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XDZFAN
Well, tonights ep...Pretty good.

*How many similarities did you all see between Roy and Darren and Jeff Buckley?? I saw quite a few.
*I LOVE that NdB got a WHOLE ep to act! Woo hoo
*They used the Piller Records group "THE WOODS" for the Roy Folds songs. I love that "6feetunder" song, but they already used it, along with The Woods in the web-exclusive of Netherworld. Also, they changed the words from "From me" to "Aubrey"
*I like how they went back to the coma, but I felt that it was a bit corny. And Sarah was wearing what she was on the night of the accident when Johnny had clearly been in the coma for quite a time.
*Young Johnny should have been with Sarah at that concert.

I just bumped my head and can't remember my other comments! Ah! I'll come back later with more.
DenverDZ
I thought tonight's ep was nice enough. Ben Foster was fabulous. Still a lousy job of forensics on the part of police 20 years ago--a drug overdose when she was injected behind the shoulder? <sigh> and Johnny solves the crime <sigh>. I liked when Sarah talked to ComaJohnny, though I got confused about her verb tense. I had to wonder when the convalescent home got tanning beds. Probably some rich donor, huh? Roy Hay's theme made me all nostalgic.

The background music hasn't bothered me until now, so people who are sensitive to it must have thought it was blatantly intrusive. I kept wanting to ask Johnny to please turn down the car radio, it's very rude! I'm sure every one of the songs can be purchased at piller records. I lafffffeeeeddd when Walt said to Sarah that he couldn't hear her!

Otherwise, just a pleasant road trip for John and Sarah. Nice morphing into the past, and not much else to say about it. Except...who beat up the reporter? And why? What did he know? If anyone got beat up, shouldn't it have been Johnny?
destrto
Hey, Do you happen to know the actual artist(s)to the Foldes' Song "Remember"? If you do, that would be great if you could post it on here soon.
Thnx
brattytxn
I thought it a wonderful ep! Finally we get the tag of "friend" betweent John and Sarah (although she still didn't say, "a wonderful man *I* love," but "a wonderful man who loves me".

We are getting alot of eps that talk of "image" and art and inspiration along with the "father/son" theme. Did you notice that Nathan Burke's record company was I think "Artwork Records". Lots of things that impact the ability to express and reach out to another soul.

I don't know why but Nathan Burk looks like Janus (Martin Donovan). Even his secretary was named "Janis", not to mention that huge picture of that tower behind him. Reminded me of "Babel" or "Babylon" where golden idols are infamous. Ah Babylon, know for it's wealth, culture, and political empire.

Roy Foldes in a way reminds me of Stillson because of his charisma, zest for life, and philandering ways. Also, now that I've seen this ep, what odds do we lay that Stillson's girlfriend did NOT get an abortion and little girl or son shows up in the future? No family for Stillson either because of what it means to or most likely will come to mean for Janus and his business. You think they might become friends?

When Burke grabbed Roy and started screaming how much money he had tied up in him...hmmmm. OH and he did a clean up act by moving the dead girlfriend to an apartment to save reputation.

Also, we saw another "collector" in this ep. He was "a broker of broken dreams" and antiquities. Mostly he collected "idol" memorabilia.

Ok...momentary spoiler
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Doesn't Purdy become an museum curator in an upcoming ep? I see him as the "Collector". If I got back to that ep The Collector, didn't those girls look kind of like Vera? Purdy had a way of collecting young women and coaching them. Dana is a big example.
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Ok no more spoiler....

Ok, reference to a heaven - The Elysian Fields! Oh yeah! Roy also told Crystal (Aubrey) to look out for the devil...Burk (who looks like Janus)! Oh this is FUN!! It is also great how they turned what once was green open fields into a junk yard.

Also, some water references which is like "emotion" I think. Lakeside Hotel, Neptoon Records, driving a Corvette off of a cliff. Also, Ray King (I think but couldn't hear to be sure) was a wheel chair. He got that way by being drunk and trying to dive into pool with out water. The man has no soul. He was along for the ride out of pity by Ray. They brought in that "brothers" thing where the girl gets in the way and splits up the brothers? Sounds like "Looking Glass"!

