looking at microfiche and Emes looking at old records with music in the backround. In other words, filling time, the same way CSI does it.
I'd much rather watch Goren get into someone's head, see the Sherlock Holmes part of Goren, that's what makes Goren special.

I long for Nicole Wallace going head to head with Bobby Goren, THAT was brilliant and captivating television.
The "A" team of Goren and Emes have much more to them than what we have seen in this season so far.

Spence

watch it spence.. you'll be labeled fickle.
I have to say I agree with most of the points you made.. I don't know about Nicole... I've always been a hard core.. don't bring her back kinda person.. but at this point...i say try it.. something!

I did like Amends.. and Smile was pretty good.. I hope Depths isn't a sign of a trend..and I liked the second instalment of the Logan shift.. very much.. so.. there is always hope.. just hang in there.. I will be here til the bitter end.

*bug*

Indeed, some of the episodes have been good, not great. The earlier seasons, when the episode was over, I would think about what I just watched, how Goren reached his logical conclusions. "That was really good and thought provoking" I would think to myself.
Now, "is that it?" comes to mind when the episode is over.
Weak stories for the most part and not having an ADA to debate with Goren, no Ron Carver in the courtroom, Goren is not as dramatic as he has been.

Those of us who are old enough to remember the original Star Trek series will likely agree that season 3 was not the quality of seasons 1 and 2.
Why? NBC cut the budget to almost nothing.
I would hope that somebody at NBC would see the potential in the C.I. and that by cutting the budget doesn't increase the number of viewers and risks losing the loyal viewers that have tuned in every episode from day one.

I know the highest rated shows get the budget, just look at the cast of SVU and look at the cast of CI. Does NBC even promote CI on NBC??

Spence

Is that you in your pictures? It doesn't matter, because my husband and I totally support our troops. In fact, we are members of adopt a soldier. We send $100-150 of stuff (gum, sugar, creamer, candy etc.) every other month to our adopted soldiers. We always send Sam's quantities, so it can be shared. We actually have a shipper, we take our shipments to their store, that pays the shipping. Now, that is unbelievable. All we do is pay for the supplies and they pay for the packing and shipping. WOW!!!

If you have read any of my posts in the past few days, and I know you have, then you know I agree. However, I am not holding out any hope for Logan to pull it out.

I truly think the writers have gone off the deep end. Eames has always been Goren's biggest supporter (she stated it on the witness stand) and he did actually solve her husbands murder, so I don't get the whole conflict thing. Are we supposed to believe she doesn't know how it feels to loose someone you care about (his mother). The past season and a half have been a total mystery to me.

I don't know. Maybe I am too stupid to live and I need to be eliminated because I am diluting the gene pool but I don't understand how someone listed as the worlds greatest detective can fall so far from grace. Do they really think we are that stupid? Oops, that was actually the title of one of my questions. I guess they do. Most of us can tell when they play an epi out of sequence. GO FIGURE!

Oh well, I am new to this site and I love it. I also know someone will set me straight. I also welcome the feedback. It gives me food for thought and sometimes I don't see it how someone else does. It may not change my opinion but it is always good to get different points of view.

I love the fact that no one get really offended when others disagree with them. It is, after all, a forum. I love it!!

Please let me know if those pictures are of you and if you have any friends over seas that could use our gift. We send one every other month and rotate between the different names we have. We know there are lots of things that would make life a teeny bit better and we are pleased to help.

I am enabling email notification, so if you have addresses of collegues, let us know. We do all we can.

I'm the one who brought up "fickle", but certainly didn't mean anyone who takes the time to post here. If I had an interest in a show, then several episodes fell short of expectations, I would probably give up. I liked "Chuck" the first 2, then it got old. I'm not sure how long "Pushing Daisies" will keep me either. And I stuck with "The Nine" much longer than I should have.

For the general public (of which we are not), there are alot of choices out there. And if we want USA to still love LOCI, they need every viewer.

I agree that Amends, Smile and Loneyville were all good. Wow, some of us actually liked a Logan episode?

I've decided that depths served as a buffer this week so that we wouldn't be staiated for all the drama that is sure to come next week with courtship. I'm glad to see that a G/E epi is serving as a buffer rather than a Logan/? ep.

