I think it is really cruel for any individual to tell someone else not to express there opinions b/c it is not what they want to hear. Last I heard we lived in America and this is a demcrocy. If anyone has an opinion about anything you can tell me; whether it is the past, present, or future -- about the 4400.

We are adults this is just a T....V.... SHOW. THE ACTORS ON THIS SHOW HAVE A LIFE I AM PRETTY SURE THEY ARE NOT AS COOL, COLD, FUN, OR AS SCARY AS THE "ACT" ON TV.....HELLOOO.

To anyone who can not tolorate another human beings OPINION!!!!

Hey, everyone IS entitled to their own opinions. Anyone who is complaining about someone expressing their opinion does NOT need to be on any forum for a television show! lol It's all good.

I have stated the same points iloveisabell, ur right it is not that serious and we need to chill and enjoy the show the way the creators meant for us to do.

I have not know or ever degraded anyone for saying anything on this forum. I was however "attacked" for saying something, because 2 people didn't agree I have gotten a lot of flack. So, what I have learned is this "I have to be completely tolerant of everyone else's opinion, but they don't have to be tolerant of mine. I have also gotten flack from someone because I refuse to apologize for my opinion. I shouldn't have to apologize for something I believe.

"I may be wrong, but you ain't right"

Thanks for the thread iloveisaabell.
As you can see, the character of Isabelle Tyler has become a lighting rod for a diversity of opinions. I even started a thread entilted "Were fans of the 4400 ready for a female villain like Izzy" and enjoyed the varied responses, as you will.

Not only Isabelle, but threads on Jordan Collier, Ben and Shawn as well as other characters that evoke different emotions and posts have their own threads. Yet no matter what heated debates these males characters have elicted, what I have yet to see directed at a male character from the show is a term that is also used as an obscenity in many circles (though it seems not all) against a female character of this show. In all honesty, I took offense at this term being applied to the character of Isabelle, even though the character is one of fiction. I understand that in today's society profanity has crept into everyday conversation and even our young ones have incorporated it into their daily venacular.
On the positive side, I'm glad that the subject came up. It is timely one and imo somewhat reminiscent of the case of a shock DJ named Don Imus. In that case, the boundaries of free speech were tested and ultimately decisions were made that affected all. You could say there were really no winners in the whole fiasco, however it did highlight once again, how women are at the receiving end not only in the media but in popular music of terms that some may consider derogatory or offensive and whether it should be taken lightly. So I was and still am more than willing to delve into this subject concerning a female character on the show and how females are viewed in our present society.

On the negative side, while an attempt to voice my opinion on the matter and also subsequent posts clearly show the situation deteriorated, I did voice my opinon. And much like the Don Imus fiasco. There are no winners here. Whether one views a female (in this case) using it against another female as a bold step forward or backward, the aftermath produced an unfounded (at this time) accusation that a still unnamed poster called another a racist for their use of a perceived derogatory term. Unfortunately, when proof was requested about the post, as this is also a serious matter, it was rebuffed and so at this time it remains an allegation from one poster against an unidentified poster. It may have also contributed to all fans of Izzy being painted with a broad brush based on the actions of a few, and for that I humbly apologize.

I will leave this open ended, as this is your thread and you asked for opinions both pro and con. As the saying goes, "this is teachable moment". As a life long learner, I do not feel above the insight of others and welcome any and all who may wish to further discuss this on the thread highlighted above, pro or con.

Chewy, I love your statement… A Teachable Moment. Working with kids, I find that they all wish to be included in a group; call it a pack if you wish. A child will speak a negative against whoever or whatever…a person or an event. Others join in on the negative because they wish to be members of that pack, and because as humans, we gravitate toward the negative. It can be called an “I gotch ya” moment and provides a feeling of being superior.

This past year, in a group of 15, the kids were expounding on an event and some people involved. The conversations turned a little nasty. Then a moment occurred when it was all quite. One student quietly said, “You guys are lying. Why don’t you tell the truth”. And boy, did I jump on that moment to discuss the pack mentality and separating themselves from a negative group.

As for the use of profanity, it is sad that our kids use such lanaguage and find it funny. But here again, I think they are stepping out and trying out what they see as being an adult. But such words can hurt and hurt they do when used against people. The same ugly words can be used in teasing conversations but then the tone changes, and the same ugly words hurt. When I was a teenager, my mom would tell me that "use of profane lanaguage reflects the level of class that a person has. We have some wonderful words in our lanaguage and we should use those instead of vulgarity. To use vulgar words is rude and offensive". But our kids today find it as a way to connect, which is pitiful.

People give words power. This is why perfectly "good" words have been now "bastardized" to mean something derogitory. As for use of profanity, again people give words power,I'd rather use the word to remove the power than sit back and let it be more than what it is. If people want to judge me negatively because I cuss, so be it. Apparently the fact that I don't drink, smoke, use drugs, or have sex, is less important than me useing a "percieved" dirty word. If my actions of helping those in need with money, clothes, transportation, house cleaning, food, and any help they need is negated because I use "profanity", that says alot about my accusers. I'd rather be who I am all the time then hide it because it is not what some wants to see or hear.

One thing I have always found interesting is that the Bible talks about the power of words, but never once does it say anything about the socially unacceptable words that a particular culture uses. I had a friend who bred champion Clumber Spaniels. She was also a teacher, and when talking about her dogs to the kids, she would use the word bitch because that's the proper term for a female dog and the term that breeders use. I listened to a man talk about how he was attending a convention in the United Kingdom, and how he almost got his nose punched in by an irate father for saying that his child was a cute little bugger. Apparently "bugger" means something very different across the pond!

