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Season 5 Re-Watch


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#281 philliesfan

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

You can watch "Le Comte de Monte Cristo" here :Le comte de Monte Cristo - Part 1
It's in French with subtitles in English and this version is with Gérard Depardieu ;)
There are many episodes but it is a very complete version of this Victor Hugo's work.
If you have the patience to see all the episodes that will help you maybe to make the paralèlle with Burn Notice.

Enjoy ! Posted Image



Thanks for the link, Souris! Maybe I'll actually watch the film now. I like Depardieu.


One correction - the book was written by Alexandre Dumas.

Edited by philliesfan, 11 March 2012 - 01:40 PM.

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#282 Souriswingette

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

Alexandre Dumas, of course ! What French I make !

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"Nul ne peut atteindre l'aube sans passer par le chemin de la nuit"

"No one can reach the dawn without going through the night way"

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#283 Tilly11

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 07:27 PM

Thanks for the great analysis of the themes of love and betrayal that run through The Count of Monte Cristo, a literary classic, and how they tie in to our favorite contemporary television program, DT and phillie!

It's nice to have our French Burn Notice fan join us here, too! Hi, again, Souri!

This week's episode, 510 "Army of One" is a tribute to a contemporary classic, Bruce Willis' "Die Hard" series of films. I admit I haven't seen all 5 films. I was exhausted after the first one! I swear, I didn't sleep for a week, so much adrenaline was running through me! But those were the days before Burn Notice was a weekly occurrence in my life. Perhaps if I'd had a regular dose of Burn Notice back then, I'd have tolerated the action and humor of Die Hard a little better. (What am I saying? Things in Miami in those years were far from "quiet", with Sonny and Tubbs!) Here's a link to Wikipedia, the Die Hard Franchise, for those who would like to know more about the films!

What is of special interest to us here on the Burn Notice Talk Show is that "Die Hard 2; Die Harder" was directed by Mr. Renny Harlin, who brought his talents to two episodes of Season 5: 514 "Breaking Point" and 518 "Fail Safe". Both episodes, by the way, left me feeling excited and exhausted, too, much like the Die Hard movie! :wacko:

*****


"Army of One" is one of my favorite episodes of Season 5. As I said when it first aired, I've always wanted there to be an episode in which Madeline was in a hostage situation and witnessed Michael work his magic undercover. Except for the fact that he didn't speak Russian or Farsi (Madeline's reaction would have been priceless! :D ), I pretty much got my wish!


The honeymoon seems to be over for Mike and Fi, as Sam notices. I hope phillie can explain to me exactly what Fi meant when she complained that Michael can find room for her snowglobes but he can’t seem to figure out how she fits into his life. I never understand Fi!


I'm the one who likes to look at the story lines and how they all tie together. I've forgotten to think about what Anson and Tavian have been up to lately, but let's give it a little thought here, because we're getting closer to the convergence of the two stories. Anson's behind the scenes scheming will soon be made apparent to Michael, and Anson will directly, rather than indirectly, control Michael's life.

I think that in 510 there is finally the realization for Tavian/Anson that the plan to frame Michael for Max’s murder has not worked. Lucien was hired by Tavian to plant the bomb to kill Jacob Starkey, tying up that loose end in the frame-up of Michael. For all Anson & Tavian knew, Lucien was successful. Jacob Starky wouldn't be telling anyone he, not Michael Westen purchased a cell phone that was used at the scene and time of the murder of Max. The CIA's investigation would eventually wind up at Michael Westen's doorstep, because of the evidence that they had planted. They didn't know Michael had destroyed the gun that bore his fingerprints, and that Sam had found the box of bullets planted in the car that Michael drove to meet Max that day.

Lucien’s "distress call" at Connie's Cafe in 509 alerted Tavian for first time that something was wrong. At the beginning of 510, Tavian has somehow (ideas, anyone?) found the place in Hialeah where Michael and Sam were keeping Lucien. Rather than kill them and rescue Lucien, as Lucien expected, Tavian opened fire, intending to kill all three. He thought that worked when the shed blew up.

Imagine Tavian's surprise to be followed to the warehouse, and his chagrin at having to destroy his computer. Michael Westen is becoming a real thorn in his side, refusing to be a tidy victim of the murder set-up. And while Tavian was confident that none of his information remained on the computer, he will soon see that is not so.

Looking at these events from Tavian's point of view, it makes sense that he will try to negotiate with Michael. Here in 510 he is beginning to understand that Michael Westen is an unstoppable son-of-a-bitch.

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#284 radb

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:18 PM

One thing that I've been wondering, when did Anson realize that his plan of framing Michael failed, and started to plan the whole Larry thing? Cause that surely needed time for planning and executing...

