USA Network Forums > Cena's comments about his fans and detractors.

FanNBham

Mar 26 2006, 08:09 AM

From Cena's blog on Myspace:

http://www.myspace.com/johncenasspace

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Thursday, March 23, 2006

just another day......

Hey guys just wanted to get some feed back on the different pics that are up there. I see that wwe stuff all the time and wanted to give you guys something special. And for those that think I dont read the comment board. I do! How else would i know about all the different opinions goin on. Im leaving for our last live event run before wm 22. I just finished a canadian media tour for wm. I talk a lot to media, to critics and to people who have self proclaimed knowledge of the business that is wwe. Its so funny to me sometimes to hear an "educated" reporter or fan tell me what is happenning in our business. There seems to be a lot of talk in wrestler university about me "turning heel". This IS whats going to happen. The "smart" people will keep plottting, planning, and conjuring up scenarios that they feel are right, dont get me wrong every opinion matters but there is a huge difference between opinion and fact, I will keep being me. So while the so called 'experts' can tell me what Im doing for the next 6 months. I only worry about today. I am not a 'babyface' or a 'heel'. I am me. That is why people tell me to [censored] off, and that is why people are willing to stand up for me. I love my job, and my life, i am blessed to be myself and I try to let the fans experience many things that go on with me that most superstars dont. I am not ashamed of who I am, where I came from, or what I have become. These are the last words ill write before the most important day of my short career. I guess what im trying to say is, enjoy this. Enjoy it as much as I do. Some times people dont have all the answers and sometimes there is no right and wrong and you just have to live the moment and enjoy it, for whatever it brings. I know ive already said this but thank you matt, who has his own myspace under matt cena, you are a true inspiration to me to 'never quit'. Thanks to dan, john fabulous, steve, and boog, and to mom dukes to. I love you guys. Dave nock, you have been like a second father to me and i would go to war with you any day of the week, thanks for your help in gettin ready for mania. To all those supporting me I WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN! you have my word. win loose or draw i will be my best for april 2nd! hope you guys enjoy, and check out the picture of the awa ring that i used to have. I also had the Barron Von Raschke doll whos hand came in the claw position! The Claw! Sweet! Till after the dance!

HUSTLE. LOYATLY. RESPECT.

I like the direction that Cena is going and am glad that as of now, he's planning to remain the WWE's top Face. I'm looking forward to Cena's biggest day in his career -- I hope it rocks.

lilly39

Mar 26 2006, 09:39 AM

Cena sucks and i hope Triple H kicks his ass big time.

Selene

Mar 26 2006, 01:05 PM

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Cena sucks and i hope Triple H kicks his ass big time.

I totally agree.

FanNBham

Mar 27 2006, 05:41 PM

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Cena sucks and i hope Triple H kicks his ass big time.

I totally agree.

At least now you're saying 'I hope". I would love for both of you to explain why Cena sucks and actually have valid arguments. I bet you can't do it.

lilly39

Mar 27 2006, 06:45 PM

Yes i can for one he does the samething over and over, he is so cocky and he can't even wrestle. He sucks and i know Triple H will kick his punk ass and im looking foreword to seeing it .

FanNBham

Mar 27 2006, 07:05 PM

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Yes i can for one he does the samething over and over, he is so cocky and he can't even wrestle. He sucks and i know Triple H will kick his punk ass and im looking foreword to seeing it .

But Triple H does the same thing over and over. He cheats, he does a pedigree and when that doesn't work he gets out a sledgehammer. He does the same thing over and over. All wrestlers do the same thing over and over.

As far as HHH kicking Cena's punk "you know what" -- yeah, that's bound to happen. What's going to be great is seeing Cena still beat HHH and making HHH tap out to the STFU! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

I'm still waiting for you to make a valid argument.

jstewart

Mar 27 2006, 08:37 PM

I hope that John Cena last the WWE Champion a while longer on the WWE--he is doing a good job at it. He also wrestles very well with other wrestlers that take him on. Good competition!!

RKOchick

Mar 27 2006, 10:10 PM

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Yes i can for one he does the samething over and over, he is so cocky and he can't even wrestle. He sucks and i know Triple H will kick his punk ass and im looking foreword to seeing it .

But Triple H does the same thing over and over. He cheats, he does a pedigree and when that doesn't work he gets out a sledgehammer. He does the same thing over and over. All wrestlers do the same thing over and over.

As far as HHH kicking Cena's punk "you know what" -- yeah, that's bound to happen. What's going to be great is seeing Cena still beat HHH and making HHH tap out to the STFU! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

I'm still waiting for you to make a valid argument.

You Your right. Cena should make Triple H tap to the STFU just like what he did to Edge

POWERade

Mar 30 2006, 12:44 AM

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Cena sucks and i hope Triple H kicks his ass big time.

I totally agree.

At least now you're saying 'I hope". I would love for both of you to explain why Cena sucks and actually have valid arguments. I bet you can't do it.

ooo ooo ooo... can i jump in?
thanx

why does Cena suck? well, basically...

- His in-ring skills are why. i mean, maybe the wwe is telling him what to do and what not to do in the ring? possibly, but not 100% i'd guess.

-He has shown a very limited repertoire of moves on tv (and the couple of times I've seen him live), and the ones that he does have are poorly executed.

-The FU is not the worst finishing move in recent years, but definately one of the worst.

-I thought "pumps" went out ten years ago... ?

-Character (tv character, not personality, i don't even know the guy) I know that it's all just fiction... but it's simply dumb to claim to be from the mean streets, and then release that dvd showing all the nicities of home. I'm seeing clips of his dvd's Christmas footage, thinking to myself "dam, I wish I had has Christmas' that good when I was a kid." I don't consider myself from "the streets", but judgin by the home video footage, Cena has better Christmas' than me! (oh yeah, and a nicer house, and toys, etc... and all this constitutes being from the streets how exactly?)
After growing up in the ghetto myself, it makes me sick seeing Cena proclaim to be in touch with it, knowing he's so far from it.
What made characters like Stone Cold and Kurt Angle great is that the characters were based more on those ppl than fiction. Stone Cold said "What you see on tv is still me, just with the volume turned waay up" And most people from Foley to SCSA to Angle will say that's what makes a character great... instead of mediocre like Cena.
I guess if Cena was proclaiming to be from the mean streets of MIDDLE CLASS new jersey, it would be a little better. But Cena, like... Boogeyman, is just not a buyable character because it's so obviously a sham.
They shouldda just brought back the Mean Street Posse and stuck Cena with them.

