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Luke's past, the situation, and public opinion


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#1 kmer2

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:46 PM

I want to be CRYSTAL CLEAR about this.

This is not about Luke's sexuality (if we even know what it is) because that is simply not our business.

If he is gay, straight, or somewhere in between, he is what he is, and the only person I can think of who should have an opinion on it is Luke himself. If he is happy in whatever lifestyle he lives, then god bless him!!

BUT.....his association, and participation in the Gay Wrestling Federation (BG East Fed), where they wrestle their clothes off, continue naked, then progress into their sexual acts with each other is something that every wrestling fan should be concerned about.

Let's get the obvious out of the way first. If any of you (like myself) have kids who are fans, then it is imperative that Vince and his management team forbid him to be apart of the WWE in any way. With Vince's ability to make stars, and a household name out of anyone (and let's face it....he does do a tremendous job of marketing his "entertainers"), it would only be matter of time until Luke is known enough that a ten or eleven year old child, a wrestling fan, decides to google his new favorite wrestler "Luke Robinson".

You should try it yourself. Their are several links that take you to his pictures performing in the BG East. Imagine that. As a parent (in my, I'm a father), you're watching the WWE during the week with your child, and you develop mutual favorites. This happened with me and my dad and brothers growing up. What young WWWF Wrestling fan of the 70's didn't love Chief Jay Strongbow, possibly the most popular wrestler of his generation, and one of the most beloved of all time??

Now imagine that with the access to electronic media, and computers that your child begins to like Luke. It's very easy to see where that could take him, or her, and frankly, it worries me, and I am legitimately anxious about what will happen tonight in the finale.

As far as the WWE is concerned, it is well documented that they are a progressive, and tolerant corporation, and employer, and going back to the late 80's, and early 90's, were trendsetters in that they were openly supportive of their performers, and executives who are/were gay, or bisexual. Remember steve Lombardi..the brooklyn Brawler, and all the rumors surrounding him. There was Terry Garvin, and then the well known stories regarding Pat Patterson. They have proven over the years that they care about the individual's ability to do his, or her job, and their sexuality is their own.

Just for the record, for those who don't know, TNA (Impact) Wrestling late last week rescinded their contract offer to Chyna as she has a porno coming out this month thru Vivid 9guess they make Porno's), so they are clear on how they view this sort of thing. I have no clue how hard core Luke's video's are, but according to their website, you need adult ID verifications, credit cards, etc, so it must be bad.

As for a child getting access, it seems to be easy, as all you need to do is google luke, and you are taken to a host of links, and some of them have very suggestive pictures, so children don't necessarily need credit card's, or adult id's to see Luke doing his thing with other men.

I still remember the Saturday morning broadcast where Gorilla Monsoon told Bobby Heenan (I think it was Heenan) that the wrestler in the ring was a "Graduate of the terry Garvin School of Self-Defense". I thought that was hilarious then, but as I look back on it, it was actually tasteless, and offensive, and I am ashamed that I laughed.

Anyway, the WWE could likely care less that Luke is gay, but as as a responsible company, that depends on it's fanbase, they have an obligation to protect it's younger viewers from the very real possibility that Luke's video's can be accessed by simply googling his name.

And what of the BG East??? Should Luke win, and get any sort of push, would they not profit from his presence in their video's? Would this not make the situation even more tense, and dangerous?? Can you imagine them NOT publicizing his participation, and NOT marketing his video's?? Wouldn't you if you were in their shoe's?? This will just continue to get worse with every success Luke has in the WWE, should he win.

