He_Who_Knows
Jul 3 2006, 05:10 AM
There has been much speculation about the physics of time as it applies to the 4400 and the fact that they tend to create a logic circle. I believe that the answer is that the past can only be changed by accident, ala “Back to the Future”. In these three movies the past was changed by accident (with the exception of Back to the future 2 in witch Biff goes back in time to make himself rich but doc explained what happened there with the whole tangent universe diagram) and there for the resultant change was accidental.
While this is more plausible than the Rich Biff universe of BttF2, it still creates a paradox because while you can accidentally change some one else’s past with out a logic circle forming you can not change your own past in such a way that would erase you from history because how can you accidentally do something if you don’t exist. Enter the 4400 they are accidentally changing there future (witch would be the past to the future people) for someone else. They cant form a logic loop because they can’t self eliminate. For them they are not changing the past they are changing there future keep in mind that for all of the 4400 this is their future distant future in some cases such as Maia who came from 60 years ago. Her past isn’t changing only her future is so even if they succeed in stopping the “bad thing,” what ever it may be, from happening her past will not change she will still exist in 2006 and will still be able to see the future.
This raises another question, if the Bad Thing doesn’t happen the future people will have no reason to abduct the 4400. Yes they will I put forth 2 reasons. 1st, say that I am the guy in charge of the time machine in the year 4400 or what ever year it was that took them if I know from the history books that these 4400 people suddenly appeared at this lace and time I’m gona make sure that it happens cause I like history the way it is and I don’t want to find out what will happen if I don’t do my job. 2nd, the fact that one of the 4400 snapped Dr. Kevin Burkhoff back to his senses whom we now know is the father of the 4400 tech. Suggest that the 4400 are a self fulfilling prophecy here is my estimate of the new time line when the 4400 have done there job and changed the future.
- 4,400 People go missing never to be seen again, assumed the result of either kidnapping or run away this is recorded in police reports.
- In 2004 the 4400 all reappear miraculously this is recorded in history books and more police reports
- The acts of the 4400 among other things awaken Dr. Burkhoff who discovers Promicin
- Over the next few years they create controversy and eventually spawn a war that causes a fundamental shift in the way geopolitics and federal legislation occur in addition to the many minor effects they have on the individual lives they each touch. As well as changing major world factors such as the population of nations the evolution of humanity and the raising of human potential to a new high.
- The effects of the 4400 are felt for generations and the research started by Dr. Burkhoff is completed after several generations of experimentation. Because of the influence of the 4400 the “Bad Thing” never happens.
- Time travel is invented. Because it is well documented in the historical records of NTAC and the federal government as to what exactly happened and who, where, and when each 4400 was taken the creators of the time travel and 4400 tech need only follow the written history book like instructions to ensure the continued prosperity (and existence) of the new happy future.
- Logic loop averted
There not doing it in the new future to change the past but rather to make sure the new history doesn’t change, because they know according to history books that if they don’t abduct the 4400, the world will be much worse off.
If any one sees a hole in my logic, by all means tell me. For how can we corect a mistake if no one points it out?
photochick
Jul 3 2006, 11:37 AM
A correction, Burkoff did not discover promicin... The NTAC doctor did. (the one who shot himself) He also developed the inhibitor. Burkoff simply was given the file and moved on from there.
SareEru
Jul 3 2006, 01:08 PM
I like this self-fulfilling prophecy theory, yet, there is a minor flaw with this theory. If the people of the future are watching the past to make sure everything happens according to history, then how do they know that some generation further in the future isn't responsible for the time travel? Who then becomes responsible for making sure that past events take place? The earlier generation or the later generation? For example, some future historian from the year 2076 makes the mistake of assuming that his generation is responsible for a certain event in history, when in fact it was originally a historian from 2126. If the earlier historian tries to force the events to unfold, he then interferes with later historian's duties, creating chaos.
So my questions are, with linear time, how can any person serve in the postion of timeline regulator? Who then is chosen to fulfill the prophecy? And how does the future know if it has chosen correctly?
jarnon
Jul 3 2006, 04:01 PM
In some sci-fi books I've read, the time traveler leaves notes or hints in the past, that survive until he finds them in his own time. They may tell him what he has to do, or give him vital info. They're written so nobody else can understand them.
photochick
Jul 3 2006, 05:37 PM
LIke I said, like the game "the Journeyman Project". Somewhere they have to have a record of the timeline to know how they have changed it. (in the Journeyman game you travelled to prehistoric times to retrieve the info) Maybe the 4400 have already done what they were supposed to do. They changed the future and now the group of the opposite side thinks they need to change things, not knowing that the first group already has changed things.
