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Jordan stays behind the scenes and tries to understand what is going on after he is returned.

Jordan starts to understand what he was involuntarilay involved in, (4400 obductions) and starts to get a basic grasp on where he stands with his government. He uses his as_of_now vast financial resources to publish a book on the entire experience. He uses bias in his book to try and help himself.

He gets the limelight that he was looking for. Accomplishing what he wants, he gets a world-wide name for himself and this allows him to open the 4400 center which is clearly having issues getting started from the get-go.

The healer shows up, and now Jordan can use this indirecly to re-inforce his entire new business and make it 100% legit. The 4400 center changes in a few episodes from a cult-based scam, to a real and valid organization. He is still confused and still does not understand what is role should be, nor understands exactly how the 4400's fit into the world, as he is a business person. He blindly takes a vision from the soon to be born Izzy as "gospel" because it is a 4400 ability. Many things happen, and Jordan changes from a shrewd money making business man, to realizing that he thinks he has a role that is much larger than any money making company CEO could ever have.

Jordan learns later, that lying and misdirection do not work with for a leader and only works inside large companies. He is cornered and is proved to be a lier. This further changes his ways and makes him an even more pure leader. Even though there are many references to 4400 abilities not making people "great people", only fallible people with extraodinary gifts. He is still clearly evolving.

Jordan clearly learns from this. He moves out of the lime-light and tries again. After stagnating for quite some time, a post-4400 shows up as a guide. Jordan does not understand the situation at first, but does tollerate this new development. In one episode, he clearly indicates that he will play the messia role, but only to get his agenda across (very smart).

Jordan moves from using money, to only using abilities as an asset. From being fully diversified, he is now forced himself to non-leathal terrorism, and inside the United States. This can only last long as Jordan's advanced "soldiers" can keep up the resistance.

It has been proved time and time again, that pure numbers and deployed force will lead to some kind of conflict and that superiour numbers and mass production will win out, no matter how much advanced technology is used.

Jordan could have clearly made a "paradise" anywhere in the world. There are refernces of making a "Paradise" of previously useless portions of the globe.

Jordan has indirectly created two fronts circa WW2 when there was no need at all.

There were many references to this in the last episode. Jordan is clearly mimicking many advances from the past, while also repeating history. Jordan is using any means available to escalate his cause while also recruiting new "soldiers". Sean sees this, and also Kyle displayed dismay.

Jordan split his militay off from his (original) citizen followers. This is a one way road that never is going to be rejoined.

Jordan cares about people and has been trying to do the right thing since Richard and Lily returned to the 4400 center in season one. I don't see him changing in that-his heart is in the right place. I don't see it as non-lethal terrorism to take over an abandoned, polluted, unliveable section of the city and make it a good place to live. And I'm definitely having second thoughts about the promicin distribution, since the government was continuing to create promicin soldiers to combat the 4400. The vast majority of the 4400 are living quiet lives and not bothering anybody, yet the government has marginalized them and made their abilities illegal. Why shouldn't people like Jordan be afraid of the government and fight back?

First off let me start by welcoming NTACid4652 to the boards, I hope you have a good time here!

Now on with the post! Rockingmule, you are so right about Jorden. He has a good heart and has the backbone to do what he has to to make a better world! I don't agree with a few of his methods but overall he's doing whats he feels is right. Taking over a highly polluted industrial area and purifying it and making it livible is a far cry from terrorism. Also, I think that the only reason the government made promicin and the use of abilities illegal is because its something they can't control.

Im also thinking that Jorden might be the key to Izzy getting her powers back...If he can neutralize abilities....why couldn't he act as a catalist n restore abilities too? Much the same way Shawn can heal someone with his power...or he can kill'em.

I have no interest in seeing Isabelle get her powers back. I'm liking Isabelle very much this year, but it's Isabelle the person I like, not Isabelle the Super Power Juggernaut. I'm liking that Isabelle is maturing and trying to redeem herself, and with her intelligence and knowledge, she doesn't need any more abilities to make a difference. And I'm sure now that she and Jordan have teamed up, we can expect good things from them, because I think they were always meant to be on the same side.