Back around May 2000, the NY Post foolishly, and irresponsibly ran a headline, with full back page coverage on the Mike Piazza Gay Rumors. Bad enough these rumors were proven false, but I had a third grader in elementary school then. The following day (after the story/stories) ran, the kids were actually dismissed from school early as there was just so much talk among the kids about Piazza being gay that the teachers, and the school were worried enough that stopping school, and sending the kids home was their only option. There was an emergency meeting called for that night in the school cafeteria where the school provided counseling for every parent there. We were all dealing with our kids running around talking about Mike Piazza being gay. He was so well known, and the best damned baseball player in NY at the time, so every child knew who he was, and this was a big deal. Truthfully, without the school provided counseling, I believe I would have been able to deal with my son's questions, but with their help, it was much easier. The point is that we were forced to endure this at all, and had to broach the "Facts of Life" thing with a child who was nine years old. I would have preferred to do it a few years later. That choice was ripped from us due to a very irresponsible reporter, and frankly, this sort of thing could very well happen with any child who watches the WWE, admires Luke, and spends time with a friend or two who also like wrestling, and decide to open their computers (and EVERY CHILD) in the Public School Systems today knows how to use a computer, and most every household has one!!

Anyway, we all learned how to speak to our children about what they experiencing, and while it was uncomfortable, it was necessary, due to a very irresponsible reporter.

This is the type of thing that can/could happen. Luke may never be as popular as Mike Piazza is/was, but among wrestling fans, he is certain to garner some support from some young kids, and we just can't allow for children of any age being exposed to pornography.

Anyway, I have typed a lot here.

I truly hope that Luke finds happiness, and becomes successful, but he has already participated in a company that corrupts the wrestling profession, and he just doesn't belong on WWE broadcast television.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this situiation, and does anyone have any sort of prediction as to how the WWE will, or would manage this?

I am interested to know if anyone else has children who are fans, and if anyone else has similar concerns.

kmer2

#2 flawless27dashing

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:39 PM

while you are correct divas like maryse your child looks her up and well she use to do playboy and all and i have seen her fully nude and not just her but other divas have posed her nude to but like candice she was publicly bisexual on tv and wwe always love seeing girls kiss its like when two girly girls are gay its tottaly hot and no prob but guys oh no everyone hates it like he had to do what he had to do and you should teach your kids anbout that like i have known this my whole life and i am 12 but chyna she just loves doing the whole po.. thing like she is ubsessed with it like drugs

#3 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:40 PM

Sounds like a sensible argument to me. It would certainly be very unfortunate that the responsible course of action seems to involve denying somebody a dream they have genuinely earned... however that one person's dream, dashed by his own previous choices in life, I'd say is less important than the child fans the WWE does (for right or wrong) aim their product at, and would probably get a fair proportion of even if they didn't (as I gather happens lots with other wrestling promotions that don't specifically aim for the younger audience).

It seems to me like, if say you robbed a bank or something, and once you'd paid your dues to society, you were free but you could not become a police chief. I've no idea if that's how it works or not but it's a realistic-sounding fictional example to me. That would suck that you were barred from doing a lot of good in this world just because you did a lot of bad before. But on the other hand, you'd have to understand why they would not want somebody with that past in that position.

Setting examples and sending messages, in real life, is very powerful and often foolishly dismissed. Even unintentional examples. Even messages from the past you can't erase due to their publication. They are still powerful.

Another thought... don't suppose that Luke's hiring or not depends on the outcome of this firing, entirely. If he wins, he is garunteed a contract, but if he doesn't, he is not garunteed to NOT have one. If have WWE perhaps not considered this argument, perhaps come to a different conclusion on it, or perhaps preferred to ignore the issue... then Luke will probably get a contract, win or lose. Because technically and in terms of confidence, he is very accomplished. And he has fought hard for it, too.

Another thing that could occur... probably unlikely but you never know with the WWE... is some bright spark in creative might consider it a good idea, should Luke win (or should he get a contract regardless), to make a storyline out of this situation. Because oh how creative members in televised wrestling companies these days are enamoured with "realism" in stories, right? (in my humble opinion, pointlessly so) It wouldn't be right, but then neither was a story about necrophilia, neither was a story about pretended rape, neither was a story about incest fantasy and neither was a "ho" (from the "ho train") flashing her tits with minors in the audience. But all those happened...