But, it all centered...as usual...on the girl giving the source of inspiration to the man who turns his egocentric ways around and gives back to the world in a creative way, touching the souls of his fans like Sarah. This inspiration/love should've transmitted normally to a child, but this child was not known nor part of the family. Darren had an emptiness that only he thought his father could feel. He thought he was only a sad copy of his father.

I loved John's attempt at playing psychologist, only I think that part about being the "bad joke" was a bad move. Darren hung up.

This part where Darren says:

"...they don't want me, the real me. They want that "thing", that part of me that doesnt exist. They want *him* [Roy]. That's what they're going to get."

But here's the part I loved that got to the heart of the show:

"...love music and feeling of reaching out and toching someone's soul".

An expression of love! How Roy helped Sarah try to reach John while in the coma to make him understand her life and her choices. Her love for him.

Lots of things talking of "image making". Why people go after an "image" or an "idol":

"...people fall in love with musicians because they represent a part of us and because they mark a time and place they don't want to let go of."

Our past can also be our inpsiration...or our curse.

I was struck how quickly Roy re-named Aubrey "Crystal" because of her eyes. Most likely it is a reference to a "crystal ball" because he can see a future he'd never seen before in her eyes. Sort of like the speech Walt gave to Sarah in bed before she left with Johnny.

Oh, and how could we not swoon over being treated to Chris Bruno without a shirt...*thud*...what a hunk!

Great ep! I love it. I also wonder if though if this is a foreshadow of something coming up with JJ about being the son of a famous/infamous 'prophet'?

Love the name Roy Foldes. Looked up "Roy" and got two meanins one "red" from Celtic origin and one French meaning "king". "Red King" reminds me of a post that mentioned a Crimson King or something from one of King's books. The last name "Foldes" I haven't found anything yet but the word itself "fold" can mean to actually fold or to give way like in Poker or even "Welcome to the fold" as was said in "The Storm". One definition says to cover up, wrap, conceal. Roy "folded" all right.
Beno
Just got finished watching "The Last Goodbye". Although I did not think it was as good as last weeks "Heros and Demons" it was an excellent, well written, episode that I thoroughly enjoyed. Anthony Michael Hall was excellent as always. The mullet comment cracked me up.

I thought Ben Foster (Darren Folds) did an excellent job. I have seen this young actor in films like "The Punisher" "Hostage" and Six Feet Under. He has continued to impress me playing very dark but slightly sympathetic characters.

I thought the actor that played Roy Folds also did a great job. I thought he really played the older Roy believably. It did not seem like an young actor trying to act old. Good job.

I also loved Sarah's connection to Roy Folds music. How she played the music for Johnny during that difficult time when he was in a coma. I thought this added a very personal touch to the story and gave it an emotional pull. I loved that they played some of the old Dead Zone score during this scene. I also thought the scene where Sarah confronts Roy was very moving. It was so nice to see Nicole DeBoer back for this weeks show. I am also glad to see she will be appearing next weeks as well.

I thought the ending was very well done. I was shocked to find out that it was Roy's bandmate that killed Aubrey. Did not see that one coming.

Next weeks episode looks to be great. I know the title of it is "The Psychic and the Baby". John L Adams talked about it in one of his riffs and it was the first episode shot for season 4.

"The Last Goodbye" Grade: A
Theresa_Rose
I was glad to see Sarah again, but it made me uncomfortable to see her and Johnny so formal with each other. I am actually surprised that Walt would let her go off on a trip with Johnny considering their past indiscretion. To Walt's credit, I am not sure Sarah has earned the great trust he seems to now have in her. Some of Sarah's comments were strange also. She still seems to be rationalizing her marriage to Walt and questioning if her life decisions have been correct. I thought she was past all that. When she cried at the end and said how could anyone not want to be married to a man who loves her unconditionally, implies to me that she is far from satisfied with her marriage. Also I was disappointed that they didn't give AMH more to do last night. It was a great opportunity for him to actually play a rock star (which they actually promised us in the promotion); he ended up just being in the background. He was the least interesting of the whole cast (although great eye candy); he should always be the main focus.
McGoohan
Quote:

Well, tonights ep...Pretty good.

