Hi,

Have you also thought about the possibily of Promise City become the "walled city" of Collier's Gospel (Season 3, Episode 11 - 12)?

As far as I remember, Collier saw: That the powerful elite have shut themselves off in a walled city, while the rest of the world - humanity - struggles to survive in the wasteland that is the rest of the world.

Looking at the progress of Promise City so far, it has/will have all the attributes Collier saw in his vision and, don't forget, it doesn't need a real wall with those beacons in place.

Is Kyle being used by the future again, inducing Collier to create the so called "walled city"? Is he a marked one? Though, as far as I know, he wasn't in Africa in 2005 (Curtis Peck movie prediction - Season 4, Episode 6)...

Just wondering...

Fred.

I don't think that it's the city in the future, but I wouldn't be suprised if it was, either. Certainly the more times that passes between the people who build Promise City and the people who live there, the more will be forgotten about why they are there in the first place.

But I'm rooting for Jordan to do it.

I was thinking the same thing cobalto....especially the "thousand miles wide" anagram from last season. If he keeps moving the beacons it won't take long before he's got at least that much land.

We've thought of it, but there's no reason to think Jordan is going to keep moving the beacons. He only moved them once in a peaceful retaliation to the government's attack. Clearly, he can't keep moving them AND use them in retaliation, therefore it's only logical to say that the beacons probably won't be moved again, at least for a long time.

i've said as much in another thread about epi:'jerusalem' ,so i agree i think it is conform to the description of the walled city jordan give,so i have to wonder if he realize what he is doing and how it might be perceived...
i think that only peopl with powers can stop others from entering a city ,coz what could normal humans do to stop multiple people with abilities from breaking into a city...

my theory is that in normal timeline Pcity intended vision got corrupted by a faction who may have taken over eventually shunning out non promicin people out for whatever reasons,
so maybe another faction research a grp of people:4400 who in the past if given promicin would give p-city a better chance at turning out to be what it was intended to be only a stepping stone an example for the rest of the world to emulate,sometimes change is refuse seen in negative light even when it's a good change by people(nurtured by their fear of the unknown).
maybe jordan knows this and is trying to make it happens so we'll have to trust that he knows what he's doing and that his way is the best/good one....

hmm I'm of a mind that Jordan created Promise city with that city from the future in mind. Supposively from everything i can think of and seen the marked control that last city. So I think perhaps Jordan is making a counter to that future city now that i think about it more.

Sinjun, do you think Jordan has some kind of fortress in mind? In that case, I reckon the P-Negatives will be taken in at some point, since Jordan's foe is the "brutal and powerful elite" and the P-Negatives would be the most vulnerable to such an elite.

I've think about it Cobalto, like many peolple here. Maybe, as far as we know about those two cities they are similar. The problem is that we don´t know a lot about the cities.
I think we will have to wait a couple of episodes to find out more about promise city.

Why did you think that Kyle is a Marked?

1st of all, he killed Collier, probably, in an attempt to stop the 4400 to achieve their goal. Turns out that he actually helped the 4400 cause. So it is certain that he had, or still has, a connection with the future.

2ndly, his ability took him to Isabelle, who was the one who decyphered the prophecy book. Remember, when Isabelle had all her powers, she never tried any good... Now that she has lost her powers she shows she is all good? (for me she is only pretending)
In the part she decyphered, there was a list of names of people who should take promicin and, according to the dialog, these are important people, perhaps the ones who will takeover Promise City. Even Tom is on the list and, all of a sudden, he has a mark now...

Then it was him and the prophecy book that gave Collier the directions on what would be the next step. "It's all on the book"... And the one who took him to the book was his "ability".

Collier is dancing by Kyle and Isabelle's song...

I don't know, but my spider-sense tells me that there is something wrong with him...

I think at one time Kyle was one of the Marked but Shawn forced that personality out of Kyle's system. I still think that Tom is going to start showing the same symptons that Kyle did and he should have talked to Shawn by now.

Maybe the marked marked Tom b/c his passion is to free his son from Jordon's power over Kyle.
That is the only thing b/c Tom is a good guy through and through when he had the oportunity to stop Isabelle he couldn't do it. I think the futue is pulling the strings of both Kyle and Tom.

