I've been thinking about what kind of finale I would like to see. I've always had the notion that the people of the present should get together and fight off the PFTF. The PFTF would still be okay, because if the present day humans build a better world now, the future will be better too. I think we've seen some foreshadowing that could lead in that direction-Tom gave Jordan the list of the final seven Marked agents. Tom and Jordan are hardly on the same side-in fact Tom wondered whose side would be in charge when they got back to Seattle. But they are now on the same side against the Marked, so there's two present day humans going after some PFTF. I also wish we could see two pictures. One of the world in the future in the original timeline, and the world in the future at the same time after Jordan's movement. I'd like to know once and for all if he really did save humanity.

That's my wish list for the finale. What's yours?

I want to know WHO abducted the 4400 and sent them back and WHY.

This has been the biggest question since the very 1st episode, and until it's fully answered I will not be a happy camper. For this reason, the season 4 finale will be a HUGE disappointment if it turns out to be the last of the series.

I'd actually like to see where it all began. Kind of end it where it started but on the PFTF side. Why the took the 4400, the process and the return. There view of highland beach when the ball of light came. A full circle ending. To me that would be appropriate.

They explained "why" in season 1. What they have not explained is "how."

I would really wanna see that too. I wanna see the Elitist city and just why it was important to do something so drastic as kidnap across time. I'd like to see them as they abduct everyone, with a brief snippet of the families of our favorite characters. How did Shawn's mom react? How did Jordan Collier's business associates feel when their money-making tycoon vanished? Maybe if we beg really, really hard we could get a spinoff. I can dream!

That's why we neeed a book series too....so many side series books. Their lives before abduction. What happened because of thier abduction. What would have happened if they didn't get abducted. ETC ETC. I could come up with sooo many. After all I"ve read all the "side series of Trek" and man do they know how to come up with book series.

I'd like to see some more background, Zippy. I'd really like to know some more about Matthew, especially now that we know he was still in there with the Marked agent. What kind of person was he? Did he have a family? How did his friends feel when he left for the center, and died there?

I want to see the 4400 make a real difference. I want there to be a point to the whole charade. I want their sacrifices to mean something. And naturally I want the answers to our questions.

i see more 4400 uses abilities in the show that interesting....

Well for the next season, I'd love to see how the government reacts to the sort of "explosion" of promicine. Even though they seemed to get it under control by the end of this season, I'm sure that there is still a chance of the promicine "virus' spreading to other areas.

I hope for a season where the tide shifts, and P'negs are the ones being "terrorists" fighting irrationally against P+'s even the ones who aren't trying to start a revolution.

I hope for some parallels of our past issues where certain races or cultures were repressed. Go the extreme like certain cities banning P+ from public places or things like that.

NTAC's role in this would change, now that so much of the country has turned P+. Since they would have P+ working for them and still have P-negs, they could turn into the force that maintains the "peace" between the two groups, helping to police promicine, keep people from abusing abilities, and maintain social order.

I'd like to see Marco become more active, especially since he can teleport now, perhaps working more in the field.

I think Tom should refrain from taking the shot, I think that him and Diana being P-neg and working for NTAC in the role I described above would be profound. They've always been able to handle themselves before without abilities, I don't see why this should change.

I'd like to see Richard, April, and some others return to work for NTAC as well. Even though Richard is a "fugitive" I think they would welcome his ability in their arsenal, and I think after the whole Isabelle thing, he may be willing to do it now that he is sort of all alone now.

I don't think Jordan will "take over" Seattle. I think he's a little broader thinking then that. What I would like to see is now that he sort of has a free pass, he sort of goes around the country and the world spreading the promicine "gospel" as it were. I doubt he'd try to be a political leader. He knows he can do more outside of the political arena. He'd probably want to start mini-promise cities all over the place.

Of course by next season the promicine test will be well established so that will be in opposition to Jordan's goals. It will be interesting to see more of Jordan and Collier (and Kyle) in opposition. Ultimately I feel that Kyle will have a strong lead role in this of course being egged on by Cassie.