*How many similarities did you all see between Roy and Darren and Jeff Buckley?? I saw quite a few.





I saw them too. While I was watching it I said to my wife "Man, this episode makes me think of Jeff Buckley."

Anyone know who the actor was that played Roy Foldes? I recognized him but couldn't place him. Thanks.
XDZFAN
Yeah, Roy looked like Jeff and Darren had his situation. Someone (I think Johnny) on the show even said that it must be hard living in the shadow of a rock legend. That made me think of Jeff and Tim and how Jeff wanted to be quite separate.

Also, Jeff did have a song called "Last Goodbye"
mysterywhiteboy
Someone on the Dead Zone is apparently a Buckley fan from the use of "New Years Prayer" and this episode. When I saw the title of the ep. + the plot, what else could it be in reference to? I guess it was a kind of pseudo tribute but the plot had NOTHING to do with Buckley's real life. Buckley would've never killed himself over his father. Plus he was already more successful than his dad had ever been when he drowned.

Anyway, another lackluster episode in a lackluster season. I really hope they get it going again. Seasons 1-3 were must watch stuff.
NEfan
Hey, I liked it. When I think about it now, it had a ton of plot holes -- the OD injection in the shoulder, who was the kid's Mom, why Roy had a buzz cut in the 80s -- but still it was enjoyable while it was happening. It was a good episode for NdB, and the interaction between Johnny and Sarah was nice to watch. Ben Foster was very good, he's a talented actor, I wish he had more to do.

Maybe it resonated with me because back in the day there were a few bands/artists that I used to follow around the east coast. The concept of the importance of music, and how it can really help you through the tough times, rang true.

There were no guns, and no explosions. For that alone, I give it 3 stars.
brattytxn
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The background music hasn't bothered me until now, so people who are sensitive to it must have thought it was blatantly intrusive.




I've read this comment on the boards before. I have to say I never noticed the background music. Is that good or bad? LOL! BUT I was highly annoyed with Sarah for singing along with the record when she was trying to point out something in the song and I couldn't hear because of her singing too.

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I lafffffeeeeddd when Walt said to Sarah that he couldn't hear her!





I was a bit distracted from the conversation. Too much Walt showing... hubba ......hubba
maplebear
WAS not it did not even hold my attention I wish they would not put Sara and John together. That is why I wound up watching PAULY SHORE'S Reality show!!!!
annofargyle
I liked this episode. It was showing me more rounded characterization than I had seen in the past episodes. It also had a higher energy level in the writing and in the actor performances this week. Some goofy things that I noticed:

* Did that guy who played the "keeper of broken dreams" remind you of that guy in the movie Sling Blade? Uh-huh

*Johnny wore cooler outfits this week

*Roy, buddy, you did not age well at all. That long hair - boo - you need to do something for those split ends!

*I liked the Dragnet moment when Darren had just jumped out of his car and Johnny and Sarah came running over. "Who are you people?" Darren asks. "Fans," they replied "Big fans."

*It was so nice to hear Sarah's theme come back into this episode. It made me nostalgic for the music from the last three years.

*I liked the transition of Sarah to groupie when she was describing the old concert at Aleysian Fields.
colorain
I loved seeing Sarah back. She returned some of that emotional connection that's being somewhat missing the past few episodes.

Was that a watch or a bracelet she took off her right wrist in the waaaaay begin when with Walt? Does anyone know if Nicole (or Sarah) is left-handed?

Also, I can't wait for next week's episode! Johnny and a baby? Sort of gives him the chance to be a dad, and it would be really perfect to get Sarah involved as well.
Ruralstar
I've just had a chance to watch this ep. First impressions: eh, kind of predictable.

    [*]The killer could only be one of two people and I suspected Roy's bandmate early on. The guy had the guilts in a major way.

