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SVU . "The Times they are Achanging"


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#1 jmortonci

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 08:20 PM

We all know the draw: In 2010 (almost a year ago) NBC canceled the original LAW & ORDER series after supposedly about to renew it for a record-breaking 21st season. LAW & ORDER: LOS ANGELES was being rushed onto the air, which caused it to be re-vamped earlier this year. LAW & ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT had under gone a casting shake-up of its own; D'Onofrio, Erbe, and Bogosian departing; bad writing and acting (of Saffron Burrows IMO) caused the series to decline in the ratings pushing USA Network to cancel it - that decision reversed due to Vincent D'Onofrio/Kathryn Erbe making a triumphant return for the show's supposed final season (Which IMO is the best the show has been since the 7th season). CI might be renewed an 11th season if the ratings maintain at a normal level.

In the meantime LAW & ORDER: LA and its fate is on the "chopping block" because of NBC's stupidity of moving the show to a night where no one tunes in (Monday 10/9c) and after two suck-ish lead-ins. If NBC cancels LOLA, it'll be the sixth [stupid] mistake they've made with the U.S. series’ (1. Cancelling LAW & ORDER: TRIAL BY JURY after its first season, 2. Cancelling LOCI, it moving to here on USA Network, where it might be ending, 4. Moving LAW & ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT to Wednesdays 10/9c from Tuesdays 10/9c in 2009, 4. Cancelling the original mother ship series, after promising a 21st record-breaking season, 5. Rushing LOLA on the air speeding up the casting, writing, and production processes, 6. Cancelling L&O: LA after moving (isolating) it to a night where no one can/wants to tune in to it (after it being positively re-vamped).

Basically this post is to hip LOCI fans into knowing that it's possible if NBC cancels this series and Dick Wolf doesn't try to make a deal to keep it, the L&O U.S. brand is basically dead. IF LOLA dies either SVU or LOCI (if renewed) will follow soon after leaving only 1 series running. The spin-offs need to be lead by either L&O or L&O: LA to keep them going.

It's approx. 37% that anyone [off of NBC] will renew the original mother ship since it has so many miles on it. LOLA on the other hand in a first season could be picked up anywhere: AMC, TNT, or very well on USA (but let's hope not). Let's ALL "Law & Order" fans: CI, SVU, LA, TBJ... etc try and keep Law & Order: LA on NBC:

By "liking" this Facebook page: http://www.facebook....129589483784593 and Tweeting the link over Twitter with the hash-tag #SaveLOLA. It might not be too late to keep the current shows in the "Law & Order" U.S. franchise alive!

Please/Thank you for your support L&O: CI fans!


SAVE LAW & ORDER: LA on NBC!

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#2 montekat

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 02:17 PM

I really don't care what happens to LOLA. I gave up watching it 10 minutes into the first episode and never went back.

I stopped watching SVU a couple of years ago because it had become so stale.

I would have continued watching the mothership, but I really didn't like the detectives very much.

If this really is the last seasonn of LOCI, I think I'm pretty much done with the whole thing. Maybe an old rerun once in a while, but that's about it.

#3 jmortonci

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 10:55 PM

The ONLY direct problem with the Law & Order U.S. franchise is the writing/casting/time slots.

Well NOW: LOCI is back to the way it was in the first season. D'Onofrio and Erbe are back and the episodes are watchable again. Throughout the 8th and 9th seasons you could tell the writers were barely trying. The only problem is getting the audience to stay tuned in every Sunday. I mean last Sunday I almost forgot LOCI came back.

SVU: Neal Baer and his crack (literally "Speed Weed"?) team of writers are departing (thank goodness). But a catch is Mariska Hargitay is departing mid-13th season (if officially renewed by NBC) for Jennifer Love Hewitt to take over as a detective. Chris Meloni and Ice-T (on Twitter) have not renewed contracts. But I feel that Warren Leight could make SVU interesting again, despite the cast being there or not. The 3rd (2), 5th (3), and 7th (1) seasons of LOCI to me are the top 3! If NBC would move SVU back to Tuesday 10/9c, (with Leight running the show) a quarter of the audience would return.

LOLA: NBC messed up by keeping it off the air so long (December 2, 2010 - April 11, 2011) and moving it to Monday night where the network is weakest -- even with Harry's Law the night wasn't it's strongest, but in HL's series premiere. If LOLA would have come back sooner and stayed on Wednesday 10/9c, it'd probably be renewed right now. (A mistake NBC made 1 year ago with the mother ship). Though rumors are now flying; I remember reading on Facebook that Dick Wolf might be getting 'in talks' with TNT about reviving BOTH the Mothership and LOLA on their network -- it could work, but that goes back into whether the writers can keep the stories up and the cast return. Garza would likely stay with LOLA, Sisto and Roache are in other projects and Merkerson already announced her departure from the series pre-cancellation. So Anthony and Sam would be the only ones to return. I think it could work w/o the final season cast; it worked for 20 years down the line.