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#285 Lucazzy

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

One thing that I've been wondering, when did Anson realize that his plan of framing Michael failed, and started to plan the whole Larry thing? Cause that surely needed time for planning and executing...


He probably planned it far in advance just in case framing Michael went wrong. Contingency plan.

(BTW I'm back! Some of you may remember me :) )
Shows that everyone should watch:

-Burn Notice (Best characters, great acting)
-Breaking Bad (Best character development and excellent acting)
-24 (Master of cliffhanger, thrilling show)
-Prison Break (Similar to 24, massive government conspiracy and that good stuff)
-Lost (Great acting, character development. Great sci-fi show)
-Homeland (Realistic, entertaining thriller)
-Game of Thrones (Fantasy for people that hate fantasy. Awesome actors, well written characters, tons of twists. Read books first!)

#286 beancheile

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:33 PM

The honeymoon seems to be over for Mike and Fi, as Sam notices. I hope phillie can explain to me exactly what Fi meant when she complained that Michael can find room for her snowglobes but he can't seem to figure out how she fits into his life. I never understand Fi!


"Michaelcan find room for my snowglobes in his apartment but he can't seem to figureout how I fit into his life."

Ah, snowglobes, the metaphor for the Michael and Fiona romance! Michael welcomed her to Miami back in Wanted Man with one, certainly inferring that he was glad Fiona was back in his life. He asked her to move in with him in Company Man and offered to build her a shelf for them. We had a discussion last week in the Shipper Thursday thread and I posted that Michael has adapted very well to the physical changes in his environment since Fi moved in but is still figuring out how to live as a couple. I think that Fi's statement here in Army of One reflects that. He built her a shelf, learned to live with flowers and knick-knacks, but really hasn't been a very supportive partner. Yes, he has his hands full with his CIA jobs and tracking Max's murderer, but as we mentioned in our discussion, it's the little things that sometimes count in building a life together.

Fi has been busily assisting tracking down all the leads from Max's murder…and yes, Michael will reciprocate ten fold shortly. She was promised dinner at The Forge, understood when the lead on the bomber took precedence, then found out the reservation hadn't even been made. She drove all the way to Tallahassee to search Lucien's apartment and was promised two dinners at The Forge though Fi looked very skeptical that would ever happen. Not only hasn't she got dinner at The Forge, I don't think she even got dinner at the Carlito. Sam seems to get thanked with beers and mojitos, maybe she should start asking for drinks instead of dinners.

In Army of One, Sam and Michael follow up on Lucien's lead to the warehouse where Tavian would be found. During the drive from Tallahassee to the warehouse, neither Sam nor Michael call or text Fi, informing her of this latest development.

"So,the guy who shot Max finally pokes his head out and no one thinks to call me."F

"I wanted to, believe me. There just wasn't time." M

"You keep me on the sidelines again, you can bandage your own burns." F

Later in the episode, Fi again is attending to Michael's wounds and hands Michael the flash drive holding the information Dixon retrieved. Michael sincerely thanks her and then he's off.

"I should go," (Fiona raises an eyebrow) "Pearce is waiting." M

"Of course she is." Fi

Michael grabs the files and pauses a moment at the door and Fi looks away. She is definitely feeling a bit excluded and probably under appreciated. Michael did need to leave but the way that he pauses at the door and looks at her, he does seem to realize that she is upset but says nothing. This would have been a good moment to say…BTW made that reservation at The Forge for Thursday (if he actually followed through) or how about catching a bite after my meeting.

In Hard Out, Madeline points out that "A woman needs to be appreciated, Michael. Like taking Fiona out more often." Even in their busy, stress filled lives, small acts of kindness go a long way to show someone you care. That's the day-to-day stuff Fi refers to as being the hard work of a relationship. And that's what I feel she is referring to again when she explains to Sam that Michael hasn't figured out how she fits into his life.


Edited by beancheile, 12 March 2012 - 10:36 PM.

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#287 philliesfan

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Thanks, bean!

I always loved the Welcome To Miami snowglobe for its obvious implications. I always loved the // that Michael built her a shelf for the snowglobes in 502, signifying she was welcome into not just his life, but into his home, because she had taken up residence in his heart already, and he was finally ready to admit that.

I agree with you, bean, that it then makes perfect sense for Fi to reference the snowglobes here, and why she feels a bit left out of Michael's life.

One correction - and it didn't occur to me 'til halfway through my rewatch of 509 - when Michael came to Jesse to be "fitted" for a window, so to speak - While they never mentioned the fact, Michael & Sam took Lucien back to Miami for the interrogation. So it makes sense that they didn't have time to call Fi for backup. They rushed from their interrogation site to the address Lucien gave them - They are still in the same clothes at the beginning of 510 as they wore at the end of 509.

