nicklaslu1
Aug 20 2005, 08:30 AM
that Johnny threw away the cane in Washinton? So there is a possibility that the future has not been changed at all.
October
Aug 21 2005, 11:59 AM
No, because this is how Wey finds the cane. It all adds up some way, but I'm too tired to explain it.
brattytxn
Aug 21 2005, 03:22 PM
Yes, it is a very good possibility that throwing that cane head away could change or not change the outcome. It is only one event and as was shown in "Vanguard" there is never any proof of anything until almost the end. We may see the canehead again or not. But, if we see Wey, then yes, Armageddon most definitely happens unless they somehow want to wake up Wey before events spiral out of control. John knows that Wey possesses a similar talent, as does Alex Sinclair.
One thing about throwing that canehead away was a choice made for John on "faith" that he could discover another way to solve the complexity of Armageddon events without having to take a life (assassination). FJ helped John decide that by basically rubbing it in John's face of his habit of acting only if he could "see" or "know" the outcome.
We have never really seen John's visions showing his direct involvement in Armageddon, most likely because it may be a subconscious survival instinct, yet hisi intuition or fear has been screaming at him that he was, in part, a cause. FJ confirmed that, yes, everything John was afraid of indeed happens. FJ also basically called John a coward.
If you go back to "Shadows", Bruce specifically said to meet [scary events like his murder] head on because if Fate demands certain things to happen, then Bruce was not going to allow another man or woman take that place. FJ maneurvered Rebecca to do just that as FJ said that John was not willing to make the choice. Certain events are goint to be "pre-destined" and I think that John must fulfill that part as part of his "duty". It may be going through some "trial by fire" that would strengthen John but that maybe John will not accept to do because he is too overcome with fear of the outcome. Or his rage at something destroyed an opportunity (maybe the crucial opportunity) that changed his future role to that of "destroyer" and not "savior" because Wey told John that he was very much hated among the survivors of Armageddon.
The book of Obadiah is interesting. I've always thought John as representative of "Israel". In this book of the Bible the land of Edom, where the House of Esau (Jacob's fraternal twin who was the hoary red haired hunter), was to put down.
Stillson has some parallels to John. He is the "laughing tiger", a carnivore... a hunter. Maybe an "Esau"?
Quoting from Obadiah:
2 "See, I will make you small among the nations;
you will be utterly despised
Think of what happened to Stillson in the book, of how he was "made small" before the world.
3 The pride of your heart has deceived you,
you who live in the clefts of the rocks [a]
and make your home on the heights,
you who say to yourself,
'Who can bring me down to the ground?'
4 Though you soar like the eagle
and make your nest among the stars,
from there I will bring you down,"
declares the LORD
These boasts of "Edom/Esau" are similar to that of Anti-christ/Satan in the Bible.
6 But how Esau will be ransacked,
his hidden treasures pillaged!
7 All your allies will force you to the border;
your friends will deceive and overpower you;
those who eat your bread will set a trap for you,
but you will not detect it.
8 "In that day," declares the LORD,
"will I not destroy the wise men of Edom,
men of understanding in the mountains of Esau?
The above passages describe part of Psalm 23 that describes a table will be prepared for the faithful follower of God amidst his enemies, meaning that somehow there could be protection and in the end blessing but only after the "anti-christ" is taken down.
Because of the violence against your brother Jacob,
you will be covered with shame;
you will be destroyed forever.
11 On the day you stood aloof
while strangers carried off his wealth
and foreigners entered his gates
and cast lots for Jerusalem,
you were like one of them.
12 You should not look down on your brother
in the day of his misfortune,
nor rejoice over the people of Judah
in the day of their destruction,
nor boast so much
in the day of their trouble.
13 You should not march through the gates of my people
in the day of their disaster,
nor look down on them in their calamity
in the day of their disaster,
nor seize their wealth
in the day of their disaster.
14 You should not wait at the crossroads
to cut down their fugitives,
nor hand over their survivors
in the day of their trouble.
15 "The day of the LORD is near
for all nations.
As you have done, it will be done to you;
your deeds will return upon your own head.
16 Just as you drank on my holy hill,
so all the nations will drink continually;
they will drink and drink
and be as if they had never been
This too harkens of Revelation where God allows the earth or the followers of Anti-christ to get drunk on their arrogance, greed, etc. They rejoice over their torment and wealth made by exploiting the innocents. Remember when Stillson said about John that he didn't want to seem that he was enjoying kicking a man when he was already down and the entire room of cronies all laughed?
John lost his wealth and almost his good name in season 3. Can it happen again in the future? Possibly. I'm counting on it.
17 But on Mount Zion will be deliverance;
it will be holy,
and the house of Jacob
will possess its inheritance.
18 The house of Jacob will be a fire
and the house of Joseph a flame;
the house of Esau will be stubble,
and they will set it on fire and consume it.
There will be no survivors
from the house of Esau."
The LORD has spoken.
19 People from the Negev will occupy
the mountains of Esau,
and people from the foothills will possess
the land of the Philistines.
They will occupy the fields of Ephraim and Samaria,
So, Jacob, beaten and deprived of his wealth and maybe "holiness" will arise like a "fire" and spread out and consume "Esau" and all of his kingdom to return back what was taken from them PLUS all that Esau accumulated!!
21 Deliverers will go up on [c] Mount Zion
to govern the mountains of Esau.
And the kingdom will be the LORD's
Ah! "Delivers" in the PLURAL!! More than one working together? Cool!
brattytxn
Aug 21 2005, 03:47 PM
Ok, this is just another push at ye old writers to stay Biblically correct to SAVE John.
Zechariah 12 reinforces the prophecy of Obadiah:
Jerusalem's Enemies to Be Destroyed
An Oracle
1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'
6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
7 "The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
Ok, in knowing that "Jerusalem" is "the woman/bride" of Revelation and then a reference of Judah/Israel and both are working together as a "Christ/Messiah" entity and those who follow them.
"I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves."
The woman will reflect the man. Messiah/Christ is compared to a stumbling block. In the dream of Daniel about the statue where the the stone is cast upon the feet of the statute (Babylon), it shatters it's "feet of clay" (they're all a bunch of cowards but some are of iron, not many though). The feet upon which it stands is very brittle. Only the parts that people notice are flashy, opulent, etc. Whoever thinks of the "feet"? The "Achille's heel"? Jacob is the "heel catcher" isn't he? I love the irony of all of this!
Anyhoo, the people who follow them will be like god in wanting to tear down the evil that has plagues them, the liars and cheats who supposedly were promising a new life and prosperity and "peace".
I love this next part, Mr. Writer, pay attention!
Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [a] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son...
ONE WHOM THEY HAD PIERCED!!! The Christ who was "crucified" by the people but now turned DELIVERER/MESSIAH!! He is leading them!!! Probably with his "Jerusalem" too.
See! No assassination?!! But BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE!!! VICTORY OF THE PEOPLE!! John is "The Michael", the protector of the people and his lady Jerusalem!!
See why I keep harping about this?! Do NOT kill John Smith!