Im not saying I want Super-duper Izzy back either, I like how she is now but i can deffinitly see the show's writers saying " ok...we'll have Jorden restore her powers...but with a side effect that her powers fade away after a few days"

I wouldn't mind seeing her get some harmless ability. (Making something grow, or something along those lines) I also wouldn't mind her just being really smart and helpful without an ability. No Super Izzy for me, but I do like her much better in this season.

Me too. Isabelle is finally becoming a real person, and I like the kind of person she is turning into.

I loved her in this epi. She finally seemed almost "real". The conversation with Maia was awesome.

Oh, I know. I really liked Maia, leaning up against that wall, all tough, not even bothering to face Isabelle. Issy actually looked humble! I gotta say, even though I'd like to see her with more action, since she is a key character, I'm very pleased that they're giving her enough time to change and grow and stuff.

I like that she had more then 2 lines this epi. And Maia wasn't in her Jammies the whole time !! Wardrobe had a workout this time with her lol

I'm thinking she has a one-scream minimum for her episodes though.

Could be. I'm not a huge Maia fan, but this was a good epi for her. She wasn't just a "pre-cog", she took some action, etc.

Ditto

I guess I'm trying to figure out what the writers want Jordan to be. They have made him out to be villan from season one, and he has made questionable decisions, even with this "chage of heart" that have killed thousands.

I grant that he has not forced anyone to take the shot, but he has put a deadly weapon in their hands that has resulted in many suicides(?). That leads me to belive that he doesn't care as much about humanity, as much as cares about gaining more P+ disciples.

He may not be the power hungry business man from season one, but powerful he reamins. The word I keep throwing around is exclusionary. He wants members for his club, so that when the world is better, his club will be able to enjoy it, the dead be damned.

What are the writers and producers planning for this character. Is he a villan or not. Hios present actions are passive aggressive.

What makes Jordan a good guy? I have seen nothing that he has done that leads me to believe that he has personal intyegrity. In fact, his integrity has been in question since day one.

Initially he wanted to give the 4400 a haven. Ok. But we know that he alterior motives there. Now, he wants to give 4400/P+ a haven, but at what cost.

I think he hasn't changed too much, he always cared about the 4400 --just now he has a purpose ---to save humanity.

I understand what you're saying.
I think the writers are just tailoring the show around the complexity of human decisions. Good people can do bad things, and for reasons that they feel are justified. Just like someone considered "bad" could have a change of heart and do something unexpected, which could be construed as "good". That way they keep the fans guessing. I like how the show is allowing us to see the indecision in Jordan, because it seemed at first everything was so clear to him. But in this week's episode he seemed hesitant until Kyle had to convince him or I guess a better word would be "reassure" him.
I've said it before on another thread. I think the folks from the present are the real good guys, or the innocents. The pftf, both sides have each decided the end justifies the means, and the 4400s are just the pawns in "their" war. They just came from the future and decided to pluck people up without saying why or giving them a choice.
Last year Isabelle was so sure of her "mission" after Mathew slapped her and told her what to do. That turned out very badly. Now this year Jordan is in Izzy's position. He was determined to hand out promicin based on Alana helping him resurrect repressed memories, probably memories planted by someone from the future. His decision to pass out promicin has caused many deaths, but people had a choice. They didn't have to take the shot. Sorta like drugs. You don't have to get high, but if you do, there's always a chance you could overdose. Some feel the risk is worth it. I could see the producers and writers in the production room hammering out the mythology. They want us to debate and question it. Much of it reflects what's happening in real life. So if you think Jordan's a good guy but mislead to do bad things, then I wouldn't blame you. But he could also be a bad guy that just so happens to see the good in handing out promicin and decided to go down that path. You decide.

I just don't buy it, Phanta. It is not consisitent with what has gone before. When did the 4400 become Jordan Collier? Richard and Lily are gone. The idea of the 4400 is gone. Jordan is all that remains. His pseudo savior schtick is so far from the concept as laid in the original miniseries.

NTAC, Tom, Diana, Maia, Marco, and the crew remain infinitely more interesting than Promise City.

