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Why do We Watch?


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#1 Nehth

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 03:24 AM

Being a writer can be a dangerous thing because it's so incredibly alluring to become possessed by one's personal emotional rushes and completely forget that there's an audience out there - one that needs a reason to tune in and watch the show each week. The 9/1 episode gave us nothing that we tune in to see. Mike displayed no special abilities for that episode. For the entire episode he was reduced to a stupid, naive idiot who did nothing but lose and stammer and screw things up. Any schmuck off the street could have done everything he did for the entire episode. I don't tune in to see Mike reduced to Jell-o. I tune in to see Mike kick a**. I don't tune in to see Jessica save the day. She is supporting cast; the show is not about her. Yet she was the only one who did anything mentionable. I don't tune in to see Louis win - especially at Harvey and Mike's expense. And above all else, I don't watch the show to see Harvey reduced to a common, no-talent loser who does nothing but struggle - for two consecutive episodes.

The writer(s) are becoming lost in their own personal head trip emotional rushes and seem to be completely forgetting there's an audience who they're writing for, and are going to lose if they keep taking away the entire reason we watch the show. We don't want to see Mike and Harvey get their butts kicked by Louis. We have real life for that kind of stuff. Mike has to win *sometimes* or he's just another schmuck where even Snoopy and Charlie Brown could kick his butt without much effort. He needs to get some skill and talent real quick or me and a few million others are not going to have any reason to watch the show anymore. And Harvey needs to lose the Jell-o state he's been put in and go back to being Harvey. This show has moved to very dangerous ground and indications are next week will only be worse.

#2 PhilDiffy

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:00 AM

Being a writer can be a dangerous thing because it's so incredibly alluring to become possessed by one's personal emotional rushes and completely forget that there's an audience out there - one that needs a reason to tune in and watch the show each week. The 9/1 episode gave us nothing that we tune in to see. Mike displayed no special abilities for that episode. For the entire episode he was reduced to a stupid, naive idiot who did nothing but lose and stammer and screw things up. Any schmuck off the street could have done everything he did for the entire episode. I don't tune in to see Mike reduced to Jell-o. I tune in to see Mike kick a**. I don't tune in to see Jessica save the day. She is supporting cast; the show is not about her. Yet she was the only one who did anything mentionable. I don't tune in to see Louis win - especially at Harvey and Mike's expense. And above all else, I don't watch the show to see Harvey reduced to a common, no-talent loser who does nothing but struggle - for two consecutive episodes.

The writer(s) are becoming lost in their own personal head trip emotional rushes and seem to be completely forgetting there's an audience who they're writing for, and are going to lose if they keep taking away the entire reason we watch the show. We don't want to see Mike and Harvey get their butts kicked by Louis. We have real life for that kind of stuff. Mike has to win *sometimes* or he's just another schmuck where even Snoopy and Charlie Brown could kick his butt without much effort. He needs to get some skill and talent real quick or me and a few million others are not going to have any reason to watch the show anymore. And Harvey needs to lose the Jell-o state he's been put in and go back to being Harvey. This show has moved to very dangerous ground and indications are next week will only be worse.


You're write about Mike, and wrong about Harvey.

Macht did an excellent job - he needed to show the chinks in Harvey's seemingly invincible armor. That he does care, and feel. Harvey's been fine all the way till now.

Mike, on the other hand, yes. He needs to win. Something. Anything, to show he can cut it.
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#3 Nehth

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 10:49 AM

You're write about Mike, and wrong about Harvey.

Macht did an excellent job - he needed to show the chinks in Harvey's seemingly invincible armor. That he does care, and feel. Harvey's been fine all the way till now.

Mike, on the other hand, yes. He needs to win. Something. Anything, to show he can cut it.


I agree with the concept, but consider the overall episode as a whole. This end (showing Harvey is human) can be attained while still giving him *some* victory in the course of the show. He doesn't need to lose 100% and do it 100% of the time. This was only compounded by Mike being reduced to an incompetent blithering idiot who was hammered by Jenny, Rachel, Louis, and everybody else he came into contact with. Some wins need to be mixed up with the losses and character development can still occur. Now my girlfriend and I are afraid to tune in next week because judging by the previews we saw, next week's episode is only going to be more of the same, only worse. Enough of the good guys losing *every single time.* It's like the entire reason I watched the show was destroyed, in spades. Creating a story has to be balanced with that story having some appeal to its audience. Generally I watch the show to see things I can't see in real life; things to believe in, things to create hope for the world. That concept seems to have departed Suits entirely. The bad guys always win, the good guys always lose. Big deal. We can get that anywhere.

#4 Maka556

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:01 AM

Never trust a promo. Promos are always filled with the most dramatic moments strung together, often out of order or context, in order to attract viewer attention.

I really have no idea what the hell you're talking about with the good guys always losing, because almost every single episode involves the good guys pulling off a win, often by a wide margin. Seeing Mike get kicked in the teeth for an episode is a nice change, and you really can't say that Harvey lost, since his particular battle will be concluded next episode.

