I've been saying I don't like the PFTF-I don't want them interfering with the present day humans, not even to save themselves. It's starting to look like maybe the catastrophe in the future is that P-Positives and P-Negatives are at each other's throats and that's what's killing off humanity. It's also starting to look like at least one faction of the PFTF, the ones who created the 4400, are trying to save humanity by making everybody P-Positive. I thought a poll on this subject might be interesting. Thoughts?

I wish you had one like this: Yes, the PFTF are desperate and they are trying to save humanity, but I don't like their methods

That's option 2. Find another way to save humanity without promicin shots. We all seem to be pretty much in agreement that the PFTF are desperate. Personally, I think it's safe to say that if their catastrophe is they can't get along with each other, they could definitely find another way to save themselves without destroying innocent lives in the present.

I was thinking about their methods of abducting people, taking over their bodies, placing them in different timelines. I don't like that they do that.

Ah. I don't like that they did that either, but since it's in the past, I didn't think to include it in the poll. I was curious to know what people think of the PFTF now, because so many posters have strongly supported the PFTF in their quest to save humanity. At least they did when it was only 4400 lives that were ruined-I wondered if the PFTF are losing their luster now that they are working on killing off half the planet to save themselves in the future.

Rock, I am thinking that we are in the future so to speak, and the catastrophe predicted is beginning right now. The have's and the have nots will possibly be the end of mankind as we know. Yup...the steps through evolution can be painful.

I wonder how they think they can save themselves when so many people die. One of their ancestors might die which could result to them not existing. This leads to the notion that they are seeing whatever is happening from a distance and any effects of the current timeline don’t affect them. Maybe that is what the room is. It is a place where nothing ever changes. Or the 200 people on the list are the people or ancestors of the PFTF. Saving them will guarantee that nothing happens to them in their future timeline.

That could well be, Mickey, and I ask you-is this really a catastrophe? I mean, a catastrophe should be something huge and unavoidable-an act of God, so to speak. A giant asteroid hurtling towards earth, an earthquake or volcano of unprecedented size, massive climate change...Not people saying, "Well, we don't like those other people so we're not going to play nice with them." If this is indeed the catastrophe, it is painfully trivial and entirely avoidable.

I'm not crazy about any of the options but I particularly don't like option #3. Haven't voted yet. If I do I'm leaning toward option #2.

I have always wondered what made this catastrophe so special. If I had a time machine, there would be plenty of things I would like to change i.e. Slavery, Nazis, colonialism, find Jesus , so many wars to stop so why did they choose the "catastrophe"?

Maybe cuz it's far worse than any of those other events???? And if it is far worse then those few you listed it would be a catastrophe cuz those were some horrible events in our human history.

Rock, I guess I am thinking in terms of creative license using a sense of a Greek Tragedy when a hero's misfortune by events are changed. But I agree that it was avoidable but the PFTF have stepped in and started a change of events that may cause a different society....at least how we know it today. The chain of events are much like a huge snowball rolling and gaining momentum. Now it becomes a catastrophe because it cannot be stopped. Thereby, we will experience severe consequences as the human body for the have's change. Am I making any sense?????


edit: Hmmmm "will expereince severe consequences...second thought could be a positive effect."

The catastrophes you list all have one thing in common with the PFTF catastrophe, if it truly is that P-Positives and P-Negatives are not getting along. The catastrophes you list are all purely human in origin and could have had a reasonable solution that didn't involve the deaths of millions of people.

I think there might have been better ways for them to help. I keep thinking this catastrophy must be pretty bad. I wonder when we'll find out what it was.

Sure, Elessar, no good choices here. Maybe that's because once the PFTF decided to meddle with present day humanity, there were no good choices left.

I don't like option three because it sounds like people who said in 1938 "If there's any blood keeping Hitler out of England, let it be English blood, NOT American." People who don't care about the catastrophe in the future are as guilty as those who caused it. That's what happened with slavery, people didn't care enough to stop it which is why it went on for so long and still goes on to this day in parts of the world. And no one cared about what Hilter was doing to the Jews until he was a threat to them personally. Some don't even believe that the Holocaust actually happened. And the Indians killed during the creation of the western worlds. They're only savages was the mind-set of the times. This mentality of apathy and self-interests has always been the cause of the horrible events throughout history. And here it's happening again with I don't care about the future, just me and mine today. It's not that I like what's happening and what the future are doing, but I don't like the attitude behind option number 3.