-What's this? 3 years on the show and he gets the f'n title?
When you have people like Benoit and Eddie (r.i.p.) who busted their ass and have 50 times the talent of Cena... and it took them nearly 20 years to get the top titles. Now In comes Cena, 3 years on tv, sucky wrestling, mediocre (at best) character... basically the flavor-of-the-month, and he is handed the title so soon?
It's almost a case of cheapening the title. (but not quite as bad as David Arquette)

-Someone made the comment of HHH doing the "same thing" over and over again. Well, that's about 97% true. BUT, anyone who has been watching long enough knows that HHH is a top dawg. HHH has probably forgotten more about wrestling than most of us will ever know. He has proven himself, over the years, to be an enigma in the ring. As JR has put it many times, the top guys like that find the moves that work best for them, and perfect the execution of those moves... which is about where HHH is. However, in a big time match, you WILL see HHH deviate from that, and throw out some [censored] that makes you go "DAAAAYUMM". (Like his fall-down irish whip into the turnbuckle that he came out with a few years ago)
... but Cena? same old blah routine from day one. no, wait! he did add the STF.... and did he start with pumping up the sneakers, or did that come later?
point being, HHH has proven his ring saavy time and time again, to the point where he has some select moves that he has perfected to cause maximum damage to his opponents.
...Cena has proven that his list of moves is small and sucks... time and time again.
...Furthermore, HHH is one of 3 TEN TIME HEAVYWEIGHT Champions.
Cena is a flavor-of-the-month that has been around too long, and the flavor is now sour.

-and Finally, I must adress the Cena/JBL feud from quite some time ago.
EVERY single match those two had really sucked. I almost fell asleep at the show in Memphis when they were wrestling (sorry JBL).
Then, when Cena went to Raw, I noticed his initial fueds there had sucky matches... And at the same time, whoever it was that JBL was feuding with on Smackdown, they were having BADASS matches. Then, I started noticng how good of matches JBL was having.
That's when it dawned on me that Cena sucks, and that's why the JBL/Cena feud sucked.
'cuz JBL's matches after that were GREAT... while Cena's matches stayed sucky.

I will admit, when Cena first was promoted to the top card status, I was, more or less, on the band wagon myself. I was even known to tell people "You can't see me" quite a bit...
so what happened? I started paying attention to his wrestling and in-ring talent (or lack thereof). Once the hype slacked off for me (which didn't take too long), I started noticing how bad he really does suck.

Now, in all fairness to the guy, I mean, he is sticking with it thru, what could be considered, a tuff time. And I liked how he adressed the boos, etc on Raw several months ago - that was really good. It's obvious that the guy has heart and determination and loves the business. And, even with the majority of the fans "turning" on him, he hasn't been wishy-washy about his character - to me, that shows determination and fortitude.
And yes, I already know there's no way in hell I personally could last 2 minutes in the ring against him.

Bottom line:
sucky wrestling performance, sucky character.

Any questions? lol

FanNBham

Mar 30 2006, 08:23 AM

^ Congratulations on at least explaining why you "think" Cena sucks. However, just about everything you've said is all opinion and a lot of it borders on stereotypical and the having just jumped on the bandwagon or the Cena Haters.

1. In ring ability -- While you hint at it, Cena's moveset has indeed been limited from Management and he's been told what style and what moves to use. If you go back to his debut in the WWE or get to see some tapes of his OVW days it's clear he has plenty of in-ring skills. Top Face Champions always have a limited move-set. HBK is a prime example. Cena executes his move with precision. I don't know where you've come up with the idea that he's sloppy. RVD is sloppy. Cena is polished.

2. Saying Cena can't have grown up appreciating Rap and Hip Hop because he didn't grow up in a ghetto is borderline racism in itself. Cena's never claimed to be anything other than he is. He's a middle-class kid from a working class family that dreamed big and he's made it now. If you listen to Cena's album He doesn't pretend he's some thug from the mean streets -- It's all about a middle-class suburban life. It's others that are being hypocritical by calling Cena a poser and a fake. Yes, his gimmick was called the Dr. of Thuganomics -- that's a gimmick in wrestling and a catchy descriptive name.

3. The FU is a great finisher and Cena sells it well. It's just been called weak by so many that people chime in and agrees because it's fun to bad talk the champ. Hogan's leg drop was a great finisher. Was it the most impressive, no -- but it's still great.

4. Claiming that Cena wasn't ready for the title or that he should have waited 3 more years before he wore gold doesn't make any sense. There's been plenty who got title's quicker. Cena was made champ because the crowds wanted to see him as champ. He was made champ because he brings in more money that any other wrestler in the WWE. He brings in more now with the gold and even with those that boo him -- which is a minority of people.

5. The I Quit match between Cena and JBL didn't suck at all and was quite good. The ending had a little to be desired, but the match rocked. The WM21 match was way to short and was cut do to time constraints. That wasn't JBL's or Cena's fault. Their feud leading up to WM and Judgment Day was excellent.

You've got your opinions and I've got mine. I believe mine tends to be supported more with facts.

Caliban

Mar 30 2006, 01:02 PM

Are Cena's punches an example of the fine, "polished" offence you refer to? How about that hiptoss of his? Chris Benoit is polished, John Cena is green. I read a magazine earlier today from 2002 which compared Cena (then Prototype) to Billy Gunn. Spot on, in my opinion, and his wrestling ability has not improved much in four years.

What is so great about the FU as a finisher? Practise what you preach, explain your opinions.

I agree with you about the I Quit match! Cena does well in those type of matches. Shame WWE don't learn from Paul Heyman. You've gotta hide the negatives and emphasise the positives. Cena can fight, brawl, bleed and bring the intensity. Does great in brawl environments. So why they let him be killed out there in straight wrestling matches... the mind boggles.

