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Jryan

May 8 2008, 06:14 PM

QUOTE (cifan70 @ May 7 2008, 08:08 PM)

I think that is what I am looking at and I hope it works. I have heard very good things about it.

Don't worry about putting me down. I have heard it all. I must be the very small percentage that doesn't have the above mentioned happen. I have nothing wrong with me. I have smoked since I was 17 so that would be 20 years. Geez, had to think. The only medication I take is the medicine for my Crohns that was diagnosed 9 years ago and my birth control to regulate my cycle. Nothing wrong with my kids either, other than the normal kid things. I also smoked while pregnant with both of them. My son is ADHD and my daughter is going thru her teenage years. My hubby is the one on all the meds due to his weight. His weight causes his high blood pressure and his other problems he has. We don't need withold sex from each other because ever since he got snipped to fix himself, it hasn't worked so we are both deprived in that area. Hubby quit smoking 9 years ago right after our son was born, cold turkey even, and that's when he doubled his weight and hasn't been able to lose it. This is part of the reason I am afraid to quit. Weight gain. All I do is sit in front of a computer at work and here at home. I don't live in the safest neighborhood to go walking in and gas is waay to expensive to go driving anywhere just to walk for exercise so I don't know what to do.

well good, but your only 37 the other heart problems could show up later, but like you said I am not telling you what you haven't been told before, and It's your life, I am just at the end of my rope with my husband. My husband is 52, and has smoked since he was 20, he has quit before, I started when I was 14, but quit when I got pregnant for my first child at 19 but started again after he was born, this was before I was in nursing school and we were in both low paying jobs, supporting two smokers, when even 25 yrs ago was expensive, my husband was working a night time part time job to make ends meet, I told him if we would just quit smoking, he could quit the second job, so we both did, but when his dad had his first heart attack, he started up again, since he never smokes infront of me and hides it from me, I can only tell when I catch him, or when he puts cigs on the debit card, since I handle all bills, and when I can smell it on him, he always chews gum or eats mints to cover his breath. But I told him, I am tired of preaching, but he must do what he has to do, and I must do what I have to do. He is killing himself, but its his life, but by killing himself, he is leaving us unprotected, and I have to protect myself and my daughter.

So, do I just stop caring, and stop talking about it? He hates it when I bring it up. But still stick to my guns.

Or do I bring it up occassionaly, Let him know I still worry and care.?

hotaru

May 8 2008, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 8 2008, 07:14 PM)

well good, but your only 37 the other heart problems could show up later, but like you said I am not telling you what you haven't been told before, and It's your life, I am just at the end of my rope with my husband. My husband is 52, and has smoked since he was 20, he has quit before, I started when I was 14, but quit when I got pregnant for my first child at 19 but started again after he was born, this was before I was in nursing school and we were in both low paying jobs, supporting two smokers, when even 25 yrs ago was expensive, my husband was working a night time part time job to make ends meet, I told him if we would just quit smoking, he could quit the second job, so we both did, but when his dad had his first heart attack, he started up again, since he never smokes infront of me and hides it from me, I can only tell when I catch him, or when he puts cigs on the debit card, since I handle all bills, and when I can smell it on him, he always chews gum or eats mints to cover his breath. But I told him, I am tired of preaching, but he must do what he has to do, and I must do what I have to do. He is killing himself, but its his life, but by killing himself, he is leaving us unprotected, and I have to protect myself and my daughter.

So, do I just stop caring, and stop talking about it? He hates it when I bring it up. But still stick to my guns.

Or do I bring it up occassionaly, Let him know I still worry and care.?

i think you should stick to your guns and keep at it. smoking is an awful habit and you are only thinking of him, his health, and you family. like you mentioned, smoking can be expensive. i dont know how much it cost to buy cigs in other places, but in ohio, they cost an arm and a leg. dont give up ^__~

gorens_veal

May 8 2008, 06:29 PM

I receivced the following in an e-mail today. Some of you younger gals won't understand, but for others around my age (40+), it is hysterical. I spent the whole day laughing to myself at my desk.

ISN'T
THIS THE TRUTH??????

you may need to stop at the women's restroom . . . be prepared!

When you have to visit a public bathroom, you usually find a line of
women, so you smile politely and take your place. Once it's your turn,
you check for feet under the stall doors. Every stall is occupied.

Finally, a door opens and you dash in, nearly knocking down the woman
leaving the stall.

You get in to find the door won't latch. It doesn't matter, the wait has
been so long you are about to wet your pants! The dispenser for the
modern "seat covers" (invented by someone's Mom, no doubt) is handy, but
empty. You would hang your purse on the door hook, if there was one, but
there isn't - so you carefully, but quickly drape it around your neck,
(Mom would turn over in her grave if you put it on theFLOOR!), yank down
your pants, and assume " The Stance."

In this position your aging, toneless thigh muscles begin to shake.
You'd
love to sit down, but you certainly hadn't taken time to wipe the seat
or lay toilet
paper on it, so you hold "The Stance."

To take your mind off your trembling thighs, you reach for what you
discover to be the empty toilet paper dispenser. In your mind, you can
hear
your mother's voice saying, "Honey, if you had tried to clean the seat,
you would haveKNOWNthere was no toilet
paper!" Your thighs shake more.

You remember the tiny tissue that you blew your nose on yesterday - the
one that's still in your purse. (Oh yeah, the purse around your neck,
that now,
you have to hold up trying not to strangle yourself at the same time).
That
would have to do. You crumple it in the puffiest way possible. It's
still
smaller than your thumbnail

Someone pushes your door open because the latch doesn't work. The door
hits your purse, which is hanging around your neck in front of your
chest, and
you and your purse topple backward against the tank of the toilet.
"Occupied!" you scream, as you reach for the door, dropping your
precious, tiny, crumpled tissue in a puddle on the floor, lose your
footing
altogether, and slide down directly onto theTOILET SEAT. It is wet of
course.
You bolt up, knowing all too well that it's too late. Your bare bottom
has
made contact with every imaginable germ and life form on the uncovered
seat
because YOU never laid down toilet paper - not that there was any, even
if you
had taken time to try. You know that your mother would be utterly
appalled if
she knew, because, you're certain her bare bottom never touched a public
toilet
seat because, frankly, dear, "You just don'tKNOWwhat kind of diseases
you could get."

