Did the cases in the last two episodes seem like an after thought to anyone else?

Before I go any further let me say that I enjoyed the last two episodes. The last thing I
want is for a whole message board attacking me. Snoop was great and a fantastic character
for Monk to play opposite of and I love Sarah Silverman as Marcy.

But I look for two things in every Monk episode:

1) Entertainment - Basically, how entertaining was the episode. Did it make me laugh?
Occasionally, they make me feel bad for Monk (usually the ones with
Trudy).

2) The Case - How hard was it to figure out? Was the conclusion realistic?

The last two episodes have been very heavy on the entertainment side, but the cases barely
existed.

It took me two minutes to solve the case in Mr. Monk And His Biggest Fan and in the latest episode
there was barely even a case. Monk did basically no detective work and the answer just seemed to
come to him.

I was just wondering if anyone else thought the same thing?

I agree, but I love my Monk served any way it is. I honestly didn't start watching the show for the cases. I watched it to see Monk's reactions because I relate to them and they make me laugh. Maybe that's what the writers are targeting... ?

I will agree that the cases have not been incredibly hard to figure out, but this show has rarely been a who-done-it and more of a how and why-done-it. So in that respect little has changed. Though this second episode was not great, in some ways if felt more like the older ones because they took their time moving through the case. As of late, there have been periods when portraying his OCD was such a concern they had to fly through the case to accommodate his antics.



Biggest complaint: the guest stars. I don’t really think they are needed so often.

I'm not sure but I don't think they write the episode in order to get excellent guest stars. That just happens. The eps are written to be played by any actor suitable for the part. (Right, Teresa? or Admin.)

I'm pretty sure they don't. David Hoberman, executive producer and co-creator, said they don't. Sarah Silverman was brought in, not because of her fame, but because she was the one who originated the role. As for Snoop Dog, if you have a script about rappers you have a limited selection pool. If he was willing to do it why not hire him? He's got acting experience and rapping experince. It seems like a natural choice. The upcoming episode has guest star Alfred Molina. Not exactly a houshold name but a very well respected actor. It's hardly something I'd classify as stunt casting. He and Traylor did a television series together (Bram and Alice) so it makes sense that he was asked to be on the show.

Actors like Stanley Tucci (for whom the role of the actor was written) and John Turturro (for whom the role of Ambrose was not written), and Steven Weber and many more are friends of Tony Shalhoub's. He knows their capabilities. He doesn't think of them as celebrities, just the best actor for the job.

Ever since they got to L.A. they've also had easy access to almost any actor they want. There are a lot famous people who like the show and want to be on it. I don't think it's really a question of money for any of them. Cable pays a lot less for a guest shot than a network show. Monk just has a great reputation in the industry.

For the record, Tony didn't want the Sarah Silverman/Snoop Dog episodes shown back to back like this, perhaps partly because he thought there might be this "special guest of the week" every week perception. It was the network's decision.

Last night's mystery was definitely easy, but last week's seemed very much like the mysteries of season one; very unexpected method of murder, and not all that easy to figure out for me. I had last night's mystery figured out before the midway mark, and even had Can't See A Thing figured out days before it aired. Last week, I was completely stumped till the last minute. So it didn't seem like an afterthought at all, but more like 'Here's the scenario of a weird murder, we need to write a story around it,' kind of thing.

Last night's was more of an afterthought, but it didn't bother me too much. I did like Biggest Fan better, it made me a little wistful for those earlier episodes, but I still like episodes that explore character growth, I like the fish out of water stories, and I like just really funny episodes, too. If they went with the slapsticky type stories every week with no variety, however, it wouldn't take long for me to get very tired of them. Besides, it's sort of like playing a game; if you play against someone so good you never have any hope of beating, you get tired of losing and stop playing. I do like having the chance to figure it out before Monk does occasionally.

I have been a fan of MONK since episode 1 and I have to say that I am OUTRAGED! it was HORRIBLE!!!!! who cares about freakN Snoop A Loop...???

I enjoy the antics the most but the case does need to at least allow Monk to do his investigating (that is where most of the antics are anyway). What I really did not like last Friday was the rap version of the theme song. Please, please go back to Randy Newman's original.

Im going to probably get attacked for this but, here goes.

I really enjoyed Biggest Fan, I solved the case with ease, I knew what was going to happen, but the characters chemistry got me hooked. To see what Marcy did with Monk was entertaining as hell and kept me entertained. On the other hand, the Rapper episode was a huge letdown for me. I was, dare I say it, bored. I really did not like the 'rapper' storyline. I didnt understand hardly anything when Snopp was talking. Towards the end I also did not get how Monk started to think that 'Murderous' was innocent.. something to do with day light savings, 7:00 pm and 12 hour time, not sure if thats due to my dumbness. The way it was all resolved was just a disappointment, that it was a mistake. I honestly did not like that episode, and thats the first Monk episode I can actually say I didn't enjoy. I really hope the next episode, Naked Man, i believe wont be a letdown, though Im led to believe that this case might be more about Monks fear of Naked Men than about the Case, which I hope I am wrong about.

