please email me if you understand

I'm confused about what you're confused about! (lol)

Perhaps you could explain what it is that you don't understand and maybe someone can help you.

Actually I think I'm less confused. What Jordan said about the whole world needing to take promicin, as horrible as it sounds-maybe he's right. Maybe the PFTF created the 4400 to bring about this exact outcome, because in the future the P-Negatives and the P-Positives are at war. It looks like the Marked are P-Negative-otherwise they would just use their abilities to bring things about instead of working through others. The Marked created Isabelle to destroy the 4400 and they have displayed a special interest in killing Jordan. Maybe Jordan did see the future and when he says the P-Positives and the P-Negatives will be at war, he's speaking the literal truth. And maybe, just maybe, it's better for half of humanity to die than for mankind to be totally wiped out.

I'm surpised to hear you say that, rock. wow.

Why would 'The Marked' also want Shawn dead if Isabelle is their weapon to kill Jordan and the 4400?

I didn't think it was actually said the the PFTF are warring positives and negative. It's supposition.

That would be like saying all "non-Christians" should die so the world could be at peace. Smacks of Hitler to me. But, he if you are up for a little Genocide to cure the worlds ills, who am I to stop you. There is no "cure". Even if they succeeded with making a future of only one side or the other, eventually another issue would crop up. Ok all the P+s are gone, lets get rid of those pesky blondes, buddhisht, etc. There will always be diversity, you can't stop it. And there will always be those opposed to those that are "more diverse" than they are.


**note according to the Bible, God flooded the world to rid it of the people who became evil. ONLY Noah and his family survived. They repopulated the world, and there are people who still became evil. Getting rid of that which you do not agree with will not make it go away. Nature abhors a vaccum.(which trek movie was that from?)

HEY!

sorry it was the brunette in me LOL

And another thing:

There is a natural Ying/Yang in the world, opposites. It will always be that way. If one is elimated then another will take its place. Our history books, religious books, our daily lives are rife with it. I'd say it would be a matter of allowing humanity to continue with it's never ending differances or wipe it out. Survival for all, or death for all. There is no middle ground.

Good/evil
right/wrong
left/right
man/woman
gay/straight
Christian/non-christian
religious/non-religious
up/down

...and in the words of my Favorite Muppet Grover

NEAR.........far
NEAR.........far
NEAR.........far

sorry couldn't help myself. LOL

oh and let's not forget Shawn "Who get's to choose that one?" who do you let live? who is right?

When did the Marked say that they want Shawn dead? Cassie said she wants Shawn stopped-did I miss something? As far as we know, it has not been confirmed that Cassie is one of the Marked or has any connection to them.

although rock we could argue that the best option would be to let nature run its course if humanity is to be ultimately wiped out why not let it happen naturally,then again is that option still available given that the timeline has been dampered with ,with the reintroduction of 4400 in the past...

this reminds me of terminator i always wondered about the fact that john send a comrad back to the past to help his mom only for that guy to be the one who fathers him :

The Terminator (1984) In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear. Something unstoppable. They created 'THE TERMINATOR'

Judge Dredd (1995) In the future, the Earth transforms into a desert wasteland called "The Cursed Earth". Crowds of people now live within walled "Mega Cities" where crime is out-of-control and elite police forces (The Judges. Judge, Jury and Executioners all in one) enforces law and justice in the Mega Cities. The Year is 2139. The Planet Earth has changed into a virtually uninhabitable place called the "Cursed Earth". All of the Earth's population have crowded into the cities across the planet...

just thought i'd show how this theme is common in sci fi/futuristic films,seems like a common idea on which writers agree the world is heading to chaos and poverty(not only financially) ressources are s scarce,the is inequality between haves and haves not,accentuated by discrepancy between mega walled cities(civilized!) and outside(lawless wasteland and rebel-land)
between the dreaded prospect of earth natural ressources shrinking and global warming it is not such a far-fetch conclusion plus the lifestyle of cities as oppose to countryside what could possibly changes us from our present course ...4400?

Evenstar, in The Terminator, the future was not changed-the machines still took over the world. The only thing that was accomplished by going into the past was fathering the man who led the humans in their fight. So The Terminator does show that a small change in the past can "ripple" into the future. You're right-the setting of Judge Dredd is a vast city with a lawless wasteland outside. But what Jordan saw was the opposite of that-the city was where the bad guys lived. I don't know what's right or wrong here-I'm just trying to make sense of it like everyone else.

gee phanta(i'm kidding) " u talk in absolutes only a sith lord would say something like that 'ur either with me or ur against me' i will do my duty"(rid the world of ur crazy thinking)-based on SW3(o.b.kenobi to anakin) there's something ominous about him saying that!sniff why cant we compromise!!!

exactlywe're all trying to make sense out of the info the show provides us,
what i'm wondering will it truly change anything,is the catastrophe truly preventable?,is it wrong to try to prevent it?
about the pftf i'm not sure they want to change the future just an aspect of the future,i havent heard them say they r willing to sacrifice themselves for a new future (create from their tampering)to take over,
about judge dredd and the city there were both bad/good people inside and outside so who's to say that in the walled city jordan saw there werent a good faction even in the elite there is dissent ...of sorts!

Because I don't think we are wired that way. Some can compromise, some can't. This forum is a great example.Some agree, some don't. Some even agree to disagree. But, we don't all just compromise. There are some of us who believe that if you compromise what you believe, then you compromise who you are, and eventually you compromise youself into a corner,that you can't get out of. And there tends to be one side that does more compromising than the other...thus creating the "haves" and the "have nots".