I get it, Elessar. You don't like the idea of the PFTF having to deal with their own problems in their own time. I don't like the idea of PFTF coming to our time with their problems, because they can't learn to get along with each other. I also don't like being told that if I don't want to sacrifice half of humanity today to save the PFTF from their squabbles in the future, I am as guilty as they are. This is not the same thing at all as any of the examples you cited, because every single one of the examples you brought up involved present people in their own time. Everybody has to deal with their own problems in their own time-what the PFTF have done is bring their problems to a world that has nothing to do with their problems. Another difference is that people had the opportunity right along to work on the problems presented by Hitler, slavery, and the American Indians. Those problems got out of hand because people turned a blind eye to the warning signs. The PFTF have foisted some huge problem on the people of the present, and we never had a chance to see any warning signs, or to work on correcting the problem before it got out of hand. Your examples do not correlate to the problem of the PFTF, and you may not like the third option, but I notice I'm not the only one who voted for it. Other people are tired of the PFTF too. Finally, the best way to preserve the future is to protect the present-I'd rather save the people of the present. I don't want to see half of humanity sacrifice themselves in some misguided attempt to save PFTF who will probably just find something else to squabble about and cause another catastrophe.

anyone ever wonder why the father of the 4400 had to be waken up by PFTF? How did he even create promicin if he was in the state he was in? Unless his work from before was what led to promicin later by other scientists. Or maybe there became a cure/he snapped out of it in the future.


As for the methods of the PFTF I don't think anyone can fully judge their actions because they don't have the whole story. They could very well be justified, and when humanity is on the line, sometimes you gotta go to the extreme and possibly break a few eggs on the way. Like I said before, sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the greater good. And rest assured not every single thing is going exactly as the PFTF planned it, they can't possibly plan for everything, they even said this themselves, there is just too many variables. But just cause everything doesn't go to plan doesn't mean to plan will fail. Do you really think the PFTF will want to change the past if it wasn't very serious and worth it? by changing the past, they will most likely be erasing their entire lives in the future, and possibly even wiping themselves from existence, all to save humanity, so they are making sacrifices to, good or bad, they are even taking the risk of destroying humanity anyways, but to them it is worth a shot because if humanity is doomed either way, it doesn't matter if it is sooner or later. Atleast they have a chance in the past. The bad PFTF think they are good, and the good PFTF know they are good. The bad PFTF are more like snobs who only care about themselves and what they want. That is why they want such a grim future to stay the same. They are happy there isn't so many people in the future. But you gotta wonder what is so good about the future to the bad PFTF.

People keep making this argument that because the PFTF are desperate and dedicated, that means what they are doing is worthwhile. I think this is faulty reasoning, because if 9/11 taught us nothing else, it taught us that dedication to a cause does not necessarily mean that cause is worth fighting or dying for. Just because the PFTF are willing to die to further their agenda, does not automatically mean their agenada is right.

9/11 is completely different, and really has no correlation. to me people keep making the argument that there is a way everyone could live without having to make sacrifices, which is not reality at all. again, 50% losses is alot, but if it keeps from 90% losses then it is worth it. People might think 'well they can do better than that' and maybe they can, but what if they can't? the PFTF are very smart, and even though they are in the situation they are in, they most likely used the experience to learn from their mistakes. It doesn't mean they still don't make mistakes, but you can't always have it all. If you learned anything from 9/11, that could correlate to this, it would be 'save as many as you can or save none at all'.

I acualy don't like any of the options because I think there are good PFTF: the P+'s (in general) and there are bad PFTF: the P-'s(in general). Somehow the P-'s became became represented by the wealthy, corporate, and millitary and came to power in society. The P+'s went to start a new and better world outside the normal political/economic structure in society. These self sufficient and efficient groups scattered around the world became a threat to profits and power and therefore, the Marked was formed to elimate them.

And that would apply in an unavoidable situation. If there's one thing I think is certain about the 4400, it's that the PFTF did not have to meddle in the past. The situation of half the world dying from promicin was completely avoidable if the PFTF had stayed in their own time and worked out their own problems.