Also wasn't Kyle the one they intended to take but Shawn sheilded him and was taken instead? The future wanted Kyle not Shawn that is why Shawn is so torn and Kyle is not he knows exactly what path in life he wants to take.

They likely marked him because of his position and the fact that he has a son that's working with Jordan. Not only that but if Kyle was marked like i suspect during the second season, they would have enough information to tell them that another such trick would likely work. That plus Tom like Kyle would not likely ask anyone for help if anything happened to them, thereby giving them the ability to exploit the two. well Kyle did tell some people but not anyone who might have been able to help him.. or try to help him. And it wasn't until after he was used to Kill Jordan that he went to Shawn who ended up curing him. Just saying that the two might be a little too stuburn and a little dim to be as effective as they could be.

And he's Tom. Who wouldn't want to become Tom Baldwin? Seriously, the guy has massive influence and connections to just about every influential person in the movement. Head of NTAC? Check: he might date her. The other NTAC agent who has knows just about everything on the 4400? Check: partners. Healer and figurehead? Check: nephew. Need I continue? This guy has a hookup, and both sides know it. I just hope they don't end up like two dogs playing tug o war. Teams aren't garunteed to win or lose, but it never turns out good for the rope in the middle!

I like your two dogs analogy. When they marked Tom I pictured him as a prized bone between the two sides.

That is an interesting point.

Cobalot Welcome , i know this is off subject but are you really from Bangkok, Thailand? How cool. Do you see the 4400 on Sunday nites too? You make good points, I don't think Isabelle is pretending, well at least I don't think she realizes her role yet. I think she WANTS to be good, but then that wouldn't be Izzy, and what would we do with her then? When she said she was "told" to do those things to the 4400, it was like the bad was inherent in her, not just following orders. Although she does seem sincere. Of course i've been cursed with trusting people, so you can't go by me. Hey I just thought maybe that could be my ability knowing when people are good and telling the truth finally, but now thinking about it, that's kinda like Aprils oh well i'll keep looking. PS you mentioned about a "spider-sense" well i have animal cards and although a spider is not an animal it does say and i'll keep it brief (if you want more info message me)they are known as helpers,protectors,and creators.They are also in Native American peoples folklore. Oceanheart peaceout

Hi Oceanheart, I do live in Bangkok, but it is more complex than it looks, I am from Brazil! I work here for 3-4 years already (can't remember!)...



I have the same view... So, if it was inherent, it's plausible that, now that she is weak, she is just being discreet, but still trying to jeoperdize all the "good" plans...



Well, I was teasing as if I had the same senses as spider-man, but please send the info you have on the spiders, I will love to learn!

Fred.

Spiders are predatory invertebrate animals that have two body segments, eight legs, no chewing mouth parts and no wings. They are classified in the order Araneae, one of several orders within the larger class of arachnids, a group which also contains scorpions, whip scorpions, mites, ticks, and opiliones (harvestmen). The study of spiders is known as arachnology.

Here's a fun fact-An experiment into spider webs in space was conducted in 1973 aboard Skylab involving two female European garden spiders (cross spiders) called Arabella and Anita. The two spiders were taken into outer space on the Skylab 3 mission. The aim of the experiment was to test whether the two spiders would spin webs in space, and, if so, whether these webs would be the same as those that spiders produced on Earth. The experiment was a student project of Judy Miles of Lexington, Massachusetts. When scientists were given the opportunity to study the webs, they discovered that the space-webs were finer than normal Earth webs, and although the patterns of the web were not totally dissimilar, variations were spotted, and there was a definite difference in the characteristics of the web. Additionally, while the webs were finer overall, the space-web had variations in thickness in places, some places were slightly thinner, and others slightly thicker. This was unusual, for Earth webs have been proven to have uniform thickness.

