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Peter and Mozzie


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#41 Sedona

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:16 PM

Wow, Sedona. What an interesting analysis of Mozzie where Peter (and El) are concerned. I've noticed that Peter's impression and feelings about Mozzie are pretty stable and unchanging. He sees Mozzie for who he is and has compassion (if not occasional impatience) for him. Mozzie seems to be distancing himself from Peter over the last few episodes. He has seemed so much "cooler" in his relationships, even with Neal (especially at the end of On the Fence). I suppose he is preparing to run with the last big score. I see some fireworks in the making with him feeling betrayed by Neal (who lied to him about the manifest), and then having to come to terms with how he feels toward Peter for Elizabeth's sake in upcoming episodes.

I couldn't help but notice that Peter felt a concerned empathy for Mozzie (and Neal) when they discovered that Keller had killed Hale. The moment they saw Keller with the gun on Hale in the security feed, Peter reached out and put his hand on Mozzie's shoulder (and then moments later asked Neal if he was OK).

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Excellent point, Mary; I noticed that reaching out to Moz as well. Peter is a very caring, emphatic person and being in law enforcement, he certainly knows what the family/friends of murder victims feel when they see their loved ones deceased. Moz has been trying to distance himself for some time now but hasn't been able to stick with it anymore than Neal has with his flight to freedom via the treasure.


I look for some intense fireworks next week between Peter and Moz.
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#42 suebsg9

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:06 PM

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Under the radar is now airing on the sleuth channel marathon for WC. Ah rainman reference.

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#43 Pamela11

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:30 PM

Excellent point, Mary; I noticed that reaching out to Moz as well. Peter is a very caring, emphatic person and being in law enforcement, he certainly knows what the family/friends of murder victims feel when they see their loved ones deceased. Moz has been trying to distance himself for some time now but hasn't been able to stick with it anymore than Neal has with his flight to freedom via the treasure.


I look for some intense fireworks next week between Peter and Moz.


Reaching out to Mozzie was quite noticable. Peter is at heart a very considerate man. I was also reminded of a similar scene in "Need to Know" when Moz reached out to touch Peter in the warehouse. He was more willing then to allow some intimacy; now he is pulling away to distance himself for the chance to flee with the treasure. He knows too, what the act will mean to Peter and also Elizabeth. A sense of betrayal, no matter that he has never denied being a conman or acknowledged verbal friendship.

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#44 suebsg9

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 11:37 PM

Reaching out to Mozzie was quite noticable. Peter is at heart a very considerate man. I was also reminded of a similar scene in "Need to Know" when Moz reached out to touch Peter in the warehouse. He was more willing then to allow some intimacy; now he is pulling away to distance himself for the chance to flee with the treasure. He knows too, what the act will mean to Peter and also Elizabeth. A sense of betrayal, no matter that he has never denied being a conman or acknowledged verbal friendship.

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Peter reached out to Moz when Hale was killed by Keller. Peter did the same thing for Neal.

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#45 Sedona

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 11:50 PM

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Peter reached out to Moz when Hale was killed by Keller. Peter did the same thing for Neal.


I'll be interested in seeing what Mozzie's reaction will by if Neal decides to stay ( no spoiler because I don't know a thing) or if Moz himself can go, when it really comes down to it. Of course, Moz could go and come back if he doesn't get caught but I'm thinking Peter would not welcome him back. Nor would Elizabeth.



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#46 elledeegee

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:20 AM

Something I don't think I've posted yet...

Remember in Dentist of Detroit, Mozzie says that Mr. Jeffries found him a nice family. They taught him about music, art and culture. They were very nice for "suits" but they had a son. An only child who was jealous of Mozzie and framed him for stealing a valuable heirloom. He was afraid of being blamed for something he didn't do so he ran away.

Meanwhile in the present...

