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Episode Discussion: Season 3, Episode 16, “Judgment Day”, Airs Tuesday Feb 28, 2011

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#21 AdoreFedora

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:26 PM

I want a gif of Neal's face during the last minute. :( Matt played that part beautifully. Peter's shake of the head was excellent and I loved the way Neal disappeared. I appreciated Jones' statement to the board. I thought it was accurate and truthful and played to his character. Peter and Neal's speeches were well done. I've love to hear them again and I know I will want to watch a second showing. Overall great episode and you can see how the team - Neal, Peter, Mozzie, Sara, Diana, June, Elizabeth - truly comes together during trying times. Despite everything they are there for one another and the bromance shall live on.

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#22 Surreal44

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

I don't like the fact that Neal ran. I know it looks like Peter gave him the go ahead, but now the both of them are in hot water. Hopefully, when Peter exposes what Kramer did, the power to be don't rake Peter over the coals. I also hope that noone caught Diana giving Neal a lift.

I loved how Sara got her boss on board to say Neal was hired to authenticate the Raphael. Great idea that Peter had. Like Ann posted, the punishment for possession can be more severe than the actual theft. Peter said Neal would get 25 years if caught.

Did anyone notice that the return address of Neal's letter from prison said "Sing Sing Correctional"? Sing Sing is a STATE prison. Neal was in a federal prison.


I'm not really sold on the idea that going on the run was somehow a better option than having Kramer take charge of Neal. In fact, I'm a little puzzled over it.

I figured if Neal ran, it might be to protect someone, or that he was going to get caught by Kramer before he ran and give himself over in exchange for Kramer not going after Peter.

This feels...I dunno. Unnecessarily dramatic?

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#23 Leigh1

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:31 PM

I sort of expected them to do a flop with Diana and Jones and they did. Diana has always been pretty hard on Neal and yet she risked her own career to help him out when he was in a jam. While Jones who has always been on good terms with Neal, owned up to the fact Neal is a friend but needs to earn his due so to speak and finish his time. His military mentality came in to play there. I sort of expected Jones may go that route after his comment to Peter about how Neal being off leash could affect the WC unit.

Loved Diahann Carroll's part. June made me laugh when she walked out and told Moz she nailed it. Yes, you did mam. :lol:

#24 WhiteRose

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:32 PM

I'm not really sold on the idea that going on the run was somehow a better option than having Kramer take charge of Neal. In fact, I'm a little puzzled over it.

I figured if Neal ran, it might be to protect someone, or that he was going to get caught by Kramer before he ran and give himself over in exchange for Kramer not going after Peter.

This feels...I dunno. Unnecessarily dramatic?



If Neal went with Kramer, that would have been it. Kramer would have found out more and more about his past crimes, add more time, and eventually it would get to the point that he would never be free again.

He had to run. Peter was smart for telling him.

#25 Bellalynne

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:34 PM

Leigh1, I agree with you. I just knew Neal was gonna run though. I hate Kramer.

#26 Pamela11

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:34 PM

All I'm saying right now is this was fantastic. I must watch again to get it all in, but that ending was great! Good job, who ever the writer was. It pretty much had just about everything!


Wow! Exciting episode; so well written. The tension just mounted. Ended up being my favorite cliff-hanger. Did Kramer want vengeance for the past? He's now surpassed the "early Fowler" as a nasty villain. Poor Neal ended up the scapegoat.

Sara came through, Mozzie was delightful, Peter defended his friend/partner and Jones testified honestly, but surprisingly.

Where are we left? What was the significance of Neal's facial emotions at the end? The writers always leave Neal a bit inscrutable. They seem to want the viewer to always question whether Neal has changed or is it still a con. In the same way, was Peter required to defend his partner or did he cross the line? I love how White Collar always plays it both ways. ;)

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#27 Terri88

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:35 PM

If Neal went with Kramer, that would have been it. Kramer would have found out more and more about his past crimes, add more time, and eventually it would get to the point that he would never be free again.

He had to run. Peter was smart for telling him.

Agree! Peter knew Kramer had Neal boxed in. It didn't matter if Neal's sentence was commuted or not, Kramer was going to have him arrested (and then "chained" to him in D.C.).