WWE appear to be gradually becoming more morally conscious and thoughtful over issues than they've been in the past. I'm hoping that isn't an illusion.

#4 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:48 PM

Flawless I didn't know you were so young, and it's heartening for an 'oldie' like me to know that somebody so early in life can still spot when a company is being prejudiced like that. They have had a dispicable record of portraying homosexual men as "weird and to be avoided" and homosexual women as "soulless lust objects". In terms of character gimmicks and also in terms of all those unfortunate and annoying associations with filth magazines like Playboy.

They have not done a gimmick like that in a long time, though... not since their WWECW brand I think... nor have they openly prided about any Playboy associations in quite a while... and so hopefully that kind of thing is a thing of the past. It seems that way. It makes me smile that it seems that way.

#5 kmer2

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

while you are correct divas like maryse your child looks her up and well she use to do playboy and all and i have seen her fully nude and not just her but other divas have posed her nude to but like candice she was publicly bisexual on tv and wwe always love seeing girls kiss its like when two girly girls are gay its tottaly hot and no prob but guys oh no everyone hates it like he had to do what he had to do and you should teach your kids anbout that like i have known this my whole life and i am 12 but chyna she just loves doing the whole po.. thing like she is ubsessed with it like drugs



You're 12??

And you are telling me what to teach to my kids??

PErhaps in about twenty years I would appreciate some advice, based upon experience.

Thanks for responding. The topless Diva thing in the playboy mags are as far as WWE has allowed it to go. They have fired girls for crossing over into the skin rags Tammy Sytch?? Remember her?? Oh, you're just 12, but she was canned for that, and other things as well, but it was her foray into heavier nudity that got her into hot water with management..this is all on the Greatest Managers DVD by the way)

And your point about chyna loving porno is well taken, and you made my point for me regarding her. She chose porno, and was blackballed by pro wrestling.



You mention the Diva's in Playboy, etc., but the topic is about Luke performing in porno's and that he did son under the guise of wrestling, which completely corrupted the sport he is trying to break into.Plus...tremendous difference from getting a look at someone's body, and getting a look at two people engaged in fellatio, intercourse, etc. There is such a disparity here that i won't spend any more time trying talking about it.

Edited by kmer2, 06 June 2011 - 06:38 PM.


#6 kmer2

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:19 PM

Flawless I didn't know you were so young, and it's heartening for an 'oldie' like me to know that somebody so early in life can still spot when a company is being prejudiced like that. They have had a dispicable record of portraying homosexual men as "weird and to be avoided" and homosexual women as "soulless lust objects". In terms of character gimmicks and also in terms of all those unfortunate and annoying associations with filth magazines like Playboy.

They have not done a gimmick like that in a long time, though... not since their WWECW brand I think... nor have they openly prided about any Playboy associations in quite a while... and so hopefully that kind of thing is a thing of the past. It seems that way. It makes me smile that it seems that way.



Great point here!

They do seem to be focusing on the "in-ring product", and the performer's athleticism, as it should be.

I get the whole Playboy thing, as they try to promote scantily clad Diva's, but that is a total stretch to match what they have done in the past to what Luke has done.

#7 kmer2

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:58 PM

Sounds like a sensible argument to me. It would certainly be very unfortunate that the responsible course of action seems to involve denying somebody a dream they have genuinely earned... however that one person's dream, dashed by his own previous choices in life, I'd say is less important than the child fans the WWE does (for right or wrong) aim their product at, and would probably get a fair proportion of even if they didn't (as I gather happens lots with other wrestling promotions that don't specifically aim for the younger audience).

It seems to me like, if say you robbed a bank or something, and once you'd paid your dues to society, you were free but you could not become a police chief. I've no idea if that's how it works or not but it's a realistic-sounding fictional example to me. That would suck that you were barred from doing a lot of good in this world just because you did a lot of bad before. But on the other hand, you'd have to understand why they would not want somebody with that past in that position.