[It is at minimum a 6 hour drive from Miami to Tallahassee (going 80 MPH) - There is no way MIchael could have made all those back-and-forth trips - even Sam helps Jesse at one point. It would have been impractical - especially considering Lucien would have been left alone all that long, long time.

The time he's alone is considerably shortened by the explanation that they took him to Miami. It also then makes more sense that Fi was asked to drive to Lucien's apartment, rather than Michael or Sam (if they were in Tallahassee, it would have made more sense for one of them to search Lucien's place). And explains how Michael helped with the job for Dan and still beat Sam back to Lucien, when Sam went to a cafe (no way would he have beat Sam if he'd had to drive from Tallahassee to Miami and back). Furthermore, it makes sense logistically - They know the Miami area and thus would know where there's a good spot to hold the interrogation.

Finally, the proof, which Tilly pointed out to me before I heard it for myself - In 510, Pearce references Lucien's murder in Haileah - not Tallahassee.]


But back to the snowglobes. Ever since 518 ended, I keep picturing Michael waking up with those snowglobes staring at him, confronting him with the painful reminder that Fiona is absent. :(

Edited by philliesfan, 12 March 2012 - 10:58 PM.

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#288 beancheile

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:27 PM

Thanks, bean!

I always loved the Welcome To Miami snowglobe for its obvious implications. I always loved the // that Michael built her a shelf for the snowglobes in 502, signifying she was welcome into not just his life, but into his home, because she had taken up residence in his heart already, and he was finally ready to admit that.

I agree with you, bean, that it then makes perfect sense for Fi to reference the snowglobes here, and why she feels a bit left out of Michael's life.

One correction - and it didn't occur to me 'til halfway through my rewatch of 509 - when Michael came to Jesse to be "fitted" for a window, so to speak - While they never mentioned the fact, Michael & Sam took Lucien back to Miami for the interrogation. So it makes sense that they didn't have time to call Fi for backup. They rushed from their interrogation site to the address Lucien gave them - They are still in the same clothes at the beginning of 510 as they wore at the end of 509.

[It is at minimum a 6 hour drive from Miami to Tallahassee (going 80 MPH) - There is no way MIchael could have made all those back-and-forth trips - even Sam helps Jesse at one point. It would have been impractical - especially considering Lucien would have been left alone all that long, long time.

The time he's alone is considerably shortened by the explanation that they took him to Miami. It also then makes more sense that Fi was asked to drive to Lucien's apartment, rather than Michael or Sam (if they were in Tallahassee, it would have made more sense for one of them to search Lucien's place). And explains how Michael helped with the job for Dan and still beat Sam back to Lucien, when Sam went to a cafe (no way would he have beat Sam if he'd had to drive from Tallahassee to Miami and back). Furthermore, it makes sense logistically - They know the Miami area and thus would know where there's a good spot to hold the interrogation.

Finally, the proof, which Tilly pointed out to me before I heard it for myself - In 510, Pearce references Lucien's murder in Haileah - not Tallahassee.]


But back to the snowglobes. Ever since 518 ended, I keep picturing Michael waking up with those snowglobes staring at him, confronting him with the painful reminder that Fiona is absent. :(


Your timeline explanation makes much more sense. Still think they could have let her know what was happening even if they couldn't wait for her. A quick text would suffice but I do realize their thought was on developing a plan to catch Tavian...a higher, more immediate priority.

As for post 518, I'll I could think was the Dickens line, "I see a crutch without an owner, carefully preserved," as an analogy for Fi's snowglobes in the loft. *sniff* *tear*

Edited by beancheile, 12 March 2012 - 11:31 PM.

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#289 philliesfan

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:07 AM

Your timeline explanation makes much more sense. Still think they could have let her know what was happening even if they couldn't wait for her. A quick text would suffice but I do realize their thought was on developing a plan to catch Tavian...a higher, more immediate priority.

As for post 518, I'll I could think was the Dickens line, "I see a crutch without an owner, carefully preserved," as an analogy for Fi's snowglobes in the loft. *sniff* *tear*


I was only thinking that at the moment Sam wanted backup, Michael's point that there was no time to wait for it was valid. You're right, they could have contacted Fi on their way from Hiaileah to Wynwood (or wherever Lucien said as he was dying), and had they done so, perhaps she'd have had time to meet them there.

I would like to add that it seems to me that Fi handles Michael's risk-taking much better when she is able to be there with him, backing him up with a gun or a detonator. It makes sense that she feels a measure of control that way, the sense that she might be able to protect him. When she is nowhere near him, she can't even be a witness to his death, should it come to that. I just think she worries more when she doesn't accompany him, and that makes her feel off-balance and out of sorts. Naturally, both of them do dangerous jobs apart from the other, they are somewhat inured to danger, and they each trust the other's abilities - are reasonably confident that each can handle themselves in risky situations. Thus they don't worry as much as you or I would. But at times, the danger seems heightened and it pierces even their tough facades.