    [*]Walt trusting Sarah. Well he didn't completely. The whole "Taking a Trip with Johnny" thing. He has his doubts but he's trying so hard to trust her. My spouse called him a dip for letting her go and considering her past indescretion I can see why he and any guy might feel that way. Time will tell. I really hope they don't return to the Love Triangle. Walt get thee to a lawyer post haste if they do.
    [*]Another John solves it mystery. The big emotional payoff was for Sarah. I found that odd because the music obviously meant alot to both of them. They attended concerts together in their youth.
    [*]Why are we revisiting coma scenes again? In alot of ways the scene reminded me of the good-bye in Speak Now except that one was done better. I could see having a flash of Sarah playing that music for John, but not talking yet again about making decisions and finding a dad for baby JJ.
    [*]Uh, go home when Walt tells you to Sarah. While I'm a huge fan of independence for women I think Walt was completely correct in this case. The reporter coming in all beaten up just emphasized the point.
    [*]Speaking of, who beat up that guy and why? Are we meant to think the ex bandmate caught the guy in a dark alley or something? Or maybe he got some heavies from the old days to knock him around? *shrugs*
    [*]I did like some of the nostalgia feeling of the ep and Johnny talking about shaving the mullet had me laughing and cringing. I can't picture AMH with a mullet LOL!
    [*]Walt in bed, Bratty I'm soooo with you there! THUNK
    [*] I liked the sweet moment between John and Sarah as friendship, not the reawakening of something more. I have a dear male friend whom I dated in my youth. We've since moved on, married and have families. It's possible for people who share romantic love to move into a platonic relationship. Even people who have a child together. I liked the hug, it was sweet.
    [/list]

    Overall this was an okay ep, better than The Collector but that's not saying much. After last week's Heroes and Demons I expected to feel a bit let down. It would have been nice to be wrong.
CAZoneWoman
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[*]Walt in bed, Bratty I'm soooo with you there! THUNK



droolblatherblatherglubgaspWas there a gaspblatherblatherdroolwas there actually a blatherblathergulpgulpgulp a compWalt, I mean a complete episode after that 1st ten minutes? droolblatherblatherdroolgaspblather I think -- blatherblatherblatherdrool uh, I, uh, I think I wore out my, uh, my TiVo gaspgaspblatherblatherdroolgasp THUNK!
brattytxn
Isn't Walt the best sort of "compensation" one can ask for if one can't have John? Sarah, you've married ADONIS! Have you looked at him? I mean REALLY looked at him? We know he's sweet and the best husband, but God Almighty woman, LOOK AT YOUR HUSBAND @@ .....THUNK.....
annofargyle
CAZ and Bratty, you guys crack me up! I burst out laughing when I read your posts. My dog is looking at me right now wondering what's wrong with me!
Digigoose
LMAO CZW, it's nice to hear your thoughts on the episode... that was so insightful, deep, and organized! haha!

Anyways, I thought The Last Goodbye was good, not excellent but good. Giving Sarah something to do with Johnny, getting another peek into their past (though I could've done w/out another coma flashback too), the whole music nostalgia theme, and the fact that they went on a roadtrip... that was all cool. And I enjoyed Ben Foster's performance, he played the down-in-the-dumps unappreciated musician character well... not to mention the drunken whoa I just jumped outta my moving car guy.

However, it bugged me that Sarah and Walt were still discussing issues of trust when it came to her going on a trip with Johnny... I mean how long has it been now?! It was made clear a long time ago that Sarah has pledged herself to Walt, and Johnny is just a close friend now, so why the questions about their marriage, whether they were playful questions or not? Walt has also become a lot closer with Johnny over the years and I HAVE to believe that there are no longer any insecurities between them. The only thing I can figure, is that a couple lines about their relationships had to be thrown in for viewers who haven't seen all the love triangle eps yet... so everyone knows where the characters stand... I guess.

I was also hoping Johnny would've had the chance to *become* the musician... When he picked up and strummed the Fender I thought for sure that his on-stage vision of Roy would be a first person one, but nope.

Did anybody else expect there to be one last scene at the end there, after Johnny and Sarah's discussion about choices? Like a short segment with Johnny, Sarah, Walt and Roy sitting around a table all attending Darren's next gig and chatting it up together... getting Walt introduced to Roy and catching him up on the recent goings-on, etc... that's how I expected the last 5 minutes of the hour to be spent.
Kellin
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Was that a watch or a bracelet she took off her right wrist in the waaaaay begin when with Walt? Does anyone know if Nicole (or Sarah) is left-handed?