By this time, the automatic sensor on the back of the toilet is so
confused that it flushes, propelling a stream of water like a fire hose
against
the inside of the bowl that sprays a fine mist of water that covers your
butt
and runs down your legs and into your shoes. The flush somehow sucks
everything
down with such force that you grab onto the empty toilet paper dispenser
for
fear of being dragged in too.

At this point, you give up. You're soaked by the spewing water and the
wet toilet seat. You're exhausted. You try to wipe with a gum wrapper
you found
in your pocket and then slink out inconspicuously to the sinks.

You can't figure out how to operate the faucets with the automatic
sensors, so you wipe your hands with spit and a dry paper towel and walk
past
the line of women still waiting.

You are no longer able to smile politely to them. A kind soul at the
very
end of the line points out a piece of toilet paper trailing from your
shoe.
(Where was that when youNEEDEDit??) You yank the paper from
your shoe, plunk it in the woman's hand and tell her warmly, "Here, you
just might need this."

As you exit, you spot your hubby, who has long since entered, used, and
left the men's restroom. Annoyed,
he asks, "What took you so long, and why is your purse hanging around
your
neck?"

This is dedicated to women everywhere who deal with a public restrooms
(rest??? you've GOT to be kidding!!). It finally explains to the men
what
really does take us so long. It also answers their other commonly asked
questions about why women go to the restroom in pairs. It's so the other
gal
can hold the door, hang onto your purse and hand you Kleenex under the
door!

This HAD to be written by a woman! No one else could describe it so
accurately!

TennesseCIFAn

May 8 2008, 06:45 PM

Well, the other day I told you guys about the RL drama with my son's Cub Scout den. Well, we finally decieded on what to do:

My husband called district and complained. He talked to the District Executive for about an hour. While things may not change, he is aware of the situation, and will be talking to the people who thinks it's ok to cuss at the other leaders.

By this point, however, I had to ask myself, do I really want my son and myself involved in a group where the leader has no control over her temper? Not really.

So, instead of switching Packs or dropping out altogether, I working with my church to create a new Cub Scout Pack.

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

But there are some really good reasons for starting a new Pack. One is that our church has LOTS of kids, and this program can really help them. Two, is that a new elementary school will be opening up next fall right across the street from the church. So, a Cub Scout pack will allow the church to help make a difference in the lives of those children as well. And since it's a new school, this window of opportunity just doesn't come along very often. So, I'm now working with everyone to get this Pack started and off the ground.

::big gulp::

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

cluck73

May 8 2008, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 8 2008, 06:57 PM)

I am a catholic.

See when It comes to politics, really I am Homer Simpson, I don't understand all this I am a liberal, I am a conservative, i am a Mumbo jumbo, . What the hell does that mean? I just know the Republicans have screwed up the last few years, time for new blood, man. We have two choices, Democrat - Republican, well the Bushes Sr. and Jr. were the Republicans, well sorry dudes, you had your turn, you got us in the biggest mess that probably even the Democrats can't get us out of, but hey, lets give them a try and Thats my platform.

WOW! I could say a lot to respond to that, but I like you and don't want to turn this in to a political forum, so I'll let it go...

ciaddict

May 8 2008, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (TennesseeCIFan @ May 8 2008, 04:45 PM)

Well, the other day I told you guys about the RL drama with my son's Cub Scout den. Well, we finally decieded on what to do:

My husband called district and complained. He talked to the District Executive for about an hour. While things may not change, he is aware of the situation, and will be talking to the people who thinks it's ok to cuss at the other leaders.

By this point, however, I had to ask myself, do I really want my son and myself involved in a group where the leader has no control over her temper? Not really.

So, instead of switching Packs or dropping out altogether, I working with my church to create a new Cub Scout Pack.

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

But there are some really good reasons for starting a new Pack. One is that our church has LOTS of kids, and this program can really help them. Two, is that a new elementary school will be opening up next fall right across the street from the church. So, a Cub Scout pack will allow the church to help make a difference in the lives of those children as well. And since it's a new school, this window of opportunity just doesn't come along very often. So, I'm now working with everyone to get this Pack started and off the ground.

::big gulp::

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

You are taking on a lot, TCIF, but I think this is an excellent idea. Hopefully there will be lots of help from parents and church members.

janpop4

May 8 2008, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 8 2008, 06:14 PM)

well good, but your only 37 the other heart problems could show up later, but like you said I am not telling you what you haven't been told before, and It's your life, I am just at the end of my rope with my husband. My husband is 52, and has smoked since he was 20, he has quit before, I started when I was 14, but quit when I got pregnant for my first child at 19 but started again after he was born, this was before I was in nursing school and we were in both low paying jobs, supporting two smokers, when even 25 yrs ago was expensive, my husband was working a night time part time job to make ends meet, I told him if we would just quit smoking, he could quit the second job, so we both did, but when his dad had his first heart attack, he started up again, since he never smokes infront of me and hides it from me, I can only tell when I catch him, or when he puts cigs on the debit card, since I handle all bills, and when I can smell it on him, he always chews gum or eats mints to cover his breath. But I told him, I am tired of preaching, but he must do what he has to do, and I must do what I have to do. He is killing himself, but its his life, but by killing himself, he is leaving us unprotected, and I have to protect myself and my daughter.

So, do I just stop caring, and stop talking about it? He hates it when I bring it up. But still stick to my guns.

Or do I bring it up occassionaly, Let him know I still worry and care.?

I think you should definitely stick to your guns and hope he quits. I am going to get my script tomorrow and follow doctors orders on it and hope it works. I have the support of my family on this and the support of all you guys so hopefully that is enough to help me quit. I have tried to quit 4 times before without actually quitting. Have tried everything over the counter and nothing worked. We'll try a prescription this time and see what happens. It really needs to be done in the day and age we live in.

QUOTE (TennesseeCIFan @ May 8 2008, 06:45 PM)

Well, the other day I told you guys about the RL drama with my son's Cub Scout den. Well, we finally decieded on what to do:

My husband called district and complained. He talked to the District Executive for about an hour. While things may not change, he is aware of the situation, and will be talking to the people who thinks it's ok to cuss at the other leaders.