Just because he did not so "honest" things doesn't mean he didn't care. The Idea of the 4400 is still there, he is just trying to include others, it's not an exclusive club anymore. I don't think he is that off the track, the show has always from the beginning played on the religious symbology, blatantly and subtley. The show is evolving and moving forward. Richard and Lily are gone, but they weren't the only 4400s and they weren't the core of the show. I think that Tom, Diana, Shawn, Jordan, Kyle and Isabelle are more core than they ever were. Just my opinion. At the beginning Jordan did a lot for the 4400 even if it was with less than good motives. Now he has purpose and direction, but he wants it for all.

You know what I noticed? Jordan talks a good game, but he still needs reassurance. First he believed the vision Baby Izzy gave him over Maia's( I think his vanity won out with that one). Last year Alana had to show him who he was and where he'd been (okay, the jury's still out on that one) next Kyle is playing his guide, and Maia was instrumental in changing his course of action (for now). I like that fact that he questioned himself, because everybody does, that is except the truly insane leaders like Idi Amin and Hilter, oh and the leaders of each faction of the pftf

Yeah, I was happy to see his conscience come into play. But his character is a rollercoaster to me. He wanted to be sure he was doing the right thing, which pleased me, but his television speech clearly showed he wanted only promicin people and that resistence would be met with severe pain. I mean, you'd think he'd try to offer people a choice like he did with those soldiers. And I wonder: did Maia cause him to simply move his borders, or was that his plan all along?

Jordan moved the border in retaliation for the attack by the soldiers. I don't know how much more of a choice you can offer people than to say they can join or be left in peace. And he has stated clearly on other occasions he wants everybody to work together, whether or not they have promicin abilities.

I know he stated that before, but I'm a little fuzzy whether or not that still stands. I know I keep repeating it, but he said, "All you need is an ability." At least at this point, he doesn't seem willing to share the world. And ya know what? I blame that book! And I blame Cassie's Kyle.

I'm a little fuzzy on it too, Zippy, but until we know one way or another, I'm willing to give Jordan the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to go on his one statement when for three years he's been trying to include everyone in his dream.

Okay, you have a really good point there. Of course, keep in mind the stakes are higher. Can we agree that Jordan is ready to follow this book? Remember, he sought Kyle's approval before doing something drastic. He believes in this book, and this book tells him everyone has to have promicin. Sadly, even though I still believe he's doing it out of good, I think he's not going to just accept everyone anymore.

There is definitely more than one message coming from Jordan so I think there is a reason to wonder what his response will be when non-P+ people ask to participate in PC. I would hope that he'd be willing to let sympathetic non-P+ people participate, but I can see why he might be hesitant to do so, in terms of the risk of inadverantly letting a anti-P into the ranks.

Good point, E-mac. I think he'll want you to take promicin as a show of faith. Which isn't fair. My response would be: "Listen man, I'm more than willing to help, but I could die if I take that stuff. Wouldn't you rather have another pair of hands?" Of course I wouldn't join in the first place I don't think...

Yes, that we can agree on, but I think the book is going to be revealed to be something different than what it is supposed to be. I'm highly suspicious of that list of 200 names-where in the world did Kyle get the idea that the people on that list are guaranteed to survive promicin? It's just as likely they will die, and people will look at the martyrs and rush to join a cause important people were willing to give their lives for. All through history, dead martyrs have been much more inspiring than live heroes.

Oh, I think there's something fishy about it too. I'm saying he's following the book, so his priorities, like uniting all p-positives and p-negatives, have shifted into turning negatives to positives.

And when Kyle told Tom he was pretty much garunteed, I was content. Ya know why? Because it hasn't been established yet, and the first character to say it was the zealot. I think Kyle will be wrong, someone (please not Tom!) on that list will take the shot, die, and Kyle will have to rethink the whole book. Talk about a monkeywrench the machinery: someone on that list dying due to promicin would be perty bad.

