USA Network Forums > "The Starzl Mutation" Talkback Thread

Bubba_Bridges

Aug 6 2006, 07:43 PM

Hi Bubba here, I thought we could use this thread during and after tonight's episode entitled "The Starzl Mutation". Just 15 mintues till showtime.

Sedden

Aug 6 2006, 08:43 PM

All i can say is this show is throwing me all which way. No questions truely answered.... Hopefully, the army dude they talking to now answers all the questions or al least tell shawn smoke more of the damn cigar or something

character11

Aug 6 2006, 08:46 PM

This show has been going crazy, that's for sure

Sedden

Aug 6 2006, 08:59 PM

Still many questions unanswered. Sure, it seems the future sent the 4400 back to basically breed thousands of 4400s it seems but whats with this whole thing about Richard leading the 4400 into a preemptive strike. Also seems no matter what shawn does marrying isabelle it not going to stop anything.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:01 PM

Oh yes, now it's getting interesting and that's not until next week. Has anyone else felt like the show was in a sort of holding pattern until the Collier character returned?

Sedden

Aug 6 2006, 09:02 PM

Honestly, i think the episode was a big letdown. It really didn't answer that many questions. The futures motives aren't quite clear yet...

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:04 PM

and the way we were given the "preemptive strike" dialogue, it makes me think that Richard was the bad guy in it... especially the way Shawn was talking to him and pleading with him... Plus, if the gov't is making other 4400 ability humans, I would think that is something that would worry every 4400 that remembers being sick because of Ryland... and a "preemptive strike" wouldn't seem like a bad idea to anyone, much less Richard.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:05 PM

The only thing that wasn't a letdown was the end. I really think that all the episodes until now could have been done in a few shows.

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:09 PM

So ok, since 4400's mating with people with the starzl mutation means there babies produce promison. Does that mean that all those kids would be just like Isabelle? Would they be unkillable, and all powerful. Could Rylund be doing the right thing and killing the people with the strazle mutation and saving everyone from those kids taking over the world?

Sedden

Aug 6 2006, 09:11 PM

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Oh yes, now it's getting interesting and that's not until next week. Has anyone else felt like the show was in a sort of holding pattern until the Collier character returned?

Honestly, im starting to think the future got Kyle to kill collier so he could deal with isabelle because it seems to be that Tom is never going to do it. If Tom would have done what the future wanted, this whole promincin enhanced super soldiers would have put gap into its production because they wouldn't have isabelle and need to get the promincin from someone else.

Also there's either another future person in the past giving Ryland info or isabelle was give the knowledge.

Something is going on.

boooey

Aug 6 2006, 09:13 PM

this episode really didnt answer any crucial questions, and my god the commercials are just killing me.. i think the show is like 25 minutes long after all the freakin commercials..
Don't get me wrong, i love the 4400, but so far the previews have been better than the actual episodes..

Sedden

Aug 6 2006, 09:15 PM

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So ok, since 4400's mating with people with the starzl mutation means there babies produce promison. Does that mean that all those kids would be just like Isabelle? Would they be unkillable, and all powerful. Could Rylund be doing the right thing and killing the people with the strazle mutation and saving everyone from those kids taking over the world?

Promisin reacts differently to everyone. Honestly unless Rylands company finds a way to manipulate the promisin to give a person a specific ability alot of the people who volunteer won't be much help. I mean what good a soldier who can make plants grow, see the future(somewhat), see dead people lol

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:21 PM

Yes, but you have to consider that the only other person who was born with the ability to produce promison is isabelle. And look at her, she is almost unkillable, and basically all powerful. If this is what happens to everyone then there could be a hole bunch of very powerful humans running around, and probably ruling the world.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:22 PM

I think Matt (the guy she killed) gave her the information. Remember, he wasn't a 4400 - and I never really knew how he came into play- and all Isabelle's information seemed to come from him. But yeah, the whole Starzl thing, Ryland had to have some sort of other future person. They've been working on it for a year? Crazy! Somehow, Isabelle is helping the "other side", but she has Sean by her side so that they as the powerful duo can do something if it goes awry...???

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 09:25 PM

So there have been other 4400 babies? I wish they'd have mentioned that before.
Did I miss something?