You're trying way too hard to defend Cena, much like others try way too hard to attack him.

chaingang_rules

Mar 30 2006, 01:13 PM

To me it seems like everybody has an opinion about Cena, to me he is great but to other's they think he sucks.
But since WM22 is coming this Sunday...I can't wait to see the match between Triple H and Cena, I mean Cena says that he is going to bring it, and I believe that, to me somebody is going to end up bleeding before this match is even over with. I think that after this match is over with and Cena hopefully might get a little more respect from the Cena-haters. I mean there is a good chance he will lose the title, but what if he doesn't??? How is everybody going to treat him then? Are they going to hate him more? Or are they going to respect him more. Like he says this match is either going to make or break his career. But hopefully in the end this match will make him more respected.
Just 3 more days and we will find out the answer.

FanNBham

Mar 30 2006, 01:50 PM

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Are Cena's punches an example of the fine, "polished" offence you refer to? How about that hiptoss of his? Chris Benoit is polished, John Cena is green. I read a magazine earlier today from 2002 which compared Cena (then Prototype) to Billy Gunn. Spot on, in my opinion, and his wrestling ability has not improved much in four years.

What is so great about the FU as a finisher? Practise what you preach, explain your opinions.

I agree with you about the I Quit match! Cena does well in those type of matches. Shame WWE don't learn from Paul Heyman. You've gotta hide the negatives and emphasise the positives. Cena can fight, brawl, bleed and bring the intensity. Does great in brawl environments. So why they let him be killed out there in straight wrestling matches... the mind boggles.

You're trying way too hard to defend Cena, much like others try way too hard to attack him.

I have practiced what I preach. People say the FU isn't a great finisher because it's a fireman’s carry and a throw to the mat. You can say the same thing about all wrestling moves, as I mentioned in my previous post. Benoit's cross face isn't even a move. I like it and I buy into it, but it's simply Benoit putting his clenched fists across someone’s nose and face. Most wrestling moves are that way.

I've heard all sorts of folks say that Cena doesn't the technical skills but it's a new one that he doesn't do the limited move set he has well. I think his punches are great. Cena's style is to play to the top rows of the Arena and not just the camera. Having a background in theatre, I appreciate that. Folks don't have to like his style -- fine. It doesn't mean that others can't like what he does.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Cena does at WM22

BoeyRamm

Mar 30 2006, 05:08 PM

In my mind you all make great points i dont know about you but for me wrestlemania will set it all striaght!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caliban

Mar 31 2006, 09:12 PM

I get the feeling that they are relying on HHH to carry Cena through a great match which he will win.

It's a good plan in theory... but I feel that the Chicago crowd will be aganst Cena, even if he works the best match that he's ever had.

I'm excited to see what happens. Though as far as Wrestlemania goes, Money in the Bank, the Triple Threat, and Edge/Foley are THE matches to look forward to.

I hope that I'm not proven wrong by that.

I'm also worried about the possibility of serious injuries at Mania... I rememeber Brock at WM19 and thinking about Angle's health now... I really hope everyone makes it out OK.

POWERade

Apr 2 2006, 10:36 PM

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I get the feeling that they are relying on HHH to carry Cena through a great match which he will win.

I'm also worried about the possibility of serious injuries at Mania... I rememeber Brock at WM19 and thinking about Angle's health now... I really hope everyone makes it out OK.

as far as the bolded part goes, that's exactly what happened. Hunter was way overselling to make up for Cena's lack of good offense. I think the beginning of the match showed just who the better competitor is.
JR comparing Cena's pathetic attempt at a fisherman's suplex to the Hennigplex? that's just wrong. Kurt Hennig could have done a better suplex than that if he was 3 sheets to the wind.
Did anyone else notice how much slooower that match was than the rest of them?
Cena's punches, like most of his other moves, are so slow and exaggerated, his irish whips were sucky.
the only good moves I saw him do were those two clotheslines.
His drop toe hold sucks too. the end of the match might be the best I've seen him apply the STF to date.
And wtf was up with Cena's entrance - that was so gay. I mean, it was almost cool, but didn't quite get there.
(Hunter's on the other hand was BBAADD AASSEEDD)

Hogan's leg drop was a good finisher? lol, I think there's a different board for comedy

Like Verne Gagne (I think) said, "my grandmother had a better leg drop than Hogan.
Now that I think about it, Cena's character is a lot like Hogan - sucky wrestling and a lot of hype. (Although Cena will never, ever come anywhere close to the level Hogan obtained even halfway thru his career)

yeah, i was worried about injuries too, Flair had me really worried... I almost was worried for Vince too, but I think (hope) he's gonna be fine. I'm curious to read how Flair's doing this week. And I think Trish may have been hurt more than she planned.. especially her face bouncing off of Mickie's knee - that looked bad.

Edge/Foley was GREAT. Mick TOTALLY made up for his less-than-good performance at his last ppv appearance or two.

I hope Kurt will take some time off to let his body rest and heal now.

anyways, i got more to say, but we got a sever thunderstorm rolling in and tornado watches, so i gotta shut my computer off and unplug it now

monkfan2006

Apr 3 2006, 10:33 AM

I like cena, HHH is way to old now, about time we had some young GOOD talent on Raw.

stonecoldsailor

Apr 6 2006, 10:26 PM

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I get the feeling that they are relying on HHH to carry Cena through a great match which he will win.

I'm also worried about the possibility of serious injuries at Mania... I rememeber Brock at WM19 and thinking about Angle's health now... I really hope everyone makes it out OK.

as far as the bolded part goes, that's exactly what happened. Hunter was way overselling to make up for Cena's lack of good offense. I think the beginning of the match showed just who the better competitor is.
JR comparing Cena's pathetic attempt at a fisherman's suplex to the Hennigplex? that's just wrong. Kurt Hennig could have done a better suplex than that if he was 3 sheets to the wind.
Did anyone else notice how much slooower that match was than the rest of them?
Cena's punches, like most of his other moves, are so slow and exaggerated, his irish whips were sucky.
the only good moves I saw him do were those two clotheslines.
His drop toe hold sucks too. the end of the match might be the best I've seen him apply the STF to date.
And wtf was up with Cena's entrance - that was so gay. I mean, it was almost cool, but didn't quite get there.
(Hunter's on the other hand was BBAADD AASSEEDD)

Hogan's leg drop was a good finisher? lol, I think there's a different board for comedy
Like Verne Gagne (I think) said, "my grandmother had a better leg drop than Hogan.
Now that I think about it, Cena's character is a lot like Hogan - sucky wrestling and a lot of hype. (Although Cena will never, ever come anywhere close to the level Hogan obtained even halfway thru his career)

yeah, i was worried about injuries too, Flair had me really worried... I almost was worried for Vince too, but I think (hope) he's gonna be fine. I'm curious to read how Flair's doing this week. And I think Trish may have been hurt more than she planned.. especially her face bouncing off of Mickie's knee - that looked bad.

