Would it still have powers though if neither of them have the mutation?

if isabelle is pregnant, then her and shawn could be together.

Even bigger plot twist.. Jordan is pregnant.

I like yours better! Go Jordan!

"if isabelle is pregnant, then her and shawn could be together."

It's always a shame when people get together because the girl is pregnant, Chante. It almost never works and the child is the one who generally suffers the most.

In this particular case, Shawn doesn't love Isabelle, so it would REALLY be a bad idea for them to be together. This is a couple who started out sneaking behind everyone's back and progressed to the young lady killing people and threatening the young man's family to force him into marriage. Hardly circumstances that would lead to a joyous union.

But "rocking" people don't just fall out of the sky in a ball of light either. I think it would be great if Isabelle got pregnant for Shawn. I mean, imagine how the baby would be. They wouldn't need to get married. But to explore that plot would be really fun

It's true people don't fall out of a ball of light, Andrea, but there's nothing novel or scifi about an abusive relationship. There are people like Shawn who find themselves with a person who hurts them and threatens them, like Isabelle, and find themselves unable to extract themselves from the situation. It's an ugly set of circumstances that happens every day-it keeps therapists and emergency rooms and undertakers busy, and I don't know anybody who looks at a friend caught with an abusive "significant other" who thinks it's great and beautiful and shouldn't they have a baby? I mean, just because Shawn and Isabelle are extraordinary people with extraordinary abilities doesn't change their all too real "relationship." It's an ugly thing and I can't think of a worse fate for a child than to be caught in the middle between an abuser and their victim.

A couple of years ago, at the high school I work at, we lost a student to her jealous boyfriend. He shot her in the head because she wanted to break up with him. Nobody thought they had a great relationship-some of her friends had been trying to get her away from him. Nothing beautiful or romantic about it-just a jerk with a gun, and thank God he didn't shoot her whole family while he was at it. He'll be in prison for the rest of his life-at least they didn't have children to be scarred for life.

I agree with Rock...this statement seems to be more of a societal issue versus a sci-fi issue. IMHO...that type of storyline would change the plot. We almost saw that with the Diana/Ben/April relationship. People were not friendly to it for this reason.

That's really awful but I think you need to take a step back "rocking". It's just a show. Where we are gonna hope for stange things ok? I mean, I know abuse and the pain that it is. But at the end of the day, we like Shawn and Isabelle together because it's a show.

I can understand what Rockingmule is saying in a real life context, but this is a show namely a drama SciFi show.
I try to not bring my personal philosophy or personal feelings to a work of fiction, instead I prefer to try reading the minds of the writers and judging their intentions in order to know which direction a show will take. In this case I see a loss of momentum if they don't get together again.
Rockingmule - Remember when Shawn tried to kill her, she forgave him. (to forgive is devine)

I realize it's just a show, but the thing is even in a show, there are limits. Real people with real problems watch TV and even if the writers wanted to put Shawn and Isabelle together again, I don't think the network executives would sign off on it. There are too many battered spouses and brutalized children and abused elders in this country to make a storyline about Abuser and Abused living happily ever after palatable.

It's not like people were happy about Shawn and Isabelle's wedding. Sure, people like to see Shawn and Isabelle together, and I think if she tries to reform Shawn will play a big role in her attempt. I think people would like to see Isabelle and Shawn on a less homicidal level in the end. But to try and turn this sow's ear of a relationship into a silk purse? I don't think so-there are some things people don't like to see, even in a fictional show on TV. Very few people like to see an abusive person riding off into the sunset with the person they abused.

"this statement seems to be more of a societal issue versus a sci-fi issue. IMHO...that type of storyline would change the plot. We almost saw that with the Diana/Ben/April relationship. People were not friendly to it for this reason."

Exactly, Mickey. The Diana and Ben storyline hits too close to real life-there are many people who have found themselves in this kinda situation and who have been deeply hurt by it. This is the same thing-too many people have either been in abusive relationships or watched a loved one suffer from one. Nobody who has saw this in real life wants to see "Love conquer all" in a relationship like this on TV.

Actually there are lots of people who want to see them together, even on other boards, on some baords they are floating the idea that Isabelle is actually the mother of the future 4400 type people, so it's easily possible that Shawn could be the father of a whole new breed of humans.

I would leave out the Network execs. because if they get involved usually they just shutdown the whole production and walk away. I am sure we have seen, say, Jordan kill a number of American soldiers and we accept it as part of the show, do you thing we condone murder?