Setting examples and sending messages, in real life, is very powerful and often foolishly dismissed. Even unintentional examples. Even messages from the past you can't erase due to their publication. They are still powerful.

Another thought... don't suppose that Luke's hiring or not depends on the outcome of this firing, entirely. If he wins, he is garunteed a contract, but if he doesn't, he is not garunteed to NOT have one. If have WWE perhaps not considered this argument, perhaps come to a different conclusion on it, or perhaps preferred to ignore the issue... then Luke will probably get a contract, win or lose. Because technically and in terms of confidence, he is very accomplished. And he has fought hard for it, too.

Another thing that could occur... probably unlikely but you never know with the WWE... is some bright spark in creative might consider it a good idea, should Luke win (or should he get a contract regardless), to make a storyline out of this situation. Because oh how creative members in televised wrestling companies these days are enamoured with "realism" in stories, right? (in my humble opinion, pointlessly so) It wouldn't be right, but then neither was a story about necrophilia, neither was a story about pretended rape, neither was a story about incest fantasy and neither was a "ho" (from the "ho train") flashing her tits with minors in the audience. But all those happened...

WWE appear to be gradually becoming more morally conscious and thoughtful over issues than they've been in the past. I'm hoping that isn't an illusion.


I am torn somewhat here Jane.

I applaud second chances, and redemption, and everything that goes along with it.

should someone rob a bank, or take a life, or be involved in a crime where someone loses their life, i would say that person has pretty much forfeited any right to represent Law Enforcement, but then, one see's Dog Chapman, and all the good he has done, and I, for one, feel differently.

But there just seems to be something so outright offensive about corrupting their career of choice (Pro Wrestling) by wrestling in a Pornographic variant of that business, then trying to re-enter the business of their dream(s).

I would teach my son that you have to be accountable for your actions, and maybe Luke should be smart enough to know that after what he has done that trying to go "legit" in the WWE will only bring about resentment, and hatred.

I don't know. I think it's a shame, because as you said, he is very talented, but sometimes that just isn't enough.

There have been many talented performers over the years who have been fired for transgressions much less serious than this.

Remember the Iron Shiek/Hacksaw Duggan fued of the late 80's??

When they were caught by that State Trooper with Marijuana (in the same car, while they are supposed to be life-long enemies), they were both fired on the spot!!! Not for the pot, but because they broke KayFabe, and violated the trust that the average fan would have in them, so I just don't see where Luke can, or even should, be allowed to pull this off.

There are many more examples, but the trust that the company (WWE) would have to have in Luke to be able to carry out his story lines would be severely damaged by his past, unless, like you suggested, they wrote this into his character, but that just seems too offensive, based on his very, very real background.

You want to know what is bothering me?? I can't figure this out.

If the WWE does indeed know, then why have they allowed him to participate in this contest this long??

IS it perhaps because they don't know?? Because I can't imagine them allowing him to go this far, at other's expense (Jeremiah), if they do indeed know).

Anyway....time for the show. It's 7:58 pm here. Starts in two minutes!!

Speak later!!

#8 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:59 PM

I guess it is a stretch, nevertheless it is a stretch in precisely the same direction and for exactly the same "user end result", as it were. Which is why I tend to couple both types of things together, moralistically. However yes here there is that extra dimension of the one being presented as wrestling and the other not...

#9 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 07:03 PM

Perhaps indeed WWE doesn't know. Or maybe does know now, when it's too late to really do anything about it, well for the Tough Enough show anyway.

#10 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 07:07 PM

Also very true what you say about the thousands (... and thousands!) of very talented wrestlers out there who genuinely haven't been given the chance. Because simply not everybody can. But then that makes it seem only fair that one of those should step into what, without this porn wrestling thing, would otherwise have been Luke's spot.