By this point, however, I had to ask myself, do I really want my son and myself involved in a group where the leader has no control over her temper? Not really.

So, instead of switching Packs or dropping out altogether, I working with my church to create a new Cub Scout Pack.

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

But there are some really good reasons for starting a new Pack. One is that our church has LOTS of kids, and this program can really help them. Two, is that a new elementary school will be opening up next fall right across the street from the church. So, a Cub Scout pack will allow the church to help make a difference in the lives of those children as well. And since it's a new school, this window of opportunity just doesn't come along very often. So, I'm now working with everyone to get this Pack started and off the ground.

::big gulp::

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

I totally agree with you. A leader that cannot hold his temper is not good at leading children. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope it goes well. Let us know how it goes.

KimberlyTaylor

May 8 2008, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (JanxAngel @ May 8 2008, 12:13 PM)

The bees are in the tree again today.

I swear that tree grew more leaves overnight too. This is one of few reasons I really like it here. Life is literally bursting from everywhere. Dave Barry once said that if you leave a toaster on the lawn overnight down here, it will come alive and start preying on smaller appliances.

After a nice rain, the next morning you'll find whole flocks of Ibises prowling the grass for food.
Here's a picture of one, but the flocks are anywhere from 4 to 40 birds in size wandering over the lawns.

I just had a very visual image of a shiny chrome toaster, silently slinking through the as-yet unmown grass, stalking a misplaced childs hotwheels car...

And again, keep the bees outside...I mowed tonight, changed my birdfeeders to the "summer" spots and put out my hummingbird feeders...came in the house, took a showerand as I walked by the sliding door to get my pj's - there was already a hummingbird feeding! Its cold here at night still, so I hope it will be okay.

QUOTE (ciaddict @ May 8 2008, 01:39 PM)

OK, I wasn't going to share this because I know I tell long stories. If you want to make a short story long, just have me tell it.

But it is so rare that one of my plans works out so perfectly that I just can't resist.

My daughter will be 16 next month and puberty has hit her HARD! And it doesn't help that her mother is the most ignorant, clueless person in the whole world. Anyway, almost 2 years ago I asked a coworker (former coworker now, thank goodness) who has horses about riding lessons for my daughter. She said she would give her lessons and my daughter could work to pay for them. Great deal. And at first it was great. My daughter (not to brag) is a natural and it is really a beautiful sight to see her on a horse. BUT this coworker--I'll call her R--and my daughter became very close very fast.
I just deleted a bunch because it was a VERY long story. So about a year ago, things got out of hand when R didn't bring my daughter home when she was supposed to, she would take her to her house without permission, and then she called the school to excuse an absence. So I decided my daughter couldn't go out there anymore. When I told R, things got ugly. Her husband and son-in-law even threatened my son-in-law when we went to get my daughter's things that she had left there. And R refused to give me the saddle that I bought for my daughter for Christmas. But finally it was over, I thought (silly me).
I knew my daughter was talking to her on the phone, because R supposedly "gave" my daughter one of the horses and my daughter just had to keep track of her, especially since R bred her and she was ready to foal anytime. I have suspected for a while that my daughter was sneaking out there, but didn't have any proof. The horse foaled last week and on Tuesday I found a letter my daughter wrote to R's son that confirmed to me that she had been out there. I thought she might go out there that day after school. One of my coworker's just happens to have binoculars, so she and her boyfriend drove me out there after work and we spied on the ranch. Sure enough, there was my daughter! We went to the cross street so they wouldn't see us and called the Sheriff's dept. and a deputy came out. And I have to throw in that this deputy is BIG--think VDO big, and bald, and was wearing cool sunglasses. I think I'm in love, but he's about 15 years too young and probably married.
While I was standing in the road, talking to the deputy, R and my daughter drove up to the intersection--I guess she was taking her home. My daughter got out and came over to where I was, looking at me totally innocently like "What are you doing?" The deputy went over to talk to R and told her that she is contributing to the delinquency of a minor and that if they get another call from me about any inappropriate contact, she will be arrested. I was really not expecting that! R left and when the deputy told me what he had said to her, my daughter got mad and stomped off down the road. He just looked at her, then at me, and said, "Want me to take her?" He said he would meet us back where I had left my truck, and it took a while--she evidently gave him some attitude. But he said he didn't have to "put" her in the car, he talked her into getting in. Then when she got out of his car, he saw that she had a pack of cigarettes in her backpack (her friend's, she said--I actually believe this story), and made her give them to him--then threw them away. Was she MAD!
Of course that night was a lot of fun as she raged about how I hate her and I'm taking away the only thing that means anything to her and I had no right to read her private mail and as soon as she turns 16 she is getting emancipated (I told her "Good luck with that"). I didn't yell, I didn't argue, I just let her go until she ran out of steam. Then last night when I got home, she had done all her chores and wanted to go to a youth group meeting (she knows I'm a sucker for church things).
Teenagers are so FUN! And yes, this was a long story--sorry.

Well it sounds like R is out of line...and you wound like a great mom to me, so she is totally stepping out of her place...but as for the daughter being attached to the horse, I can see that very well. When I was at my mom's visiting, they had a dog that I loved. It was one of those things I guess. I couldnt talk to anyone, not anyone that I thought was safe to talk to or anyone who would understand...so I spent hours in the garage with that dog. It let me talk, cry into it fur and never said a discouraging word or judged me in any way. I got the love and comfort that I needed, that I didnt think I could get anywhere else...so to hear about your girl getting hooked on the animal is completely understood to me(especially a girl and a horse). I just hope she soon realizes that she has a great mom and how much you care about her and want to keep her safe. Hang in there...they grow up fast and this will be over before you know it.

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 8 2008, 04:32 PM)

o.o

ack! i thought i was done with my paper writing days for a while! ^__^() lol! but i could start my thesis on the proud culture of non shipping ^__~

Now that is a great thesis idea!!!

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 8 2008, 04:40 PM)

that whole story sounded like a tv drama! but teenagers are hard work and theatrical. i hope things work out.

also, its very easy for anyone to get attached to animals. its like having another member of the family. just last week my dog got hit by a car. i was still in school and my mom called me crying. luckly the dog is fine. no broken bones or anything, just road rash. but people can get very attached to animals and its hard to see them in a difficult situation.