Well, we'll see, Cubex. I don't think romantic and abusive go together, and I don't think the writers or producers or executives will take it in that direction, but I guess we'll find out next year.

As to murdering soldiers, what we've seen of this government is closer to Iraq or Nazi Germany than the United States. If it was the Gestapo Jordan attacked, would it be so bad? We need the correct perspective before we know if Jordan was wrong to kill those soldiers, and the writers have kept us in the dark-is this a good government or a bad government? It's not OUR government-it's a fictional United States. It could be a bad government and Jordan could be totally in the right to fight it.

If I were to buy your reasoning:
Everyone who has lost a loved one to murder should be upset with this show and try to stop it, because Jordan and Isabelle have both murdered people.
Do you agree?

That's an interesting theory. I mean Isabelle could be the mother of a new breed of 4400 and Shawn could be the father.

"If I were to buy your reasoning:
Everyone who has lost a loved one to murder should be upset with this show and try to stop it, because Jordan and Isabelle have both murdered people.
Do you agree?"

No, Cubex, I don't agree. I just said there are some things people don't like to see. Example-a few years ago some fashion designer tried to introduce a line of striped pajama clothes, with shaven heads on the models and deep black circles around their eyes. I don't follow fashion, but it was on the news-people were outraged, because of course the models looked like Holocaust victims. Some things hit too close to home-I don't think the majority of the audience is going to want to see Shawn and Isabelle together, because she has been too abusive. Perhaps there is a vocal minority, but that doesn't mean it will happen. Personally I hope it doesn't, but that's just my opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, because I don't see either of us changing our minds.

rockingmule wrote:
"There are people like Shawn who find themselves with a person who hurts them and threatens them, like Isabelle, and find themselves unable to extract themselves from the situation"

I agree with rockingmule. This was a sick, twisted, abusive relationship from the beginning. Shawn and Isabelle are not cute together. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy them as a couple. Shawn had lost any concept of free will. He lived in fear for his own life, as well as those of his friends and family. He was subject to the wants and whims of bridezilla Isabelle. Shawn was not happy yet the Shawn/Isabelle fans see them as a 'cute' couple. I don't get it...

I hope and hope the writers don't make Isabelle pregnant. I don't have the stamina to survive another season of a super baby.

It would have worked if the writers hadn't taken her character and made her into a Diva fembot. Just reading her blog makes it seem as though she has no time for anything in her life (especially a baby) except her mission to destroy the 4400. Her blog makes it clear that she will not let this go. Even without powers she claims her great mind will help her succeed. But she had her powers AND her mind yet she couldn't overpower 2 non ability NTAC agents, and she seemed surprised that her dad could manipulate the needle with his powers!
I like Izzy and I like Shawn. I don't like what the writers did this season with them. Shawn was a wimp imo and Izzy was so demented it was unintentionally laughable, not scary. The writers got it right with Richard and Lily, and struck out with the first pairing of Shawn and Izzy. The only way it could possibily work (but I wouldn't count on it) is sympathy. She has to get sympathy, but I don't want to her to turn wimpy (or still chasing after Shawn. Let him do the chasing for a change). Maybe the doctors find some type of tumor or chip on Izzy's brain, thus explaining why she behaved the way she did. We don't have the technolgy to remove it, so the PFTF (whichever side created Izzy) send Good Mathew back or someone to explain that Matthew brainwashed Izzy about the scope of her mission. However the writers heal Shawn, since he's in the same hospital as Izzy, he finds his cousin Kyle has been visiting her (at the request of Jordan to verify that she's really lost her powers). This brings out several emotions in Shawn. He fears for his cousin, but his jealously at what he thinks is Kyle's growing closeness to Izzy gets the better of him.

Second scenario - Izzy's loss of powers also causes her to lose her memory. She doesn't remember Shawn or her mission.
(unfortunately, this is contrary to her last blog, but the writers could always claim her blog was hacked by a disguntled 4400) This new Izzy brings out the protective side of Shawn again, especially when Jordan orders Shawn to finish her off and Tom agrees. Shawn can't bring himself to do it, as she reminds him of the Izzy he first met, inquisitive and child-like. Convinced that this new Izzy is nothing like the old Izzy, Shawn falls for her again.

But see, it never should have come to this. Somebody on the writing staff had to know they were messing up a perfectly good character. Baby Izzy had so much promise. Young Adult Izzy, up until Matthew smacked her, could have really been a ground breaking character. Instead of thinking outside the box, like they did with baby Izzy, they boxed adult Izzy in. What a shame.