I have a feeling if LOLA doesn't find a way back, what's left of "the brand" will go with it. We know LOCI is supposedly ending in June, unless ratings stay up; but I don't trust USA Network, they want to bring in $$$$ and LOCI is the oldest running show on the network including NBC's years.

I myself would rather NBC take LOCI back and TNT pick back up LOLA and L&O. It could work if Wolf and the networks go about it correctly and don't rush it (like NBC wanted to rush LOLA on-air and see what happened, they had to rush it off; like they did the mother ship). NBC = Nothing But Crooks


SAVE LAW & ORDER: LA on NBC!

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#4 cat lady

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 10:32 AM

The ONLY direct problem with the Law & Order U.S. franchise is the writing/casting/time slots.

Well NOW: LOCI is back to the way it was in the first season. D'Onofrio and Erbe are back and the episodes are watchable again. Throughout the 8th and 9th seasons you could tell the writers were barely trying. The only problem is getting the audience to stay tuned in every Sunday. I mean last Sunday I almost forgot LOCI came back.

SVU: Neal Baer and his crack (literally "Speed Weed"?) team of writers are departing (thank goodness). But a catch is Mariska Hargitay is departing mid-13th season (if officially renewed by NBC) for Jennifer Love Hewitt to take over as a detective. Chris Meloni and Ice-T (on Twitter) have not renewed contracts. But I feel that Warren Leight could make SVU interesting again, despite the cast being there or not. The 3rd (2), 5th (3), and 7th (1) seasons of LOCI to me are the top 3! If NBC would move SVU back to Tuesday 10/9c, (with Leight running the show) a quarter of the audience would return.

LOLA: NBC messed up by keeping it off the air so long (December 2, 2010 - April 11, 2011) and moving it to Monday night where the network is weakest -- even with Harry's Law the night wasn't it's strongest, but in HL's series premiere. If LOLA would have come back sooner and stayed on Wednesday 10/9c, it'd probably be renewed right now. (A mistake NBC made 1 year ago with the mother ship). Though rumors are now flying; I remember reading on Facebook that Dick Wolf might be getting 'in talks' with TNT about reviving BOTH the Mothership and LOLA on their network -- it could work, but that goes back into whether the writers can keep the stories up and the cast return. Garza would likely stay with LOLA, Sisto and Roache are in other projects and Merkerson already announced her departure from the series pre-cancellation. So Anthony and Sam would be the only ones to return. I think it could work w/o the final season cast; it worked for 20 years down the line.

I have a feeling if LOLA doesn't find a way back, what's left of "the brand" will go with it. We know LOCI is supposedly ending in June, unless ratings stay up; but I don't trust USA Network, they want to bring in $$$$ and LOCI is the oldest running show on the network including NBC's years.

I myself would rather NBC take LOCI back and TNT pick back up LOLA and L&O. It could work if Wolf and the networks go about it correctly and don't rush it (like NBC wanted to rush LOLA on-air and see what happened, they had to rush it off; like they did the mother ship). NBC = Nothing But Crooks



Jennifer Love Hewitt ??? I can't see her as a Detective, is she the best they could find to replace Marishka! If they replace Melloni and Ice-T that will really change the dynamics of the show, how the fans will take it is what will make or break the show, look at C.I. they wiped out the cast and replaced them and look at the results. If the regulars of a series are ready to depart, then give them a decent farewell season and let the show end with dignity, that was what we asked for with C.I. and here we have our last eight shows to say goodbye and apparently the scripts are more than doing them justice, as the show seems to be back to original calibre. With such a strong team such as Hargitay/ Melloni it will be an uphill struggle to erase them from the viewers minds, can't see it happening myself, but who knows stranger things have happened in T.V. land!

#5 cat lady

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 10:50 AM

I can picture J.L.H. reacting to a crime scene now, with a piercing sceam just like on Ghost Whisperer, boy that woman sure was scared of dead bodies, even Ghosts. :blink:

#6 krodgers

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 03:48 PM

I have merged these topics together considering they are for SVU and LA&O thanks.:)


Posted Image Krod, LOCI Moderator


#7 jmortonci

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:46 PM

Now this is one way to get angry fans together in one mindset, I wish I had thought of it:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/renew-law-order-and-law-order-la-on-tnt/signatures.html

I guess sometime this afternoon someone thought it best to create an online petition where EVERYONE can get in their 2 cents on this year's cancellation of Law & Order: LA, and last year's cancellation of the first Law & Order. At the moment it's up to 21 signatures (the season number L&O should currently be in).