Nicole is left-handeded.
Ruralstar
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CAZoneWoman: droolblatherblatherglubgaspWas there a gaspblatherblatherdroolwas there actually a blatherblathergulpgulpgulp a compWalt, I mean a complete episode after that 1st ten minutes? droolblatherblatherdroolgaspblather I think -- blatherblatherblatherdrool uh, I, uh, I think I wore out my, uh, my TiVo gaspgaspblatherblatherdroolgasp THUNK!



Quote:

Isn't Walt the best sort of "compensation" one can ask for if one can't have John? Sarah, you've married ADONIS! Have you looked at him? I mean REALLY looked at him? We know he's sweet and the best husband, but God Almighty woman, LOOK AT YOUR HUSBAND @@ .....THUNK.....




ROTFLMAO Gods you guys kill me. I'm sooo with you there. Sarah wake up and smell the reality!
Kellin
Quote:

Quote:

CAZoneWoman: droolblatherblatherglubgaspWas there a gaspblatherblatherdroolwas there actually a blatherblathergulpgulpgulp a compWalt, I mean a complete episode after that 1st ten minutes? droolblatherblatherdroolgaspblather I think -- blatherblatherblatherdrool uh, I, uh, I think I wore out my, uh, my TiVo gaspgaspblatherblatherdroolgasp THUNK!



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Isn't Walt the best sort of "compensation" one can ask for if one can't have John? Sarah, you've married ADONIS! Have you looked at him? I mean REALLY looked at him? We know he's sweet and the best husband, but God Almighty woman, LOOK AT YOUR HUSBAND @@ .....THUNK.....




ROTFLMAO Gods you guys kill me. I'm sooo with you there. Sarah wake up and smell the reality!


A creepy hypecrite who can only pick emotionaly vunerable women?
CAZoneWoman

A creepy hypecrite who can only pick emotionaly vunerable women?


Whoa! A little harsh?

"Creepy"? Not on your life!

And "hypecrite"? I'm sure you probably meant hypocrite, as in "1. A person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion; 2. A person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings". Seems to me Walt has clearly stated AND proven how much he loves Sarah. As to his virtue, when has he shown otherwise (aside from not being perfect, in which case I don't think any of us can truly be virtuous)?

As far as "only" picking up emotionally vulnerable women: huh? I know he's socially shy, but does that make him a predator?

Anyway, your jealousy aside...

Hey! If I can ever get past the bedroom scene, I will at some point (oh, about the year 2010) give my critique of this ep (not that many people want me to anyway ha ha!)!
brattytxn
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know he's socially shy, but does that make him a predator




Yes! Walt must be protected from those voracious female predators! Who will do it?!

*watches several hands go up then tossing elbows...*

Ladies! Ladies!

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creepy hypecrite who can only pick emotionaly vunerable women




Oh, you mean like Joh...er...FJ (who is a version of John) via John?!!

*me runs very fast...*
Kellin
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Whoa! A little harsh?


Not really. I didn't mention his inabillity to solve a crime without Johnny or his poor grasp of proper police procedure and suspects civil rights or the obvious fact that if Johnny hadn't woken up that he never would told jj the truth...

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Seems to me Walt has clearly stated AND proven how much he loves Sarah. As to his virtue, when has he shown otherwise (aside from not being perfect, in which case I don't think any of us can truly be virtuous)?


He committed adultery with he's best friends wife and then hassles Sarah about her tryst with Johnny. And to be honest I've never really seen anything that convinces me that Walt is in love with Sarah. I don;t think there is any chemistry there.

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As far as "only" picking up emotionally vulnerable women: huh? I know he's socially shy, but does that make him a predator?


but it's beyond socially shy when he can't form a relationship with a women who isn't in a bad postion. I'm sure he thinks he's being all noble and white knight-ish but sometimes that's that last thing that's need.