So when Fi is left out of Michael's work for too long, not only does she feel out of sorts because she feels left out of the loop and left out of the "fun" (recalling her words in 501 about it not being fair Max got to have all the fun), but she may also feel out of sorts because she backing him up (i.e., protecting him) is removed from her control. I'm not sure about his, but I used to always get that sense in earlier seasons.

Oh, and bean, nice Dickens analogy! Sniff, sniff indeed!


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#290 auroracat

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:06 AM

Given how often one of Michael's jobs has gone sideways, even just meetings - I think the reason he doesn't say something about getting dinner after his meeting with Pearce is that he has learned the hard way not to make plans. In his mind it is probably better not to offer if there is just a good chance he will have to cancel unexpectedly.

I put this down to Venus vs. Mars thinking. The woman would like to know that he at least has thought about it, even if he has to cancel and the man thinks it's worse to make the plans and then cancel...

Also, I think the reason that Michael didn't even text Fi about the Tavian lead is two fold - one, when he's focused on a job/mission he is very "male hunter" in that, that is all he thinks about. Remember men are hard wired to be focused on the sole objective, i.e. the hunt and women are hard wired to multi-task, i.e. take care of the children and gather, etc. at the same time. And the second reason is that even though he knows Fi can handle herself, he really doesn't want her exposed to danger unnecessarily and he also wants her to have some plausible deniability.

#291 philliesfan

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

I agree that Michael's brain is overtaken by his mission, that he is very focused, A-cat.

One very simple explanation for Fi's remarks of discontent this mid-season comes from Gabrielle Anwar, who I remember said something like there would be conflict like there often was in a relationship between work and relationship. It's not really different than what bean said in that it reflected a woman's frustration at having to compete with the job for her partner's attention (and I think it's not just women who get jealous of work getting in the way of relationship), but it reinforces that this is a normal conflict, and it's straight from "Fiona"s mouth.

Edited by philliesfan, 13 March 2012 - 10:08 AM.

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#292 beancheile

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

Army of One is an episode that proves Michael Westen sometimes is completely wrong about things. Back in Trust Me he notes, "Guys. Guys. Wife beaters. Not a great look." Well, maybe not for some...Posted Image

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Not a great look for some...but then...

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Edited by beancheile, 13 March 2012 - 07:40 PM.

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#293 Tilly11

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:15 PM

Good morning :)

I have a question for all you stats people

How many times has Michael been called 'killer' by the bad guy(s)?

After watching Army Of One I realized that he was called 'killer' by one of the bad guys and it flashed in my head Fearless Leader. So I got to thinking... did it happen in any other episodes or just these two.

"Killer"

S3 Fearless Leader
S5 Army Of One



That's a good one! I'd never noticed that Mikey has been called "killer"

I HAVE noticed that he's been referred to as a "Toy" many times, and am tempted to go back and make notes of THAT!

One that comes to mind is when Simon called Michael "Vaughn's shiny new toy" in Hard Time.


*****



Thanks, Bean and phillie! I knew you'd have an insight into Fiona's mind!

Although... I must say that by this point, Fiona must surely know who Michael is; what he's good at, and what he's not so good at. It's all part and parcel of the guy she loves. Frankly, he's made great strides in the relationship department! Compare his sweet awkward invitation to move in with him to Michael Westen in the pilot, who is awkward even when he says he's not so good at relationships. "Relationships, they're just not my thing..."


One thing that I've been wondering, when did Anson realize that his plan of framing Michael failed, and started to plan the whole Larry thing? Cause that surely needed time for planning and executing...





Good question, radb!

Until this point in the series, I think that Tavian and Anson had no reason not to believe that Michael would fall under suspicion of killing Max. They think that Michael has the gun and that it will be found, and that the investigation would reveal the box of bullets in the car Michael drove. They know the bodega videotapes will become part of the investigation, and that they will point to Michael because Jacob Starkey looks so much like him. They think Jake was killed in the boat explosion that was rigged by expert bomber Lucien. Until Lucien sent his "distress call" to "Nikolai" at the diner, there was no indication that Michael was closing in on them.

That being said, let's remember that Anson is not without his "assets", including Benny who was introduced just a few days ago in Eye for an Eye. Rebecca Lange must be under Anson's thumb by now too, don't you think? Maybe Benny learned something from Madeline after all. Or maybe Rebecca was able to tell Anson that the gun or box of bullets hadn't been found, or that the videotapes were not yet in CIA custody.