#28 ASLAN95

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:36 PM

Peter always comes through for Neal, even if he's not always on board at first. I really hate it when you make Peter out to be a bad guy. :P

Peter was not going to argue for commutation until he realized how the anklet endangered Neal. Too many have wanted leverage to gain Caffrey's talents. Criminals and now the FBI. Peter finally realized that Neal had to be free to really make a choice.

Peter was not on Neals' side when he tried to get him with the Dega.. So he did not come through then. Peter has been bad and he has been good . The problem is that he is not constant. Neal is more constant. He will give up what is needed to help Peter illegal or legal, that is true loyalty.

Edited by ASLAN95, 28 February 2012 - 11:36 PM.


#29 WhiteRose

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Agree! Peter knew Kramer had Neal boxed in. It didn't matter if Neal's sentence was commuted or not, Kramer was going to have him arrested (and then "chained" to him in D.C.).



What I loved is that Peter did everything he could to make sure Neal was free before they found out. That's most likely the reason why he said he should be free instead of saying he should carry out hs sentence. But it was too late :(

#30 Surreal44

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

If Neal went with Kramer, that would have been it. Kramer would have found out more and more about his past crimes, add more time, and eventually it would get to the point that he would never be free again.

He had to run. Peter was smart for telling him.


And I say to that: so what? It wouldn't have been the perfect life, but I don't know that it would have been horrible. Now Neal can never have a settled, happy life. There's always a chance now that he could be caught. He's always going to have to keep a wary eye out, and he can't really go back to New York. He essentially just ruined his life.

At worst, Neal would be working for Kramer and Peter would have had to drive to D.C. to visit him. Now Peter's career could be in shambles, Peter's destroyed his friendship with Kramer, possibly any credibility he had, and on top of that, the guys are separated.

I know, I know. The writers will fix it. But it seemed totally unnecessary to me to have Neal run because he'd have just had to serve a sentence for things he's actually done wrong.

Edited by Surreal44, 28 February 2012 - 11:40 PM.

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#31 sml5381

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:45 PM

i am confused by episode 1 the beginning when neal and mozzie were on their plane with the treasure. i am forgetting that be shown again. or is that gonna be part of season 4? compared to the ending of the season when they're on a commercial plane

Edited by sml5381, 28 February 2012 - 11:46 PM.


#32 Surreal44

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:46 PM

Peter was not going to argue for commutation until he realized how the anklet endangered Neal. Too many have wanted leverage to gain Caffrey's talents. Criminals and now the FBI. Peter finally realized that Neal had to be free to really make a choice.

Peter was not on Neals' side when he tried to get him with the Dega.. So he did not come through then. Peter has been bad and he has been good . The problem is that he is not constant. Neal is more constant. He will give up what is needed to help Peter illegal or legal, that is true loyalty.


Peter WAS on Neal's side with the Degas. He had been working to find out the truth so that he could protect Neal. He's said as much. It's just convenient that you always seem to forget that little detail in your efforts to make Peter out to be horrible. :P

Also, I'm not sure what Neal gains by running. It seems like a stupid move. He could have gotten his sentence commuted, and fought the charges against him in court. He may have won. Kramer doesn't just get to decide to extend Neal's sentence. He has to prove Neal guilty, and the case Kramer had was flimsy. Except for "public endangerment", and that charge could have been dismissed or plead down.

I just think that this was unnecessary, and a disappointing reason for Neal to run.

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#33 CathysOpinion

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:46 PM

Peter was not going to argue for commutation until he realized how the anklet endangered Neal. Too many have wanted leverage to gain Caffrey's talents. Criminals and now the FBI. Peter finally realized that Neal had to be free to really make a choice.

Peter was not on Neals' side when he tried to get him with the Dega.. So he did not come through then. Peter has been bad and he has been good . The problem is that he is not constant. Neal is more constant. He will give up what is needed to help Peter illegal or legal, that is true loyalty.



Because of the dang anklet, Kramer knew where Neal was at all times. Neal didn't have much of a chance to escape. He couldn't let Mozzie get the Raphael because Neal's friend, who, according to Jones, lived in a building where the Marshalls had someone flagged for Witness Protection, probably wouldn't let Mozzie in, so Neal was stuck retrieving it.