Edge/Foley was GREAT. Mick TOTALLY made up for his less-than-good performance at his last ppv appearance or two.

I hope Kurt will take some time off to let his body rest and heal now.

anyways, i got more to say, but we got a sever thunderstorm rolling in and tornado watches, so i gotta shut my computer off and unplug it now

I would say that HHH and even more so the fans at the Allstate Arena made the main event for WM22 interesting and exciting.

FanNBham

Apr 7 2006, 12:29 PM

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I would say that HHH and even more so the fans at the Allstate Arena made the main event for WM22 interesting and exciting.

I hate to tell you, it was cena that inspired the crowd in Chicago. If Cena weren't in the match they would have been booing HHH and chanting for Edge.

Cena, whether you like him or not, obviously stirs more emotion into a crowd than any other wrestler since perhaps Hogan. Vince and the WWE know this and are playing right into the audiences emotions. It would be so easy to turn Cena heel -- but then the fans would cheer him. Keeping him face will increase the emotion of the crowds and every match that Cena has.

Cena carried HHH to a great WM22 Main Event.

BoeyRamm

Apr 7 2006, 02:20 PM

Cena carried HHH through the Hype leading up to wrestlemania;HHH carried Cena through the match; AND CENA CARRIED THE TITLE OUT!

POWERade

Apr 8 2006, 11:32 AM

cena stirs more emotion in the crowd than anyone since Hogan?
um.. NOT
he doesn't get near the heat that The Rock got as a bad guy, and he doesn't get near the cheers The Rock got as a good guy.
furthermore, he can't come close to generating "the Electricity in the air" that The Rock did.

and even FURTHERmore, Rock had the millions AND MILLIONS... Cena may have had b4, but that's dwindled down to the hundreds of thousands.

now, i understand a lot of ppl like Cena... and i understand that a lot of people don't share my views on Cena - that's all fine and good.

but do say he generates more buzz than anyone besides Hogan?
that's just downright silly.

FanNBham

Apr 8 2006, 03:15 PM

You did watch WM22, didn't you. Everyone that has seen the big WMs of Austin and Rock are all saying that Cena vs HHH rivals those of old.

I stand by my argument for the very fact that Cena has so roundly split wrestling fans into various factions. Cena is only going to get more popular. The WWE has already started to address the boos and is beginning to let Cena lose and soon the boos will once again all be cheers. Cena won't have to go the route of The Rock and Austin of being rude and crude and hovering between Heel and tweener. Cena's going to be able to do it all the while remaining a FACE. That's something that Hogan has only been able to do.

It's not silly -- it's basic fact!

stonecoldsailor

Apr 8 2006, 07:48 PM

Not only did I see WrestleMania, but I was there live. The thing that made the main event at Mania this year actually wasn't Cena or HHH. It was the fans. If I did have to go with who was the most entertaining in the match I would have to say HHH. Sorry Cena fans but if it makes you feel any better I wasn't impressed with Hogan either and would actually put Cena as being better than Hogan but not HHH.
The reason i say that is because Cenas moves are a little less limited than Hogans.The only thing Hogan had in the ring was a bodyslam and a legdrop. I have yet to see a Hogan match that was a great one but he will be known as a great for the simple reason that he was a major player in wrestling becoming mainstream. On the mic I used to think that Cena was better than Hogan when he did his raps on his opponents and it was entertaining.With Hogan it was always "Well you know mean Gene!" or "Whatcha' gonna do when the 24 inch pythons and hulkamania run wild on you?" and my personal favorite of "Say your prayers and take your vitamins". Of course at that time we did not learn what we did later , that Hogan was taking a special kind of vitamin called steroids. And one more thing about the legacy of Hulk Hogan. Andre The Giant beat Hogan at Wrestlemania 3. The reason I bring this up is because this is a big part of Hogans legacy. He didn't pin Hogan like everyone was talking about but if you watch the match, when Andre has Hogan in the bearhug Hogans arm falls 3 times which is basically supposed to be the same as a 3 count. Match over. But the referree, the late Joey Marella, son of the late Gorilla Monsoon, gave Hogan a fourth chance and that is when Hogan hulked up and came back. But the original topic here is Cena. I don't hate Cena, hell, I don't even dislike Cena. I just like the game a little more and think that HHH is a better all around champion. He is good on the mic and can wrestle or brawl. Cena is finally getting out of the just brawling stage as evidenced by the submission hold the STF. When it comes to champions though most fans like someone like HHH, Kurt Angle Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, The Undertaker or the Late Great, God rest his soul, Eddie Guerrero, because not only are they good on the mic, not only can they brawl and wrestle but they have the unique ability to be able to tell a story in the ring and have fans captivated by it. It isn't just the finishing moves but what leads up to the finishing move that makes a match good or bad. Once Cena learns this artform and masters it as the above mentioned wrestlers have then Cena will have the respect of the fans. Right now he hasn't mastered that art and therefore is not ready to carry the WWE on his shoulders as the WWE champion. Give him a little more time to master the art of storytelling and he will be, without a doubt, one of the Great ones. He just is not in that level yet.
"And that's the bottom line,' cause the STONECOLDSAILOR said so!