Mozzie is like that only child. He stole something valuable under everyone's nose and technically (though apparently not intentionally) framed Neal for the crime. It's even possible in the back of his mind he meant to frame Neal as a hope to make him leave. He's the only child now but instead of trying to get rid of the competition which was Neal, he was trying to hold on to him and separate him from the "suits" aka Peter, El, FBI, Sara... He's trying to keep Neal with him and not share him.

He's just as jealous and greedy of the relationship with Neal as his so called adoptive brother was of him taking his parents from him.
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Neal: I want to buy a bakery.
Mozz: I like donuts.
Neal: Hot and fresh, just the way momma made them.
Mozz: Bear claws?
Neal: Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.
Mozz: Mmmmm...
Neal: Right here.

#47 ilee1990

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:48 AM

I'll be interested in seeing what Mozzie's reaction will by if Neal decides to stay ( no spoiler because I don't know a thing) or if Moz himself can go, when it really comes down to it. Of course, Moz could go and come back if he doesn't get caught but I'm thinking Peter would not welcome him back. Nor would Elizabeth.




I think that he has developed a close bond with Neal. That's why he is waiting on him to leave. I think that in the end Mozzie will realize that his dream home is already his. With Neal, Peter and Elizabeth. I think he's just acting out now from a fear of commitment.

#48 Sedona

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:59 AM

I think that he has developed a close bond with Neal. That's why he is waiting on him to leave. I think that in the end Mozzie will realize that his dream home is already his. With Neal, Peter and Elizabeth. I think he's just acting out now from a fear of commitment.


Very good points, both of you. I think Moz has had the dream of the last big score for so long he just cannot (or will not) accept the fact that the situation has changed - most definitely for Neal but for Moz as well. Although he hates to admit it, Moz has grown close to Peter and certainly Elizabeth - all that talk of suits is for outsiders - or at least, 'suits' he doesn't know or has worked with. He wants Neal to share the dream as well and I think part of Moz (I like the only child scenario, Elle) has become a bit jealous of how close Neal is to Peter. Not a feeling he makes an intentional effort to cultivate, it just rears its ugly head from time to time. Moz doesn't want to give up the dream and by forcing Neal to go along, he thinks this makes it right for both of them. But I do agree with ilee1990; part of it is a fear of commitment - to 'outsiders' for lack of a better term. But truthfully I cannot imagine either Neal or most certainly Mozzie happy on a desert island. Leave New York for that? No way!
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#49 CathysOpinion

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:42 AM

Something I don't think I've posted yet...

Remember in Dentist of Detroit, Mozzie says that Mr. Jeffries found him a nice family. They taught him about music, art and culture. They were very nice for "suits" but they had a son. An only child who was jealous of Mozzie and framed him for stealing a valuable heirloom. He was afraid of being blamed for something he didn't do so he ran away.

Meanwhile in the present...

Mozzie is like that only child. He stole something valuable under everyone's nose and technically (though apparently not intentionally) framed Neal for the crime. It's even possible in the back of his mind he meant to frame Neal as a hope to make him leave. He's the only child now but instead of trying to get rid of the competition which was Neal, he was trying to hold on to him and separate him from the "suits" aka Peter, El, FBI, Sara... He's trying to keep Neal with him and not share him.

He's just as jealous and greedy of the relationship with Neal as his so called adoptive brother was of him taking his parents from him.

Excellent analysis. And yes, I agree that everything Mozzie did implicates Neal in the treasure and nothing implicates Mozzie.
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#50 Sedona

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:10 PM

Excellent analysis. And yes, I agree that everything Mozzie did implicates Neal in the treasure and nothing implicates Mozzie.


And that is precisely why it is so difficult to see Neal going along with this. Friendship is one thing but going to of prison for another's crime would be something else again.
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#51 debmart

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:19 PM

Excellent analysis. And yes, I agree that everything Mozzie did implicates Neal in the treasure and nothing implicates Mozzie.