#11 kmer2

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 07:27 PM

Also very true what you say about the thousands (... and thousands!) of very talented wrestlers out there who genuinely haven't been given the chance. Because simply not everybody can. But then that makes it seem only fair that one of those should step into what, without this porn wrestling thing, would otherwise have been Luke's spot.


I like Andy, but I agree that if it were not for this whole episode, that Luke may very well be the best choice, but it's just so hard to like him.

Even tonight, in the first fifteen minutes, he has told the world that he is a superstar, and the best there is repeatedly.

Just shut up and prove it!!

#12 Mordechai

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 09:03 PM

At the risk of sounding like a bonehead, I really don't give a crap whether my kids find out about Luke's association with a pornographic wrestling league. If they were to decide Luke was their favorite wrestler, I imagine it would be because of his performance and not because of a presumed non-association in any gay wrestling leagues.

Yes, there is gay porn out there. Yes, Luke wrestled for a company that does wrestling porn, although he didn't wrestle nude. And yes, my personal guess would be that Luke is gay, although I could be wrong. I don't see what that has to do with what he does in wrestling.

And don't worry, if the s#it hit the fan and a bunch of people with nothing else to do made a huge fuss out of this, Vince McMahon could figure out a way to work it to his advantage.

I just don't think it's a big deal. Hell, I read James Dean used to turn tricks before hitting it big in Hollywood. So what?

#13 JaneAlanaRoss

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:01 AM

From everything people were saying I got the impression that he did participate in the porn... now you're saying he didn't? Can somebody straighten that out please... did he or didn't he? That's what this whole argument is based on...
Heck if James Dean was a whore then fuck James Dean. This isn't acting, this is wrestling.

#14 Mordechai

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:59 AM

From everything people were saying I got the impression that he did participate in the porn... now you're saying he didn't? Can somebody straighten that out please... did he or didn't he? That's what this whole argument is based on...
Heck if James Dean was a whore then fuck James Dean. This isn't acting, this is wrestling.


Well, I took that from his Wikipedia page. Granted, Wikipedia is not an authoritative source.

#15 anne04915

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:35 AM

I just googled Luke and watched a match between him and Robbie Ellis on IHW on youtube...It is not sexual acts at all, so I don't know where you got your info... But he shouldn't have his name run through the mud, it is not porno! Check it out...

#16 kmer2

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:26 PM

I just googled Luke and watched a match between him and Robbie Ellis on IHW on youtube...It is not sexual acts at all, so I don't know where you got your info... But he shouldn't have his name run through the mud, it is not porno! Check it out...



THe IHW has as much to do with his Gay Wrestling in the BG East Fed as the IHW has to do with the WWE.

Once again....google his Donnie Drake persona, and enjoy the all the "action" for yourself.

By the way...none of us broke this news. It came from Prowrestling.net, and it's ALL OVER THE NET!! There are numerous threads about this on the Yahoo boards, the msn boards, it's on Bleacherreport.net, it was in the NY Daily News, and likely many more reputable places as well.

Surely you know that wrestlers use false names, like Stone Cold Steve Austin who wrestled as Stunning Steve Williams in the WCW, and ECW, HHH whose real name is Paul Levesque, Bill DeMott who wrestled in the WCW as Hugh Morrus AND Hugh G. Rection, and the list goes on, and on, and on!!!

When you do something of a sexual nature on video, where the producer charges a premium to gain access to it, and you become well known at all, it will come out.

This is squarely Luke's fault, and the fault lies only with him.

Edited by kmer2, 07 June 2011 - 04:29 PM.


#17 kmer2

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:13 PM

Well, I took that from his Wikipedia page. Granted, Wikipedia is not an authoritative source.


I have not paid for access to see "Hunkbash" , or the others, but the written accounts are that they begin by wrestling in skimpy briefs, proceed to pull each others clothes off, and then the they engage in fellation, and intercourse in the ring, on the mat, etc.

BG East requires Adulkt ID VErification, and charges a premium.

The only way to view just how much Luke did on tape is by ordering the video's.