As I said I probably will be shot after saying that.

WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD!

Monk saw the alarm clock in his apartment and realized that Denny Hodges had to have been lying about seeing MurdeRuss plant the car bomb at 7pm the night before. The detonator was a white gold analog watch which went off at 8 the following morning. But an *analog* watch would never do that. If it were set to 8, it would have to go off at the next 8, which, if Hodges were telling the truth, had to have been 8pm, not 8am. Therefore Hodges had to have been lying about seeing MurdeRuss at 7pm and MurdeRuss was innocent. A "plot" from Two-Minute Mysteries, to be sure, but it works.

The issue with daylight savings time was a separate deal. Hodges forgot about DST and had the bomb set to go off at 8am, when he thought his partner Woody would be in the limo. Woody, however, apparently remembered to set his clock ahead and came earlier, at what would have been, by the bomb's detonator, around 7am. The bomb went off an hour later, killing its new passenger, Extra Large, and thus blowing Woody and Hodge's meal ticket to smithereens. Or rather, Hodge's meal ticket, for he wanted to get rid of Woody and keep the profits from Extra Large all to himself -- the "greedy fool," as MurdeRuss calls him.

I agree with some of this post. I would say your first point is an undeniable fact; the show is a lot more about the how and why. If anyone needs proof of that, just watch some other episodes. A lot of times we saw the crime committed and/or the murderer before the theme song even played. However, I didn't want to just turn off the TV because the how and why (and how Monk would figure those two things out) really intrigued me. As for the rest of your post, I have to disagree. I don't feel like his OCD has been the focus of the show as much as you are suggesting. I also enjoyed the guest stars, though granted not as much as Stanley Tucci and Jeffrey Donovan. They have major guest stars every year and I think that is an important part of the series. I don't see how you can say they aren't needed "as often" when you are only basing that statement on 2 episodes. There will be a lot more episodes that than, especially when you include the second half of the season in January, and I'm sure there won't be huge names on every single show.

*Bang Bang!* Ha ha, just kidding!! I am sorry that you didn't enjoy the Snoop episode. I did enjoy it for reasons I've stated in other places, but that's not why I am replying to your post. I am sorry that you feel people might attack you on here just for your opinions. I think we all need to remember to treat each other's opinions with respect. We have a similar situation on the Burn Notice thread where people are getting attacked on both sides of the issue for some complaints about the new show. I would hate to see that happen here. This is such a happy place!!

Hello Eddict,

Remember everyone is entitled to his / her opinion and I for one respect that. I think it is more the way in which someone presents their opinion that tends to offend some of our happy group. But in general this is a very happy place to be and express yourself. They way in which you presented your opinion didn't seem to have that negative effect and encouraged some very nice discussion.

I agree that it was very difficult to understand the rap by Snoop Dog. I don't know why he seemed to be mumbling and very low compared to the music. I think that is what is causing all the confusion about the Daylight Savings Time and the missing brunch and making it hard for some to figure out the plot. I had to watch it several times to make sure that I had the right idea.

I would have liked to have seen Antonio Fargas (Huggy Bear from Starsky & Hutch) play the rapper but that a personal choice thing. Now I am telling my age

I liked the episode because it was very different from what we are used to. Although there were a few parts that I could have lived without. But like one poster said somewhere on the boards they don't ask me when they are making the episodes. So I guess I have to take what I get and any new Monk is better than no Monk.

I agree -- it *is* different, and I think because of that, and the fact that the eppie takes us into a world that many of us probably wouldn't go or wouldn't care to go, is part of why people *dislike* it. In that respect Rapper is a lot like Mr. Monk vs. the Cobra, where the world is martial arts. I'm not a martial arts fan, but that eppie was still enjoyable, and not simply because of the howdunit.

Rapper is a lot like Cobra in another respect, too, and that is that it has a theme/subplot of, well, respect. In Cobra Monk learns respect for his new assistant Natalie by reimbursing her for her expenses (even though he has to give up Trudy's old office to do it), while in Rapper that idea is broadened and deepened so that it works at several levels. We see MurdeRuss's respect for Monk as a detective based primarily on his street credit, Monk's eventual respect for his client's integrity, the idea that one's word is one's bond, the respect for truth and justice (as evidenced by Stottlemeyer and MurdeRuss's eventual reconciliation), and finally Monk's respect for Natalie as an assistant/confidante/right hand as opposed to a mere secretary. All in all a neat little episode, even if some find the setting off-putting. If this be crap, let us make the most of it, for even the "bad" eppies of MONK are a lot better than 95 percent of the other stuff we see on TV.