True. Not only that but Hale is now dead because Mozzie involved him with the treasure, and by putting a hit out on Keller he has implicated Neal in a conspiracy to commit murder. Seriously with friends like this who needs enemies.
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#52 CathysOpinion

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 09:40 PM

True. Not only that but Hale is now dead because Mozzie involved him with the treasure, and by putting a hit out on Keller he has implicated Neal in a conspiracy to commit murder. Seriously with friends like this who needs enemies.

It seems that bad luck follows people that Mozzie gets involved with.

In Forging Bonds, Peter had two bonds that were redeemed, but no visual on Neal. Then Mozzie, who at the age of 12, cons a Mafia boss out of $250,000, yet he needs Neal to cash in his forged bonds to raise $5000? So now the FBI has a visual on Neal. Adler finds out about Neal, Mozzie is still invisible. Peter chases Neal for 3 years, catches him, and he goes to prison.

Of course Mozzie implicates Neal in the treasure by using Neal's art, that Peter saw and knew existed (even a store room, I wonder if Peter ever checked that out). So there is evidence to implicate Neal but not Mozzie. If they left, since Neal is on probation, the FBI doesn't need anything else to charge Neal with, there will be a major manhunt to find him. Mozzie, they won't have anything on him.

Then Mozzie puts the cam feed on Neal's laptop. I hope Neal takes out his hard drive, destroys it and gets rid of it. If Peter checks Neal's anklet, he'll find that Neal was at his house (why Mozzie couldn't do the break in is beyond me). I hope Mozzie contacted Sally to hack into the US Marshall database to alter Neal's data (like Fowler did in Out of the Box).

Even though noone but Neal knows where Mozzie's safe houses are, Mozzie keeps everything at Neal's. The passports for one thing. I hope Neal goes through his apartment and destroys everything that points to the final trip to the island.

Now Mozzie went and sold the Dega.
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#53 Sedona

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 10:36 AM

It seems that bad luck follows people that Mozzie gets involved with.

In Forging Bonds, Peter had two bonds that were redeemed, but no visual on Neal. Then Mozzie, who at the age of 12, cons a Mafia boss out of $250,000, yet he needs Neal to cash in his forged bonds to raise $5000? So now the FBI has a visual on Neal. Adler finds out about Neal, Mozzie is still invisible. Peter chases Neal for 3 years, catches him, and he goes to prison.

Of course Mozzie implicates Neal in the treasure by using Neal's art, that Peter saw and knew existed (even a store room, I wonder if Peter ever checked that out). So there is evidence to implicate Neal but not Mozzie. If they left, since Neal is on probation, the FBI doesn't need anything else to charge Neal with, there will be a major manhunt to find him. Mozzie, they won't have anything on him.

Then Mozzie puts the cam feed on Neal's laptop. I hope Neal takes out his hard drive, destroys it and gets rid of it. If Peter checks Neal's anklet, he'll find that Neal was at his house (why Mozzie couldn't do the break in is beyond me). I hope Mozzie contacted Sally to hack into the US Marshall database to alter Neal's data (like Fowler did in Out of the Box).

Even though noone but Neal knows where Mozzie's safe houses are, Mozzie keeps everything at Neal's. The passports for one thing. I hope Neal goes through his apartment and destroys everything that points to the final trip to the island.

Now Mozzie went and sold the Dega.


Bad luck or, forgive me, sloppy writing. Keeping the treasure cam on Neal's computer was just asking for trouble. And Moz should have been the one to break into the Burkes (although, frankly, that is something I would have a very hard time forgiving and forgetting), not Neal, who can be easily be tracked all over the city by Peter. Moz planting Neal's artwork in the warehouse though was primarily THE most stupid thing he ever did. Very sloppy - especially as he knows very well that Peter is in and out there all the time. I was glad Neal reminded Moz of that recently.
It will be interesting to see how Peter and Moz reconcile - everything will hinge on Moz's co-operation in finding Elizabeth, I expect. But it would be nice to see Moz suffer some retribution for his actions in this mess.
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#54 NDKidsMom