It will be interesting to watch the conflict as P+ and P-negs sort of "square off"... as I said, people will have strong views. Of course there will be some who just can't take the shot, but there will be others who will "refuse" on moral grounds, religious grounds, the whole thing. Soon it will become an "us" vs "them" thing and that will cause a lot of tension and conflict... ironically it was this reason that Jordan would have rather everyone take the shot.

If the show takes this route, I'd like to focus less on "individual" stories of one P+ person and how their individual actions affect the central plot, instead I'd love to see one continuous plot that expands from episode to episode.

In addition I'd love to see a now teen Maia take a more central role in this plot. The writers have a lot of potential with this character and I can tell there will be some stress on her relationship with Diana.

As far as a "series" finale, I'd like to see a definitive answer to the question "did we save the future." I think the only way that question can be answered is by someone from the future, but not just any "someone". It's getting harder and harder to believe anyone from the future anymore so what I would like to see in the finale is an older but still recognizable Maia come back in time and tell the main characters "you did it, you saved the future" Perhaps she is living in a future that they saved, or perhaps something even simpler, young Maia "seeing" it. Either way, the only way I will believe it is if it comes out of her mouth.

I'd like to see that Shawn could be finally happy or something he'd find someone he can trust. I want to see Richard back with Lily, and of course Alana for Tom.

Well, the actor that plays Richard (that name is just too many for me) is not returning, so I suppose confirmation that Richard is dead would mean he was back with Lily. And I would like to see Tom happy with Megan, if he can't be with Alana.

Richard will not come back?

I think he's supposed to be on to other projects. I don't really care one way or another-I liked Richard, but I despise what he did to Isabelle, and if he does come back he will have a lot of guilt to deal with for contributing to her death.

We should understand Richard cause he lost everyone he really loved. Her daughter was a killer and don't forget in when she attacked him. He just tried to save her after all. He's not blame.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Richard knew he was wrong-his own mind (in the form of Lily) told him so.

If he could hold Isabelle as a baby the Marked wouldn't give her abilities back i think and she wouldn't die.

I'm really not going to argue about this. Isabelle, Kyle, Cora, and Richard's own mind all said it was wrong. The fallout from Richard's actions were that he and Cora went to prison, and Isabelle was captured by the Marked. You are entitled to your own opinion, but the show firmly established that Richard did the wrong thing.

...but he did it for the right reasons, sort of like Jordan! And I was one of those sad people when I saw Isabelle take that final sip. I didn't agree with Richard, but I know why he did it. You think Tom would ever consider doing it to Kyle?

God, no. Of course Tom wouldn't do such a thing to Kyle-he's been respecting his choices right along, even when he vehemently disagrees with him. And Jordan's intentions are unselfish-he wants to save the world. Richard's intentions, much as he loved Isabelle, were selfish. He wanted to play Daddy. I think it really all boils down to your own perspective. If you think that parents should always have control over their children and order their lives, even when the children become adults, you'll be okay with what Richard did. If you think that adults have the right to live their own lives without interference from their parents, you will not agree with what Richard did.

By extending Amy Berg's insights about intentions, I'd say the writers saw that Richards intentions were good, regardless of the actions taken.

I agree with that! He didn't want his daughter to be a monster. Plus, he wanted to bounce her on his knee again.

Oh little Isabelle (Lindsay} is such an adorable little girl!!

"Daddy!" Giggle giggle giggle

She was adorable, and so not evil-looking!

I liked a couple of ya’ll (yep, my southern accent is coming thru). I don't want to quote all of them so I would just write what I I liked.

I remember reading a book buy V.C Andrews years and years ago, that had (well all of her books are like that) a 4 parter and the forth book took us waaay back to the very very beginning. So, I was thinking about what all you wrote and came up with this.......For the 5th season: Lets go way back to the People that invented the way to go back in time and abducted all the 4400. What the future world looked like? Was Jordan and Tom old at the time or was it after they grew old and died? Also, show who wrote the book? Why was Shawn there when Kyle was supposed to be abducted when everyone else was alone? Was Kyle the last to be abducted, did they run out of time and had to get him now, because the people were abducting was "Found Out" by the Bad PFTF?

I know a few of you could answer this, but it's just my thought that will not go away.