He probably planned it far in advance just in case framing Michael went wrong. Contingency plan.

(BTW I'm back! Some of you may remember me :) )


Good suggestion, and welcome back, Lucazzy! :D

The last time I sprung an insane killer from an Albanian prison, it actually went pretty quickly. Take too long, and there's a possibility of a leak, and being found out. So I just bribed a prison guard to let the insane killer bribe him, greased palms along the way and left cryptic messages until the insane killer got in touch with me. The whole process didn't take all that long- maybe a week or two. The hardest part was arranging things so that the insane killer thought it was all his idea.

I'd identified the insane killer quite a while before I sprung him, though, as you suggest, Lucazzy ;) . I thought it was actually quite a convenience to keep him right where I knew where he was until I decided that I needed him.

I tell you what, that's the last time the cable guy keeps me waiting at the house all day. :P

I think you're right that Anson is clever enough to have a back-up plan. As far as I can tell, there is no indication of how much time has elapsed between 510 Army of One and 511 Better Halves, or how much time elapsed during 511. At the beginning of 512, Michael appears to have been questioned by Pearce for a period of time, as well. So I think there may have been time for Anson to arrange Larry's "escape" and to hire him between 509 Eye for an Eye, when Lucien sent his "distress call," and 512 Dead to Rights, when Larry and Anson appear.

But, as beancheile says, "The BN timeline is always a bit of a mystery, isn't it?"

Edited by Tilly11, 13 March 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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Thank You to fanatic174 for this Sig!


#294 bcmom

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

OMG!!! I had to rescue this off of the second page :o

anyway... Army Of One is now completely posted. Hope you have enjoyed the view B)
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#295 philliesfan

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:37 PM

The last time I sprung an insane killer from an Albanian prison, it actually went pretty quickly. Take too long, and there's a possibility of a leak, and being found out. So I just bribed a prison guard to let the insane killer bribe him, greased palms along the way and left cryptic messages until the insane killer got in touch with me. The whole process didn't take all that long- maybe a week or two. The hardest part was arranging things so that the insane killer thought it was all his idea.

I'd identified the insane killer quite a while before I sprung him, though, as you suggest, Lucazzy ;) . I thought it was actually quite a convenience to keep him right where I knew where he was until I decided that I needed him.

I tell you what, that's the last time the cable guy keeps me waiting at the house all day. :P


Hilarious stuff, Tilly! Posted Image

I also agree with you and Lucazzy (Welcome back, by the way!) that Anson seems a thorough and cautious enough man to have a back-up plan. He has observed Michael Westen thwart the Machine more than once - - Has observed Michael dismantle the Machine, in fact. Michael would not need to remind him "You need to know that I can be pretty dangerous, too." (Words to Vaughn in 409.)

Although I can see how one could argue that Anson is so confident as to maybe think he's got a foolproof plan in place - as he will say about his machinations in S5.5. In which case, if he thinks his framing of Michael is foolproof, then he might not plan the whole "break Larry out of prison and get Fiona to kill him at a consulate" strategy right away. I would argue that he might have expected - or at the very least, hoped - that Pearce's investigation would lead to Michael very quickly, since all the pieces to frame him had been carefully laid. In which case, just the fact that Michael was not arrested within the first few weeks after Max's murder might have caused Anson to worry and put his elaborate Plan B into place.

* * * * *

510 "Army Of One" - Michael had to work as hard on this "cakewalk" job as he had to work on the "practically a vacation" extraction job of 508.

Looking back to a VO from 508: "As a general rule, spies prefer to steal information quietly. It's a lot easier to (...) hack a computer (...) than it is to grab something from someone who's armed and angry. But like any job, some days are just harder than others."

In 510:

* Michael thinks all he has to do is hack a computer for Holcomb

* The information he learns from this would have been passed along to Jesse (i.e., stolen quietly)

* Jesse would then use that info to know how to protect his client, Grombach, from industrial espionage or theft of information. This would all be quick and easy.

* Instead, Michael learns that Holcomb and his men are armed.

They want to take Jesse's client from his plane at gunpoint and drain his bank accounts. They are going to likewise hold anyone found at the small private airport hostage until they get the billionaire & his money, plus they plan to kill the Grombach's bodyguards. So much for quick and easy information gathering!

* Michael now has to stop the violence and theft from occurring and save the hostages from danger – just Michael, with limited help from his mom and Jesse. (I.e., some days are harder than others.)

* * * * * * * *
Michael's strategy resembles his strategy in 508.

* Michael invents a culprit, which:

1) Gives him someone to blame for all the sabotaging that he himself will be doing.

2) Forces Holcomb to look for this threat to his aims rather than to simply carry out his aims unimpeded.

3) Makes Michael important to Holcomb, as someone who has ideas about how to thwart the invisible enemy.