They beat out all TV on NBC at 10pm!

I'm slow...what?

I agree that you can see they are using a smaller budget. I suspect that they were hoping that "Depths" would disuade people from thinking that.. what with the shiny boats and beach scenes to look at.

My beef with that ep had more to do with a law related qualm... Why would they undo the effects of 3 generations of wills to make *that* one right? They should have just gone on reputation alone.

Also, if I'd been the writer, I wouldn't have had the head guy do the killings, but one of his assistants who wanted to shield his boss. That would have brought up the number of twists to what we expect. Not to meniton, the assistant could have felt that they weren't dealing with boss man honestly, and it would have had a revenge angle.

"Depths" felt short to me. Like they were missing a few minutes. Dunno why.

I really like this Season.

I just want more of season 6 in it, like...more background stories for our G&E partnership, and i love the emotional drama Bobby goes through.

But i am REALLLy happy with this season, and I loved all three G&E episodes.


I have no comment for the logan episodes cause i'm not the most objective person when i am watching them lol.

If I recall, they brought Chris Noth in because Vincent was exhausted with the long hours of shooting and having to be in almost every scene.

The Depths episode was to me, really reaching. Like the final scenes where the suspect was trying to take Goren's two-way radio. Why would he try that repeatedly? He was on a boat, there were other NYPD around.
Taking Goren's two-way radio would accomplish what? Stop the dive? Call a water taxi? The whole story was stretch and the ending was a tad silly.

NBC should have taken the gold coins and paid the writers and Dick Wolf some more money.

On one of the promos last night USA said that Criminal Intent has been the #1 rated cable show for the last 4 weeks!

I like that he was grabbing the radio because it showed his desperation.

Number 1 scripted show. WWE and some other sporting events overall beat it. But that is still huge.

Top 20 Cable Rankings October 22-28:



RANKPROGRAMSNETViewers Live+SD AA(000)1NFL REGULAR SEASON (COLTS/JAGUARS)ESPN12,4962WWE RAWUSA4,8403WWE RAWUSA4,7794SPONGEBOBNICK4,2805BACK AT THE BARNYARDNICK4,1036SPONGEBOBNICK4,0467COLL FTBALL-THUR NIGHT L (BOSTON COLLEGE/VIRGINIA TECH)ESPN4,0108HARRY POTTER & CHAMBERDSNY3,7289WIZARDS OF WAVERLY PLACEDSNY3,67010THE HILLSMTV3,66911SPONGEBOBNICK3,65512LAW & ORDER: CI (ORIG)USA3,61613SOUTH PARKCMDY3,59914HISTORY SUNDAYHIST3,52215SUITE LIFE OF ZACK & CODYDSNY3,50716SPONGEBOBNICK3,49717NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMADSNY3,46418HANNAH MONTANA(S)-10/28/2007DSNY3,44719FAIRLY ODD PARENTSNICK3,42520SPONGEBOBNICK3,391

That didn't come out right. Here is the link for ratings of cable TV shows.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings...v-show-ratings/

[quote name='rtech' date='Nov 2 2007, 11:19 PM' post='640664']
ADA Ron Carver was a large part of the show, that role has not been filled.

The dramatic music used at key points in earlier seasons, am I not hearing it this season.


I long for Nicole Wallace going head to head with Bobby Goren, THAT was brilliant and captivating television.
The "A" team of Goren and Emes have much more to them than what we have seen in this season so far.

I'm a long time lurker, but my first post. I had to delurk to respond to this.

While I do miss Carver, I can't agree that he was a large part of the show. There's no way he could have been when his screen time totaled about three minutes each episode. This show has been and will always be VD's baby.

I did like Nicole in Anti Thesis and APOI, but after awhile, her apperances got old. IMO, she should stay gone.

I'm not sure we're even seeing the same show. While I haven't been blown away by any of the episodes this season, I personally don't think any of them have been horrible. There were a few from last season that really stank (Rocket Man comes to mind), but as the writers are human beings, you can't expect Endgame every week either. The earlier seasons really emphasized the actual cases with the personal stuff being kept to a minimum. The show lost track of that at times last seasons to the point where it resembled a soap opera, which is not how the show was intended to be. This isn't to say that I don't like the background stuff, because I do. Just not to the point that it overtakes the show. According to the stuff I read, they'll be a balance between the personal and the professional stuff this season, which so far, I'm liking.