FanNBham

Apr 8 2006, 08:16 PM

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Not only did I see WrestleMania, but I was there live. The thing that made the main event at Mania this year actually wasn't Cena or HHH. It was the fans. If I did have to go with who was the most entertaining in the match I would have to say HHH. Sorry Cena fans but if it makes you feel any better I wasn't impressed with Hogan either and would actually put Cena as being better than Hogan but not HHH.
The reason i say that is because Cenas moves are a little less limited than Hogans.The only thing Hogan had in the ring was a bodyslam and a legdrop. I have yet to see a Hogan match that was a great one but he will be known as a great for the simple reason that he was a major player in wrestling becoming mainstream. On the mic I used to think that Cena was better than Hogan when he did his raps on his opponents and it was entertaining.With Hogan it was always "Well you know mean Gene!" or "Whatcha' gonna do when the 24 inch pythons and hulkamania run wild on you?" and my personal favorite of "Say your prayers and take your vitamins". Of course at that time we did not learn what we did later , that Hogan was taking a special kind of vitamin called steroids. And one more thing about the legacy of Hulk Hogan. Andre The Giant beat Hogan at Wrestlemania 3. The reason I bring this up is because this is a big part of Hogans legacy. He didn't pin Hogan like everyone was talking about but if you watch the match, when Andre has Hogan in the bearhug Hogans arm falls 3 times which is basically supposed to be the same as a 3 count. Match over. But the referree, the late Joey Marella, son of the late Gorilla Monsoon, gave Hogan a fourth chance and that is when Hogan hulked up and came back. But the original topic here is Cena. I don't hate Cena, hell, I don't even dislike Cena. I just like the game a little more and think that HHH is a better all around champion. He is good on the mic and can wrestle or brawl. Cena is finally getting out of the just brawling stage as evidenced by the submission hold the STF. When it comes to champions though most fans like someone like HHH, Kurt Angle Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, The Undertaker or the Late Great, God rest his soul, Eddie Guerrero, because not only are they good on the mic, not only can they brawl and wrestle but they have the unique ability to be able to tell a story in the ring and have fans captivated by it. It isn't just the finishing moves but what leads up to the finishing move that makes a match good or bad. Once Cena learns this artform and masters it as the above mentioned wrestlers have then Cena will have the respect of the fans. Right now he hasn't mastered that art and therefore is not ready to carry the WWE on his shoulders as the WWE champion. Give him a little more time to master the art of storytelling and he will be, without a doubt, one of the Great ones. He just is not in that level yet.
"And that's the bottom line,' cause the STONECOLDSAILOR said so!

First, not a bad post -- pretty good, actually – it just needs a little more punctuation and a breakdown into paragraphs and it would be quality. However, I have to disagree that the fans made the match between Cena and HHH. The fans would not have been behaving the way they did if it had not been for the fact that Cena was in the ring. There's no way around that.

However, you do point out an interesting fact about the so-called "Smart" fans up north in the major cities. It has been developing over time, but they've become the most selfish lot of fans I think entertainment has ever seen. Your own words back up an argument of mine I've been making ever since the last WM and particularly the Hall of Fame. Too many Wrestling Fans now go to the Arena to BE THE SHOW instead of being a part of the show and simply participating in the show. It's bizarre and illogical. It as if they are willing now to pay top dollar to make utter fools out of themselves solely because they are on TV. It's as if they are paying for their 15 minutes of fame.

I get the feeling from reading posts on several forum boards, however, that the "smart" fans went way to far at WM22. They've created a Backlash amongst the rest of the Fans that go to the shows primarily to be entertained. Most fans were very turned off by the "[censored] You chants given to Cena. You hear comments like:

It's not cool to boo Cena anymore.

I'm finding I like Cena now. I really appreciate the way he's stood up for himself and doesn't let the boos get to him.

I feel sorry for him. He should be treated that way no matter what you think of him.

Also, if you are any way familiar with the complete history of John Cena you know he has mat skills and is actually a very good technical wrestler. His gimmick and character has been created and fashioned to be a brawler and a street fighter. It's a specific style of wrestling used to keep all wrestlers from looking just alike in matches. Of course Cena's moves are now being opened up. They've been limited so as not to burn out every move there is in wrestling over the past 2 to 3 years.

If you've really studied wrestling you would also know that both wrestlers have to carry a match and there is none of this "HHH carried Cena to a good match." It doesn't and never has worked that way. It's another one of the myths that Smarks have created to make their self-centered arguments carry weight. Well it's a lie. The only thing a Good or Great Wrestler can carry a Bad Wrestler to is a mediocre match.

You also must be aware that what is going on with Cena and ultimately in his feud with HHH is that HHH is putting over Cena because Cena is the future of the business and Hunter can't carry the company on his shoulders by himself. It's the way the business works.

Finally, I find it very ironic that you quote and mock the catch phrases of Hogan as being cheap and then end your own post with one of the most worn out catch phrases there ever was.

What we all need is some more: Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

POWERade

Apr 8 2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Not only did I see WrestleMania, but I was there live. The thing that made the main event at Mania this year actually wasn't Cena or HHH. It was the fans. If I did have to go with who was the most entertaining in the match I would have to say HHH. Sorry Cena fans but if it makes you feel any better I wasn't impressed with Hogan either and would actually put Cena as being better than Hogan but not HHH.*edited for space*

GREAT post!
I think u really hit the nail on the head about Cena's... shortcomings or whatever.
It's odd, how a match can seem more or less exciting depending on fan reaction. (although i've seen lots of matches that the fans weren't into but were very good)
I liked Cena better whne he did the raps too.
I think HHH is waaay better Champion material than Cena... imo, HHH is second only to Angle in ring-saavy (well, on WWE anyways, think HHH could hold up again Samoa Joe or a bunch of other TNA guys? lol)
======================================================

and yes, there are sooo many times when one wrestler has to carry a match, 'cuz the other one sucks. i'll give specific examples when they come to mind.
One reason Regal is being kept around long-term, ic because he is one of the guys that can have a match with anyone and make the match look good, regardless of how bad or good the other person is. (again, read on prowrestling.com quite a while back) Regal could probably have a match with ME and make the match look good, lol. WWE keeps him and a few other on the roster specifically 'cuz they know from time-to-time, they need someone to carry a match for a greenhorn of something.
....and yes, HHH, and the WWE in general are trying desperately to put Cena over. even the commentators are trying double-hard to put Cena over. I've noticed that the comentators and Cena hisself have been directly adressins stuff that ppl like me have been complaining about Cena about. (and yet, while they verbally adress it, his matches aren't getting any better) I read several months ago that Vince has more faith in Cena than he does in Orton or Batista, as far as the future of the company... and it shows in how hard JR, HHH, and others are trying to get him over.