I would agree with that if Richard's intentions were good to begin with. I'm not clear on how Amy's little blurb about intentions apply to Richard. Do you mind clarifying that for me?

Amy Berg said .
If she can see past his actions and allow for his intentions, I would presume the same can be done for Richard.

Ah. Thank you. I will have to respond that there is an essential difference between Jordan and Richard. With the one exception of holding Kevin Burkhoff at Promise City (and aside from sunflower seed deprivation, Kevin was not harmed) Jordan has not tried to impose his will on anyone. He left everything up to each individual's own free choice. Richard, on the other hand, did impose his will on Isabelle. She wanted no part of what he was doing, and he didn't care. He used force on a helpless girl to drag her from her home and friends, and he used trickery to get her to drink the water. So....Jordan's intentions are to allow people a free choice. Richard's intentions are to impose his will on his daughter, no matter what resistance he is offered. I'd say that Jordan's intentions were good, and Richard's intentions were not.

But it still all comes down to perspective. People who think it's all right for parents to order their adult children's lives to their own satisfaction will condone what Richard did. People who think that when children become adults, they have the right to live their own lives and make their own choices, will not agree with what Richard did.

Again, the point was about intentions vs actions. Jordan and Richard both intend(ed) to do what they think is right or the best thing.

If you think so, that's your perogative. I can't imagine a bigger difference in intentions than one person intending to safeguard freedom of choice, and the other person intending to deprive someone of their freedom of choice.

I didn't say I agreed with either man's intentions or actions.

I realize that, EM. I was merely pointing out that Jordan and Richard should not be judged by the same standard for their intentions, since their intentions are polar opposites.

No I think your previous post states very clearly what you think I thought. But I won't debate it further. I know your point, you've made it often enough; which, of course, is your perogative.

I can do what I wanna do (it's my prerogative)
I can live my life (it's my prerogative)
And I'm doing it just for you (it's my prerogative)

oh this is not Bobby brown sing off.

I think you're being too sensitive, but whatever makes you happy.

While I've already stated that I understand what Richard did and while it may not be the best choice his intentions were in the right place, I am absolutely sure that it does not come down to what you suggested. There are other reasons besides the ones you suggest. That may be what's motivating your reasoning but it's not what's motivating mine.

I have adult children (as adult as a 18 and 20 year old male can be) and if it meant helping to make them better would I force something on them? Yes, as much as I could. You never really stop parenting your children, no matter how old they are. The affect it has depends on the relationship you have with them and they with you. Everyone's reasons for their opinions vary. With children I say, you do what you can and as much as you have to, whenever you have to.

Just out of curiosity, aside from a parent always having the right to control their child, even if the child is an adult, what possible justification can there be for Richard to do what he did? I think it is a matter of people's personal perspective of what parenting a child involves-I would even venture to guess that this is why some people have been so angry with me for suggesting that Richard was wrong. I work in a high school and I know all about how some parents respond when told that their actions are not good for their children.

Well I have to say, unless I have beaten my childre (which i never have) or was a drug abuser or alcoholic (which i am neither) no teacher has a right to tell me what is right for my children. I have spent time in Parent teacher conferances and I stand for my beliefs and my childrens...even when my son had a fight with his ROTC commander. I pulled him out of ROTC 4 weeks before graduation.....even though the teacher, the guidance councelor and the principle didn't agree with me or my son for the reasons. See the thing is none of them are my childs parent. My son needed to know that even though I didn't agree with him, I would stand up for his right to feel as he did.

I understand what you are saying, EM, but we know a whole heck of a lot about Richard and Isabelle and their life together. It's true-sometimes school workers are overworked and don't pay sufficient attention. My son's teacher recommended medication for ADD for my son-he was only five years old and had not been tested. She was just annoyed he didn't sit still. But sometimes parents are very uncaring towards their children, like the one I called when her daughter had a miscarriage at school, and she said to send her to the hospital on the bus. Or the one who got mad when I didn't allow her son to hand in the same paper to three different teachers. (It was an essay-he was trying to get credit in English, US history, and World History) Sometimes parents don't want their children vaccinated, or to have a bus monitor even though they know their child gets violent on the bus. We do the best we can with what we've got, and we do better with parents who are willing to work with us. Anyway, as I said, we know a heck of a lot about Richard and Isabelle. We know that Isabelle was in a good place for her, as much as Richard might not have liked it. Most of all, we know that Isabelle was an adult. If one adult tries to coerce another, that is always wrong. Between adults, there should be mutual respect.