We KNOW if L&O or L&O: LA were to come to USA Network they'd be retooled in a way where all the shows would have to have the Det. Robert Goren character (quirky yet lovable cop) or Inspector Mary Shannon character (tough as nails female cop or prosecutor). They'd have to be a light version of this dark series - I'm not calling LOCI light, but it's has a different atmosphere than the rest of the L&O series, and it's a good thing for actor Vincent D'Onofrio and even Chris Noth, we know the Mike Logan character has/have/had so many problems in his life, like Goren - I see the mother ship and LOLA as telling/showing it how it is, TNT being the perfect home for such series; I felt L&O: LA "Reseda" was a bit gore for USA Network to show... they blew a cops leg off and 'showed it' (I was shocked that they would go to the lengths to make it real)

Back to the point: Fans (both of L&O/LOLA and even LOCI/SVU/UK/TBJ) will go to the ends of the Earth for the shows in this franchise. Dick Wolf and Rene Balcer on numerous occasions say they do the shows for the loyal fans. (Which is why we won't likely see G/E on LOCI or E/O on SVU anytime soon).

So I don't know about any other LOCI fans but this one wants his Sam Waterston and Alfred Molina back! I mean it is worth a shot, it can't hurt. If it works, maybe someone will do one for LOCI to be renewed an 11th season (I wish someone would, I might).

As for SVU and JLH: If Hewitt is to join SVU, I trust Warren Leight enough to keep the writing up so her acting would be as if she's a veteran star in the L&O brand. I think if SVU moved back to Tuesdays 10/9c... it'll pull better numbers than what it has. It's a good show, except when writers like "Speed Weed" write episodes as if that was running through their systems (SVU: "Wet" was dry)!


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#8 jmortonci

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 06:17 PM

I think the age of the crime procedural juggernauts is over.

- I say nay. Exhibit A: NCIS and spinoff NCIS: LA... they both pull excellent numbers on CBS; although I don't always tune into NCIS: LA, I still watch it! The NCIS franchise is good because of show runner Shane Brennan (and NCIS franchises young writers), CBS wants an NCIS: New York to hit the small screen (but "in time").

What happened to the "Law & Order"/"CSI" franchise is that different show runners/writers came in and ran things their way and the show's fell in the ratings. Neal Baer took SVU down these last 5 seasons; and I hope Warren Leight can give SVU that 'excitement' to push it back up in the ratings a little. SVU's season finale shows that Neal Baer didn't really care, he just wanted out - he didn't even write it himself, he had Jon Greene and Dan Truly do it for him (and I hope they are both gone, the only writer who needs to stay on SVU is Dawn DeNoon). And as for the CSI franchise; when it stopped being solely about the criminals and the forensics it began to decline in writing and in the ratings (I used to love CSI: Miami, now I don't care really... I was shocked CBS renewed CSI: NY).

...

leight is the man to do that.He now holds in his arms the lone surviving Law and Order baby

- As long as I am living and have access to a computer and a telephone, I'm not going to stop trying to keep more than 1 L&O until somebody tells me in full bloom there is NO CHANCE TNT (or anyone else) will take both "Law & Order" and "Law & Order: LA" (which if you ask me the mothership [and now LOLA] should have went to cable in 2007 on TNT).

Ted Linhart (Twitter, @TedOnTV) has been telling fans USA won't be taking L&O or L&O: LA; which is understandable because L&O: CI is on already (and is supposedly ending), and the L&O brand doesn't exactly fit w/ their line of shows (only because of VD'O, Chris Noth, Jeff Goldblum - quirky or crazy cops w/ independent female partners).

Its a time of opening up to them,change the look,change the feel, and I wish them all luck.

- I agree and disagree; SVU needs a change... but not a drastic change. Leight should just look at seasons 1-7 of SVU and then use his own imagination... the only reason SVU sucks on an on/off weekly basis IMO is because the writers have a pretext to make Chris/Mariska/big name guest stars run SVU, instead of the stories themselves. That's why after S. March left they never truly seeked someone to keep the ADA character filled, they don't want to pay the extra $$$.

I'm hoping Warren Leight will change all that.


SAVE LAW & ORDER: LA on NBC!