ITA

QUOTE (HelloBobby @ May 8 2008, 07:29 PM)

I receivced the following in an e-mail today. Some of you younger gals won't understand, but for others around my age (40+), it is hysterical. I spent the whole day laughing to myself at my desk.

ISN'T
THIS THE TRUTH??????

you may need to stop at the women's restroom . . . be prepared!

When you have to visit a public bathroom, you usually find a line of
women, so you smile politely and take your place. Once it's your turn,
you check for feet under the stall doors. Every stall is occupied.

Finally, a door opens and you dash in, nearly knocking down the woman
leaving the stall.

You get in to find the door won't latch. It doesn't matter, the wait has
been so long you are about to wet your pants! The dispenser for the
modern "seat covers" (invented by someone's Mom, no doubt) is handy, but
empty. You would hang your purse on the door hook, if there was one, but
there isn't - so you carefully, but quickly drape it around your neck,
(Mom would turn over in her grave if you put it on theFLOOR!), yank down
your pants, and assume " The Stance."

In this position your aging, toneless thigh muscles begin to shake.
You'd
love to sit down, but you certainly hadn't taken time to wipe the seat
or lay toilet
paper on it, so you hold "The Stance."

To take your mind off your trembling thighs, you reach for what you
discover to be the empty toilet paper dispenser. In your mind, you can
hear
your mother's voice saying, "Honey, if you had tried to clean the seat,
you would haveKNOWNthere was no toilet
paper!" Your thighs shake more.

You remember the tiny tissue that you blew your nose on yesterday - the
one that's still in your purse. (Oh yeah, the purse around your neck,
that now,
you have to hold up trying not to strangle yourself at the same time).
That
would have to do. You crumple it in the puffiest way possible. It's
still
smaller than your thumbnail

Someone pushes your door open because the latch doesn't work. The door
hits your purse, which is hanging around your neck in front of your
chest, and
you and your purse topple backward against the tank of the toilet.
"Occupied!" you scream, as you reach for the door, dropping your
precious, tiny, crumpled tissue in a puddle on the floor, lose your
footing
altogether, and slide down directly onto theTOILET SEAT. It is wet of
course.
You bolt up, knowing all too well that it's too late. Your bare bottom
has
made contact with every imaginable germ and life form on the uncovered
seat
because YOU never laid down toilet paper - not that there was any, even
if you
had taken time to try. You know that your mother would be utterly
appalled if
she knew, because, you're certain her bare bottom never touched a public
toilet
seat because, frankly, dear, "You just don'tKNOWwhat kind of diseases
you could get."

By this time, the automatic sensor on the back of the toilet is so
confused that it flushes, propelling a stream of water like a fire hose
against
the inside of the bowl that sprays a fine mist of water that covers your
butt
and runs down your legs and into your shoes. The flush somehow sucks
everything
down with such force that you grab onto the empty toilet paper dispenser
for
fear of being dragged in too.

At this point, you give up. You're soaked by the spewing water and the
wet toilet seat. You're exhausted. You try to wipe with a gum wrapper
you found
in your pocket and then slink out inconspicuously to the sinks.

You can't figure out how to operate the faucets with the automatic
sensors, so you wipe your hands with spit and a dry paper towel and walk
past
the line of women still waiting.

You are no longer able to smile politely to them. A kind soul at the
very
end of the line points out a piece of toilet paper trailing from your
shoe.
(Where was that when youNEEDEDit??) You yank the paper from
your shoe, plunk it in the woman's hand and tell her warmly, "Here, you
just might need this."

As you exit, you spot your hubby, who has long since entered, used, and
left the men's restroom. Annoyed,
he asks, "What took you so long, and why is your purse hanging around
your
neck?"

This is dedicated to women everywhere who deal with a public restrooms
(rest??? you've GOT to be kidding!!). It finally explains to the men
what
really does take us so long. It also answers their other commonly asked
questions about why women go to the restroom in pairs. It's so the other
gal
can hold the door, hang onto your purse and hand you Kleenex under the
door!

This HAD to be written by a woman! No one else could describe it so
accurately!

Hahhah...and worse yet...airport ladies rooms...omg, its like a medievil torture chamber!

tashafallen

May 8 2008, 08:33 PM

im very proud of myself ive been quiting smokeing for 4 days nows ...yay!!!!!!!!!!!!

cluck73

May 8 2008, 08:38 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 09:33 PM)

im very proud of myself ive been quiting smokeing for 4 days nows ...yay!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep it up, sister! you can do it!

spookycc

May 8 2008, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 7 2008, 09:33 PM)

*wavies* hello everyone! im alive hehe ^__^. school is finally over, and now i have time to come and hang out with you all. ive missed being on the forum, but anyways....did i miss anything? o.O

Hi hotaru! Long time no see!

QUOTE (flashymom @ May 8 2008, 02:35 PM)

I'm worse than just an elephant, I'm a TEXAS REPUBLICAN!!!!!!

I LOVE the military, firmly believe we need to stop the radical, violent Muslim terrorists, and all terrorists, who are threatening our peaceful world and encroaching upon our borders.

I believe we need to STOP illegal immigration before there is nothing left for those of us who built it, earned it, stockpiled it and protected it in the first place.

I believe English should be the OFFICIAL LANGUAGE of our country, men should stand when women come in the room, and ALL hats should be removed when the flag passes by and the National Anthem is played.

I cringe and get angry when I hear people say that "GOD", His likeness, His image and His name should be removed from our money, our Pledge, our Courthouses, our schools, our Constitution, our country.

I believe that we can make America great again, but ONLY if people get off their duffs and WORK, and work hard.

I do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to provide food, clothing, shelter, cars, TVs and health care for our residents. If you don't have those things, get up, get a job, and get those things for yourself.

I do not believe this country can continue to be the great nation of freedom, with liberty and justice for all, if our citizens, residents and inhabitants sit around waiting for the government to come and do it for them. That's not how or why this nation was founded; that was NEVER the intent of the Founding Fathers; and if things don't change SOON, this nation will founder, falter, and fail, forever.

Word, flashymom!