In the Bible, it talks more about taking the Lord's name in vain, and it also talks a lot, especially in Proverbs, about how words can hurt, and it's not talking about name-calling. It's talking about attacking people, mocking people, talking bad about people. I think some people have demonstrated very well on this forum just how many bad things you can say and just how much you can cut at people with your words, without using a single "improper" word. And they do it to real people. I personally don't care what someone says about a character, because a figment of imagination has no feelings to hurt. Something to think about, and no doubt to some people, something to attack and mock.

Hiya Rock, I was looking up some info on the word Bitch. "the word bitch became a naugthy word in Christian Europe because it was one of the sacred titles of the Goddess Artemis-Diana, leader of the Scythian alani or "hunting dogs"...in Christian terms "son of a bitch" was considered insulting not because it meant dog, but because it meant the devil, that is spiritual son of the pagan Goddess." So basically Goddess has been turned into a curse word. **The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets

So call me Goddess anytime you want.

Why should I? I continue to be "beaten" up about it. And I would have to respect them to say that. I will not discontinue the use of the word because someone doesn't like it. I didn't not direct the word at anyone on this forum. It was to a fictional character on a fictional show.

Since some people do so much mocking, without using a single bad word, I looked up the word "mock" in the Bible. Here's some Proverbs.

Proverbs 1:22
...How long will mockers delight in mockery...

Proverbs 9:7
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult...

Proverbs 15:12
A mocker resents correction...

Proverbs 29:8
Mockers stir up a city...

do what you must

All right, now, I have to say this. I would like to point out, yet again, that Phanta did not direct the "offensive" word at a person, but at a character. She has defended her right to say whatever she wants, but she's not the one who keeps nagging at the word. Mostly it's people who have felt very free to use sarcasm, hypocrisy, and mockery against other posters who keep bringing up this issue. I have to wonder what it means when the people who attack other posters the most are the ones most offended by a simple word.

I, personally, have words that I don't have a problem with, but I don't use around other people because they have a problem. I don't say "you people" in school, because although that was a perfectly acceptable expression when I grew up to denote groups larger than one, some of my students have said they found it offensive. My students, in turn, do not say "boob" because I can't stand that word. I don't know how a word for a stupid person became an acceptable term for a part of a woman's body, and my students think I'm a little nuts, but they respect me enough to not use that word.

Here is what I think is an acceptable compromise-I'll just say what I think and everybody can do as they please. Phanta doesn't use the word "bitch" anymore to describe anyone, real or fictional, and everybody else stops nagging her because she used it to describe a figment of somebody's imagination.

can we leave the bible and religion out of this discussion please. thanks

Rock I thank you for your support, but it really doesn't bother me. They talk about character is showm by words and actions. Their actions say alot about their character. Those who have a problem with me are the ones who are upset because I didn't apologize for using the word. They don't like that I don't find the word offensive. The don't like that I have stood up for my beliefs. And that is ok. They have a right to feel that way and to say so. I have a right to believe as I do, whether or not anyone agrees with me. And you are right about other words being "acceptable" but more offensive to me. I hate when men call a woman "gal", drives me crazy. To call someone "dawg" even though I know that its suppose to mean something good now a days, is offensive to me. To each his own.

You're welcome, Phanta. Now that I know you don't like the word "gal" I won't use it here-I use it all the time, but out of respect to you, I won't use it here. And since Elessar doesn't like the other word, I won't use it in any context. For the record, if you have to apologize, I think you should have to go last, after the few others who have made it a practice to attack people they don't agree with. Guess I've had my say, and we'll see how it all plays out.

You are incorrect, I have been "attacked". I have only used the word once about Isabelle and then in a definition about my opinion on why I don't think it offensive. And as far as "do we have to use that word to express ourselves", in some instances yes I feel it is warrented. I feel that my comment about Isabelle was justifed in that, She was not exactly a wholesome character in season 3 that some of the posters would like to portray her as. I was quiet accomodating, I started my own thread to discuss my feelings about Isabelle and have only posted one or maybe two comments on the "love Isabelle" threads since. I have confined my views on the matter to my thread I created and this one about being entitled to my opinion. I will not "apologize" or "retract" the "offensive" statement to accomodate anyone. Now, if you would be so kind as to "get off my back" about it. That would be appreciated.

That's a good guess, Elessar. It's hard to be kind or courteous to someone who has been mean and sarcastic. Personally, I wish the whole thing could just be dropped. The word has not been used since, except in a definitive way, and I notice it's not even being used in that way anymore. Actions speak louder than words-it seems acceptable to me to simply stop using the word, without apologies, and to let all this blow over.

I'm off to see Harry Potter. Just finished reading the last book. I am so happy that Snape was a good guy after all. He was my favorite character in the whole series. AWESOME. And I'm glad harry got to know that. And named his son after him YAY

Oh, I know! Hagrid is my favorite character, but I always liked Snape. I always thought he was a good guy, and I knew it for sure when he killed Dumbledore. There was no way Dumbledore would beg for his life-he wasn't that kind of man. I knew he was begging Snape to go through with it. And wasn't that some revelation about Snape and Lily? Loved the way she called him Sev. And to think if the Sorting Hat had put Snape in Gryffindor, he might have been Harry's father...