#5 PhilDiffy

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:46 AM

Yeah. It's really something where we will have to wait and see, since it's a two-parter. Promos always have the dramatic moments and they never play out as you expect. And usually, Mike and Harvey always win. This is the only time Louis has won, and even then he got yelled out by Harvey for cheating.

The authors probably have a point behind Mike's blithering. Kind of how we wondered if they knew that they were writing Rachel's character as sort of hypocritical and sketchy with her actions, and they ended up having Mike call her out on it anyway.

I'm calling it now - I think in the finale Jenny will believe that she's holding Mike back when Trevor comes back into town, and break up with him to let him pursue his path. At least, in a perfect world.
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#6 972883

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 10:57 PM

Never trust a promo. Promos are always filled with the most dramatic moments strung together, often out of order or context, in order to attract viewer attention.

I really have no idea what the hell you're talking about with the good guys always losing, because almost every single episode involves the good guys pulling off a win, often by a wide margin. Seeing Mike get kicked in the teeth for an episode is a nice change, and you really can't say that Harvey lost, since his particular battle will be concluded next episode.


The complaint I think (which I share) is that since the pilot there have been victories by Harvey or Harvey teamed up with Mike - Harvey being a constant factor. It's now becoming rare to see Mike's exceptional abilities - except for *sometimes* a tiny glimmer and usually only after he's fouled up so spectacularly.

#7 harley69

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

I Thougt the show was excellent,It showed the human side of Harvey,I was getting sick ,and tired of seeing him winning all the time.it showed even Harvey can make mistakes.as far the scene with Jessica coming to Harvey rescue it showed the human side of her,as far as next week episode can't wait to see it myself.

#8 dcoke

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 08:48 PM

Mike displayed no special abilities for that episode. For the entire episode he was reduced to a stupid, naive idiot who did nothing but lose and stammer and screw things up.




I'm actually quite glad that they stopped with the special abilities. I think it was hurting the show that he would go into this voodoo magic thing and memorize whole documents. Sounded more of like a super hero than an associate. I do think it is necessary for Mike to be put down a lot in order for his triumph to be worthwhile/enjoyable.


don't tune in to see Jessica save the day. She is supporting cast; the show is not about her. Yet she was the only one who did anything mentionable.




Really? I love Jessica and I was so happy to have her come into the show. There's a deeper history between her and Harvey and I really want the show to explore that. (How old is Harvey? Who paid for him to go to law school? Was he poor before? What was he before?)


Louis is the default punching bag and I don't like that. I'm glad they made finances his strong point because it gives him a purpose and a meaning behind being a junior partner. Seriously, he was acting like a bigger idiot than most of the associates before the episode about finances. He IS smart, but he also is a weirdo. Expand on both.


I'm glad that Trevor is gone. But I think they need to either do away with Jenny, or bring her back and be a giant support to Mike. Either axe Mike+Rachel and expand on Jenny + Mike, or just get rid of her and continue with the Mike and Rachel sexual tension.


You can easily tell that the writers are not 100% on the direction of the show. And I'll give it to them - the show has changed ten fold since its pilot and there are still some kinks to work out. If it wasn't for the wit, quick humor, and attractive cast, then this show would have lost all viewers and interest by now. I hope they establish a solid base by the end of the season, or else they really need to work this break.

#9 Maka556

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 09:28 PM


I'm actually quite glad that they stopped with the special abilities. I think it was hurting the show that he would go into this voodoo magic thing and memorize whole documents. Sounded more of like a super hero than an associate. I do think it is necessary for Mike to be put down a lot in order for his triumph to be worthwhile/enjoyable.



Mike still has "special abilities" with knowledge retention, but they're hardly ever brought up, they're just there. They're occasionally used to do something unique (like his memorizing that huge stack of legal documents he could later dictate to Rachel, but part of his character development is realizing that knowledge isn't everything in the legal world.

Really? I love Jessica and I was so happy to have her come into the show. There's a deeper history between her and Harvey and I really want the show to explore that. (How old is Harvey? Who paid for him to go to law school? Was he poor before? What was he before?)



For sure, Jessica is a fantastic character. And most shows with smartass main characters usually have them easily outclass their bosses, to the point that you wonder how those bosses ever achieved their positions in the corporate ladder. Not with Jessica: she easily runs circles around both Harvey and Louis.


I believe it's Jessica who puts Harvey through Harvard Law. If I remember correctly, he was a mail room clerk before, but he did something to get himself noticed. His background is clearly more working class than he would be comfortable admitting, however. When Harvey is just Harvey, and not Harvey Specter, Esq. he acts in a way which betrays fairly humble roots.


Louis is the default punching bag and I don't like that. I'm glad they made finances his strong point because it gives him a purpose and a meaning behind being a junior partner. Seriously, he was acting like a bigger idiot than most of the associates before the episode about finances. He IS smart, but he also is a weirdo. Expand on both.