QUOTE (cluck73 @ May 8 2008, 08:07 PM)

WOW! I could say a lot to respond to that, but I like you and don't want to turn this in to a political forum, so I'll let it go...

I hear that, too.

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 09:33 PM)

im very proud of myself ive been quiting smokeing for 4 days nows ...yay!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're doin' great, tasha! Keep it up, girl!

tashafallen

May 8 2008, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (spookycc @ May 8 2008, 09:50 PM)

You're doin' great, tasha! Keep it up, girl!

thanks it hard for me i have been smokeing since i was 12 ..

gorens_veal

May 8 2008, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (TennesseeCIFan @ May 8 2008, 06:45 PM)

So, instead of switching Packs or dropping out altogether, I working with my church to create a new Cub Scout Pack.

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

But there are some really good reasons for starting a new Pack. One is that our church has LOTS of kids, and this program can really help them. Two, is that a new elementary school will be opening up next fall right across the street from the church. So, a Cub Scout pack will allow the church to help make a difference in the lives of those children as well. And since it's a new school, this window of opportunity just doesn't come along very often. So, I'm now working with everyone to get this Pack started and off the ground.

A new Den? You are brave! You have great reasoning and justification for doing it with the new school and all.

Just be careful when recruiting new members. You don't want to be accused of "cherry picking" kids from the old den. However, if other parents feel like you do, they might be more than willing to switch and help out. Plus with the new group and all the excitement that brings, you should have no problem getting parent volunteers.

Just keep saying to yourself, my reasoning for everything "At the time it was the right thing to do".

Good luck!

KimberlyTaylor

May 8 2008, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 09:33 PM)

im very proud of myself ive been quiting smokeing for 4 days nows ...yay!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOT!!!!!!! YOU GO GIRL!!

flashymom

May 8 2008, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (TennesseeCIFan @ May 8 2008, 06:45 PM)

Well, the other day I told you guys about the RL drama with my son's Cub Scout den. Well, we finally decieded on what to do:

My husband called district and complained. He talked to the District Executive for about an hour. While things may not change, he is aware of the situation, and will be talking to the people who thinks it's ok to cuss at the other leaders.

By this point, however, I had to ask myself, do I really want my son and myself involved in a group where the leader has no control over her temper? Not really.

So, instead of switching Packs or dropping out altogether, I working with my church to create a new Cub Scout Pack.

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

But there are some really good reasons for starting a new Pack. One is that our church has LOTS of kids, and this program can really help them. Two, is that a new elementary school will be opening up next fall right across the street from the church. So, a Cub Scout pack will allow the church to help make a difference in the lives of those children as well. And since it's a new school, this window of opportunity just doesn't come along very often. So, I'm now working with everyone to get this Pack started and off the ground.

::big gulp::

Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

You are NOT CRAZY!!!!! You are doing a great thing!!!! We are a Boy Scout family. Hubby has been in Scouting for 32 years (He's 42), and I have been in Scouting for 12. My Dad is a retired Scoutmaster, my brother is an Eagle Scout; Father-in-law is Eagle Scout, retired Asst. SM; all 3 brothers-in-law are Eagle Scouts, as is hubby. Scouting is WONDERFUL!!!!

Now, for the best advice I can give you: GO GET TRAINED!!!!!! Get yourself and your hubby over to the Council Office and take every training course you need -- New Leader Training, Cub Master Training, Den Leader Training, and on, and on, and on. Attend every leader Roundtable meeting held by your District. Make sure every adult who signs on with your Pack gets trained as well.

If you need someone to talk to, PM me for my personal email addy and phone numbers.....good luck! You are in for the most awesome experience of your life!

hotaru

May 8 2008, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 09:55 PM)

thanks it hard for me i have been smokeing since i was 12 ..

its not easy, but you can do it! ^__~

why did you start smoking so young?

thanks spook! its good to be back heheh

hullbound

May 8 2008, 09:43 PM

YAY TASHA!!!!!!

One day at a time baby! Should I ask if Sammy has said if your kisses taste better?

tashafallen

May 8 2008, 09:48 PM

QUOTE (spookycc @ May 8 2008, 09:50 PM)

You're doin' great, tasha! Keep it up, girl!

hey spook look at the neat new button i made!

i wear it on my purse proudly!

QUOTE (KimberlyT @ May 8 2008, 10:09 PM)

WOOT!!!!!!! YOU GO GIRL!!

thanks

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 8 2008, 10:19 PM)

its not easy, but you can do it! ^__~

why did you start smoking so young?

thanks spook! its good to be back heheh

i stayed with my cousin becos both my parents were going through crazy times in their lives and she smoked and i just started smoke she apologizes all the time now cos she got me started but she was only 18 soo she thought it was cool to give her little cuz a cig

QUOTE (hullbound @ May 8 2008, 10:43 PM)

YAY TASHA!!!!!!

One day at a time baby! Should I ask if Sammy has said if your kisses taste better?

sammy is VERY happy im quiting .. he tells everyone we see .. he even had to tell his mom and dad tonight when we visited.

TennesseCIFAn

May 8 2008, 09:58 PM

QUOTE (flashymom @ May 8 2008, 09:14 PM)

You are NOT CRAZY!!!!! You are doing a great thing!!!! We are a Boy Scout family. Hubby has been in Scouting for 32 years (He's 42), and I have been in Scouting for 12. My Dad is a retired Scoutmaster, my brother is an Eagle Scout; Father-in-law is Eagle Scout, retired Asst. SM; all 3 brothers-in-law are Eagle Scouts, as is hubby. Scouting is WONDERFUL!!!!

Now, for the best advice I can give you: GO GET TRAINED!!!!!! Get yourself and your hubby over to the Council Office and take every training course you need -- New Leader Training, Cub Master Training, Den Leader Training, and on, and on, and on. Attend every leader Roundtable meeting held by your District. Make sure every adult who signs on with your Pack gets trained as well.

If you need someone to talk to, PM me for my personal email addy and phone numbers.....good luck! You are in for the most awesome experience of your life!

Actually, believe it or not, I've been trained for every Cub position except Tiger Cub---All I need for this coming fall will be my Youth Protection (our council requires watching that old video every 2 years and the internet course on the alt years) Soooo, I'm technically trained for Committee Chair. Hubby's trained for Committee, Cub Master and Webleos.