In the future the world is a waste land, everything in nearly destroyed, and thats not all, there is still a threat that will destroy everyone who is left. the war isn't the only reason why the PFTF wanted to change the past, everyone in the future will die for some unknown reason. I doubt corporations are around anymore to control much of anything. You may not like the options, and the PFTF may not like them either, but it is their only options therefore necessary. In the future, there is almost nothing of society left. The marked was formed to keep the world the way it is in the future, by going in to the past to counter act the other PFTF's plans. The bad PFTF are not necessarily P-.

Interesting theory. If so it kind of turns, things upside down which would be interesting. However, I think that marked are defiantely evil and if they somehow are in league with the P-'s, then the P-'s are likely bad too. Plus they seem to fit in too well with the roles they take as goverment and corporate officials.

um thats not a theory, the only part that is theory is the part where the bad PFTF are not P-. It is already known that the marked are evil, except the marked don't think they are.

Yes, when you come right down to it, we have the Marked, who want to kill Jordan and use Isabelle as a weapon of mass destruction against the 4400, and we have the PFTF who created the 4400, who don't mind if half the population dies, as long as everybody takes promicin. Not much to choose between, and I hope Jordan wakes up and realizes that he's going down the wrong path.

Do we know for sure that the PFTF wanted promicen to be given to everyone or could that have just come from Kyle's book which may be a plant by the Marked?

Jordan will most likely avoid a physical war as much as possible. maia is the reason for this. she told him that she saw the future (a lie) where if there is a war, everyone loses. Jordan will take this advice very seriously.

sorry that is what I meant

At this point, we don't know anything for sure, but I'm guessing since the Marked are against the 4400, who have promicin abilities, they are against the spread of promicin, which would give every surviving human an ability.

Hey Rock, that's a great question. I do agree with you. The word "catastrophe" is just in the eye of the beholder. In the big picture or maybe in the very distant future a "catastrophe" or uprising between factions is needed for some wierd reason. Some sort of evolutionary madness? Survival of the fittest? The actual future events haven't been explained enough to tell if it leads to a international WWIII type thing or the cease of life in all forms on the planet.


Another thing I try to ponder is that when we say PFTF it is the same people we see on screen or distant relatives of those people; it's not a separate entity.

Does anybody have a guess to how far in the future we're talking about here?

Yes, I suppose it all seems to hinge on how much faith Kyle and Jordan have in Cassie.

We do kinda know for sure that the PFTF did send jordan back to give promicin to the masses, I believe jordan even said this was part of his purpose after he had returned (in earlier seasons they thought they could help people develop abilities without giving them promicin before they had the shot, and the father of the 4400 was angry about this because he thought it was a scam), why else would the PFTF make him a 4400? His ability to take away abilities is why he was chosen. Which is also why he was chosen to give out promicin. I doubt the book could have been planted by the marked since they were all sent back to the present timeline in the show, and nowhere else. the marked have no way back to the future and no way to communicate with the future. Plus kyle's ability led him to the book itself, I doubt the marked could have manipulated his ability to make him find a false book.

I also meant everything else wasn't a theory either, it is fact that in the future most of the world is a wasteland and society is almost destroyed. Who are the corporations going to control when there is almost no one left? remember, there is only one city left. I doubt there is any corporations left either.

Thanks, Boom! Well, we have no idea how far in the future the alleged catastrophe is, but if the light being that came out of Kyle is a sample of a future human, I'd say it would have to be thousands of years down the road.

"Hey Rock, that's a great question. I do agree with you. The word "catastrophe" is just in the eye of the beholder....Does anybody have a guess to how far in the future we're talking about here?"

I'm guessing the year 4400

the light being may not be a future human in natural evolution but a result of a 4400 ability or technological tampering. although they could all be light beings and just making themselves appear normal when the people in the past are shown in those labs in the future. however, it is kind of doubtful, because of toms vision of himself in the future implanting whats-her-face with Isabelle, he used some type of laser weapon and they were obviously using other hand held technologies. The light being may simply be an ability that transforms people into such a thing, or it may be a technology/ability that allows them to control people from the future. of course, some people might say 'now how come the marked dont do that', well maybe they can't.

good one
The future humans look like us. We saw them when Maia was in the Room.