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#9 TexasBlonde_1

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:01 PM

LOSVU may have signed its own death certificate when they failed to resign Chris Meloni. That is a staggering loss they may not be able to recover from.

#10 jmortonci

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 11:45 PM

I have mixed feelings about the abrupt departure of Chris Meloni... I see it as a good and a bad for SVU.

Good because SVU is in desperate need of a retooling itself (as Bob Greenblatt has basically said, who I now have mixed feelings for as well), bad because majority of SVU's fan base is fans of Meloni and Hargitay respectfully, esp. the E/O shippers, who are now 'shipping out' of SVU.

The same thing happened to LOCI in the 9th season, but I mostly blame USA Network and show runner Walon Green for the downfall that season (Which has resulted in USA Network wanting to end the show, I hope the ratings [which have picked up] changes USA's execs. minds). Season 8 of CI was fair for the Goldblum/Nicholson episodes; if Walon Green had kept the writing up, I think the episodes would have been more enjoyable and not over half the LOCI fan base would have departed the show.

I never watched them live after episode 9x05 (Gods & Insects, ?), I thought the episodes got 'stupid' really; and Jeff Goldblum was just creeping through lines, he didn't have the 'energy' or 'spark' he had in the 8th season episodes. Saffron Burrows, don't even get me started. I LOVED Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio's Zoe Callas, I wish she would have stayed on, I would have loved to seen her and Eames (Erbe) interacting! But I'm growing to like Jay Sanders too (his character's got a Deakins feel to him)!

I really just want USA to renew Law & Order: CI an 11th 16 episode season and for Chris Brancato to stay on as show runner - and get LOCI back to its sense of normalcy - I know VD'O's not gonna want to do all 16 episodes, I wish Chris Noth would return and do the other 8 (or 9 since he's got to make a return), since his roll on The Good Wife is a recurring and not a full role.

I compare this season of LOCI to the first 5 at least (esp. the first 2 seasons), Chris Brancato should have been show runner when Leight left if you ask me (although he bombed his last SVU episode, Spectacle, by trying to make it two cases in one) !

But as I go around, praying and hoping for some Law & Order: LA news; I see a lot of pissed off Alfred Molina, Corey Stoll, and Alana de la Garza fans... I hoped LOLA would have gotten renewed on NBC so we could have a LOLA/LOCI cross over (Goren/Eames in the LA sun! I could see Goren amazed about LA, while Eames would be ready to come back to NYC). I think I would have liked Terrence Howard more if he didn't have the urge to cry; the episodes "Silver Lake", "East Pasadena", and "Benedict Canyon" were his best. "Sylmar", "Runyon Canyon", and "Hayden Tract" were his worst yet. Didn't like Skeet Ulrich in LOLA AT ALL, and I like Skeet.

But I said all that to say this: Law & Order spinoffs like SVU and LOCI - since they are directly aimed at the main characters - need constant excellent writing that you'd find from L&O people like: Rene Balcer, Warren Leight, Chris Brancato, Dawn DeNoon (until episode 12x23 of SVU), Jonathan Greene (from time to time), Michael S. Chernuchin, Richard Sweren, and 1 or 2 others; to keep the stories as real/believable as possible and not so melodramatic. If an abrupt cast change is to occur, the writing will overshadow the cast change, because you'd like the next character in line.

It's always about the writing (and the characters) in the Law & Order brand, it always has been; the actors act and take what's given to them... if they're given crap... they're gonna act like crap (Jeff Goldblum and Saffron Burrows in the ninth season, Chris Melon and Mariska Hargitay off/on from seasons eight until twelve IMO).



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#11 TexasBlonde_1

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 04:38 PM

jmortonci, can you explain something to me?

What is the appeal of watching a show that makes sex crime its subject matter for entertainment every week? I just cant get my head around it.Having lived and worked with people who experienced abuse ,I dont understand how that can be enjoyed as entertainment every week without bringing in a sense of voyeurism.Where is the balance?

Its this thing that happens in newspapers where they place reports about sex crimes next to sex stories about celebrities.Its incongruous.But I want to understand it...


Flatpack, I think one reason why people watch it is to see the creep hopefully brought to justice. Another interesting aspect is the psychology of how the victim and victim's families react. They also bring out things many do not realize are actually happening in the US such as the high rate of incest and the slave trade, young girls being brought to the US for prostitution instead of honest work they were promised, is happening here. I was not really aware the sex slave market was here in the US. It is despicable and I hope they catch everyone of the criminals who are involved with this crime ring.

#12 jmortonci

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:44 AM

jmortonci, can you explain something to me?