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:30 PM

No i don't think there have been. At least not that i know of. But i just thought of something very interesting. Does anyone know what Lilly's grandmother died of? And if you do when she died? Because if she had Cancer and she lived in the seattle area then she would have had to have had the cancer treatment from the malfuncting machines. So if this is true that would mean that Lilly had the starzl mutation and her and richard had isabelle which would make Isabelle the first child born from a parent with the starzl mutation. Furthermore that is what might have tipped Ryland off on the hole thing and is why they think is such a threat.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:31 PM

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Yes, but you have to consider that the only other person who was born with the ability to produce promison is isabelle. And look at her, she is almost unkillable, and basically all powerful. If this is what happens to everyone then there could be a hole bunch of very powerful humans running around, and probably ruling the world.

Which would mean Lily had the starzl mutation because Richard produces promicin. The thing is, Isabelle was pretty much a naive, clueless child until she was controlled by Matthew.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 09:33 PM

Then how do they know that the babies of 4400's mating with starzl mutation carriers produce promicin?
(did I ask that right?)

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 09:35 PM

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The thing is, Isabelle was pretty much a naive, clueless child until she was controlled by Matthew.

Isabelle was killing before she was born.

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:37 PM

Yes you did. John Schaffner, the other soldier in the program to produce super soldiers (the same program the killer from tonights episode was from) said that if a 4400 and someone with the starzl mutation mated and had children those kids would produce promison. That is why the killer was killing the starzl mutation people because he thought they were a threat to produce these promison producing kids.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:40 PM

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Furthermore that is what might have tipped Ryland off on the hole thing and is why they think is such a threat.

But Ryland didn't even see a grown up Isabelle. I just want to know how much Ryland knew. Lily and Richard ran from them forever. They didn't even know if Richard had an ability. He never took the promicin inhibitor past the time in quarantine, neither did lily or isabelle. I don't see how isabelle clued Ryland in.

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:45 PM

Ok well heres my conspiracy theory. Isabelle is an amazing person, the most amazing person alive. So therefore they would want to know how she could possibly get like she did. So in doing some research they may have noticed that Lily had the starzl mutation and richard had 4400 abilities. Also if anyone noticed Lily never had a power, so maybe this is why they took her in the first place because she had the starzl mutation.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 09:52 PM

But how do they know this if there haven't been any babies?

Swaginator

Aug 6 2006, 09:54 PM

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But how do they know this if there haven't been any babies?

How should i know? I'm just basing all of my speculation off of what that guy said.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The thing is, Isabelle was pretty much a naive, clueless child until she was controlled by Matthew.

Isabelle was killing before she was born.

Yes, but it was a defense mechanism... and I guess we've seen Isabelle only killing in "defense" the entire time. Now that's interesting...

character11

Aug 6 2006, 10:12 PM

Isabelle did go to Ryland... she somehow knew about him, who he was... and didn't see him as a threat. I really wonder what Matthew told her about herself!!! And why would the future create a 4400 to combat other 4400s? wait... The army has been working on promicin for a year.. would they have come up with "promicin" on their own, no 4400s? And if so, the army created the people who would help destroy the world... then they discovered the starzl connection. And they realized that the only way to stop what they created was to create their own starzl person.

LoveThe4400

Aug 6 2006, 10:36 PM

Even if Lily's grandmother had the mutation, she could not have given it to Lily because Lily's mom would have already been a grown woman by this time and probably Lily was already born. Didn't they say that the machine malfunction occured in 1969. So how could Lily get the mutation from her grandmother. Don't jump to hasty conclusions here.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 10:41 PM

It sounds like they're insinuating that there have been babies.
That has been kind of an obvious hole in the storyline.
The 4400 returned too long ago for none of them to have reproduced.
And no one on the show has mentioned it that I remember.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 11:13 PM

well, it doesn't have to just be lily's grandmother. We assume because of the connection to Richard. It could well have been lily's mother. But... Richard disappeared in 1951... which means that the original Lily hadn't had children yet. So, if she got cancer and had it treated... It's possible... although I'd put my money on Lily's mother.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 11:18 PM

We're really not even sure about Isabelle's parantage.