Check out Wikipedia-just type in Spider. You'll get an interesting article with many links to these interesting animals. Here'a a really weird looking spider called a Spined Micrathena

Spiders certainly are amazing creatures

That is one ugly spider. My youngest son is extremely afraid of spiders. He won't even watch them on TV. If he sees one I have to go and get it and remove it from the house. It's quiet funny. He loves the Harry Potter books and got so creeped out when he read the part of the big spiders. Went to see the movie, he almost passed out. LOL. He has woken me up in the middle of the night because there is a little tiny jumping spider near the computer. Near as in across the room on the ceiling. It is just so funny, here is this 6foot tall, built young man with 6 pack abs--afraid of a 1/4 inch spider. He's also afraid of lady bugs--says they are evil creatures that need to be destroyed.

We have seen spiders similar to that around here! They are black and white and have those lumpy spikey backsides. They make webs across some of the old road ways on the property and if you didn't watch out you'd run into one. I HATE running into spider webs bleck! Anyway, interesting that the one you picked out was one like we have!

Phanta, your son is scared of lady bugs? I don't think I have ever heard of anyone being scared of lady bugs! That is very interesing. I have seen them sworm like crazy before, they aren't native to the US and were brought to get rid of the aphids in the Pecan trees I think, might have the wrong tree, but anyway they multiplied much more quickly than antisipated. Well, my mom and I were watching them sworm on the ceiling where her and my dad were living at the time and we counted them and I kid you not there was a tiny one that appeared out of no where!! We were like "Their multiplying right before our eyes!!"

He really is. About 3 weeks ago he was mowing the lawn in the back yard and there was one that landed on a leaf of my boganvilla. He came screaming in the house like an ax murderer was after him. I was like --WTF. There's a lady bug on your tree thing,go kill it. His friends make fun of him. He made them stop the car once because a lady bug got in the car, and he wouldn't get back in until he was sure it was gone. LOL. He needs therapy.

Maybe your son was an aphid in a former life, Phanta, and a ladybug ate him.

I remember when they brought those bugs over. I thought they were called Japenese biting beetles but I could be wrong. Ever since then I have been afraid of them. i don't like any bugs. ugh. What was this thread about I forget
anyway I am def leaning toward promise city becoming the walled city. Hopefully Jordan can keep from becoming the bad place it sounded like when we first heard of it

I'm afraid of mosquitos...

I think this is a very feasible theory evenstar! I was thinking something similar... that PC evolves to be the last city but that the promise of PC is lost along the way.

I'm on board with that! I think all Jordan is doing is creating the Elite, just way ahead of schedule. I think he honestly wants to save the world, but he's just writing that same future. He should know better though. He's the first one to tell of the "Elite, locked up within the world's last city."

He probably figures he can avoid the mistakes made by the Elite, as he has fore-knowledge, or by distributing promicin to the masses. Thing is, something's gotta go wrong.... like the opposing factions will attack PC... or PC takes on a life of it's own that Jordan didn't intend...

I think you're right about this, EasyMac. It all reminds me of Oedipus Rex, where the very actions taken to avoid the prophecy were what fulfilled it.

I would think, if the city that Jordan has created is indeed the city of the Elite in the future, that the Marked would not be trying to kill him anymore, as was seen discussed in Curtis Pecks movie clip, after all, he is giving them exactly what they want right, yet somehow they still want him dead. Just makes me less likely to believe that this city is the one talked about from the future. Besides, if they do suceed in bringing this kind of paradise to the rest of the world, as he stated they are intending to do, where is the desolute waste land that he saw outside this Elite city? I of course as always could be totally wrong in my opinion, after all, I am not the writers, but I will hold with my thoughts until they show me different.

Wow, that's a really good point, JordanFan! Your logic is flawless-if the Marked are getting what they want from Jordan, they wouldn't want to kill him.

I think the elite want Jordan dead.. but they want to bring the world to a boiling point before doing so. i have a horrible feeling a lot of people... and i mean a lot of people are going to die i dunno about spoilers i try to avoid them.. just a feeling i have.

This goes back to my theory about the incredible choice. It's going to come down to Jordan having to choose between two options, one leading to the creation of the walled city (this one appeals to him because he will be in control) and the protection of the world (this one appeals to him because it is the right thing to do). One of the major characters, probably Maia is going to point out to him that if he continues to follow his path, then he will create the thing that he foresaw.