What is the appeal of watching a show that makes sex crime its subject matter for entertainment every week? I just cant get my head around it.Having lived and worked with people who experienced abuse ,I dont understand how that can be enjoyed as entertainment every week without bringing in a sense of voyeurism.Where is the balance?

Its this thing that happens in newspapers where they place reports about sex crimes next to sex stories about celebrities.Its incongruous.But I want to understand it...


For one for that exact reason, something SVU used to do: take sex crimes from the headlines... not make political agendas about corrupt talk-show hosts and obesity in children caused by soda, not sex crimes; just wrong. SVU in recent seasons (do to SVU's casters/Neal Baer playing Duck, Duck, Goose with the ADA character) has stopped so much as going to trial, that's what the words "Law & Order" mean in front of "SVU". The police investigate crime, the DAs prosecute the offenders... I could understand if the words "Criminal Intent: Special Victims" came after L&O, but it doesn't.

I agree 100% with TexasBlonde_1 - I remember reading one time where this old lady was raped and no one did a thing about it > that's SVU. I think this year some young woman in the south put her baby in the oven > that's SVU.

And this past season SVU ripped a case with the episode "Rescue" (until ole Dan Truly, who I hope has left SVU, used the back-story to show Liv's personal life). The EMT raped a woman.

Entertainment it is not, but what I understood from earlier seasons of SVU, pre-seasons 8/9; female rape is not the only crimes solved by the Special Victims Unit (which I kinda knew that anyway, and I'm sure you did too); male rape (by male or female), child/elderly rape/murder, crimes against the handicapped (SVU has yet to do a full one), rape in the church (I thought SVU would rip Bishop Eddie Long's exploits), and also various cases of child abuse and even domestic violence. SVU is NOT just a 10PM drama!

I liked SVU because it was really the only L&O that wasn't afraid to step over the boundaries, one I know most is "Raw". NOW (while Baer was EP from seasons 8-12): The victim is pretty much always a rich or well off white WOMAN, whether she was raped or even both raped/murdered, hell even SVU solved just murders ("Wet", "Dirty", "Bully", "Confidential", "Users", "Sugar")

Flatpack: if you don't know the difference already; watch an episode of SVU from seasons 1-7 and then watch one from 8-12... you'll see a drastic and unappealing change.

Mr. Bob Greenblatt (who's really more a "Greenblatt Dick" for cancelling LOLA prematurely) said the network planned to "reset" SVU, the storylines "compelling but grounded". Meaning Warren Leight isn't about to do all this character shipping crap... SVU doesn't need the ship, LOCI needs it. SVU was never intentionally meant for two actors like LOCI was.

When Chris Noth left after season 7, LOCI should have stopped alternating really. Let Wheeler tack on with G/E for a few episodes and then closed out that character. I hope LOCI is renewed an 11th season, but I hope SVU ends if Leight continues as "Neal Baer version 2". L&O and LOLA got a raw deal really - TNT should pick them up to add to their winter/summer dramas. L&O in the winter - NYC, L&O: LA in the summer; need I say more?


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#13 jr6020

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:25 AM

This is interesting for SVU which is up against CSI next year.
The lead of CSI,Laurence Fishburne, is leaving so CSI will be facing changes too.
This evens the odds for them...or odds the evens,because both shows are ageing procedurals facing new developments.

The television landscape is changing. The goliaths are ailing and the time of giants is over.
A smaller race of diverse finite TV shows is replacing them!


Its changing alright...silly reality shows, Idol copies, nasty talk shows; just more of the same triteness. What's on commercial TV these days is far below the quality of CI (and ALL the Laws for that matter). The days when a drama like CI challenges you to think about current issues/events and the law are fast disappearing. God help us all...Jim

Edited by jr6020, 08 June 2011 - 03:27 AM.


#14 flashymom

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:58 AM

Just won't be the same without Christopher. I wish him all the best of luck and much success in his future endeavors!
Chief of Security, USS NoRomo; Queen of the Universe and Ruler of All She Surveys, lol!

#15 Wallyhorse

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 01:55 PM

As noted elsewhere, it's very surprising "SVU" is back at all for a 13th season. This past season widely had been expected to be the last.

What happened with the now-cancelled "LOLA" is to me exactly what happened when WCBS-FM (101.1 in New York) flipped to JACK on June 3, 2005 (link is to a thread the board I'm a moderator of concerning that): Many were angry and the new format never caught on. That's what I think happened with the LA version, which wasn't helped by delays in casting as well.