He_Who_Knows
Jul 4 2006, 04:04 AM
Quote:
A correction, Burkoff did not discover promicin... The NTAC doctor did. (the one who shot himself) He also developed the inhibitor. Burkoff simply was given the file and moved on from there.
Your right, I goofed, but you get what I was saying right?
He_Who_Knows
Jul 4 2006, 04:07 AM
Quote:
I like this self-fulfilling prophecy theory, yet, there is a minor flaw with this theory. If the people of the future are watching the past to make sure everything happens according to history, then how do they know that some generation further in the future isn't responsible for the time travel? Who then becomes responsible for making sure that past events take place? The earlier generation or the later generation? For example, some future historian from the year 2076 makes the mistake of assuming that his generation is responsible for a certain event in history, when in fact it was originally a historian from 2126. If the earlier historian tries to force the events to unfold, he then interferes with later historian's duties, creating chaos.
So my questions are, with linear time, how can any person serve in the postion of timeline regulator? Who then is chosen to fulfill the prophecy? And how does the future know if it has chosen correctly?
Have you seen the new Dr. Who yet? If you have I got two words for you BAD WOLF. The people from the future most likely left themselves notes in history probably not as obvious as the BAD WOLF scenario but applied very much the same way, I don’t know if you have ever herd the phrase "Killroy was here" but it was very much like the BAD WOLF thing in Dr. Who. The phrase popped up all over the place in the 40's and 50's during WW2 there where reports of solders landing on uninhabited islands in the south pacific and they would find the phrase already written on a wall or carved in the face of a cliff. It was everywhere. The occurrence of the phrase died down shortly after the beginning of the Vietnam War. Granted I don't think that the writers of The 4400 will suggest that, "Killroy Was here was the future leaving it's self a note but who's to say they wont implement a similar strategy? Maybe the fact that there are 4400 abducties was meant to suggest that the original future people who abducted them are in the year 4400.
He_Who_Knows
Jul 4 2006, 04:24 AM
Quote:
In some sci-fi books I've read, the time traveler leaves notes or hints in the past, that survive until he finds them in his own time. They may tell him what he has to do, or give him vital info. They're written so nobody else can understand them.
Quote:
LIke I said, like the game "the Journeyman Project". Somewhere they have to have a record of the timeline to know how they have changed it. (in the Journeyman game you travelled to prehistoric times to retrieve the info) Maybe the 4400 have already done what they were supposed to do. They changed the future and now the group of the opposite side thinks they need to change things, not knowing that the first group already has changed things.
I totally agree, this is very much like the BAD WOLF strategy used in Dr. Who, although I never considered that the new future might not think it worked, although the writers as much as said so in the episode where they tried to send Maia to the 17th century. Perhaps in preventing one catastrophe the 4400 caused another one? If so there would still be a reason to create the 4400 projects in the new future. It's been suggested that the past can not be changed if something bad was meant to happen to man it is going to happen and can not be stopped. An example of this would be if you where to say go back in time and shoot Hitler when he was a child. One course history could take is that Hitler's father would be so distraught buy the untimely death of his son that he starts a political movement similar to the nazis dedicated to punishing the people he believes to be responsible for killing young Adolph, namely Jews. This theory would propose that history is objective and if you attempt to change it, time will correct it's self, usurping you every effort.
Archieve
Jul 4 2006, 11:44 AM
Quote:
A correction, Burkoff did not discover promicin... The NTAC doctor did. (the one who shot himself) He also developed the inhibitor. Burkoff simply was given the file and moved on from there.
Maybe, I have missed something, but I thought the doctor heard some noise, while in his car and someone killed him.
I didn't know that he shot himself.
Tzvi
Jul 4 2006, 08:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
A correction, Burkoff did not discover promicin... The NTAC doctor did. (the one who shot himself) He also developed the inhibitor. Burkoff simply was given the file and moved on from there.
Maybe, I have missed something, but I thought the doctor heard some noise, while in his car and someone killed him.
I didn't know that he shot himself.
According to the commetary on the 2nd season DVD, Dr. Hudson was killed. This is aluded to by Tom in the last episode (To Ryland: "Did you have a hand in that, too?"), and Diana (To Tom: "Do you really think it was a suicide?"). It was made to look like suicide. The commentary admits that many viewers did not get it (including me).
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