as far as the "smart" fans.... in general, as a mass, fans are pretty much fickle and basically eat whatever Vince and creative feed them. (i.e., the WWE dictates who the fans like more than the fans do)
what we have in the past... few months.. year? is the fans are not wanting to be fed crap like Cena as Champ, or Angle as a loser. The fans are finally standing up to Vince and saying "hey! this is b.s." Cena sux, and Angle is Awesome.
I've noticed over the past year or so, esp in Canada, that the live fans are rooting for the better wrestler, not just the character that WWE wants them to.
And what's wrong with people not wanting to buy into crap?
I mean, Kurt Angle is LITERALLY the best wrestler in the world, and the WWE had him as a heel, losing alll the time. The fans finally stood up and we got what we wanted.
Same with Cena - that character is not championship material, and fans are letting the WWE know that's what they think.
The entire show would be nothing if not for the fans, so why shouldn't they have a voice in it? (and it's kinda hard to ignore when 50 to 75 percent of a 15k+ crowd is telling u something)

hey, i'm willing to wait and see if the Cena character* will evolve into true championship material, but right now, it's not even close.
i mean, Trish stratus started off even suckier than Cena, but has evolved into a true Champion, and a damnn good one.
If Cena really is going to be around long term, I'd like to hope that he can do the same.

Even tho Stone Cold was primarily a brawler, he could chain-wrestle with the best of them when he wanted to (as evidenced in that one match with Kurt Angle several years ago) I simply haven't seen that from Cena - at all.

*I keep refering to the "Cena character", cuz I know nothing of Cena off of tv, or in the past. so i only critisize what I've seen on tv the past few years. I'm not speaking of him personally. i'm not speaking of what he has done in the past.
only what i've seen on WWE tv in the past few years. -the fictional character that is "John Cena".
(this whole suspension of dis-belief can be tricky sometimes, eh? lol)
If anyone has footage or pre-WWE Cena (The Prototype wasn't it?) PM me, 'cuz i'd love to see it. seriously.

and finally, i'd like to point out, that true hustling excludes loyalty or respct.
so that little catchphrase doesn't even make sense. a true hustler will do whatever, screw over whoever, or whatever it takes to get what he wants.
in true hustling, there is no room for loyalty of respect.
that t-shirt is just ignorant, and shows even more my point that Cena is so far away from "thuganomics" that it's laughable.

kapper

Apr 9 2006, 02:15 PM

Yo POWERade bro, I like to read what you write, but you have seriously got to watch your spelling and punctuations. I mean, my eyes start getting wet trying to read and understand what you're saying.

You make some good points, along with everyone else. I mentioned on another post (WHY DO PPL HATE JOHN CENA) that in my opinion the reason Cena has started to be disliked so much is because he's lost his sense of character. Like others have mentioned, when he use to rap, the ones where he would let the crowd finish saying something he started, he was entertaining. He was a punk, and that made him interesting. Now, his character has evolved into a weak, "wants to be everybody's friend" kind of guy. He's almost become into an ordinary guy, which is obviously not going to get him over with the fans. Even if he were to turn heel, he would have to try and be a convincing heel.

Now, getting to the point that was made that Angle is a better wrestler and all that, of course Angle is a better wrestler. But if the WWE had him winning all the time, people would get sick of him too. You can even say people like Shelton Benjamin and Bobby Lashley are young guys that should be pushed because they are good wrestlers too, but they lack some things that are important in this business, microphone skills. That's one reason why it took Benoit so long to finally get to the top of that mountain. Benoit’s microphone skills use to be horrible. He’s actually still not great at it even today, as can be seen how rarely he talks on the mic in the ring.

And getting to Cena's wrestling and how he does the same things all the time, all wrestlers do this. From Michaels to Hogan to Austin to Angle, they all do it. I don't think Cena is that bad at wrestling, why the hell would they put a match between him and Taker on Taker's DVD as one of his greatest 21 matches (although there were even some better matches that were not put on that DVD). Obviously Cena has heart, and he's not full of himself, unlike Orton who apparently thinks very highly of himself to the point of getting suspended. No wonder Vince doesn't think he's the future of the business as POWERade mentioned above.

One thing is for sure though, Cena has drawn a huge crowd reaction, and I think it would be a good idea for the WWE to work with this. There are people paying money to boo him, and there are people paying money to cheer him. Both sides (those that hate him and those that like him) want to out do each other. And this is definitely something the WWE can work with. I must be honest, it is actually entertaining to see what the fans are going to do each week, and if Cena will get more cheers in one arena one week or more boos.

stonecoldsailor

Apr 9 2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Not only did I see WrestleMania, but I was there live. The thing that made the main event at Mania this year actually wasn't Cena or HHH. It was the fans. If I did have to go with who was the most entertaining in the match I would have to say HHH. Sorry Cena fans but if it makes you feel any better I wasn't impressed with Hogan either and would actually put Cena as being better than Hogan but not HHH.
The reason i say that is because Cenas moves are a little less limited than Hogans.The only thing Hogan had in the ring was a bodyslam and a legdrop. I have yet to see a Hogan match that was a great one but he will be known as a great for the simple reason that he was a major player in wrestling becoming mainstream. On the mic I used to think that Cena was better than Hogan when he did his raps on his opponents and it was entertaining.With Hogan it was always "Well you know mean Gene!" or "Whatcha' gonna do when the 24 inch pythons and hulkamania run wild on you?" and my personal favorite of "Say your prayers and take your vitamins". Of course at that time we did not learn what we did later , that Hogan was taking a special kind of vitamin called steroids. And one more thing about the legacy of Hulk Hogan. Andre The Giant beat Hogan at Wrestlemania 3. The reason I bring this up is because this is a big part of Hogans legacy. He didn't pin Hogan like everyone was talking about but if you watch the match, when Andre has Hogan in the bearhug Hogans arm falls 3 times which is basically supposed to be the same as a 3 count. Match over. But the referree, the late Joey Marella, son of the late Gorilla Monsoon, gave Hogan a fourth chance and that is when Hogan hulked up and came back. But the original topic here is Cena. I don't hate Cena, hell, I don't even dislike Cena. I just like the game a little more and think that HHH is a better all around champion. He is good on the mic and can wrestle or brawl. Cena is finally getting out of the just brawling stage as evidenced by the submission hold the STF. When it comes to champions though most fans like someone like HHH, Kurt Angle Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, The Undertaker or the Late Great, God rest his soul, Eddie Guerrero, because not only are they good on the mic, not only can they brawl and wrestle but they have the unique ability to be able to tell a story in the ring and have fans captivated by it. It isn't just the finishing moves but what leads up to the finishing move that makes a match good or bad. Once Cena learns this artform and masters it as the above mentioned wrestlers have then Cena will have the respect of the fans. Right now he hasn't mastered that art and therefore is not ready to carry the WWE on his shoulders as the WWE champion. Give him a little more time to master the art of storytelling and he will be, without a doubt, one of the Great ones. He just is not in that level yet.
"And that's the bottom line,' cause the STONECOLDSAILOR said so!