Ratings went down a little bit this week. Hopefully they'll come up next week, with all the drama and stuff.

Usa siad that it was the #1 original Drama on cable (something like that). We were ranke #12, where we've been in the top 10 for the last few weeks, with 3.6 million viewers, so I guess that some of the other shows may have inceased viewership, because we were in the top 10 with those numbers a few weeks ago.

I didn't mean to sound as though I don't like the show.
I understand that Courtney B. Vance wanted to start a family, other than that, I don't know what happened to the D.A. part of the show, I assuming it was a budget decision to cut that part out. I thought Craver was important because he kept Goren's feet on the ground and was not afraid to challenge him and their back and forth comments were often pointed.
I have found through people I talk with at work, that Goren is polarizing.es
Some really like the charactor as I, some can't stand him at all or just don't understand him at all.
The interviews on this website with Vincent as well as the ones with Chris Noth are quite interesting. VERY different people that have separate opinions about the show.


I do like that they took the theme from "Trial By Jury" and applied it to Criminal Intent. It adds a little spark.

Spence

rtech,

Couldn't agree with you more! I don't know if the folks switched writers or staff behind the scenes when NBC made the move, but something is not in sync anymore.

There is no longer a feel of connection between CI and the others. No more "ching ching" with dialogue at the bottom between scenes that is the trademark of L&O... that makes the places and the show real for viewers.

All of the other L&O's rely heavily on bringing the court room into the picture, to give some complete closure to the whole episode. I have read the Courtney Vance left on joint terms with no specific details as to who called that shot but all I can say is that USA BETTER GET AN ADA BACK if they hope to save this show. ADA Carver's disposition was a significant portion setting the mood for the show, no matter how brief.
The cast is simply too small with only three regular characters. For instance, why is the captain threatening with a subpeona for the boats (in the episode that aired 11/1/07) instead of an ADA??

Also, I notice the cast getting a little 'trashy' with the dress.... what is that all about for major case?

The connectivity needs to be there with the other L&O's... in the past there would be guest appearances across other series. Why not bring some in once a season since they are all supposed to be at one police plaza.

The Goren & Emes role has definately been served a disrespect this season which goes back to my original thought... Where on Earth are the writers???

I'll give it some more time, but the reruns are starting to look good.

Evergreen

I agree with the Carver thing. Can't a Black guy get any love on this show? I wanted to add that I think every episode CAN be endgame. But they just need to hire the RIGHT writers. Great writers, and stick to them. There is a great balance that can be achieved when better writers are hired.

I think that the writers, and actors, need to step-back and do as VDO does. Take what was given to you and 'run-with-it'. Maybe it is the weak actors, or even the ON STRIKE writers that is causing this serious lack in greatness that we know it is. ("and every week we tune in to see if maybe this time, they'll have me at the edge of my seat, or really have me thinking about the human condition") But sometimes we forget that even plot lines need these times of release. Where a routine is setup, what is expected, happens. Plus there's only so many ways a human can be killed, or hidden.

BTW: EVERGREEN is right on the monies. Where on Earth IS carmen Sandiego?
and: When reruns are better than NEW original episodes. You've got a problem.

I guess I must have lower expectations than other people. Look, this show is in its 7th season. Many other shows out there don't even last past their 1st season. In order to keep a long running show like this from getting stale, they have to make some changes, like bringing on new characters or whatever. Some changes will be good, some will be bad. As far as the changes that LOCI has gone through-adding Chris Noth was one, albeit that was necessitated by VDO's health. Then last season, they inexplicably added those music video like teasers-which I hated. I'm glad that they've disappeared this season. This season, they changed the theme song, which I don't like, either. However, these changes haven't been dire enough for me to quit watching the show.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as I'm entertained and the plot is engaging and believable, I'll watch. "Depths" wasn't the most outstanding episode, but I wasn't disastisfied with it. I do give the show points for some originality with the plot. How many other shows have done the pirate theme to death? The plot for "Seeds", in contrast, was done not only on SVU but in the early days of the mothership (yes, I've watched all three shows in the enterprise for a LONG time). That show was okay, but predictable.