The biggest problem is a lot more basic than if the book is true or not. The way Jordan is carrying on about promicin, you'd think it changes people's characters. It doesn't-people who are mean or stupid or selfish are the same way after a shot, only now they have an ability to work with. Jordan was right to make it available to the public-the promicin soldiers prove that, because we can't have a government with super human powers over normal human beings. Gee, when I say it like that it REALLY sounds bad. But he is dead wrong that promicin will create a better world. It's compassion, and kindness, and such lovely intangibles that make the world a better place, not paranormal abilities like telekinesis or being able to turn invisible.

Ah, I think we've just found a common ground! I think promicin to Jordan represents a common passion everyone believes in. Of course, the flaw of this is not everyone believes in it. Did you laugh too when Garrity said, "Did he just say he's annexing part of Seattle?"

These abilities won't change the world, but everyone working together is a start. If only he wasn't blinded by a mysterious prophecy!

Well, we can always hope that Jordan will take the blinders off!

Right on it. Think anyone will develop the ability to use others' abilities? Like someone else can access Cassie, so maybe we'll actually get to see her again? I'd like some answers on that gal!

Oh, and two words. Pooh. Bah.

Oh yeah!

I think what Jordan was reffering to was that the people who posess those qualities you mention will have a device to utilize, that can enable them to bring on a change. Promicin is simply a tool, not a remedy.

You rock GF!

I agree with Imitar here, I don't think he believes it will change a persons character, but those who are willing to use their abilities to make the world a better place can deliver some great results. Look at the lady who cleared the river, now imagine all the rivers in all the countries being cleared of polution, I think those are the kinds of powers and the people Jordan is thinking of, unfortunately, you will get the bad apples in there along with the rest of the bunch. That is the second biggest problem with his plan, the first still being the 50 percent chance of death.

As the him saying you only need an ability. I don't look at it as him saying he doesn't see non P+ as part of the future, the city is supposed to be a safe haven for those who are P+, because as you all know, the government has made it a crime for those people to have the abilities, much less use them. as for the future, he said if you didn't want to join them, then just leave them alone, stay out of their way and let them bring about a better world. That doesn't sound like he doesn't want those without abilities to not be able to enjoy the fruits of the changes, as Promise City is only the starting place.

I totally agree with you, JordanFan!

I hope for the sake of this show that the producers are not even/ever toying with this idea. The whole Peter versus Sylar thing got completely out of hand, and overnight made an infinitely powerful yin and yang skewing any future plot. Neither of these super upper class can die off, as this would eliminate any kind of in depth plot for another season.

Also, I hope that this show does not turn into a yin and yang duo of two time/space altering characters with abilities that are enabling the time warping portion of the plot. I would rather have a technology enabled method that is more or less a nuclear arms race for the "good" and "bad" sides. This would provide much more room for growth in the show. This show is clever enough to not as-of-yet identify who is the good and who is really the bad people.

I don't watch Heroes but from what I've heard and read I believe I understand what you're talking about. I would rather not see that type of approach as well. Since we've yet to see the "good" and "bad" future people use WMDs, I am guessing we won't. Maybe their methods of time travel preclude the ability to move weapons (ala Terminator, could only move the man/terminator, nothing else), or maybe the abilities of the future eliminate the need for WMDs?

Still I do not finish deciding to me; I am not decided on what thinking of Jordan.
First, we have to think that we was a business man, was abducted and came back. As he was an important person, he and the other 4400 adopted him as a "protector", a person who cares about them really, because he is one of them.
You can think that giving promicine tho normal people is okay, just thinking that they know about the 50% & 50% and that they want to take it to change their lives; and also thinking that the habilities are not only for 4400 people round the world.
On the other hand, I don´t agree on the way he does the things, but is my personal opinion this ^^.

I'm not totally satisfied with everybody on that list needs to take the shot to gain an ability. Just as well the PFTF could need some of these people to die for the good of the future. If we were could help out the past during WWII I bet we could throw a little promicin Hitlers way! Any comments?

I'm totally doubting that book. For all we know, Mr. Bad person of the Future (or who knows? Maybe Mr. Good--I'm still not sure who's behind Jordan's actions) could've said "Ooh, these people are important. I'll bet they'll die from promicin! Let me write a book. Muwhahaha!" And that's the theory I'm leaning towards, just with more profesionalism.

0.o ...Good theory Zippy! hehe