First, not a bad post -- pretty good, actually – it just needs a little more punctuation and a breakdown into paragraphs and it would be quality. However, I have to disagree that the fans made the match between Cena and HHH. The fans would not have been behaving the way they did if it had not been for the fact that Cena was in the ring. There's no way around that.

However, you do point out an interesting fact about the so-called "Smart" fans up north in the major cities. It has been developing over time, but they've become the most selfish lot of fans I think entertainment has ever seen. Your own words back up an argument of mine I've been making ever since the last WM and particularly the Hall of Fame. Too many Wrestling Fans now go to the Arena to BE THE SHOW instead of being a part of the show and simply participating in the show. It's bizarre and illogical. It as if they are willing now to pay top dollar to make utter fools out of themselves solely because they are on TV. It's as if they are paying for their 15 minutes of fame.

I get the feeling from reading posts on several forum boards, however, that the "smart" fans went way to far at WM22. They've created a Backlash amongst the rest of the Fans that go to the shows primarily to be entertained. Most fans were very turned off by the "[censored] You chants given to Cena. You hear comments like:

It's not cool to boo Cena anymore.

I'm finding I like Cena now. I really appreciate the way he's stood up for himself and doesn't let the boos get to him.

I feel sorry for him. He should be treated that way no matter what you think of him.

Also, if you are any way familiar with the complete history of John Cena you know he has mat skills and is actually a very good technical wrestler. His gimmick and character has been created and fashioned to be a brawler and a street fighter. It's a specific style of wrestling used to keep all wrestlers from looking just alike in matches. Of course Cena's moves are now being opened up. They've been limited so as not to burn out every move there is in wrestling over the past 2 to 3 years.

If you've really studied wrestling you would also know that both wrestlers have to carry a match and there is none of this "HHH carried Cena to a good match." It doesn't and never has worked that way. It's another one of the myths that Smarks have created to make their self-centered arguments carry weight. Well it's a lie. The only thing a Good or Great Wrestler can carry a Bad Wrestler to is a mediocre match.

You also must be aware that what is going on with Cena and ultimately in his feud with HHH is that HHH is putting over Cena because Cena is the future of the business and Hunter can't carry the company on his shoulders by himself. It's the way the business works.

Finally, I find it very ironic that you quote and mock the catch phrases of Hogan as being cheap and then end your own post with one of the most worn out catch phrases there ever was.

What we all need is some more: Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

First off I would like to thank you for the compliment on the post.
I did not say anything about the "smart" fans up north. But you should expect fan reaction and actually the wrestlers look forward to it. It is a way for them to judge whether or not they are doing a good job playing the character or not. The best characters I have seen in wrestling are the ones where it is just the person being themselves but turning up the volume such as Steve Williams A.K.A. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin did so well.
I will agree with you that the fans at WM22 went overboard as far as the chants such as [censored] you Cena were concerned. Especially when you take into account that there were small children there in attendance and those watching worldwide on PPV. That is uncalled for. Now I will be the first to tell you that I have seen matches where there was virtually no fan reaction but it was a great match. Over in Japan the fans usually hold the reaction until the end of the match out of respect for the wrestlers. For some examples of this just check out the DVD Chris Benoit Hard Knocks. There are some great matches from earlier in his carreer where he was wrestling in Japan as the Pegasus Kid.
You are absolutely right that it takes both wrestlers for a classic match. Not everyone can do an Iron man Match like the Hitman and HBK had a few years back or the submission hold match the Benoit and Angle had a few years ago. Back in the day you saw matches go alot longer. How many could go 60 minutes now like Flair, McDaniel, Rhodes and Race did back in their heyday? Not to many people are able to work a match for an extended period of time and actually keep the fans interested in it so much that they don't want to leave their seat due to fear of missing something. Those matches are prime examples of telling a story in the ring perfectly.
I never said that HHH carried Cena through the match. What I said was that I found HHH more entertaining. But that is something which will come to Cena with time and experience.
I have not seen an old Cena match from another promotion but I will check that out. I have a Cena DVD here so hopefully some are on there so I can see Cena before the WWE. I am sure that I will enjoy the matches.
But there is also a big difference between independent promotions and WrestleMania. You don't go and play for the NFL and use your playbook from junior high school.
Last but not least i never said that Hogan's catch phrases were cheap. He used them and they worked for him just as " Hustle, Loyalty and Respect" work for John Cena. This works and is part of what makes their character successful.
As for the other post that said Cena's motto doesn't make any sense because if you arwe a hustler you don't have laoyalty or respect for anyone else. Well then you don't get the motto anyhow. It has nothing to do with being a hustler to begin with. The word hustle means HARD WORK. such as when a sports coach tells one of the players to hustle or Good hustle meaning good work. The basic meaning of this is that through Hustle(hard work),showing Loyalty and giving Respect you will receive the same back and can accomplish anything.
That's the bottom line 'cause STONECOLDSAILOR said so!!!!

FanNBham

Apr 9 2006, 06:01 PM

Another good post.

I should have said that all of my post wasn't directed directly to you. You've pointed out those moments.

As to Cena's Quote. It has nothing to do with Hustlers. That would be a common mistake. The word is Hustle as in Hustle to do you best. Hustle and put in 110% to achieve.

It's actually a great phrase for where the Cena Character is going:

Hustle -- always do more than your best and give it more than you think you ever had to give.