For a show that's been on as long as CI, it still gives one a good hour of TV. The worst episodes of this show are better than the best episodes of most other series and that's a high compliment.

ITA

Also-Way to delurk, Lady.

Absolutely loverly. Well-written.
I only disagree with you on the theme song. I loved it for LOTBJ, and I love it here.

well we don't have a problem just yet.. we've had one clunker.. there is a clunker in every season.. so we'll just have to wait and see... one clunker and a few mediocre.
ladyv.. thanks for joining us. yes you are right.. the worst episode of CI is better than most of the best episodes of any drama on TV today.
but... I love the theme song.. so I disagree with you there.. and I hated the music video crap.. and unfortunately in Depths they resurrected it again...
I'm a long time watcher of all the LO's too.. more so .. the mother ship and CI.. the mother ship lost everything when they lost Logan.. they were already going for that downward spiral even before that.
CI has had brilliant seasons.. most thanks to D'Onofrio ( don't get me wrong.. I love Erbe and Noth).. but TV had never seen such a charasmatic actor before IMO.. I know I haven't...the writing was very good in the early seasons...and the episodes flowed and did keep us on the edge of our seats... well we still have D'Onofrio.. and he's still the most charasmatic actor on the screen. and that's why the poor written episodes havent hurt the ratings.. YET!.. but it just has to get better. he can't carry the show forever. just can't be done.

*bug*

You're being alittle too optomistic, and lenient.

Maybe they can cut costs by hiring some mexicans. You know, take away their broomsticks and catering tongs, and give them a chance at some lit.
/end sarcasm

naah.. I'm being hopeful.

*bug*

hope is light where there is none.

BUt when the shi_ hits the fan, everyone smells it. Ya' heard? Or do you need me to quote weeks of 20+ members on here that are calling DOOM prematurely?

The only hope i has, is that more detectives will get added, and that they will begin to include on-set advertisement. I'd drink more Sprite if Logan drinks it too.

Yes, I'm glad that someone has acknowledged this fact. Analysis of the past seasons are often only viewed in light of the great episodes from that season. I think that (thus far) season 7 will be remembered for Amends (great episode all around), Smile (because of the comment), Courtship (if it pans out the way that we think it will) and Untethered (if it isn't a let down). There will also be one or two more episodes that fit this bill.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you are right. I've deleted two CSI episodes half-way through and one LOSVU this season - they didn't hold my interest and the story lines were... bad. The Goren character is what got me hooked and watching religiously.

I posted this comment under another topic so bear with me. Let me say right up front that I am a total fan of this show. Whoever said that the worst LOCI is 1000% better than anything else on television was right. But I know now why Amends was first. VDO and KE got to act!!! In Depths, the busiest people were the guest stars and the film editor. Talk about scences that took just a few seconds....It was like watching a string of sound bites that they used for the promos. I watched it a second time and it seemed to me that there was nothing for VDO or KE to sink their actor teeth into. All they did was fill in the infomation so the audience could understand the story.
I also noticed that VDO seemed to almost flub his line(talking to the coin buyer, addressing Mr Sykes) and it was left in. Maybe he meant it to be that way but it made me wonder. Perhaps that is part of the economizing.
I am not complaining exactly-just verbalizing I guess. I will be a fan forever-as long a G&E are on the show.
Nila

thanks for following Rule #1.

QFT

You're darn right the worst epi of LOCI is better than the best of most other shows.

To this day I still wonder how they got a prolific and talented actor like VDO to agree to do TV.

Rene Balcer isn't around as much anymore is what I heard.

Yup we do tend to remember the season by it's landmark epis. Speaking of Season 6, we have Blind Spot, The War at Home, and Endgame. However there were like 20 more eps to that season. I for one really liked Weeping Willow, Privledge, Brother's Keeper, Maltese Cross, 30, Renewal, & Masquerade.

I don't know what the "landmark" eps were for Season 3, but Fico De Capo, D.A.W, Pas De Deux, Sound Bodies, Undaunted Mettle, Stray and A Murderer Among Us were top notch epis.

As long as I'm not bored enough to overlook the strong efforts put out by the actors, I'm not switching channels.