As also said elsewhere, given what may have been the real circumstances behind the cancellation of the original series after a deal had been in place, I can see the mothership returning for the 2012-'13 season once the deal with TNT for repeats expires and NBC-Universal can "repurpose" repeats on all of its cable outlets. The original series' cancellation was largely in my opinion because of NBC-Universal's apparent growing need to air "repurposed" showings of shows it produces itself on its own networks, but also in my opinion because of Jeff Zucker's long-running feud with Conan o'Brien as Zucker apparently reneged on the deal himself in May 2010 (as that deal was done before Conan signed with TBS, sister network of TNT and the deal, which included TNT signing off on Season 21 repeats was done in March '10 before Conan signed in April '10).

Edited by Wallyhorse, 26 June 2011 - 01:57 PM.

Walt

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#16 ciaddict

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:11 PM

Oy! Not the Zucker/Conan feud again! :blink:
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#17 lady_mephisto86

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 06:41 PM

Oy! Not the Zucker/Conan feud again! :blink:


Good one ciaddict! :D I really doubt Zucker would hold a grudge against O'Brien for this long (if so, Zucker should seriously get help).
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#18 Wallyhorse

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 12:16 AM

Good one ciaddict! :D I really doubt Zucker would hold a grudge against O'Brien for this long (if so, Zucker should seriously get help).


Zucker apparently really does have a longstanding grudge against Conan, dating all the way back to 1986 at Harvard, as noted in this article posted around the time Conan's brief run as host of The Tonight Show ended early last year. Apparently, Zucker really has hated Conan for that long, and if that was the case, really had to swallow a lot of hatred to give Conan "The Tonight Show" (and it may have actually been then-higher ups, remembering then-NBC Entertainment Head Warren Littlefield's decision to have Jay Leno take over "Tonight" from Johnny Carson over David Letterman in 1991-'92 telling Zucker at the time he had to do that like it was done at the time that deal was in place in 2004, before the entire business environment of television completely changed).

This may very well have played into why the original series was canceled given the timing of when the deal for Season 21 was done (March 2010 between NBC, Dick Wolf and TNT), when Conan signed with Turner Broadcasting (April 2010 to do a show on TBS, sister network of TNT) and Jeff Zucker apparently being the one who reneged on the deal for Season 21 of the mothership (May 2010). It also didn't help matters that in that interim, Turner Broadcasting also partnered with CBS on the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament (games now split between CBS, TBS, TNT and TruTV) that will include TNT getting the Final Four beginning in 2014. It may very well prove out in the long run to be that Zucker wanted to punish Turner Broadcasting both for signing Conan and for essentially becoming a cable partner of CBS by making sure Turner didn't get any more repeats of the original series than they already were entitled to (since the deal for Season 21 included TNT getting those repeats).

With Turner Broadcasting no longer part of the equation after next August, NBC would be able to air "repurposed" episodes of the original series on USA Network (and other outlets) were it to be brought back for the 2012-'13 season, which is the main reason why I can see the original series returning next season.

Edited by Wallyhorse, 27 June 2011 - 12:32 AM.

Walt

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#19 krodgers

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:06 PM

Just got back from London,which is a good thing because there are riots over there now!

Speaking of riots, leight is organising big crowd scenes for his first episode of SVU.I like crowd scenes.Something about the organisation of chaos,its formations. He did something similarly interesting in Maltese Cross for LOCI.He says there will be an influence from LOCI on SVU.That might draw in some of the LOCI audience.He also has a mothership returnee in the premiere to draw those fans in. He is looking for unity,appealing to all franchise fans.

He is working well with the fans and seems to genuinely like the process.But beware!
He is probably aware that there is a pattern with the Law and Order franchise, whereby the premieres bring in big numbers out of curiosity, but they are not sustained. That happened with LOCI and LOLA and the later Motherships, and also the UK version. It could happen to SVU too.How can they maintain that curiosity?If they break that pattern and keep or even increase numbers they are onto something good...Better still if they start small and build an audience up.Its not always a sign of success to get big premiere numbers.

I think its because the episodes become predictable and formulaic and people get bored with that.He might keep their attention by involving audience actively,something that keeps them watching to solve a question,or a puzzle(!), or by asking them to evaluate new characters.He needs to activate the audience to keep them watching!

I think he will "treat success and disaster both the same" anyway,not because he has read the Rudyard Kipling poem (!), but because he is an existentialist at Heart.He will be temperate towards premiere numbers, and cautious.That helps.Also it will counter balance Wolf, who tends to go overboard!

here is a book reference to mother/daughter child abuse which might interest leight if he is considering an episode on that subject. Its called "Cries Unheard:the story of Mary Bell" by Gitta Sereny.Its a detailed profile of Mary Bell who was convicted of manslaughter of two small boy when she was only 11 herself.The book explores the abuse in Mary Bells own background,involving her mother who was a prostitute.It portrays a world without love and how that can create monsters.