He's great with numbers, but lousy with people, with one hell of an inferiority complex which makes him act out in ways that don't help his situation. Harvey is almost the opposite: he is fantastic when it comes to people, and can manipulate them and play to their desires to achieve almost any outcome, but at the same time he's almost lazy.


I'm glad that Trevor is gone. But I think they need to either do away with Jenny, or bring her back and be a giant support to Mike. Either axe Mike+Rachel and expand on Jenny + Mike, or just get rid of her and continue with the Mike and Rachel sexual tension.



He's coming baaack. Jenny's a goner: since she's been neglected by characterization the entire run of the show and she exists purely as "Mike's love interest", it's clear the writers haven't exactly invested a lot of their creative process into her storylines. We don't even know what she does for a living for chrissake. I doubt she'll be around past the season finale, especially with the way the season finale promos are shaping up. The real question is how will Mike be able to get back into Rachel's good graces. This is somewhat important, considering how big a role Rachel tends to play in most of Mike's independent successes.


#10 Nehth

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 09:23 PM

Yeah. It's really something where we will have to wait and see, since it's a two-parter. Promos always have the dramatic moments and they never play out as you expect. And usually, Mike and Harvey always win. This is the only time Louis has won, and even then he got yelled out by Harvey for cheating.

The authors probably have a point behind Mike's blithering. Kind of how we wondered if they knew that they were writing Rachel's character as sort of hypocritical and sketchy with her actions, and they ended up having Mike call her out on it anyway.

I'm calling it now - I think in the finale Jenny will believe that she's holding Mike back when Trevor comes back into town, and break up with him to let him pursue his path. At least, in a perfect world.


The problem with this line of thinking is the mock trial episode. Mike lost, he threw the trial, took a dive, and that was it. Nothing good came of it - for him or for the viewers. You don't go to work at a law firm to save them from being a law firm.

#11 Nehth

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 09:27 PM

I Thougt the show was excellent,It showed the human side of Harvey,I was getting sick ,and tired of seeing him winning all the time.it showed even Harvey can make mistakes.as far the scene with Jessica coming to Harvey rescue it showed the human side of her,as far as next week episode can't wait to see it myself.


Falling down is fine, and realistic; not getting back up again is not realistic at all. And this show seems to be stuck on proving something by having the good guys lose and then it's all over. Mike lost the trial, and it was all over. He just lost. Nothing more to say. He's supposed to have an edge - his memory. That's pretty much departed the show and that was the main reason we started watching - to see something different. Now all we see is a stupid helpless hopeless bumbling idiot who could be replaced very effectively by the average high school sophomore. He keeps falling down and not getting back up again.

#12 Nehth

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 09:31 PM

Louis makes choices. Everything he does is chicken s***, underhanded, deceitful, weak, cheating, and out to hurt somebody else. Like telling Jenny about Rachel? That was just done to be mean. Louis is evil. It's his nature.



#13 Nehth

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 09:32 PM

The writers have a fixation on Trevor that cannot be overcome. He will never leave the show.

#14 972883

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 10:10 PM

Falling down is fine, and realistic; not getting back up again is not realistic at all. And this show seems to be stuck on proving something by having the good guys lose and then it's all over. Mike lost the trial, and it was all over. He just lost. Nothing more to say. He's supposed to have an edge - his memory. That's pretty much departed the show and that was the main reason we started watching - to see something different. Now all we see is a stupid helpless hopeless bumbling idiot who could be replaced very effectively by the average high school sophomore. He keeps falling down and not getting back up again.


I concur.

#15 mtra11

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 11:26 PM

I concur.

I have read all the comments about Suits. I for one really like the show..
and I guess I just don't delve into they whys and wherefors etc....
I am sooo glad it has been renewed...and it seems that Necessary
Roughness is soon to follow. Two good shows.

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#16 Reiterin

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:23 AM

I do think the show has gone a little downhill since the pilot and first few episodes, but I hope they pick up again in the next season and work things out, because I really truly enjoy this show!

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#17 relgycandy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:11 AM

I really have no idea what the hell you're talking about with the good guys always losing, because almost every single episode involves the good guys pulling off a win, often by a wide margin.



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#18 Theaterd

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:36 PM

I just finished watching the season (?) finale and felt compelled to comment.  As a rule I don't comment on forums; on this I must.
When I first started watching Suits I thought it had the potential to be the best show on TV. After the 1st season I truly thought that they still had a shot, though they were getting bogged down in the "relationships" instead of the law.  After watching this finale I must say I don't understand what happened to the show called Suits.
What I watched was an angry, petty, wannabe Peyton Place. The ridiculous antics now going on between the characters makes me think of General Hospital or Melrose Place, not the smart, witty, law series I started watching.
I am writing this in case any of the writers of the show check the boards.
You lost what was a fan for life... in less than a whole season.
Good Luck with whatever it is you're trying to do, but if you ever start writing Suits again, perhaps I'll be back.




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