[quote name='EasyMac' date='Sep 23 2007, 07:18 PM' post='604631']
Sometimes parents can be asses when it comes to choices made for their children. But those children are their children. We don't always know all the history behind why a parent finally chooses to send a child to a different school or to rehab or whatever else. We judge other's choices based on what we see, for example, Phanta, I might have judged you and your son's choice regarding ROTC to be short sighted, or foolish. But honestly? I have no idea why you made that decision or if it was truly the right decision.


Basically what happened was around the time I lost my job, our car got repo'd, my son's g/f of 3 years cheated on him and broke up with him, we lost our utilities for a week, my older son moved out, and a coupld of other things..in a like 3 week period. He went to school one day --understandably upset and the ROTC teacher asked him what was wrong. He told him what was going on and the ROTC teacher told him to "Grow and up and get over it" and this upset my son.It escalated a bit....and my son asked me to remove him from the class and I said no, that he needed to talk to the teacher and work it out. Well, it got worse. So, I went in and talked to him with the guidance councelor and my son present. I asked him why he would say that to him, that although he is 18, it was a lot for him to deal with, and to say it in front of the whole class. He said that he felt that it was the right thing to do. My response was "You have been a mentor to my son for 4 years, he has trusted you and helped you out in many areas, he even has helped you get awards and recognition from the state and national ROTC's. Why not councel him on how to handle it?" After the meeting I told the guidance councelor that although I didn't agree with my son, if he truly wanted out, then I would support his decision. Well, the ROTC teacher called me and told me how wrong I was, and I explained that my son felt that he could no longer respect him and would not go to class and it would be in everyone's best interest including his if he just drop it. It actually got to the point I had to go back to school because he kept harassing my son, he called him a "loser", he said my son was"being an idiot". I had to actually threaten the school with pulling my son out of the school. Now after graduating my son joined the Air Force and they needed his letter from the ROTC and the teacher refuesed on the grounds "Dane is an irresponsible child and shouldn't be allowed to have it." There was a lot of other things that happend and were said, but this is the cliff notes version.

WEll, it may seem cruel to send her to the hosp on the bus...but maybe she was at work and couldn't leave. My son got hit by a car and had to be taken to the hospital by friends because I was an hour away and I couldn't leave until a replacement came in 5 hours later. Even though some states have laws in place to allow you to leave to take care of an emergency, Florida does not. Florida is an at will state. I could have gotten fired for having to leave. There are valid reasons against vaccnations and a lot of people dont get it done anymore. Even though we may not agree or understand why people do what they do ...sometimes we have to let them handle their children....I had to have a 10 year old arrested for theft because his mother wouldn't come to discuss with me her son's theft of $40 of yu gi oh cards. I did it. He was crying as he got handcuffed. Do I feel guilty? No. Do I feel bad for him? Yes, that his mother didn't come to talk to me instead of letting him go to jail.

I disagree. They said the 4400 were abducted and sent back to save the future, etc. but WHY did they think that abducting these specific individuals (across time no less) and giving them 4400 abilities would save the future?

THAT is the question that I want the answer to, especially when it seems that there is a paradox at work, where if the existence of the 4400 and hence promicin is what screws up the future (something else we don't know for sure), then whoever ultimately sends them back is commited to preserving that specific chain of events (which would make it tough to argue that they did so with the intention of SAVING the future). For me to be satisfied with the ending, I want everything to come full circle (as others have mentioned) and see the person actually deciding to abduct these people and send them back, and what his/her reasoning is for doing so.

Otherwise, I'll always feel that the most integral question to the entire series was never answered (much like the X-Files, which had such a convoluted ending that it really cheapens the fun of going back and watching the 'arc episodes', because you know that even the writers apparently had no clue what to do with the story and they're just leading you around, ultimately arriving at a dead end).

That is the "why."



That is the "how."