Bamby76

Aug 6 2006, 11:25 PM

A lot of people seem to be concerned with this 4400 having babies and not being shown in the show. I think the writers are assuming that we must have thought that after 2 years of being back they would have had babies, and obviously there wouldn't have been a need to mention them, unless they were special too.

character11

Aug 6 2006, 11:27 PM

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We're really not even sure about Isabelle's parantage.

Well, if we're going to be talking about surety, then we're really not sure that the 4400 are good, that Dr. Burkhoff is the father of the 4400 (which seems to be false now)... so many things we are not sure of.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 11:44 PM

Right but we were referring Isabelle's parantage when we were discussing who might have had the Starzl mutation (because she is an offspring that produces promicin).
I didn't just say that out of the blue.

Dobie

Aug 6 2006, 11:48 PM

OK, I just rewatched the episode.
There have been babies from the 4400.
Diana said they have been tracking them.

gdogg24

Aug 6 2006, 11:52 PM

One thing i enjoyed it seems that maybe jordan will prove to be the isabelle equalizer that she's needed. Already in the trailer no fear when speaking to her he was almost like Brando in the Godfather!! "You lied to me Isabelle"

Sedden

Aug 7 2006, 12:06 AM

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One thing i enjoyed it seems that maybe jordan will prove to be the isabelle equalizer that she's needed. Already in the trailer no fear when speaking to her he was almost like Brando in the Godfather!! "You lied to me Isabelle"

Actually in the preview, Isabelle almost seems worried and im the new maia's dairy entry it mentions Isabelle will be afraid. Honestly im thinking is, FINALLY. it isn't that Isabelle is a bad character, its just that Isabelle personality is ANNOYING and she needs to be put in her place

tomboy

Aug 7 2006, 12:27 AM

this season is throwing me in a whirlwind of mass confusion! I don't have answered questions, just confusion! there is too much sh#t going on to grasp it all. Next week better be better, i was let down w/ this episode, maybe they need new writers??? I love this show, but what the hell is up??? I feel like all this is draaaaaaaaaaaging like a soap opera. The fact everyone is STILL speculating, means more questions, tonites episode didnn;t cut it.

Sandra51

Aug 7 2006, 12:50 AM

Diana did mention that certain 4400 have had babies (b/c they've been tracking them) but she also mentioned none have abilities..
one thing i think i missed, diana had mentioned "that explains why the 4400 were sent back in the year.."
what explains it? is it the whole starzl mutation thing..?

i'm so glad jordan is back!! i've been waiting for this episode the whole season! and next sunday's episode seems even better, it looks like kyle's coming back too!! now our questions will definitely begin to get answered..

another thing, it seems no matter what choice shawn makes he's doomed. the strike richard incites would make sense... i mean, when tom asked ryland "are you really planning on using these soldiers as a defence to the US or against the 4400" his response "is there a difference?" seemed to explain a lot.
we've all wondered whether isabelle is evil or not. it's been mentioned, on the show, that she was sent back to eliminate the 4400. And now she is donating promicin to ryland who will use it to create super soldiers to kill the 4400... seems like either way her plan will be achieved. Only other thing that seems evident is that if shawn does in fact marry isabelle, she'll turn him evil..

p.s. - sorry for the quotes, i know tom and ryland said something along those lines.. the point is the same though

-Sandra

Marilyn

Aug 7 2006, 12:58 AM

Are you kidding? This episode was one of the better ones this season, in fact, the last minute of this show was better than the entire season so far. Hopefully with their main characters back in play (Collier, Kyle) the show will go back uphill.