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Anyway, your jealousy aside...


Not jealous (ok a little I'm sure Sarah would be much happier with a guy like me )I don't actually mind Walt but the constant refrain of how he's a nice guy and how it's all Sarah's fault annoys me.
brattytxn
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didn't mention his inabillity to solve a crime without Johnny or his poor grasp of proper police procedure and suspects civil rights or the obvious fact that if Johnny hadn't woken up that he never would told jj the truth...




Even FJ said, "Good old Walt to the rescue..." Says it all for me. John and Walt are friends now who also have a working relationship. Walt needs John's help with a case, he asks becasue he cares about people. John accepts because he cares about people. John has also been known to ask for Walts help. Same goal in the end, isn't it?

As far as police procedure, Walt has foregone it a few times for John's benefit in order to get answers because John needs things. Wasn't John busting into that Graydon guys office for something in "Still Life" and Bruce said something to the effect of bringing John along on his next bank heist (said jokingly, naturally). So, who is breaking the law or forgetting *procedure* here?

John has no power to arrest nor prove anything unless he finds actual hard evidence or tricks a confession out of someone. Who has to hear the confession and who understands John is only helping and NOT assuming that because he has knowledge he is a culprit? BECAUSE Walt knows this, he's the first one John goes to if he can.

John has been known to grab people to get a vision. Sonny Elliman told us distinctly that that was considered assault when Walt grabbed him in Rebecca's apartment. So, who's going against the law or procedure? Bending the rules? Both John and Walt equally. Why? To help people.

As far as JJ was concerned, Sarah made that decision to tell JJ about John being his dad. Where did Walt object to it? He was there when they told JJ and he went after JJ to talk to the boy about John. From JJ's reaction, whatever Walt said, made the boy feel comfortable enough to go out and face John. Walt had to have made it clear that he would not abandon JJ because of what is now happening in the boy's life.

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He committed adultery with he's best friends wife and then hassles Sarah about her tryst with Johnny. And to be honest I've never really seen anything that convinces me that Walt is in love with Sarah.




When has Walt ever hassled Sarah about her affair. He wanted her to choose! He said clearly in "Finding Rachel" that he wanted his *wife* back. In "No Questions Asked" Walt pretty much let on he suspected things. He asked Sarah if it was over, she said "yes" and it was a new beginning from that point on for their relationship. Sarah can leave at any time she chooses. She chooses not to. Walt isn't threatening her in any way nor has he threatened to kick her out of the house. He left when he had a problem.

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And to be honest I've never really seen anything that convinces me that Walt is in love with Sarah. I




What more would he have to do to prove it?

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when he can't form a relationship with a women who isn't in a bad postion. I'm sure he thinks he's being all noble and white knight-ish but sometimes that's that last thing that's need.





Wait a minute. Sarah didn't have to take Walt up on anything. It can be said that Sarah used him, couldn't it? Why didn't Sarah just get money from John's mother? Never has any of Walt's or Sarah's relation ever been portrayed as anything but loving and friendly towards the other. Maybe it is not the type of love that Sarah had for John, but she chose what she chose. She was no victim. Many women in this day and age raise babies out of wedlock. No one said it was easy, but it is done all of the time. Vera raised her son without a father. Her husband died when John was young. Yes, John still had a dad, but for a very short period of time.

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how he's a nice guy and how it's all Sarah's fault annoys me




More people were annoyed with Sarah at not being able to choose. Walt is a nice guy. He's never hurt his wife and has the patience of Job.
CAZoneWoman
LOL, as a fellow Walt-aholic, I second these comments.
Ruralstar
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LOL, as a fellow Walt-aholic, I second these comments.




Third the comment and I'll toss in an observation about the episode.

Whenever I watch Dead Zone I look for a mirror scene. One that reflects an aspect of John's life/personality. Now one could argue that The Last Good-bye as a whole was supposed to be a mirror. Personally I didn't think so, however a third (yes third) rewatch brought something to my attention.