The person in charge of our church's childrens ministries is really excited. I am too. My stomach had been in knots for days when all this broke on Sunday, it's just now getting to the point where it's unknotting itself.

Now all I have to do is write my resignation letter to the current pack---and be nice about! Drama, why must you follow me??

hotaru

May 8 2008, 10:23 PM

here is something interesting that happened in my city today.

today in all of the cleveland papa john pizza stores, they were selling a large one topping pizza for 23 cents. the average wait for get one of these pizzas was 3 hours!!! my mom and i went to the nearest papa johns to get a pizza, but the wait was around 2 blocks deep! i was not going to wait in long line for some pizza.

im kinda fiffy on the all the details as to why they were selling pizzas for 23 cents cuz im not a sports fan but this is what my mom told me: the cleveland basketball team is doing well i guess, and they played a game in boston. one of the boston basketball players called lebron james, one of the cleveland players a cry baby. and on top of that, a papa johns in boston was making shirts saying lebron is a cry baby. i guess it became a big deal enough for all the papa johns in cleveland to sell pizzas for 23 cents cuz the 23 is labron james number. everyone was talking about this and it was even mentioned on the news. crazy...

LOCIFan2

May 8 2008, 11:51 PM

QUOTE (KimberlyT @ May 8 2008, 06:29 PM)

Re: Ladies Restroom

Hahhah...and worse yet...airport ladies rooms...omg, its like a medievil torture chamber!

Hahaha. lol. Know the situation well.

I have long contended that Murphy's Law(s) states:

"No Public Ladies Room can have both Toilet Tissue and Paper Towels at the same time!"

Corrolary (sp?) #1:

"If by chance, a Ladies Room has both Toilet Tissue and Paper Towels in adequate supply at the same time; then, it must be out of soap and/or one or more Toilets must be overflowing or out-of-service."

Corrolary (sp?) #2:

"The locks on the stalls can't all function properly at once; though it is perfectly natural for "None" of them to operate."

unsteady

May 8 2008, 11:56 PM

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 8 2008, 10:23 PM)

here is something interesting that happened in my city today.

today in all of the cleveland papa john pizza stores, they were selling a large one topping pizza for 23 cents. the average wait for get one of these pizzas was 3 hours!!! my mom and i went to the nearest papa johns to get a pizza, but the wait was around 2 blocks deep! i was not going to wait in long line for some pizza.

im kinda fiffy on the all the details as to why they were selling pizzas for 23 cents cuz im not a sports fan but this is what my mom told me: the cleveland basketball team is doing well i guess, and they played a game in boston. one of the boston basketball players called lebron james, one of the cleveland players a cry baby. and on top of that, a papa johns in boston was making shirts saying lebron is a cry baby. i guess it became a big deal enough for all the papa johns in cleveland to sell pizzas for 23 cents cuz the 23 is labron james number. everyone was talking about this and it was even mentioned on the news. crazy...

Jeez, 3 hours for Papa John's? Why bother?

jcsavestheday

May 9 2008, 12:01 AM

QUOTE (unsteady @ May 8 2008, 11:56 PM)

Jeez, 3 hours for Papa John's? Why bother?

Prolly so they could say that they got a pizza for 23 cents. I wouldnt' wait that long for pappa johns. Maybe for Pizza Hut, though.

Parcher

May 9 2008, 04:49 AM

QUOTE (jcsavestheday @ May 9 2008, 12:01 AM)

Prolly so they could say that they got a pizza for 23 cents. I wouldnt' wait that long for pappa johns. Maybe for Pizza Hut, though.

Round Table Pizza is the best I've ever tasted. Must be the spices they use.

TennesseCIFAn

May 9 2008, 07:16 AM

QUOTE (jcsavestheday @ May 9 2008, 12:01 AM)

Prolly so they could say that they got a pizza for 23 cents. I wouldnt' wait that long for pappa johns. Maybe for Pizza Hut, though.

I wouldn't wait for either, since the last couple of times I've had pizza, I've managed to break out in hives........don't know what I'm allergic to either.....

Jryan

May 9 2008, 09:05 AM

QUOTE (hotaru @ May 8 2008, 06:22 PM)

i think you should stick to your guns and keep at it. smoking is an awful habit and you are only thinking of him, his health, and you family. like you mentioned, smoking can be expensive. i dont know how much it cost to buy cigs in other places, but in ohio, they cost an arm and a leg. dont give up ^__~

QUOTE (cifan70 @ May 8 2008, 08:15 PM)

I think you should definitely stick to your guns and hope he quits. I am going to get my script tomorrow and follow doctors orders on it and hope it works. I have the support of my family on this and the support of all you guys so hopefully that is enough to help me quit. I have tried to quit 4 times before without actually quitting. Have tried everything over the counter and nothing worked. We'll try a prescription this time and see what happens. It really needs to be done in the day and age we live in.

I totally agree with you. A leader that cannot hold his temper is not good at leading children. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope it goes well. Let us know how it goes.

Well we will see how long Cigs are more important than sex, so far two weeks and holding, lol. I guess he thinks I will give in, and That time of the month is coming up so for sure for me I won't give in next week, lol.

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 08:33 PM)

im very proud of myself ive been quiting smokeing for 4 days nows ...yay!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great Job, I quit many many years ago, I think the first week was the hardest for the withdrawls, then it was, the act of just having something in my hands that bothered me. Keep up the good work.

Jryan

May 9 2008, 09:08 AM

QUOTE (jcsavestheday @ May 9 2008, 12:01 AM)

Prolly so they could say that they got a pizza for 23 cents. I wouldnt' wait that long for pappa johns. Maybe for Pizza Hut, though.

Hmmm, I love pappa Johns chicken bbq hawanian pizza and nobody else has it. Guess I wouldn't have gotten one on that day, I also only eat think crust pizza and find theirs is the thinnest. But I love the edge of Pizza Huts thin crust, but since my surgery Carbs give me Gas, so I tend to try and stay away from Pizza,

Jryan

May 9 2008, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (Parcher @ May 9 2008, 04:49 AM)

Round Table Pizza is the best I've ever tasted. Must be the spices they use.

where you been parcher? haven't seen you in a Long time. Never Heard of Round Table Pizza, must be a local thing in your area. We have a Red Fish Pizza, they have a pizza called a Gumbo Pizza, its great.

jcsavestheday

May 9 2008, 11:36 AM

QUOTE (Parcher @ May 9 2008, 04:49 AM)

Round Table Pizza is the best I've ever tasted. Must be the spices they use.