"Instead of thinking outside the box, like they did with baby Izzy, they boxed adult Izzy in."

I agree with you, Chewy. Adult Isabelle doesn't really have very many options at this point and she'll never be with Shawn again-she'll be very lucky if he can grow to think of her as a friend. Maybe at some point in the future Isabelle can grow enough to have a real relationship with another man, but she has all these bad things in her past and she can never really leave them behind...It is a shame because there was a lot of potential. For the record, I never liked the instantly grown Isabelle.

KerrAvon, that was a perfect synopsis of the Shawn and Isabelle "relationship." By the by, did you notice the poll about Shawn marrying Isabelle is over 80% against them getting married? Hopefully it is a good sign for Shawn's future happiness-he'd be better off with anybody than Isabelle, but I hope he'll be with Nikki.

rockingmule wrote:
"Adult Isabelle doesn't really have very many options at this point and she'll never be with Shawn again-she'll be very lucky if he can grow to think of her as a friend. Maybe at some point in the future Isabelle can grow enough to have a real relationship with another man."

I know this is fiction and not the real world, but I'm thinking in terms of real world consequences. It's unrealistic that Shawn could ever consider being friends with Isabelle. I don't see how he could ever forgive her actions.



rockingmule wrote:
"but she has all these bad things in her past and she can never really leave them behind...It is a shame because there was a lot of potential"

The writers have written Isabelle into a corner she'll never escape from. She's beyond redemption. Beyond forgiveness. She killed and hurt a lot of people at the 4400 Center. The friends and families of those people have to be feeling anger, vengeance, demand for justice. Although, the show will probably not addess this issue.

Like I said, I tend to be thinking in terms of real world consequences.



rockingmule wrote:
"For the record, I never liked the instantly grown Isabelle"

Ditto...
I knew when she showed up at the end of second season it was going to be bad. I just never imagined HOW bad.

KerrAvon, I agree with you that if this was the real world, Shawn would literally run for his life if he saw Isabelle coming, but since it's TV, if the writers want to do a redemption storyline, Shawn will be crucial. It all depends-if there's no redemption, there will be nothing ever again between Shawn and Isabelle.

You know, you've made me think and I realize I don't exactly mean friends when I say Shawn might forgive Isabelle. He's never going to sit down and talk to her again, or walk with her, or be comfortable with her in the same room-she's hurt him too much for that, but I think if she turned good they could be allies in the fight against evil. I think Shawn would be willing to fight beside Isabelle if she was on the right side, although I don't believe he would EVER trust her again. So I suppose Shawn might be willing to have Isabelle on his team if he had to do something and he needed help, but I doubt he'd even want to work alone with her or depend on her.

Here's a question-what if time was reversed and they went back to the time of baby Isabelle, but with their memories intact. Do you think it's possible Shawn might be just a little friendly to baby Isabelle, or do you think she hurt him so badly that he will never want to see her again under any circumstances?

If they could go back to when Isabelle was a baby my first thought would be the 'Hitler Solution.' You know, go back in time and kill Hitler when he's a baby; before he becomes the monster he did. It's a great theory, but, who could kill a baby. Even baby Isabelle.

If they went back to when Izzy was a baby and knew what they know now, the best they could do is learn from their experience. Wait for her to grow up and, hopefully, make better decisions and choices.

Shawn might try to show some attention/friendship to baby Izzy but I think it would be pointless.

KerrAvon, you should see The Boys From Brazil! It's a movie about a bunch of Hitler clones-they're just kids, but they are cloned from Adolf Hitler. Kill them? They're innocents. Let them live? What if they grow up to be another Hitler? What to do, what to do...

I don't know why people want to see Izzy and Shawn together. I think Shawn would be miserable. It seems to me Shawn got with Izzy initially out of passion. Then that wore off and he realized he was not in love with her and tried to call it off and all heck broke lose.
It would be interesting to see Izzy back as a baby. I believe Izzy is doing what she thinks she was made to do by tpftf and who is to fault for that. Matthew! Take Matthew out of the equation and we have a whole different Izzy.

I have asked and others have asked, and everybody who says they want to see Shawn and Isabelle as a couple just says they look cute together. EWWW!!!