There is a post her on the boards from another viewer who did so, and explained it, and said how bad it broke down.

It is not on Luke's Wiki page, but I'll leave it the way it is, because if it weren't true, then it wouldn't cost $#(.00 for an ID VErification, and another $39.00 to view the "match.

Their homepage describes it as Homo Erotica.

Pretty clear cut.

And on their home page there are clear, CRYSTAL clear pictures of Luke involved in fondling, and allowing himself to be fondled.

I just can't justify taking it any fartehr, because I would have a difficult time explaining it all to my wife.

I'll leave it at that.

That this has been reported by Prowrestling.net, Yahoo, Msn, NY Daily News, Prowrestling fans.com, prowrestlingcrap.com, etc., etc., I accept it on faith, and reporting.

#18 flawless27dashing

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:31 PM

ok kmer2 i may be 12 but you can't judge someone one or by sexuality or anything like i siad he had to do what he had to do and you can't say i am telling you how to teach your children because i have a legitable piont and i know all about sunny (just cause im young doesn't mean im dumb ) i am a wrestling fan so it realy does not matter how old i am i still saw every match before i was born and from when wwe first started
oh and when i become a diva i promise that if your child or child's child says i am his favorite(which might happen) i won't be like that (r rated) PROMISE!!!!!!!!:) :( :mellow: :angry:

#19 kmer2

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:51 PM

ok kmer2 i may be 12 but you can't judge someone one or by sexuality or anything like i siad he had to do what he had to do and you can't say i am telling you how to teach your children because i have a legitable piont and i know all about sunny (just cause im young doesn't mean im dumb ) i am a wrestling fan so it realy does not matter how old i am i still saw every match before i was born and from when wwe first started
oh and when i become a diva i promise that if your child or child's child says i am his favorite(which might happen) i won't be like that (r rated) PROMISE!!!!!!!!:) :( :mellow: :angry:



You must be 12.

You haven't read a damned word in any of the threads anywhere, or you would know I haven't disparaged (that means criticized) Luke in any way for his sexuality. Read the opening post in this thread, and then proceed to the very opening lines.

And Sunny....she was FIRED from the WWE before you were ever conceived. Unless you have the DVD I mentioned, you wouldn't know about her scandal(s), and she has appeared two to three times over the years since, but unless you have the DVD I discussed, her scandals were well below the radar.

Maybe you do know her, but as I said originally, you are 12, so by mentioning her, I mentioned someone who you ordinarily wouldn't know anything about.

But you know who she is you say. By the way, who were the tag-teams she managed? The first, and last?

I'm not trying to embarrass you, just making a point.

You are posting irresponsibly here, and we are trying to have conversations about what is going on.

You have demonstrated here, in several different threads that you can't, or don't understand the subject matter, and that you either don't read the very threads you are writing in, or don't comprehend what is being said. Ina any case, you have every right to be here, but don't expect any sort of friendliness when you log in and run people down, make extremely derogative statements, and post such ignorant responses that one has no choice but to be upset with you.

Enough.

If you simply are here to pick fights, then go to a children's site, and fight with others your own age.

If you want to engage other adults and discuss their opinions, and their statements, then you should read about their opinions, and statements.

You have no business telling me what to teach my children. You are 12. You are a child.

Edited by kmer2, 07 June 2011 - 07:20 PM.


#20 Mordechai

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:55 PM

I just can't justify taking it any fartehr, because I would have a difficult time explaining it all to my wife.

:lol:
I visited the link you posted in the other thread. Yes, Luke clearly participates in homoerotica. But I stand by my original statement... I don't really care, and if my kids found out it wouldn't be the end of the world. It's not as if they say, "CM Punk is so awesome... I bet he doesn't participate in homoerotica!"

Gay porn/erotica is a fact of life. Supply and demand. I'm not really sure why Luke would have done that unless he was really strapped for cash, but I'm not going to hold it against him.




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