Quote:

this season is throwing me in a whirlwind of mass confusion! I don't have answered questions, just confusion! there is too much sh#t going on to grasp it all. Next week better be better, i was let down w/ this episode, maybe they need new writers??? I love this show, but what the hell is up??? I feel like all this is draaaaaaaaaaaging like a soap opera. The fact everyone is STILL speculating, means more questions, tonites episode didnn;t cut it.

onebusymomma

Aug 7 2006, 03:31 AM

I agree, this episode was a good one. I don't see Shawn as becoming evil when he kills RIchard, it is in response to his starting a war and building an army of 4400's. He has to emove the leader from power. I didn't see any joy in him at having to do that. However, the kid is clearly screwed no matter what choice he makes with Isabelle.

froggirl80

Aug 7 2006, 06:17 AM

i just caught the show last night & it is pretty interesting. never seen anything like it before. Good story line & Tom Baldwin's kinda hot. God bless

LeadingLady

Aug 7 2006, 07:24 AM

Well I am more confused than ever! It doesn't make sense. So if the whole purpose for sending the 4400 back was to have them mate with those who had the Starzl mutation, what was all of that about taking Maia and the children further back in time to BEFORE the Starzl mutation? And I thought Berkoff was the father of the 44000 but it seems that Ryland's team would be the father of it all. What was the purpose of Berkooff's experiment if the government was already doing that and making non4400's with abilities? And is Isabel good or bad then? Her purpose was to kill all of the 4400's but instead she gave Ryland promicin so that they could kill off the 4400? So she's doing her purpose after all? And does that make the 4400 the bad ones? The catastrophe? If so then that makes Ryland the good guys for killing them all?? This is all confusing! And I don't see what the purpose is of killing off the 4400 when you still have non4400's with abilities walking around to mate with the Starzl mutation people. What's the purpose of killing off the 4400's when you still have non4400's with abilities?? It makes no sense. Richard waring against Ryland would seem a good thing to do trying to protect the 4400's so Shawn would have to become evil then, but how can marrying Isabel make him become evil? Even if they did succeed in killing off the original 4400's, you would still have non4400's with powers walking around they would just all work for the government but some are bound to rebel and go off on their own or sell some of the promicin and eventually you will still have nonmilitary with abilities. So killing off the original 4400's doesn't solve anything. It also seems like the government would have made 4400 abilities WITHOUT the 4400 coming back. None of it makes sense to me. LOL! And they have pretty much taken Maia out of the show.

Sprout0912

Aug 7 2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Ok well heres my conspiracy theory. Isabelle is an amazing person, the most amazing person alive. So therefore they would want to know how she could possibly get like she did. So in doing some research they may have noticed that Lily had the starzl mutation and richard had 4400 abilities. Also if anyone noticed Lily never had a power, so maybe this is why they took her in the first place because she had the starzl mutation.

Ok, so if Swag and you other guys are right about Lily being taken because of the Starzl Mutation (btw, I was thinking the same thing), then that would mean that the "good" PFTF knew about Izzy, and THAT would mean that Sarah was from the "bad" future faction (and was merely posing as one of the "good" ones) that she told Tom about, since she said that Izzy was the unexpected factor in the whole 4400 thing! Get what I'm saying....

Even so, I still don't believe that whatever is in the syringe will kill Izzy... I still believe that it's some sort of mind control drug or something that would make Izzy "useful" to the Future Faction.

I still am not convinced that Izzy is bad. Severely misguided, yes, but bad/evil.... no.

onebusymomma

Aug 7 2006, 08:29 AM

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Even so, I still don't believe that whatever is in the syringe will kill Izzy... I still believe that it's some sort of mind control drug or something that would make Izzy "useful" to the Future Faction.

I still am not convinced that Izzy is bad. Severely misguided, yes, but bad/evil.... no.

I agree, there is alot of grey area in this show, nothing is black and white. My thought is that the actions of the future people (sending the 4400 back) caused the catastrophe in the first place. Someone playing where they shouldn't have and it all went wrong. Lily's grandmother may not have been the source of the mutation, it could have been Lily's mother. If she passed from cancer, that would explain why she didn't take a bigger part in Heidi's life and why Lily didn't seek her out whe she returned. Just a thought.

JaJa

Aug 7 2006, 09:53 AM

(...fighting my way through the commericals every 3-4 minutes of showtime is super tedious!) Isabelle was none too happy to see Jordon back in the environment! And neither was Shawn, or did I miss something? I am delighted that Jordan is finally back and even more so now that Isabelle has effectively diluted herself! It is true that absolute power corrupts absolutely. "One" Isabelle is problematic on a variety of levels, but a small army of Isabells pretty much guarantees they'll destroy each other. And now we know war is inevitable, for the good or bad, and all of this makes for a very interesting storyline - the possibilities are endless!