I was thinking the same thing. If Jordan doesn't continue what he is doing, then all of humanity would die out.

I just posted something similar on another thread before I read this. Looks like you and I are thinking the same thing here. Just wanted to acknowledge that you had said the idea first.

I don't think you can really use that example because God wasn't trying to rid the earth of evil forever, just punish the existing evil. He knew that evil would return.
But I will agree that an attempt to rid the world of conflict is futile. There will always be conflict. And Jordan's methods, whatever his intentions, are questionable to say the least. Still on the fence with Jordan, although I'm more annoyed with him after this episode than before.

Genocide is not that bad, uh?

I'm still on the fence about how I feel about the character, not how I feel about what he's doing.

Oh, OK.

Yes, it looks like we're on the same terrible page, Elessar. Now really, don't you think that Jordan and Shawn could put their heads together and come up with a more workable solution than half the world dying? I mean, are these really our only choices-half the world or all the world? All this brain power and the knowledge and technology of the PFTF, and this is the plan they come up with? Sacrifice half to save the whole? I should think somebody could have found a better way of saving the world.

I agree with you Rock, and anyone else who says "isn't there another option?"

If having promicin based abilities forces the end of humanity

and

if people really don't want to bring the end of humanity

then

maybe promicin should be removed from the equation.

But this latest season is all based on Promicin ... that's the point ... even if it kills 50% of people that's what it's there for ...

Now stop complaining and take you shot ...

Seems like Cassie is all about the movement. All about protecting Jordon. She wanted Isabelle free and does anyone understand why, because if she wants to protect Jordon She doesn't need to have to worry about a weapon like Izzy...not that she couldn't be stopped, I mean they did it before.

Ouch! But it hurts! And what's with the blood coming out of my eyes!?!

The promicin is there to kill 50% of people? Vs giving them an ability?

That was my point, that we can't just "cure" the problems by eliminating them. Even if the Abilities succeed, at some poing there will be another struggle, and on and on etc.

What's really confusing here is whether we should cheer for Marked Tom or not. Perhaps Matthew Ross was right and the 4400 are the catastrophe. Shawn can save people from death and illness, but death and illness must exist in this world. Maia can see the future, but the only good purpose for her seeing the future is to prevent and if she prevents it then she couldn't have seen the future in the first place, and what if we're not supposed to know the future, maybe that knowledge leads to a bigger catastrophe, etc.

Instead of rambling, I just thought of another great ending for the series (hopefully many years from now).

The P-positives are wiping out everyone else and begin to make the planet beautiful again, when a spaceship comes and an alien says, "Haha, I can't believe they bought our "people from the future" story. Look, they cleaned up the place and got rid of all the negatives so we can activate the poison in the promicin and take over this planet."

I think the future ppl who brought the 4400 back are wrong. In the beginning they had a purpose something in the future was suppose to be so bad that some ppl from the future are trying to prevent that form happening so they send the 4400 back. Well it would seem to me that the major "thing" that is going to happen is the war between the positive and the negatives and all of that would have never been if Isabelle didn't work with Ryland and Jordon hadn/t stole the promicin. I say all this to say what was goint to happen so bad in the future that they needed to take 4400 ppl and return them? Then I say Why do they have to kill half the world to make things right is a story line that they did not put much common sense into it.

What is the rush for everyone to take promincin. If he hadn't stolen the promincin then half the world would not be at risk, and before he had a "profit" (Kyle) he was just dishing out promincin. I think the whole thing is written either backwards or the writters are making it up as they go along and forgetting what they did last season and the seasons before that....LOL!

*coughs*

I think that's the default back-up plan if the PFTF story doesn't hold up.

Nothing like killing two birds with one stone, or half the population with on shot. Those who will never be + will die, thus everyone that lives will be + and everyone holds hands and sings victory songs as they step over the dead bodies.

See Rock, Maybe you could help me. I am wondering why the PFTF asked Tom to kill Isabelle, wouldn't they know he is one of the marked in the future? Why would they be trying to work with him?

I don't think the Marked knew that Tom would be Marked in the future, Megan. I think the syringe has a couple of possibilites. One is that it was a fail-safe to be used in case Isabelle got out of control of the Marked. This is, in fact, what happened. Another possibility is that Tom was never meant to kill Isabelle at all-the Marked gave him the syringe hoping he would try to use it and in doing so, he would provoke Isabelle into killing him. This is what would have happened if Richard had not been there to save Tom and use the syringe on Isabelle. Since Tom received the syringe before Graduation Day, when Isabelle killed Matthew, I think the first possibility is more likely, and that when Tom proved he could not be manipulated into following the orders of the Marked, they decided to take him over.

Ah, I guess that helps, but how could Tom have been the one to inmplant Lily? That was before Isabelle, So when she becasme destructive and they gave him the syringe he would have already been marked in the future's eyes. I guess its all quite headache forming, as they would say in charmed whenever they would talk about the future.

Very true about the headache part. I don't understand these time paradox things-I mean, if the catastrophe was averted by the 4400, then there was no catastrophe in the future and no reason to create the 4400. Some of the other posters can explain these things much better than me, but I'm guessing that one way or another, the Marked wanted Tom under their control.

It was the Marked Entity that now resides in Tom that impregnated Lily. I think they showed that entity as Tom to show that Marked Tom remembers events from the Marked Entity's past.

Thanks for that! That is a great point. I can't believe I didn't come to that conclusion on my own. I am feeling much better on that subject. I am so glad I am able to talk to you all about these things, last season I was on my own.

Excellent thinking, EM! Like Megan, I'm surprised I didn't think of that on my own-it's so obvious once you pointed it out.