Its a very powerful case and would would make the basis for a very compelling episode, a double episode perhaps with a flashback to the original case, and a flashforward to her living as a new identity.We might follow the role of Justice in both situations.There is no justice capable of containing this kind of case. Its dark.

Mary Bell was later released and lives under another identity.Taking on another identity is itself a problem i think....

The whole scenario is very interesting and well documented.The role of the media in it,and the role of the public.It could stir up complicated and contradictory feelings.

There are huge ramifications from this one case so he would need a research team on it: same sex child abuse,the role of the various agencies in it,the inability of Judicial system to match its needs as it becomes a profession with demnds of its own,the problems of living with false identity,the role of media and public,the way the victim is filed by the system, the child as a murderer.

What happens when Justice becomes a business, a profession with professionals serving their own needs and perpetuating themselves as business?Another layer is created that further removes the people from the system.Its dehumanising.Justice is now a business using business language.What is really going on in that courtroom where real voices cant speak,where things are controlled by the way people are positioned and by people speaking on behalf of another.Distancing and controlling, but not objective, though that is the pretence.The whole space of a courtroom is about containment, not genuine exploration.We are just containing crime,not looking for justice.If we were looking for justice we would treat the victim better.

Justice. I had a strange encounter in a bookshop in London,archetypal.It mad me think of the film,"84 Charring Cross Road." I was looking for an obscure book and this other person was looking for an obscure bookshop.Bang!We didnt find either but we found each other.He was reading a book called "Design and Justice", so of course i had to know more....Turns out he is a very important man (!) and architect...but he knows the things i know,universal things. Is there justice in the shape and design of buildings?What do our judicial buildings really say about societies sense of Justice, through their use of space etc?What we say is not te same as what we show. Fascinating stuff....

Hey Wolfy, are you out there? If so you must go and see The Globes production of Comedy Of Errors, which is coming to Santa Barbara and Los Angeles in November. If you dont know already, I will post details here about it nearer the time.Rebecca Gatward is the director accompanying the troupe, and she is a past student of mine.She is interpreting the play from a neoplatonic perspective which is unique but true to its humanist origins.She doesnt have twins on stage. She has one actor with a divided self.She also has a whirling dervish!Its brilliant. She is a brilliant interpreter of text.She directs for BBC.....so you might find her interesting. She also knows Barbara Machin,who creaed "Waking the Dead"...the crime show whose final season beat your UK rewrites in the ratings!!!!You must see the play and meet her.You need to know more women like her in the business!She holds her humanist values in a business that doesnt have any...values,I mean!You would like her. She is fearless.

Thats all for now. Oh, Leight says he is using a director from "Breaking Bad" on SVU. Maybe there will be a more Indie cable feel this new SVU.Its just that I cant come to terms with a show that makes entertainmet out of sex crimes every week.It still feels voyeuristic to me.Like Murdochs papers.However much they justify it, they cant!
How will Leight address that I wonder....

They need to expose that voyeurism head on,underline it,not hide behind it.
Perhaps thematically throughout the season,using visuals and verbals.
They need to explore it as an aspect of what they are doing.Its a problem that comes with the subject matter and cant be hidden.If you hide it you are in collusion with it.They need to make it an issue.


With all due respect, but I thought this was LOCI's board, not SVU?:blink:


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#20 kiffen

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:32 AM

TRUE BELIEVERS

The contrasting black/white skin of the opening rape scenes reverberate in the black/white close-ups of Olivia and Ellis in their conflict encounter in the closing scenes. There is abrasion and tenderness in both scenes. And in between nothing is black or white. Those tangled threads that our brain likes to classify as clear opposites are in fact not. Instead they are the other knot, the kind we have seen in previous episodes, tangles that tie us up so that, as Ellis concludes, "it is confusing". No absolutes.

The whole episode is a deliberate mix up, and not just over police procedure. Sarah is a very pale white middle class music student who appears pure and polite. She seems dreamy, naive, restrained, a "good girl from a strict upbringing" performing classical piano recitals that are exquisite. Her choice of wall posters reflects her culture; Rousseaus sleeping gypsy", Monets lilyponds, Degas' ballet dancers, Chiricos head sculpture (I think).This art is dreamy but also disturbing....and thats the other side to Sarah, the side that chooses to be an uptown girl in a downtown neighbourhood, who has a fake ID so that she can frequent bars to drink beer and join in bawdy singalongs and maybe pick up downtown boys. No wonder she likes "Piano Man". This Sarah is quite happy to have an "illegal" love affair with her teacher. She keeps a stash of beer in her flat and she also has outbursts of temper. From "random man to rape victim", its possible there is a connection between rough sex and rape. She is a contradiction. We see that come together in her music and in her choice of footwear!