I think Mia hit in on the head with her diary entry this go round, saying that Jordan has a dark side also, but that is one of the reasons I love his character so much. He could very well go either way, and not because he is evil, but because he is human, and therefore fallible. If he is on the wrong path, and someone like Mia points it out to him, I am hoping he will have the ability to listen, and not let pride get in the way of reason. I am an optimist, so I am going to believe he will, until I see otherwise anyway. The writers turned him just about around 360 degrees, I would hate to think they did all that with his character just to bring him back to where he was in the beginning. I would boo them over that.

You know the little step thing that racers use at the begining of a race. What they brace their feet on. I have a feeling for some reason that promise city is that.

Perhaps Jordan is a pawn of The Marked... perhaps the Marked are The Elite in the Last City, and they have Jordan doing their dirty work, building the Last City for them.

Hmmm... has anyone checked behind Jordan's ear lately?

I do think it is interesting that he comes back and says that there is a walled city a thousand miles wide where the elite live----and then the first thing he does is create a walled city where only 4400 and P+s live---and he has already extended its borders. In fact, he didn't just extend the boarders--he double the size. If he does that every time --it won't take very long for it to become a thousand miles wide.

in miles
10 20 40 80 160 320 640 1280
Not such a long leap is it?

It's a huge leap if Jordan only continues to extend the barricades whenever he is attacked. He didn't move the beacons because he wanted more land. He moved them as a peaceful retaliation against the promicin soldier attack.

And do you think the gov't is going to stop trying? No way. They will find other ways, but they will keep trying. They aren't going to say "Oh well, he doubled his line, I guess we should stop so he doesn't take more." And each time they try, he can if he chooses to double his wall.

If Jordan didn't want more land (which he needs to house all the P+) he would have simply removed the soldiers abilities and left it at that.

And that would not have been a sufficient retaliation. The government was prepared to lose those men-they wouldn't have cared if a few soldiers lost their abilities. Jordan need to do something that the government doesn't want to happen again.

There's the IF word again. If Jordan does this, if Jordan does that...The fact is that Jordan has extended his perimeter one time in response to a direct armed attack. I'm not going to believe that Jordan is extending his barricade to a thousand miles wide until...well, until he extends his barricade to a thousand miles wide.

It must be very hard for you to believe in God. Very many times you have stated that you won't believe it until you see it. You don't believe there are 4400s with weather controlling abilities, because you haven't seen it. You don't believe Jordan is going to extend his city to 1000 miles until you see it. I find that interesting.

LOL Rock! If removing the super soldiers powers isn't sufficient retaliation, why is taking more land a sufficient retaliation? And if taking more land is a better retaliation, then why wouldn't taking even more land be the appropriate retaliation to future government actions?

As for using IF... isn't that what all we can do when we are talking about the destiny of Promise City? Infer and conject(ure)?

That is out of line, Phanta. Not having blind faith in fallible human beings has nothing to do with faith in God. You have no right to challenge my faith in God, based on my thoughts of a human being in a TV show.

Because the government cares about the land, and the soldiers are expendable.

Then let me be out of line. You make no sense what so ever.

OHHHH... they were fighting Jordan to get that land back. I see.

Sure. They want the land back and they don't care how many soldiers they lose in that cause. So when Jordan released the promicin soldiers, that wouldn't mean a thing to the government, but when he took more land-well, that's something that would make an impression. Now they have to think of something else to do. It's a great pity the government doesn't just try talking to Jordan, and it's an even greater pity that the government has been marginalizing the 4400 ever since they returned. They're just people-people with unique abilities, true, but their abilities have not changed who they are.

It has nothing to do with the land, and as such it has never been about the land. It's always been about power or percieved power, not only that but Ideals. If jordan took over an island not of US soil the results would have been the same. Don't forget that the US Did use a 4400 to assasinate other 4400s that the goverment deemed dangerous. You have a few elite in the goverment int he 4400 universe who feel that when people take control of their lives the elite loose power and so they do waht they can to limit that power.

Hence arresting the 4400, the inhibitor. The assasinations of innocent people. The automatic arrest of anyone who uses an ability, even if it saves a life and especially if it saves a life. Really the goverment of that world shows just how weak and scared they really are with every action they take against the 4400 and the promicin crowd. Some actions must be taken to save lives but it isn't about saving lives again it's about saving what they percieve to be power, and control.