Loyalty -- Stay true to yourself and those that have always been with you from the beginning.

Respect -- There's a whole linage of Wrestling History that has come before -- you are only the tail end of that history. Honor those that have come before you and acknowledge all of those that are with you in the present. They are just as important as you.

There's actually nothing cheap about the phrase and it's rather profound when you really look at it.

stonecoldsailor

Apr 9 2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Another good post.

I should have said that all of my post wasn't directed directly to you. You've pointed out those moments.

As to Cena's Quote. It has nothing to do with Hustlers. That would be a common mistake. The word is Hustle as in Hustle to do you best. Hustle and put in 110% to achieve.

It's actually a great phrase for where the Cena Character is going:

Hustle -- always do more than your best and give it more than you think you ever had to give.

Loyalty -- Stay true to yourself and those that have always been with you from the beginning.

Respect -- There's a whole linage of Wrestling History that has come before -- you are only the tail end of that history. Honor those that have come before you and acknowledge all of those that are with you in the present. They are just as important as you.

There's actually nothing cheap about the phrase and it's rather profound when you really look at it.

Fan, I actually just read the only post that I have ever seen where I agreed with everything that was said.
As stated in my earlier post it is not about being a hustler , it is about putting Hustle into whatever you do. I think whoever talked about being a Hustler and Cena's motto being out of whack was just misunderstanding what it said and meant.

FanNBham

Apr 9 2006, 06:55 PM

^ Yep, after re-reading all the posts -- you are correct! My bad!

stonecoldsailor

Apr 10 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

^ Yep, after re-reading all the posts -- you are correct! My bad!

No sweat. No harm no foul.
What did you think about the handicap match tonight? Where are they going with Kane and what is the significance of May 19th to the Big Red Machine?

FanNBham

Apr 11 2006, 07:34 AM

I thought the handicap match was fun and the whole trio had great promos in the ring. It was also interesting to see Cena in a different kind of City. I don't know if Milwaukee is more of a working class city but they've were much more supportive.

I think next week HHH needs and Cena need to get speared by Edge and Edge needs to look STRONG going into Backlash.

Kane, May 19th is obviously the day his movie comes out -- but as to the significance of what it means to Kane the character -- I'm not sure. Having Kane turn on Show was about the only thing to do with the tag team and I'm glad they just went for it instead of taking too much time.

thedogg001

Apr 11 2006, 10:08 AM

Just because you can form a sentence doesn't mean you put it down in a forum. The fact of the matter is John Cena is a professional wrestler who by the way inspires a great amount of fan emotions. Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, HHH, do that. Heel, Face, whatever...John Cena puts a#@#es in seats and there is no disputing that. Give the man his due. You watch him every Monday Night Raw. You buy his T-Shirts. Chant his name. Get hyped up every time he steps through the curtain. Right now you want to hate Cena. Last year it was HHH is holding everyone back. 10 years ago it was Hogan and Nash aren't talented enough to carry matches. Just watch the show.

TripleH_fan

Apr 11 2006, 12:31 PM

Im just getting board of ceana.....its the same crap over and over again...........im sry ceana fans but its ust not.....idk....wroking........hes a great superstar.....but they over do it when he is on the top

POWERade

Apr 11 2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Another good post.

I should have said that all of my post wasn't directed directly to you. You've pointed out those moments.

As to Cena's Quote. It has nothing to do with Hustlers. That would be a common mistake. The word is Hustle as in Hustle to do you best. Hustle and put in 110% to achieve.

It's actually a great phrase for where the Cena Character is going:

Hustle -- always do more than your best and give it more than you think you ever had to give.

Loyalty -- Stay true to yourself and those that have always been with you from the beginning.

Respect -- There's a whole linage of Wrestling History that has come before -- you are only the tail end of that history. Honor those that have come before you and acknowledge all of those that are with you in the present. They are just as important as you.

There's actually nothing cheap about the phrase and it's rather profound when you really look at it.

Fan, I actually just read the only post that I have ever seen where I agreed with everything that was said.
As stated in my earlier post it is not about being a hustler , it is about putting Hustle into whatever you do. I think whoever talked about being a Hustler and Cena's motto being out of whack was just misunderstanding what it said and meant.

my bad y'all.. i was thinking "hustle" along the same lines as thuganomics, chain gang, etc... as in Cena's silly attempts at being from the streets, etc.

when i see it the way y'all put it, i guess i was waaay off. lol.

and i bet next week, it will be HHH vs Cena/Edge... wonder if Edge will be the one left standing this time? hope so...

thedogg001

Apr 11 2006, 11:04 PM

There are now so called spoilers putting HHH over Cena and Edge pitting him against RVD at the ECW One Night Stand. I don't like the match-up. The last time I saw HHH and RVD together it was the Elimination Chamber where RVD nearly crushed HHH's throat after botching a move. I can't believe it would even be hinted.

stonecoldsailor

Apr 11 2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

There are now so called spoilers putting HHH over Cena and Edge pitting him against RVD at the ECW One Night Stand. I don't like the match-up. The last time I saw HHH and RVD together it was the Elimination Chamber where RVD nearly crushed HHH's throat after botching a move. I can't believe it would even be hinted.

I just got off of another site and saw what you are talking about. There is a poster going around the net for ECW:ONE NIGHT STAND 2 showing the world championship match. HHH vs. RVD. But the poster doesn't actually say who the champ is. It also says An outsider becomes hardcore. I can only assume it is referring to "The King of Kings" HHH. I don't know if the poster is legit or not but I have yet to see the WWE release a poster a few month's in advance of a PPV with the main event advertised.
The catch 22 is even if it is legit all the posters will say "card subject to change". HHH might win the belt at backlash and RVD pull an Edge and come out and beat him for the belt like Edge did Cena at New Years Revolution. Then HHH gets his rematch at ECW ONE NIGHT STAND2. But RVD did say on RAW the night after Mania 22 that when he cashed in his money in the bank it would be hardcore. So I am pretty sure that he will take his shot at ONE NIGHT STAND 2 but the only question is who will he be fighting. I think HHH since Cena is losing steam with the fans and no one likes Edge.
Don't worry about the "Hustle" deal.no biggie.
That's the bottom line'cause STONECOLDSAILOR said so !!!!!