This isn't Friends. It's not Ross and Rachel getting back together. Having Isabelle be pregnant is a horrible idea. And Shawn and Isabelle are NOT cute together. There was no relationship. It was just compassion fading into lust followed by guilt unleashing abuse and ending with attempted murder. Need I say more. There are plenty of things they can do next season without bringing a baby into it.
Who says Isabelle is powerless now. The syringe might have only neutralized the promicin currently in her body; but what about the promcin her body will produce? She could regain her power. And if the syringe took her powers for good, there is still her mind. You don't have to have an ability to be dangerous.
AND, if someone wants Isabelle to be pregnant, not to get her and Shawn back together, but b/c the baby could have powers and that would be interesting to the story, well, Isabelle had Lily for a mother and look how she turned out. Do you really want to see a baby have Isabelle for a mother? The only people who think babies are leverage are the type who strap bombs on them to do an act of terrorism, so unless you want to be grouped in with those people, I wouldn't suggest that Isabelle have a baby.
PS- If I came across as rude and pushy, what can I say. I'm from New York.

"The only people who think babies are leverage are the type who strap bombs on them to do an act of terrorism, so unless you want to be grouped in with those people, I wouldn't suggest that Isabelle have a baby."

Elessar, that was a ugly thing to say-thank you, thank you, thank you, my friend, for having the courage to put Isabelle having a baby in the correct perspective. It wasn't rude or pushy-who could ever forget what happened on 9/11 because of people who don't care about anybody but themselves. And you're from New York...I reckon you don't have a chance to put it out of your mind what people who see their fellow humans as leverage are capable of. I salute you.

By the by, it was Andrea18 who started all this Oh, how cute are Shawn and Isabelle. Just wanted to be sure nobody thinks I'M the one who wants Shawn back with Isabelle-I've been fighting the good fight against validating abusive relationships.

Thanks Rock. I am sorry I blew up like that. I try to be fair and open and let everyone voice an opinion but I have a real sensative spot for children and I just couldn't help myself. I don't want to see bad things happen to kids in a show. That's what the news is for (sadly enough).

Elessar, don't be sorry-this is just a bulletin board for a TV show, but where are we supposed to take a stand against abusing children? I would say wherever we can, whenever we see it happening. We can't always do something, but if we ever want to see changes in society, those changes will come at the grassroots level. The laws and norms of this country are not going to change until we, as a people, decide we are not going to put up with abuse. If you read through the various threads, you will see I am not the only one deeply disturbed by the thought of Shawn and Isabelle getting back together. I also started a poll-Do You Want Shawn And Isabelle To Get Married. I encourage everyone who likes Shawn to vote and let the network know we don't want a storyline that will validate an abusive relationship.

I have to agree with Elessar and Rockingmule I find it extremely disturbing to think of Isabelle having a baby and of them getting together! In fact I think I will copy a post I made on another thread...

"I hope with all my heart they do not end up together at least not as a couple, I MIGHT could see them as friends but after all she has put him through, I do not want and can not see them together... There was never a true relationship between them, they started out fine as friends but the relationship went down hill once it became more than that. You have to have a connection with someone such as I saw between Shawn and Nikki they are much more reasonable together... There is WAY to much bad blood between Shawn and Isabelle now, friends would be the biggest stretch I can see that leading too.

And I have to say that the idea of her becoming pregnant, greatly disturbs me, the thought of someone as immature as she is having a child, I would not wish that on any child I'm sorry but unless she takes a major 180 and proves that she has changed then maybe years down the road with someone else she could have a baby, but not any time soon, and NOT with Shawn..."

I would also like to add that the whole boy/girl jump in the bed and she ends up pregnant is so overdone and annoying that I hope they are more original than that, not only is it disturbing but it is over done. Heaven forbid if a child ever ends up with a mother that has the issues Isabelle does...

Good post, Zipity. I'm gonna borrow a little of Elessar's courage and post what I believe, no matter how ugly it sounds. I think Isabelle would kill Shawn if they got back together-she would follow the classic pattern of holding back and being sorry, and then she'd get mad again and this time she'd kill him, with or without powers. Isabelle would not put up with having a baby in the first place-she'd get rid of it before you could say "abortion clinic." If she were somehow forced to become a mother, she would kill the baby unless it had powers of it's own and could defend itself against her.

Talk about a baby having a baby. People talk about Izzy maturing. Well how old his she in actuall years 2? It would take another 18 years for her to experience life for her to mature. There are somethings you can't learn by reading a book. She has been able to read and teach herself all sorts of things but the most important. Impathy. She doen't really care about others. I think if Izzy had a baby she'd just dump the child off on Shawn and what kind of story would that be. NO! Izzy should not get pregnant and her and Shawn do not belong together. All they had was lust. That does not make for a longlasting relationship.