//

In 508, Michael created a scapegoat to make Vanderwaal rely on him as an ally while he used the fake enemy as cover for his own attempts to procure a file from Vanderwaal.

* * * * *

* Holcomb is cautious and reluctant to trust Michael alone. This makes it more difficult for Michael to achieve his goal of making "Marsden" look guilty while he frees the hostages. And Ward is constantly suspicious of Michael. He resents that Michael dares to act like an equal by asserting his own ideas for how to proceed and isn't inclined to view Michael as an ally.

//

In 508, Vanderwaal was a tough sell who was predisposed to mistrust Michael and resented his attempts to share power – even if Michael was only being "helpful"



* Even though Michael successfully convinces them that Marsden is a real person and a real threat, Holcomb still becomes sure that Michael is in cahoots with Marsden - which is true.

//

In 508, Michael's life is in danger when Vanderwaal takes him to meet the Commander whom Michael has accused of stealing the file that Michael actually wants to take, and the Commander accuses Michael in turn - which is true.

Also // to:

506: Sam has to make Carmelo believe that the Serbian he takes hostage with Samis lying about the Serbs' innocence with regard to the theft of drugs which Sam has pinned on him. He has to sell– with help from Michael & Jesse – his own lies as truth and the Serb's truth as lies.

Conclusion: The middle of S5 features several episodes where Team Westen's lies to the bad guys implicate another person (in 510, that person doesn't exist, whereas in 506 & 508 that person is real but innocent of what Team Westen accuses). All of these are precarious situations (as Pearce called Sam's) in which Team Westen is dealing with an armed, dangerous, careful and distrustful criminal who would kill them should their lies be discovered.


Edited by philliesfan, 16 March 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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#296 DuctTape

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:37 AM

Army of One
Phillie, I didn't see this on your list. Mentioned already and I missed it? Well last summer I mentioned it, but I don't think I wrote details. And it makes me happy so:

// Bad Breaks (213)

* Michael single handedly takes on a team of robbers who have taken hostages.
* Robbers after a huge pay day - a fortune.
* MW is inside.
* The robbers (bad guys BG) let him work and somewhat trust him.
* While pretending to help, Michael utilizes his spy training to injure team members, infuse distrust, chaos, take apart their plans, and protect the hostages.
* MW "dreams up" another person, claiming this man is powerful and the robbers should be afraid (510 Marsden, 213 Owner of the Bank).
* An explosion convinces them MW's claim is true (Car at airport, 213 FedEx truck).
* MW knows at least one fellow hostage.
* MW knows the robbers in advance (if not their intentions or homicidal tendencies).
* MW calls Team Westen to create hole for him & hostages to escape.
* They never use it.
* MW gets a gun but doesn't use it on robbers
* Fellow hostage (Maddie, Bly) knocks out a robber when he was going to kill all the hostages.
* And MW succeeds :) and the robbers are arrested.


...How many times has Michael been called 'killer' by the bad guy(s)?... did it happen in any other episodes or just these two."Killer"S3 Fearless LeaderS5 Army Of One

:o Larry called Michael "Killer," which makes sense from their past and his goal of recruiting Michael to "kill" with him. I keep seeing Larry's face saying: "Go gettum Killer."


Posted Image

Yum. Thank you for pointing this out Bean. It's funny, although the tank term is "wife beater," in Trust Me it was the loan sharks who were beaten.


Tilly, I had no idea releasing an insane killer from Albania goes pretty quickly. It was helpful to hear your testimony: "So I just bribed a prison guard to let the insane killer bribe him, greased palms along the way and left cryptic messages until the insane killer got in touch with me." Until then, I had assumed Anson had a back up plan.


Phillie, you have your own seminar on the daily threads:

Cover ID Sunday - Jesse impersonating an FBI agent who's demanded clear airspace.

Maddie Monday - "Here's Marsden, you son of a bitch!"

Guest Star Tuesday - Holcomb & Dixon.

Westen Wednesday - Amazing as you quoted Michael throughout the airport heist.

bcmom, you rock! With pics on the daily threads and the Screen Cap pages. This week favs:

Shipper Thursday - More "wife beater" tank t--shirt indulgence

Fiona Friday - love her glee tazing and holding a knife.

Edited by DuctTape, 17 March 2012 - 02:49 AM.


 

 

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Lots of places in the world with C4 and yogurt


#297 philliesfan

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:32 PM

I figured someone would bring up "Bad Breaks", DT, and I'm glad for your list of //s. I just decided to focus on mid-season 5, that's all, because it seems Michael (and Sam) has been in the position of inventing a scapegoat and nearly getting caught in his lie and killed, frequently this mid-season. Great job with the 213 // 510 list!