When John is talking to Darren on the cellphone we are given the following sections of dialogue:


Johnny: I know your pain, at least I can imagine it. Trying to live up to somebody you never even met.
Darren: You have no idea.
Johnny: Then tell me. Tell me how it feels


In reality John can empathize. We know little about his father but we know his death has a major impact on John's life. Purdy was present from early on but he might never have gained such a powerful hold on Vera Smith had John's father lived. In a way John is trying to live with and up to the memory of a man he never really got the chance to know.

Darren: I love the music. That feeling when you are able to reach out and touch somebody's soul.
Johnny: That must be a great feeling


John is intimately familiar with that feeling. When he tells Darren it's 'great' he knows it for the truth. He also knows the pain when things do not go the way he hopes.

Darren: Except nobody wants me, not the real me. They want that thing, that part of me that doesn't exist They want him... If that's what they want that's what they'll get.
Johnny: Darren, if you drive off that cliff you still won't be your father. You'll just be a rock 'n roll footnote. A bad joke somebody makes at a party.
Darren: That's the problem bro. I am a joke. I always have been.


Because of the way this scene was edited together we get very little of John's reaction to Darren's comments. However I think something very important is mirrored for John. Strangers are always looking for something from him. They want 'that man' the person with the ability to see the future. They aren't interested in John as a person, only his friends see that side and truly make an effort to understand it. John has to put on a front like any 'celebrity', perhaps more so because his gift/curse is so personal.

We have seen John pretty low emotionally though never suicidal. Still, his telling Darren that death will not transform him is somewhat ironic. John can never be the man he was before the accident. He may loose his gift but that will not make him that person. In some ways he may feel like the cocktail party joke. The man who sees all but doesn't always understand. His physical reactions to the visions make him susceptible to ridicule. HIs passion when he 'believes' he's on the right track has sometimes, at least in the short term, lead him astray and left him vulnerable.

I know this is alot to read into a few lines of dialogue. Feel free to call me a bit cracked for going this far. But I had to believe there was a bit more to this episode than a buddy roadtrip. I haven't read the story treatment so I don't know the writer's intentions. This is how I chose to interpret the scene. Seeing it this way gave me a new appreciation for an episode that I really didn't care for.
brattytxn
Ruralstar, I think you hit it dead center!! Great analysis!!

One other thing that mirrors John is Roy Foldes himself. Becoming a symbol for something yet no one cares for the inner man and his wants and needs, i.e. when he wanted to marry Crystal/Aubrey.

In addition to your comments, maybe we should add that John is also a commodity, an idol, in his own right. Or his celebrity status may increase exponentially with Purdy taking on a 'world stage'. The "show" must go on as they say and the actors on the stage play their roles and possibly sacrifice much in order to give the performance of their lives. Roy wanted what John wants, a married, settled life. To touch someone's soul as one in love would. Isn't what Darren described about writing music a form of making love? To touch another's soul intimately?

I think maybe I would debate one point about John empathizing fully with what Darren was saying. Remember what John said to Sarah about her hearing the "Aubrey" reference? She said that some people only hear the music, they don't "listen".

This line:

Johnny: That must be a great feeling...

The word "must" implies to me that John has not ever felt that deeply or else why did he not say he knows that feeling intimately? When Darren writes music he is sharing his soul. John rarely, if ever, shares his with anyone. He helps people and he touches them yes, but he doesn't necessarily share a part of himself with that deep experience that could be akin to a religious one.

Sarah was touched more deeply by such things because she herself aspired to singing at one time. It's apparent the Roy Foldes had more meaning on a personal level to Sarah than John even though they both liked the singer.

I've also been interested in the "friends" of Roy Foldes. Can they compare to those we know in John's world. Whenever they say or make inferences to "the devil", I pay attention because I love the Aramageddon arc stuff. A new way to portray a devil is someone who loves you but wants you to stick with your "career" because of the "investment" one has in the "idol" or gift of the individual. The girl's memory was tarnished as a drug addict. Her meaning sullied all in the name of the image of the idol. I think that is why this help make Roy commit "suicide". Nathan Berk may have only helped Roy because we all know that it only immortalizes an icon to "die" like that.