Kramer's reason for arresting Neal was lame. Most judges would call it a prank and slap a fine on someone for jumping from tram to tram. Plus obstruction? Kramer would have to PROVE that Neal knew what Kramer's intentions were. So unless Kramer had the video going to catch Neal picking the lock on his brief case, Kramer doesn't have a case. Sara gave Neal a 'reason' for having the Raphael - to authenticate it.
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#34 CathysOpinion

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:49 PM

Peter WAS on Neal's side with the Degas. He had been working to find out the truth so that he could protect Neal. He's said as much. It's just convenient that you always seem to forget that little detail in your efforts to make Peter out to be horrible. :P

Also, I'm not sure what Neal gains by running. It seems like a stupid move. He could have gotten his sentence commuted, and fought the charges against him in court. He may have won. Kramer doesn't just get to decide to extend Neal's sentence. He has to prove Neal guilty, and the case Kramer had was flimsy. Except for "public endangerment", and that charge could have been dismissed or plead down.

I just think that this was unnecessary, and a disappointing reason for Neal to run.


I agree that it was a dumb reason to run, I just posted how Neal could have beaten all of the charges. Now Peter and Neal are in trouble. Peter is alone to answer the charges.

I do disagree that Peter was on Neal's side with the Degas. In Countdown, Peter treated Neal like a suspect and was 'partnered' with Kramer.

Edited by CathysOpinion, 28 February 2012 - 11:49 PM.

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#35 LRaine

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:51 PM

And I say to that: so what? It wouldn't have been the perfect life, but I don't know that it would have been horrible. Now Neal can never have a settled, happy life. There's always a chance now that he could be caught. He's always going to have to keep a wary eye out, and he can't really go back to New York. He essentially just ruined his life.

At worst, Neal would be working for Kramer and Peter would have had to drive to D.C. to visit him. Now Peter's career could be in shambles, Peter's destroyed his friendship with Kramer, possibly any credibility he had, and on top of that, the guys are separated.

I know, I know. The writers will fix it. But it seemed totally unnecessary to me to have Neal run because he'd have just had to serve a sentence for things he's actually done wrong.


Better that than the prisoner for life of a man like Kramer, now the latter has shown how he's prepared to use Neal... it would absolutely destroy Neal to be shackled for life, and Peter knows it., and I love Peter to bits for knowing it.

Whatever Neal has done, he doesn't deserve to be little more than a FBI tool for life.

#36 Surreal44

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:58 PM

I agree that it was a dumb reason to run, I just posted how Neal could have beaten all of the charges. Now Peter and Neal are in trouble. Peter is alone to answer the charges.

I do disagree that Peter was on Neal's side with the Degas. In Countdown, Peter treated Neal like a suspect and was 'partnered' with Kramer.


Peter was trying to prove that Neal had the Degas, or at least knowledge about it. But his intentions were very clear, both in the beginning of the season, and in that episode: He knew Neal was digging himself into a hole, and he wanted to try to curb the damage.

Peter is Neal's friend, but in the same way you might try to take a bottle of wine from a friend who is an alcoholic, Peter was trying to catch Neal in the act, and yes...make him answer for his crime BUT he also wanted to help Neal get through it.

Being a friend to Neal does not always mean letting him get away with whatever he wants.

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#37 ilee1990

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:59 PM

During the character chatter tweet, Jeff Eastin confirmed that the mystery woman in the apartment was Neal's dad's partner.

#38 Surreal44

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:01 AM

Better that than the prisoner for life of a man like Kramer, now the latter has shown how he's prepared to use Neal... it would absolutely destroy Neal to be shackled for life, and Peter knows it., and I love Peter to bits for knowing it.

Whatever Neal has done, he doesn't deserve to be little more than a FBI tool for life.


Neal is in a different type of prison now. Running for this particular thing was utterly stupid.

Neal could have beaten those charges. And Kramer wouldn't necessarily have gained custody of Neal.

Now, if they had carried on with the episode, and have Kramer get Neal's sentence extended and get custody of him....ok, maybe it would have been more reason to run.

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#39 Beholder

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:10 AM

Someone mentioned Kramer may be Neal's Dad, now that would be a twist and we would know Kramer is dirty.


After the way Kramer acted tonight....I wouldn't be surprised if this came to be.

B

#40 Duffy

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:10 AM

Peter always comes through for Neal, even if he's not always on board at first. I really hate it when you make Peter out to be a bad guy. :P


You're right , Peter has always been there for Neal and was again. It never occurred to me that yes, next year may begin in Paris. :D That would be fun and meet up with Taylor. Taylor can protect him until he's free to go home with Peter. Good job!





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