Likewise Michael Wedmore (or Wedless) is a mix of contradictions,more or less. He is an innocent dark black man, a rapist, a responsible father who deals pot "to provide for his family". His act of rape seems brutal but also gentle. Its odd and not what we expect in our Mind's desire to compartmentalise.

Cutter and Amaro are mixed up too, both supportive and critical of each other. The police case is both standard and irregular. The crisis councellor is both sympathetic and alienating. The medical exam is comforting but also a further violation. We see the cut and paste opposing arguments between Cutter and Ellis so that the outcome is a mixture, "we got the right man, but not the right way."We see "boxers likened to musicians", antithetical but alike in that they both depend on their hands.

This mixing up of opposites is condensed clearly in the moment when Sarah faces the same question in two opposite ways as she identifies the suspect-
"There. Thats him – are you sure? – I think so."
"Thats him. – are you sure?- Absolutely."
The detective then says, "copy that!", which is great writers irony since they just have! Sarah is both sure and unsure. Its incongruous and a contradiction.

Ellis and Olivia are also presented in opposition but in the end there is a sense of mingling as Ellis smiles his invite and Olivia reveals the fatigue of a life out of balance. So they connect and the episode ends with this same question asked of Sarah, "Are you sure?". Its an opening for development.

In the middle of all this disturbing confusion and incongruity one thing is plain and simple; there are parallels between Olivia and Sarah,despite their age differences. One lives in flat 4B and the other in flat 4E. Both are shown alone, battling the world in situations that are "gruelling emotionally", combatants. This aloneness is constantly being emphasized, "studying music is hard because you are alone a lot/I didn't ask for company/ remember when you thought you were strong enough to handle anything by yourself/Im OK on my own". Strong, self-reliant women do not open up to others. It would be in their nature to look inside themselves for strength and support rather than depend on another. Sarah is so similar to Olivia that in this episode its Sarah who voices Olivia's refrain of "something's happened", because they have this sense of something beyond reason in common too, "I wasn't thinking/It doesn't make sense."

As each episode oscillates upon the need to re-balance that which is out of balance, measuring the scales of law and order in the behaviour that leads to criminal investigation, we are also following Olivia on her journey as she moves relentlessly towards her fate or final "Battle" (a recurring word this episode) or Ultima Thule. I am caught in my own contradiction here too, battling with an episode that both bores me with legal technicality and enthrawls me with structural depths. Maybe thats why the cheeky monkey is sitting in that chair!

1) dramatic irony of Munch/Ellis scene; "Have we met? / I admire your second act" Pause. (Giggle.)

2) Is it usual to have boat paintings in court rooms?

3) Nice reference to legal technicalities as "death by 1000 paper cuts". I understand that sentiment.

4) This episode showed an uptown girl with downtown man in a rape case. "Scorched Earth" showed an uptown man with a downtown woman in a rape case. Are we looking at the sexuality of social differences here, opposites brought together?

5)"Healing begins when someone bears witness, not by sending someone to prison", says Olivia. Thats an important statement in the episode, to bear witness, to make accusation public .Bearing witness is an interesting concept, about empowerment.

My daughter had a similar moment last year, not on the same scale as rape but related. A stall owner in Camden market in London made lewd suggestion to her and tried to get "touchy" with his hands. She immediately yelled it out loud as assault, creating a public incident. People started congregating and women came to her defence, shaming the man. He must have realised he had bitten off more than he could chew. My daughter picked out several items from his stall and told him he owed her these items because of his behaviour and that she was taking them, assaulting him really. He said, what about my family, this is my job and my earnings. She told him, if he was a family man he shouldn't have been touching her up in the first place. That was his fault and not her concern. She walked off triumphant. The man was a public disgrace and also poorer! She was a bit shaken because only 16, but she felt powerful in her sexuality. When I met up with her afterwards she was oozing confidence. Im not sure what the man felt because everyone knew about it, but it's another example of empowerment by bearing witness in public accusation.

Wow. I'm very impressed with your daughter's actions. Even more impressed because she's only 16. Women need to learn to speak up because men have been getting away with bad behaviour for years. We need more strong women who will not allow men to behave badly. Men need to know that some things are not acceptable.




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