It saddens me that there seem to be some people out there who think that Monk is supposed to fit into a neat little formula, when the evidence suggests that there is no formula. There are ideas and guidelines, yes, but no formula. Andy Breckman and his writers have shown time and time again in interviews, etc., that they love to play around with our expectations and with the character of Monk. Look at all the different ways they have of doing the "Here's What Happened" -- yes, including, now, a rap version -- and all the different types of situations they throw Monk into just to see what would he would do. They are playing with their characters, big time, like Marci and her bobbleheads, and they love it -- even if we don't always. And in the end, I believe, that's a good thing. If Monk followed a specific formula, you can bet that people would be complaining that Monk has jumped the shark because it's become too formulaic. Creativity is good, even if, like Monk, we feel uncomfortable sometimes with what has been thrown at us.

Wipe!

That must be a cultural thing, because a lot of people were saying that but I understood him fine.

Me too... and i don't listen to rap music or anything. I was trying to figure out why everyone kept saying they couldn't understand him. I'm glad I'm not the only one who could. I also understood the entire explaination as "rapped" by Murderous. Made total sense to me.

I guess I never really try to figure out the mystery of the show. I assume it will be revealed at the end and I'm content with that. So I must not be a real mystery buff because I'm very content to sit ignorantly through the show and wait for monk to figure it out. I"m never in a hurry to jump ahead and try and solve it myself. I should really try and start doing that!!! I do appreciate though that they don't pull a "Murder She Wrote" on us and make the solutions something random that was never mentioned in the episode.

I enjoy guest start as well and I was not implying that the guest star thing was limited to the last two episodes, but I can see how you may have misunderstood. In fact, S. Silverman was probably my favorite in resent memory. I just think that we all would still enjoy the show if they never had another guest star ever again. Know what I mean? I think the thing I dislike the most about guest stars is that the network (doesn’t matter what show or channel) feels the need to advertise it. Don’t tell us who is going to be on the show, just let them be on the show, end of story.

It could be a cultural thing I suppose, or it could be due to the way people's hearing and even their television and or surround sound speakers sounded. When I watched the clip that Alex found a couple of weeks ago I couldn't understand much of what Snoop Dogg was saying, but I was watching it on a computer and the recording wasn't the best anyway. When I watched it on television Friday, it was much easier to understand, though I did have some trouble in some places. Watching the two minute replay, I've found that even in the cleaned up audio version, listening to it on my laptop makes it more difficult than on my TV. I think that my laptop produces the higher pitched tones a bit louder than the lower tones, which I normally have less trouble hearing. Because of some auditory weirdness, higher pitched tones are difficult for me to understand and when they are mixed with lower tones, they tend to distort the lower tones somwhat, too, even though I normally don't have a problem with lower tones. When the higher tone fluctuate and change a lot or rapidly, it makes it worse. Maybe some of the other people who had trouble understanding it have similar problems with their hearing?

The last time I had an ear infection, it sounded like people with higher pitched voices weren't even speaking English and I couldn't understand a word they were saying, especially if there was a lot of background noise.

I have never thoroughly disliked a Monk episode until last Friday. Thank goodness I had recorded the Rapper episode to my DVR and while watching it, we were able to fast forwarded through some of it. My husband and I love watching Monk together, but we couldn't wait for this particular episode to end. As soon as it did, I quickly deleted it from my DVR never wanting to see it again.

I like the old Monk and his compulsive behavior. I like how cleverly he solves his crimes. The last two episodes haven't filled that for me, but the one with the obsessed fan was much better than the Rapper one. That one I will watch again, but never the rapper one. Once was more than enough for me.

I have noticed that, monk has been fantastic and hilarious in the last two eppys, but unlike past seasons (1 and 2 mostly) the cases have been pretty easy. mr. monk and the rapper was pretty simple to figure out, and you're right monk didn't do hardly any detecting in the season premeire. not that I'm complaining either, I just hope maybe they can find a balance between monk being funny and a great detective

The Rapper went too far with implausibility and silliness even for a show which makes no pretext of realism or seriousness. Not to mention that my 10 year old fingered the murderer within 15 seconds of his appearance and this wasn't a "Columbo style" one.

The thing that really bugged me is that the explanation made no real sense.

We know that with an analog watch the bomb could not be set to detonate more than 12 "real hours" from the time it was set. We also know that because of DST starting 12 "real hours" would be 13 "time hours." So, the murderer, forgetting about DST, thinks it will go off 12 "time hours" later and get his partner but it actually goes off 13 "time hours" later and gets Xtra large. OK, that makes sense.

But, after the fact, the murderer knows this happened. Why doesn't he just say he saw Snoop an hour later than he did say, then it would look as if Xtra large was the target and that he did account for DST? (Not to mention why was the watch used as the timer in such good shape after the explosion?) He already knew he had to kill the driver because the driver saw him so he didn't need to worry the driver would give the correct time he was in the lot.

Monk isn't about the mystery per se but it needs to do better than that espcially in a show where the situation is so contrived.