Nice memory about Larry calling Michael "killer", too.

Speaking of killing, I know that Tilly has been keeping a count of how many people are killed by Team Westen.

In 510, Ward is killed. The question is, whodunit?

Borrowing from NatashaFatale's fabulously creative BN-"Clue" captions * * (see note) , done before my time for the "What Are They Saying" thread, I bring you two Clue-inspired suspects in the mystery of Ward's death.

Was it....

Posted Image




Or was Ward merely wounded in this attack that saved her son's life?

Was it, rather...

Posted Image



You decide - please - so that Tilly can attribute Ward's death to the correct member of Team Westen. I do believe this would be Maddie's first victim, whereas it would be Michael's 10th or possibly even his 11th, 12th, or 13th. Tilly?

So, whom do you accuse?

* * Note: Thanks, Natasha, for your creativity and humor! To see her Clue cards, start with post #1995 on this page: http://forums.usanet...=390845&st=1980

Edited by philliesfan, 17 March 2012 - 02:45 PM.

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#298 Tilly11

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:41 PM

Uh-oh. :o Looks like I’d better go find my Counting List! *rummaging around in my computer*

Ah here it is. Way down in the bottom, under a roll of duct tape, with some linty chewing gum and a listening device stuck to it. * blows it off * *blows it off again * Heeeeere we go:

I’ve decided not to count the person shown as “eliminated” during the voice-over at the beginning of 501. It’s a… judgment call.

To play phillie’s game of “Clue”, I’ll go with Michael the Spy in the Warehouse with the Grenade.

People are hit on the head and fall down and are knocked out without being killed all the time. Not that I’m speaking from personal experience, mind you, but I do watch television, and they get up and walk away lots on TV. In the real world too, I’m guessing. They may have one Atomic bomb of a headache, see stars and forget their names, but they aren’t always dead. Although frankly, that was a mighty big wrench thingy, and I think Ward could easily be no longer of this world. But, failing Michael saying “Oh my goodness, Ma! You killed him! Thanks!”, we don’t really know that Maddie killed him. I’d love Alfredo Barrios, the writer of the episode, to chime in to tell us his intent. I will say that I loved the appearance of Madeline the Mama Bear, who could indeed kill someone to save her son.

What is certain is that Michael administered the coup de gras, in blowing up the warehouse. If Ward was only “mostly dead” before the blast, he’s “really quite sincerely dead” after.

People MW kills:
Pilot: Thug in Nigeria
Pilot: Second thug in Nigeria
109 Hard Bargain : Perry Clark
112 Loose Ends: Harrick
216 Lesser Evil- Victor
309 Long Way Back- Strickler
(Gustavo was accidental)

501 Kessler’s first guard
501 Kessler’s second guard.
510 Ward in the warehouse with the grenade.

I realize I’ve been remiss in counting explosions, too, so here are the

Explosions in 510
- SUV
- Airplane
- Warehouse


In rewatching season 5, I’ve noticed that Michael has a few tried and true tricks up his sleeve, that he uses with good results.

One is to out-yell the bad guys. He yells orders at the bad guys in 510. He yelled a lot in Hard Out. And I remember him yelling at his boss the murderous art dealer in 212, Seek and Destroy.

Another is to talk about himself to the bad guy. He did it in 212, describing the spy trying to steal the Lady in White, ending with the statement, “He’s right here”. In Hard Out he had fun taunting Vanderwaal:

“You think we’re intruders who just landed on this island? We walked right up to you to tell you you have a broken comm link?”

“One of two things is possible. Either Jackson ripped you off and we caught him red-handed, … Or, you let a mysterious super-genius take over your island, turn your op inside out, and detain your commander’s men. Which is more likely?”


**BTW- I think that great MW line, “That was compelling, and rich” is right out of the film “Anchorman” Does anyone know for sure???**

Now in 510, he describes himself to Holcomb when telling them of “Jack Marsden’s” training:

“Turns out Marsden’s an explosives expert…Apparently, blowing things up is one of the few tricks he picked up from the Special Forces…You’re dealing with a highly trained ex-Ranger. He probably overheard your warning about calling the cops and took matters into his own hands.” As he points at himself!

Oh my goodness, speaking of lists, there is also the list of Bad Guys manipulated into killing Bad Guys.