Rocking I totally disagree. Isabelle can change. She did not start out evil. Therefore the writers can create a new image for her. And by the way, I continued the dialouge that you started. hahaha

Andrea I am glad that you shared your opinion and that you let us know why you think Isabelle can change. I would like to say that I hope that she can change, I am still not sure that she will. If she does than I hope that maybe her and Shawn could develop a friendship eventually but after all that has happened in the past that would be very hard for Shawn and I still have a hard time seeing him marrying her at any point in the future. Shawn never loved Isabelle and someone who has been abused by someone they do not love, has a very difficult time forgiving that person and will likely never trust that person again. Trust and love are two key factors in any successful relationship and Shawn has alot of issues he would have to work out before even considering being her friend. And she would have a lot of work ahead of her before he could ever trust her again to any extent, I still don't think he could ever learn to love her either way, trust is one thing but love is completely different.

If Isabelle, for some horrible, unforseen reason, does become good, then we need to see an earth-shattering struggle for her to get that way, and some serious difficulties in remaining that way. So far it looks like she was created to be completely evil (by TPFTF and the writers!).

i dont want her to get pregnant either i just dont think shes very responsible. i mean she may be like twenty physicaly but emotionaly and mentally im not sure. she doesnt like not getting her way and kids always get their way when theyre firat born so i dont know i dont think id like that idea to much.

Andrea, I agree that Isabelle did not start out evil and she can change. I am glad you are making at least some attempt to explain your thinking, although I fear you are still being immature-it is hardly necessary to taunt me about the dialogue with stupid little happy faces.

Can you TRY to think a little and explain to us why you think Shawn should forget all the harm Isabelle has done to him? Can you tell us anything about why you feel it's okay to hurt a person? I know you think I am too focused against violence, but for Isabelle to get Shawn now is like rewarding her for hurting him in the first place. Can you make an effort and explain why you think Isabelle deserves Shawn?

As stated before, I think the only way Shawn could get back with Isabelle is with some sort of mind-meld. Not gonna happen! Isabelle with kids is disturbing-rewatch the scene in the Center's classroom: it's called cold and unfeeling. Her as a mother type? NO.

I totally agree, Zippy. I LIKE kids-I work with kids and I volunteer with kids. If there's one thing I hate to see, it's a child being terrorized. The only way I would believe a child could be safe with Isabelle would be if it had greater powers than her.

Or if it were completely indestructable! Even without her powers, I wouldn't leave my nephew with her for anything! No emotional IQ, a compulsive impulse to kill, and a flamable temper. Oh, yeah: Happy Mother's day!

Ever see The Incredibles, Zippy? Now THAT baby might have a chance to survive Isabelle!

HAHAHA! I had that image in my mind! Wouldn't you just like to see Isabelle babysitting little Jak-Jak?

I would if he turned into a lead balloon and dropped himself on her foot.

not only am I on your side but Shawn did not put up much of a fight to keep Issy in his life. Richard said end it. he being so striken by love said I can never give her up and I want to marry her. No wait he said okay it is over. She pushed the realationship to sickening stalker level. Showing up at his moms house hinting about Nikki being sad if they went out. He did not have an out until JC came back. How fast did he ditch the happy bride and run to Jordan. She tried to kill him even though she claimed to love him. That is not love. He tried to kill her yes but I can't remember him ever claiming to love her. Care about her but not love. I hope they do not put them to back together. I now many veiwers may want it and I respect your opinion but the two of them together makes me ill.

Thanks, Scifimom. I appreciate every bit of support on this issue-I realize it's just a TV program but I am always concerned to speak against violence. It's not the abusive relationship that bothers me-hey, it was good drama, but to show the abuser reclaiming her victim and the two of them living happily ever after would be a bad thing. It would validate the notion that it's okay to terrorize someone into a relationship. It would be like rewarding Isabelle for her violence.

One thing I have not saw addressed is that no one ever said to Isabelle that she could make up her own mind-she kept saying she needed Shawn to stop her from doing bad things. Why in tarnation didn't Richard or Shawn tell her she could decide for herself? She doesn't need someone to stop her, and in the end Shawn not only didn't stop her, she put him in a coma. Since Shawn was only staying with Isabelle to keep her from hurting people, there's no way he'll ever consider going back to her. He never did love her and I think even if he doesn't agree with Jordan, he'll stick to him tighter than a tick, because with Jordan he's safe from Isabelle.

Don't forget to go to the poll-Do You Want To See Shawn Marry Isabelle and vote no. Let's let the producers know we don't want abusers rewarded for their violence.