But getting to the issue of suicide, we've seen two attempted suicides on DZ. One is Jonah (name of the reluctant prophet from the Bible) from "Precipitate" and Jack Jericho (another Biblical reference) in "Cold Hard Truth). In each case the inner person was destroyed by something, depression over guilt or continual rejection. Is John someday headed for a suicidal moment?


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Feel free to call me a bit cracked for going this far. But I had to believe there was a bit more to this episode than a buddy roadtrip




Or course there was!! There always is in my book! LOL!
I just can't always articulate it. You did a great job!
Ruralstar
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I think maybe I would debate one point about John empathizing fully with what Darren was saying. Remember what John said to Sarah about her hearing the "Aubrey" reference? She said that some people only hear the music, they don't "listen".




Good point. I had forgotten about that moment. As you mention later on, Sarah's personal aspirations as a singer had a real impact on her perceptions of Roy and his career.

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This line:

Johnny: That must be a great feeling...

The word "must" implies to me that John has not ever felt that deeply or else why did he not say he knows that feeling intimately? When Darren writes music he is sharing his soul. John rarely, if ever, shares his with anyone. He helps people and he touches them yes, but he doesn't necessarily share a part of himself with that deep experience that could be akin to a religious one.




I think the choice of words was purposeful because of what you pointed out. John does not share part of his soul with those he touches. That is too intimate and possibly too difficult for him. "That must be a great feeling." allows him a bit of distance and encourages Darren to talk. John is also on the defensive at that moment. Maybe a little afraid of opening himself up too much. Self preservation?

Quote:

But getting to the issue of suicide, we've seen two attempted suicides on DZ. One is Jonah (name of the reluctant prophet from the Bible) from "Precipitate" and Jack Jericho (another Biblical reference) in "Cold Hard Truth). In each case the inner person was destroyed by something, depression over guilt or continual rejection. Is John someday headed for a suicidal moment?




This speaks to the slow disintegration of spirit I noticed in season three. John was on a downward spiral in alot of ways last year. I can't honestly think that is over. At least it wouldn't be were I the writer. Heaven only knows what TPTB have in store for us this year. As much as I like the 'lighter' side of John this year, I still do expect some repercussions. I think John is flying high right now. Things are usually breaking his way, which is a switch as Rebecca noted the opposite at the end of Broken Circle. I believe you discussed 'the fall' in another thread. I can see that as being very plausible. FTR, I know the destruction suicide can bring and I'm speaking purely in regards to character here. John hitting the bottom seems very plausible to me. He certainly has enough stored pain for a couple of lifetimes.
brattytxn
Quote:

John is also on the defensive at that moment. Maybe a little afraid of opening himself up too much. Self preservation?




Yes, most likely which is one thing that FJ may have been trying to get through to John. John may have never let himself "fall" in order so that he may pick himself up again. It's easy to lie to oneself about ones pain until it hits you so squarely in the face due to some incident that the depression is overwhelming. Remember in "Cold Hard Truth" any mention of a psychological intervention was dealt with in biting remarks to put people off. In the end it wasn't clinical analysis but empathy and understanding or just chasing after someone that is difficult to catch to make them understand that they mean something or get them to listen to someone whom they really need to talk to or be inspired by. Look how both Jack Jericho's life and Jonah's turned around. A "fall" helped them heal.

Quote:

This speaks to the slow disintegration of spirit I noticed in season three. John was on a downward spiral in alot of ways last year. I can't honestly think that is over. At least it wouldn't be were I the writer. Heaven only knows what TPTB have in store for us this year. As much as I like the 'lighter' side of John this year, I still do expect some repercussions




It almost makes me think it might be a return of "class clown" that we've discussed somewhere around here that can hide a soul in pain. I draw a little of what is going on this season from that "Brace Yourself" song that they played.

"...stay with me. I'm in no condition to be alone..."
luvinit
It seems all the songs are actually by "The Woods". Looks like their album (with I'll remember) is on sale at the Piller Records website, or you can get the individual song off of iTunes.
meowmanmusic
All the songs are bt The Woods and available at pillerrecords.com or cdbaby.com
meowmanmusic
Looking for info on The Woods in the web-exclusive of Netherworld.
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