According to the Season 1/2 Companion Guide the number 4400 means nothing, it was just a number Ira Behr liked. But that doesn't mean they can't make it mean something, such as the time frame for the future people.

I think they probably look like us too, but that could have been an illusion, to make Maia more comfortable.

Same with Tom seeing his "memories" impregnating Lily, it could be an illusion to help him accept the Marked entity.

Still, I am guessing the future humans look like us.

I didn't get a good look at the light being. Did it look humanoid? I doubt that people thousands of years in the future would look just like us, because of technology and other factors like environment. After all, we're much bigger and we live longer than people thousands of years ago.

it looks like the light that takes the 4400 to the future, with tentacles of energy and such, except its much smaller. kind of like a freaky octopus, but it is just basically tentacles with a ball in the center.

True but we're still pretty similar, to even the first "humans".

The odd thing is it wasn't the same one that took Alana

Thanks, 4400s. So it's not even vaguely human, which leaves two possibilities. One, of course, is that this thing is not human-it's some kind of technology or another species altogether. And two, that humans have evolved out of all recognition to present day humans. I'm guessing if the second possibility is true, it would be child's play for them to make themselves look human to us, so anything we've seen in the Room might not be trustworthy.

Something just occured to me. The PFTF are from....well, the future. From where we stand, their lives are not set in stone. Allow me to propose a scenario. Let's say the series ends with a huge battle to throw out the PFTF-maybe even somebody manages to destroy their time-traveling technology so they're stuck in their own time and they can never meddle in the past again. Is this a bad thing for the PFTF? Not now that we know what their problems are. We can work on building a better world today, and that will cause a ripple effect that will save humanity in the future without involving the sacrifice of innocent lives in the present. Thoughts?

boomshaka.....this is what I attempted to explain but you put it much simply. I believe that the catastrophe is beginning now with the transformation of having all have's as a population. We are now moving into an evolution of man in the sense that everyone is to have an ability; thereby survive, and those who do not are removed from the species by death. Somewhere in the middle of the change will be a huge uprising from both sides to continue to live with a complete breakdown of the intrastructure.

I never said that.

You're assuming that's the reason that they did what they did. We don't know all the facts about what the catastrophe is or what their reasons are for doing what they did.


The remark I made about being guilty was a refection on the "I don't care" part. IMO, we should at least care. That doesn't mean that we have to agree with what they are doing. I do care what happens to future generations. So if I can help I will. Again, that doesn't mean that I agree with the things that TPFTF are doing. I hope you can appreciate the difference.

Across time or across oceans, what's the difference? People believe that what is happening in other countries and to other races/religions/nationalities/sexes don't matter. Why? Cuz it's not happening to them. Time can be substituted for any one of those. That was my point.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, Rock! You seem to think that I agree with TPFTF. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. My entire post was in regards to the "I don't care" attitude. I have no problems with anyone who voted for the third option. That goes for options two and three as well.

The difference is that when it's your own time, there is always something that can be done, even if it's across an ocean. You can boycott an offensive nation's products, write letters to the editor, support candidates that are in accordance with actions you want to see. When it's across time, as in this instance, people have no opportunity to take any action. That's the difference.

Okay.

Well sure those can be done, but not if the person doesn't care enough to do them. The was the only point I was trying to make.

The people from TPFTF aren't all evil.I think cassie and the marked are.The person from the future who talked to tom in season one didn't seem to act like all the other pftf that we've met have.The only thing he/she did was deliver the message and then leave.I think that which ever side that entity was on was the good side of the fight.It's funny though, TPFTF have tried to control almost every single major player on the show, they said that tom had to kill issabel and when he didn't do what they wanted they took alan away from him, they took maia away from diana, they had jordan killed, kyle was used as an assasin against his own will, but the only person who hasn't been affected or controlled directly by TPFTF is shawn.They haven't really done anything to him yet like they have with the others and the first thing that they do to him is order him to be stopped when he went up against some of their plans. I'v got a feeling that not many people have screwed up TPFTF's plans like shawn has.First with taking kyle's place in the abduction process and now with the posting the list which from cassie's reaction was something that they really don't want happening.It's kind of intresting.