Hey look. Parcher's back!

hotaru

May 9 2008, 12:12 PM

QUOTE (jcsavestheday @ May 9 2008, 01:01 AM)

Prolly so they could say that they got a pizza for 23 cents. I wouldnt' wait that long for pappa johns. Maybe for Pizza Hut, though.

it was crazy how long the wait was. my mom and i didnt even bother to stop the car, we just drove by. i havent had papa johns in a while, so it would have been nice to have some. but i prefer pizza from hungry howies. there are a ton in michigan and some in ohio. the pizza is really good.

hotaru

May 9 2008, 12:14 PM

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 9 2008, 10:05 AM)

Well we will see how long Cigs are more important than sex, so far two weeks and holding, lol. I guess he thinks I will give in, and That time of the month is coming up so for sure for me I won't give in next week, lol.

that is some strategy! im sure he will break down anytime ^__~

JanxAngel

May 9 2008, 02:32 PM

QUOTE (HelloBobby @ May 8 2008, 07:29 PM)

I receivced the following in an e-mail today. Some of you younger gals won't understand, but for others around my age (40+), it is hysterical. I spent the whole day laughing to myself at my desk.

ISN'T
THIS THE TRUTH??????

you may need to stop at the women's restroom . . . be prepared!
(Mom would turn over in her grave if you put it on theFLOOR!), yank down
your pants, and assume " The Stance."

You remember the tiny tissue that you blew your nose on yesterday - the
one that's still in your purse. (Oh yeah, the purse around your neck,
that now, you have to hold up trying not to strangle yourself at the same time).
That would have to do. You crumple it in the puffiest way possible. It's
still smaller than your thumbnail

Your bare bottom has made contact with every imaginable germ and life form on the uncovered
seat because YOU never laid down toilet paper - not that there was any, even
if you had taken time to try. You know that your mother would be utterly
appalled if she knew, because, you're certain her bare bottom never touched a public
toilet seat because, frankly, dear, "You just don't KNOW what kind of diseases
you could get."

Ok. All I have to say about "The Stance" is that I've never done it, and I never will unless it's truly horrible and disgusting and there's just no other way to go. However if you insist upon doing this... LEARN TO AIM. Half the time the seat is wet is because people are hovering and not aiming. If you wet the seat by your hovering, WIPE IT OFF yourself. Nobody else should have to.

Traditional Japanese toilets would solve this problem right off because they are BUILT for hovering, or more accurately, squating.

Jryan

May 9 2008, 03:02 PM

QUOTE (JanxAngel @ May 9 2008, 02:32 PM)

Ok. All I have to say about "The Stance" is that I've never done it, and I never will unless it's truly horrible and disgusting and there's just no other way to go. However if you insist upon doing this... LEARN TO AIM. Half the time the seat is wet is because people are hovering and not aiming. If you wet the seat by your hovering, WIPE IT OFF yourself. Nobody else should have to.

Traditional Japanese toilets would solve this problem right off because they are BUILT for hovering, or more accurately, squating.

I have never been to France, and maybe our french friends can answer this for me, but I have been told, that some area's for women the bathroom consist of just a hole in the floor and the woman just squats, now I have gone on trips and been told as a child to go squat in the woods, and have never been good at it, it ends up going down the side of my legs maybe I don't squat down enough, but now at my age I sure aint squating any better.

oh on this thing in the picture, sorry I would be sitting on the floor, I would take out a baby wipe clean it, and someone would just have to help me off the floor.

spookycc

May 9 2008, 06:20 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 8 2008, 10:48 PM)

hey spook look at the neat new button i made!

i wear it on my purse proudly!

Love the button, tasha!

Hope the quittin' smoking is still going well!

tobo86

May 9 2008, 06:26 PM

QUOTE (JanxAngel @ May 9 2008, 03:32 PM)

Ok. All I have to say about "The Stance" is that I've never done it, and I never will unless it's truly horrible and disgusting and there's just no other way to go. However if you insist upon doing this... LEARN TO AIM. Half the time the seat is wet is because people are hovering and not aiming. If you wet the seat by your hovering, WIPE IT OFF yourself. Nobody else should have to.

Traditional Japanese toilets would solve this problem right off because they are BUILT for hovering, or more accurately, squating.

The stance is easy....speaking as a camper and a fomrer parttty animal LOL! Oh, and why is the toilet paper BEHIND the squat position? That's just wrong...

KimberlyTaylor

May 9 2008, 06:43 PM

QUOTE (Parcher @ May 9 2008, 05:49 AM)

Round Table Pizza is the best I've ever tasted. Must be the spices they use.

OUR pizza is the best I have ever tasted, hot out of our own pizza oven!

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 9 2008, 10:08 AM)

Hmmm, I love pappa Johns chicken bbq hawanian pizza and nobody else has it. Guess I wouldn't have gotten one on that day, I also only eat think crust pizza and find theirs is the thinnest. But I love the edge of Pizza Huts thin crust, but since my surgery Carbs give me Gas, so I tend to try and stay away from Pizza,

We have a bunch of different specialty pizzas..inlcuding hawaiian chicken...and taco...and BLT...they are all yummy...but not on MY diet!

QUOTE (CriminallyInsane @ May 9 2008, 07:26 PM)

The stance is easy....speaking as a camper and a fomrer parttty animal LOL! Oh, and why is the toilet paper BEHIND the squat position? That's just wrong...

Maybe you face the wall in their bathrooms?

gorens_veal

May 9 2008, 06:54 PM

QUOTE (JanxAngel @ May 9 2008, 02:32 PM)

Ok. All I have to say about "The Stance" is that I've never done it, and I never will unless it's truly horrible and disgusting and there's just no other way to go. However if you insist upon doing this... LEARN TO AIM. Half the time the seat is wet is because people are hovering and not aiming. If you wet the seat by your hovering, WIPE IT OFF yourself. Nobody else should have to.