Sprout0912

Aug 7 2006, 09:55 AM

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I agree, there is alot of grey area in this show, nothing is black and white. My thought is that the actions of the future people (sending the 4400 back) caused the catastrophe in the first place. Someone playing where they shouldn't have and it all went wrong. Lily's grandmother may not have been the source of the mutation, it could have been Lily's mother. If she passed from cancer, that would explain why she didn't take a bigger part in Heidi's life and why Lily didn't seek her out whe she returned. Just a thought.

That would make a lot of sense as far as Lily, and subsequently Izzy, is concerned...

irulan

Aug 7 2006, 11:54 AM

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So if the whole purpose for sending the 4400 back was to have them mate with those who had the Starzl mutation, what was all of that about taking Maia and the children further back in time to BEFORE the Starzl mutation?

I don't think the whole purpose of taking the 4400 was to have them mate with Starzl mutated people. The 4400 were taken and sent back to use their powers to change the future. So, Maia's ability to see the future can change the future - which was reinforced by her being taken a second time and sent further back. The Starzl mutation has more to do with where they were returned, so by having kids that can produce promicin they propogate a lasting and sustained change.

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And I thought Berkoff was the father of the 44000 but it seems that Ryland's team would be the father of it all. What was the purpose of Berkooff's experiment if the government was already doing that and making non4400's with abilities?

I think Burkhoff is the father of the the 4400. We haven't seen anything to support this - but I think he's different than the super soldiers. His experiment taught his body to produce promicin on it's own. I think that they pump the soldiers full of promicin like steroids or something, but their body doesn't produce it on it's own like Burkhoff's now does.
They didn't mentioned the soldiers going through anything like what we saw Burkhoff go through and partly the massive amount of promicin Isabelle produced seems more like the amounts you'd need for sustained dosage.

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And I don't see what the purpose is of killing off the 4400 when you still have non4400's with abilities walking around to mate with the Starzl mutation people. What's the purpose of killing off the 4400's when you still have non4400's with abilities??

The 4400 were people speicifically chosen and sent back with a specific purpose to create a specific future. If that wasn't the future you wanted, destroying it would be enough. You might not care about the future you were creating as long as it wasn't that one. Or by destroying the 4400s you'd be trying to create a different specific future. And if my theory is right, if you killed all the 4400 you wouldn't have non4400s with abilibites for long because you'd have run out of promicin to give them.
Also, if my theory is right then I don't think non4400s that have kids with the Stazl mutated would produce a baby that can produce promicin. So again, before too long you wouldn't have a population generating it's own promicin.

karasoth

Aug 7 2006, 04:24 PM

Hey kids New person round the forum here but their are a few things I want to roll out based on reading this thread

Burkhoff:

Who the heck do you think stole Burkhoff's files and what not? between that and their having a source of pure promicin (I think synthetic promicin may be more problematic then the real stuff to work with) allowed them to jump ahead.

Isabelle:
She hasn't developed emotionally...So she isn't evil she is just emotionally a two year old. A two year old who can well do whatever she wants because no one can discipline her.

Starlz mutation:
Mayhaps say some point in the future their is a real horrific problem in the future and the solution is people with "abilities". The problem is they can't produce enough people to do it

enter in breeding....

thats just a thought

Bubba_Bridges

Aug 7 2006, 05:06 PM

Hi Bubba here,

lechuck

Aug 7 2006, 06:16 PM

I don't believe the children from Starlz & 4400 will have isabelle abilities. All through the show we have seen that promicin has different effects on different people so as isabelle. Children of Richard and Lily was special so the "so called" bad future people picked her.

About being bad or good: I don't think we can ever tell who is good or who is bad with the information we have. Real good future people might have hacked the 4400 project with isabelle. But why create other 4400 by using Isabelle to kill the other 4400? There is no end to this vicious circle.

Dennis Ryland definitely has connection to future people who created Isabelle. Maybe since the time he forced the NTAC doctor to use PI.

I think Jordan Collier will be the opposite to Isabelle with his amazing powers that we don't know. But all of his getting shot, lost and returned thing is an unsolvable question.