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 01:23 AM

Bad luck or, forgive me, sloppy writing. Keeping the treasure cam on Neal's computer was just asking for trouble. And Moz should have been the one to break into the Burkes (although, frankly, that is something I would have a very hard time forgiving and forgetting), not Neal, who can be easily be tracked all over the city by Peter. Moz planting Neal's artwork in the warehouse though was primarily THE most stupid thing he ever did. Very sloppy - especially as he knows very well that Peter is in and out there all the time. I was glad Neal reminded Moz of that recently.
It will be interesting to see how Peter and Moz reconcile - everything will hinge on Moz's co-operation in finding Elizabeth, I expect. But it would be nice to see Moz suffer some retribution for his actions in this mess.


I agree that it will be interesting to see how Peter and Mozzie's relationship evolves from here. Mozzie has tried hard to distance himself from Peter lately, but also recognizes how special Neal's relationship is with Peter - at the end of Dentist of Detroit he told Neal to "enjoy it while it lasts". It was like he saw Peter as a similar mentor/guardian to Neal as Mr. Jeffries was to Mozzie... someone who believes in Neal's potential and cares about him. Now with the treasure being the reason Elizabeth is in trouble, and Mozzie (I'm assuming) having to give it up to save her, there's lots of reason for resentment between Peter and Mozzie from both of their perspectives. I get the feeling that Peter has never really worried before now about Mozzie doing anything seriously wrong. He's got to feel now that he can never let his guard down with either Neal or Mozzie.

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#55 NDKidsMom

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:34 AM

So, when Peter finds out (as I assume he will when the show comes back in January) that it was actually Mozzie who stole Adler's treasure, not Neal, how will that change his relationship with Moz? I really think that Peter never believed that Mozzie has ever been involved in anything all that serious. Does Neal end up protecting Moz by accepting some of the guilt for the treasure? Will Peter even care which one of them is more at fault? I guess they were both full accomplices once Mozzie revealed it to Neal...

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#56 suebsg9

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:49 AM

So, when Peter finds out (as I assume he will when the show comes back in January) that it was actually Mozzie who stole Adler's treasure, not Neal, how will that change his relationship with Moz? I really think that Peter never believed that Mozzie has ever been involved in anything all that serious. Does Neal end up protecting Moz by accepting some of the guilt for the treasure? Will Peter even care which one of them is more at fault? I guess they were both full accomplices once Mozzie revealed it to Neal...


In On Guard there were only three people besides the FBI that knew about the treasure. Peter named all three when he started throwing suspecions around. Yes he gunned for Neal at first but he did also say Moz and Alex. So I am not sure how well that will go over with him. But both hid the treasure which now endangered his wife. And we know that Moz now also knew that Keller had something big planned even though warned Neal. Neal wanted to get to the real dega without letting Peter know that Moz was contacted by Keller. I think that would have been a smart thing to do no matter how much you wanted the painting found let PEter know that KEller did contact Moz. Neal knows how dangerous Keller can be.
Spoiler


Wow I hope that makes sense lol. Doing this while watching the showing at 9:00 a.m.

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#57 NDKidsMom

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:56 PM

In On Guard there were only three people besides the FBI that knew about the treasure. Peter named all three when he started throwing suspecions around. Yes he gunned for Neal at first but he did also say Moz and Alex. So I am not sure how well that will go over with him. But both hid the treasure which now endangered his wife. And we know that Moz now also knew that Keller had something big planned even though warned Neal. Neal wanted to get to the real dega without letting Peter know that Moz was contacted by Keller. I think that would have been a smart thing to do no matter how much you wanted the painting found let PEter know that KEller did contact Moz. Neal knows how dangerous Keller can be.

Spoiler


Wow I hope that makes sense lol. Doing this while watching the showing at 9:00 a.m.