Traditional Japanese toilets would solve this problem right off because they are BUILT for hovering, or more accurately, squating.

I don't know. I think I would have to take off my pants, socks, and shoes totally, so I don't pee all over myself.

tashafallen

May 9 2008, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (spookycc @ May 9 2008, 07:20 PM)

Love the button, tasha!

Hope the quittin' smoking is still going well!

yep sure is close to getting through my first week .. i had a bad day at work today and wanted one soooooooooooooooooo bad when i got off work ... but instead i drove over to sammys work and hung out with him til he got off

TennesseCIFAn

May 9 2008, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 9 2008, 08:35 PM)

yep sure is close to getting through my first week .. i had a bad day at work today and wanted one soooooooooooooooooo bad when i got off work ... but instead i drove over to sammys work and hung out with him til he got off

Keep up the good work!

Enaka

May 9 2008, 09:22 PM

Happy Birthday, Spook!!!

janpop4

May 9 2008, 09:52 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 9 2008, 08:35 PM)

yep sure is close to getting through my first week .. i had a bad day at work today and wanted one soooooooooooooooooo bad when i got off work ... but instead i drove over to sammys work and hung out with him til he got off

I wish you all the best Tasha.

Okay here's my story. Hubby went to doctor and got my script for the new pill on the market to help me quit. The doctor said to make sure I talk to my gastro doctor because apparently people with Crohns disease who quit smoking have more flare-ups. I am freaking out. No wonder I have had no problems with my Crohns since I was diagnosed. I had a appt with my gastro doctor this afternoon and he is saying the opposite. Quitting is better for me. People with ulcerative colitis are better smoking. Smoking apparently calms the ulcerative colitis down but flares up the Crohns. Now I wonder if I have Crohns or ulcerative colitis. When they did my colonoscopy 6 years ago, they couldn't do a full one because my blood pressure bottomed out. I am having another one done (JOY, JOY) June 11th and the gastro doctor will do a full investigation and make sure it is Crohns but he says go ahead and do what I am doing and IF I have any flare-ups, let him know and he will go from there.

Any of you that know about Crohns or know what it is, it is not a fun thing to have. A very painful thing to deal with when it flares up. I remember it very well when I first got it and the no one could figure out what was wrong with me. I was off work for 3 months and in the hospital for a month. It was debilitating pain. I could barely walk. Flare-ups I definitely don't want. I don't have the time at work to take for it and I can't afford to lose my job over it. I took short term disability leave 6 years ago when I was diagnosed. That is now gone and if I did that again, I wouldn't get paid. Can't afford to do that. I will get the script filled tomorrow and read the pamphlet on it and see about side effects and go from there. I will let you all know what happens.

tashafallen

May 9 2008, 10:13 PM

im bored... sammy is watch his shows .. and here i am with nothing to do

KimberlyTaylor

May 9 2008, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 9 2008, 11:13 PM)

im bored... sammy is watch his shows .. and here i am with nothing to do

Troy is watching basketball...now that is boring!

tashafallen

May 9 2008, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (KimberlyT @ May 9 2008, 11:17 PM)

Troy is watching basketball...now that is boring!

haha agreed! ..

KimberlyTaylor

May 9 2008, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (tashafallen @ May 9 2008, 11:22 PM)

haha agreed! ..

I am gonna grab some veggies and go watch some LOCI Bobby Goren!!!!

ciaddict

May 9 2008, 11:33 PM

FINALLY I have internet at home! JOY! Now I can get on whenever I want and not have to wait to get to work or to my mother's. My mother, however, is not pleased. She says the only time she sees me is when I want to get on the internet--which has been a lot since I joined this board. ::mental note to self: GO VISIT MOM--A LOT!::
It is wireless hi-speed internet but it has been incredibly SLOW today. My daughter says it will be faster now that she has done all the updates--have no idea what she's been doing, but at least I'm on. YIPPEE!

tashafallen

May 9 2008, 11:35 PM

QUOTE (KimberlyT @ May 9 2008, 11:25 PM)

I am gonna grab some veggies and go watch some LOCI Bobby Goren!!!!

hey kimt posted some new pics in the meeting VDO thread ..

ciaddict

May 9 2008, 11:39 PM

QUOTE (Parcher @ May 9 2008, 02:49 AM)

Round Table Pizza is the best I've ever tasted. Must be the spices they use.

QUOTE (Jryan @ May 9 2008, 07:09 AM)

where you been parcher? haven't seen you in a Long time. Never Heard of Round Table Pizza, must be a local thing in your area. We have a Red Fish Pizza, they have a pizza called a Gumbo Pizza, its great.

Round Table is good, but I love Pizza Hut's crust--nice and greasy.

Maybe Round Table is a CA thing? Or West Coast--I don't remember if they had them in Oregon. Parcher, you're from CA, aren't you?

ValleyOfTheShadow

May 10 2008, 04:02 AM

QUOTE (ciaddict @ May 9 2008, 11:39 PM)

Round Table is good, but I love Pizza Hut's crust--nice and greasy.

Maybe Round Table is a CA thing? Or West Coast--I don't remember if they had them in Oregon. Parcher, you're from CA, aren't you?

Jryan is from the Eastern side of the US.

I actually am not that fond of Round Table, i know they are all over CA, I haven't gone to a Round Table out side of the state because i dont like them anyway.

Jeanine30

May 10 2008, 07:21 AM

wow, there is alot to catch up on!

Sorry to hear about your teenager trouble ciaddict. R sounds like a trip! I would be furious if someone called my daughter's school and excused her absense without my permission! What was she thinking? Is there a horse stable nearby that your daughter can help at & ride? Maybe giving her an alternative to R's place would help?

Tasha: Good going with quitting smoking! My hubby & I added up all the money we spend each month on cigarettes & it's not a pretty financial picture. I can't believe how much we spend to feed our nicotine habit! We tried quitting this week too, but it only lasted 2 1/2 days. DH gets so irriatable without cigarettes, I couldn't stand it anymore & bought a pack. We'll be trying again on Sunday.

For those of you who successfully quit: What did you do to curb the withdraws? Any other advice?