People MW or TW manipulate into killng each other
103 Identity:Di Santos
107 Broken Rules Diego kills Concha w/ bomb
203 Trust Me Zeke killed by his 2 scam partners. Assumed, not shown
204 Comrades Ivan gets killed by the other Russians
205 Kandi kills Timo.
206 Eddie swims with the fishes
209 Lesher trips on a knife.
212 Orr kills Chandler.
213 Prescott kills henchman #1
213 Prescott kills henchman #2
302 Santora shot by men guarding boy
306 Vlad shot by Checkik
402 Kahn shoots Lee
402 Lee shoots Kahn
410 Cruz killed by La Nacion
411 Sam told Charles that Martin the money manager wants to kill him.
413 Dennis Wayne Barfield kills Adam Scott
413 Dennis Wayne Barfield kills Adam Scott’s Bodyguard
415 Caleb kills innocent Buckwild ??????
415 Rivera kills Caleb

Off the top of my head, I'm adding:

506 Carmelo kills the Serbian
508 Vanderwall kills Commander Jackson
509 Tavian kills Lucien


There must be more from Season 5. By all means, remind me!


*****


Now, we can saddle up and get ready for the Shippery goodness and delicious shirtlessness and oh yeah, thrilling PLOT and Action-Adventure in Foreign Lands that Lisa Joy served up in 511 Better Halves!

OFF WE GO!!!

(p.s. this episode also marks the end of the blissful ignorance of Anson, whose shadow over the following episodes eclipses the strides that Michael has made over the past 4 years.)

Edited by Tilly11, 18 March 2012 - 05:56 PM.

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Thank You to fanatic174 for this Sig!


#299 philliesfan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:21 PM

Re: Whodunit? I like the idea of Maddie being the do Ward in, like you do, Tilly. For that reason alone, I think she gets my vote - plus it makes Michael's explosion cover up the evidence that his mom killed someone (I hope).


Speaking of Maddie, I wanted to devote a bit more time to Maddie in 510:

Michael relies on his mom - and Maddie is calm under pressure in this episode!

She is confident that Michael will protect her and the other hostages. She asserts herself as a leader of the hostages, assuring them they will be fine and giving them an example of calm (v. panic) to follow.

At a crucial moment, she effectively saves the hostages lives by talking them out of surrendering to Holcomb (while in the warehouse after running away from the upstairs of the airport terminal):

Maddie: "No, if we do (surrender), we all die. My son''ll get us out of this. (...) We've already run once, they're not gonna risk that again. If we surrender, they're gonna kill us. If we stay and fight, you know, we have a chance!"

She starts to leave, intending to hide out back. When she notices everyone is hesitating to follow her, she loses patience and exhorts them bluntly: "Anyone who wants to die, stay here. If you don't, follow me."

Michael has entrusted her with the task of keeping the hostages calm, and she does it.

In addition:

· * She makes a scene exactly as he asked, when Michael asked, without hesitation.

· * She drugs Landiss for Michael.

· * She saves her son by whacking Ward on the back of the head at the moment he's about to kill Michael.

· * She takes the gun from Michael (while still holding the giant wrench in her other hand, LOL) and calmly fires at crates to keep Holcomb away.


Sharon Gless has said Matt Nix once told her that Michael gets his moxie from his mom, and that was certainly seen in 510!

* * * * * * *

In addition to taking note of Maddie's moxie, let's acknowledge how hard it must have been for Michael to cede those files to Agent Pearce - knowing they would lead her to him! At least in my opinion, it would not be an easy thing to do. I know he has his cool spy nerves of steel, but I do wonder whether his heart might have been beating faster than normal when he handed that box of evidence over to her...

I remember editor Zack Arnold said that he used the same music cue in this scene as he did when Michael spoke to Vaughn at the end of 410 "Hard Time" - when he told Vaughn "I just told a psychopath what he wanted to hear." At that moment, he was deceiving Vaughn - not letting Vaughn know that he had learned from Simon's tape that Vaughn was instrumental in burning him and might in fact consider Simon's suggestion to kill him. In 510, the music cue is also used at a moment of deception - after all the ways in which he has intefered with the murder investigation have flashed through his mind (taking the key log, escaping from off the roof, burning the murder weapon, suppressing the tape of fake Michael purchasing the burner phone). He hears in his head: "I covered my tracks, so I covered the tracks of the killer." He then says to Pearce: "I can always do more" - letting her believe he is nothing but helpful and forthcoming, when in fact he'd like to suppress more evidence that would falsely implicate him. Cue the music. The music chosen evokes a sense of danger, foreboding.

* * * * *
Thanks for leading us into the wonderful 511, Tilly!


And now, time for a commercial from our sponsor of episode 510:


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Edited by philliesfan, 18 March 2012 - 06:39 PM.

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#300 Tilly11

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

HAAAAAAA!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Love the tie ad! If I'd seen that a while ago, I wouldn't have needed to spring the insane killer from prison in Albania! I could have taken care of my problem... another way! :rolleyes:

(I'm going to snap up all the polyester neckties I come across at Goodwill, now that I know I qualify for a Senior discount.)

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Thank You to fanatic174 for this Sig!





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