Sue, I think your speculation on how to clear both Neal and Mozzie from the treasure fiasco would be the perfect way to go (maybe you should be a consultant to the writers... I like where you take things. Maybe we could get a little "Peter in Peril" that way too? :) )

I can't remember which thread you asked whether Keller told Peter that Neal has the treasure... I watched the heart-wrenching last few minutes of Countdown for about the 50th time last night and really listened to what Keller said. He told Peter "I've seen the treasure. Your boy Caffrey has it." It really looked like Peter believed him, too, the way he let out that "oh brother, now what do I do" exhale. So, with Mozzie having left, presumably with the treasure, it will be interesting to see how Peter deals with the realization that this was all Mozzie's doing, not Neal's.

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#58 Sedona

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:05 PM

Sue, I think your speculation on how to clear both Neal and Mozzie from the treasure fiasco would be the perfect way to go (maybe you should be a consultant to the writers... I like where you take things. Maybe we could get a little "Peter in Peril" that way too? :) )

I can't remember which thread you asked whether Keller told Peter that Neal has the treasure... I watched the heart-wrenching last few minutes of Countdown for about the 50th time last night and really listened to what Keller said. He told Peter "I've seen the treasure. Your boy Caffrey has it." It really looked like Peter believed him, too, the way he let out that "oh brother, now what do I do" exhale. So, with Mozzie having left, presumably with the treasure, it will be interesting to see how Peter deals with the realization that this was all Mozzie's doing, not Neal's.


Oh, I think Peter does believe Keller, because it does confirm his suspicions all along. What Peter does not know is Moz's part in all of this. I don't think Peter has ever really completed trusted Moz with everything; he realizes most of the time their cases together have been because they have the same goal in mind. For example, Peter does trust Moz in Prisoner's Dilemma, especially when he learns Moz hates the lawyer involved and, on general principle, dirty cops. So, no problems.


I'm still at a loss to explain why Peter has never said anything about Moz regarding the treasure though.He's suspected Neal all along but he knows what Neal's into, Moz is too. Its just this time Moz got them involved first, not Neal. But Peter knows Moz is a life long, well, crook, and I don't think Peter will be absolutely shocked to find out that Moz was involved. But this is all after the shock and fog of war regarding El's kidnapping has passed.
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#59 suebsg9

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:48 PM

Oh, I think Peter does believe Keller, because it does confirm his suspicions all along. What Peter does not know is Moz's part in all of this. I don't think Peter has ever really completed trusted Moz with everything; he realizes most of the time their cases together have been because they have the same goal in mind. For example, Peter does trust Moz in Prisoner's Dilemma, especially when he learns Moz hates the lawyer involved and, on general principle, dirty cops. So, no problems.


I'm still at a loss to explain why Peter has never said anything about Moz regarding the treasure though.He's suspected Neal all along but he knows what Neal's into, Moz is too. Its just this time Moz got them involved first, not Neal. But Peter knows Moz is a life long, well, crook, and I don't think Peter will be absolutely shocked to find out that Moz was involved. But this is all after the shock and fog of war regarding El's kidnapping has passed.


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It will be intresting to see Peters face when he realizes that it was all Moz.

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#60 NDKidsMom

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:21 AM

Oh, I think Peter does believe Keller, because it does confirm his suspicions all along. What Peter does not know is Moz's part in all of this. I don't think Peter has ever really completed trusted Moz with everything; he realizes most of the time their cases together have been because they have the same goal in mind. For example, Peter does trust Moz in Prisoner's Dilemma, especially when he learns Moz hates the lawyer involved and, on general principle, dirty cops. So, no problems.

I'm still at a loss to explain why Peter has never said anything about Moz regarding the treasure though.He's suspected Neal all along but he knows what Neal's into, Moz is too. Its just this time Moz got them involved first, not Neal. But Peter knows Moz is a life long, well, crook, and I don't think Peter will be absolutely shocked to find out that Moz was involved. But this is all after the shock and fog of war regarding El's kidnapping has passed.


I don't think Mozzie has ever really shown the skill involved to make a score this big. Even when he and Neal first met, Mozzie was kind of the idea man, and Neal did all the work. I was shocked when Mozzie was behind the stealing of the treasure. Maybe Peter will be shocked, too!

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