Here is a place for people to get together who like to talk about the law and to go over the cases that are used on SVU and discuss the job of the ADA. This is a place to talk about any mistakes that are made with rulings, or to talk about why a ruling was made and what charges were brought against the defendant, etc., etc.
So bring on the law!
30 replies to this topic
#1
MunchzHunch
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Posted 10 October 2009 - 10:06 PM
#2
IrishEyes
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Posted 11 October 2009 - 08:25 AM
Sounds like a good idea and if the topic takes off, I will pin it to the top so we won't have to bump it up.
If a doctor, lawyer or dentist had 40 people in his/her office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them allwith professional excellence for 9 months, then he/she might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job" - Donald Quinn
Teacher Appreciation Week
#3
MunchzHunch
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Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:11 AM
Sounds like a good idea and if the topic takes off, I will pin it to the top so we won't have to bump it up.
Cool beans. I figured people could also post quotes from episodes where there is usage of a court case or ruling such as the one I saw yesterday while watching guilt.
People v. Gerassi which is when a victim's grand jury testimony can be read at trial when the victim has been made unavailable due to meeting with foul play or harm that can be blamed on the defendant.
Things like that, I thought would be cool to discuss.
#4
MunchzHunch
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 10:52 AM
Okay so let's talk about theory of a crime. I was watching Monogamy last night and in the scene where Elliot, Alex and Olivia were in Warner's office trying to get solid medical evidence as to whether or not Richard Manning's baby was born alive or not. Alex said, after Warner said she was going to testify that the baby was a live birth, that it had to be clear that the baby was a live birth because if she was going to charge him for murder of the baby she had to drop the assault charge and the abortion charge as well as the ateempted murder charge of his wife. Alex said there can only be on theory of the crime which was he was trying to kill his wife or his child. I don't get that because in the Lacy Peterson case, which is the case that SVU stole their story from, Scott Peterson was charged with murder in the deaths of his wife as well as his unborn child. Lacy Peterson was I think 8 months pregnant at the time of her death and Scott still went down for the murder of that baby because if that baby had been born it would have lived, which is an argument that Liv made in Cragen's office when Alex was going over what her office was going to chrage Manning with. So why couldnt Manning be charged with attempted murder in the attack on his wife and the murder of his child which he later on killed after taking it from the parking garage?
Since when can a person only be charged with one crime at a time when they have clearly committed two?
Since when can a person only be charged with one crime at a time when they have clearly committed two?
#5
IrishEyes
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 06:20 PM
I didn't wait. I pinned it. Hisgirl can really help us out with the legalities of the episodes when she gets the time.
If a doctor, lawyer or dentist had 40 people in his/her office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them allwith professional excellence for 9 months, then he/she might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job" - Donald Quinn
Teacher Appreciation Week
#6
MunchzHunch
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 06:40 PM
I didn't wait. I pinned it. Hisgirl can really help us out with the legalities of the episodes when she gets the time.
Is Hisgirl a lawyer?
#7
IrishEyes
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 06:42 PM
Is Hisgirl a lawyer?
Yes
If a doctor, lawyer or dentist had 40 people in his/her office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them allwith professional excellence for 9 months, then he/she might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job" - Donald Quinn
Teacher Appreciation Week
#8
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:42 AM
MunchzHunch Posted Yesterday, 11:52 AM
Okay so let's talk about theory of a crime. I was watching Monogamy last night and in the scene where Elliot, Alex and Olivia were in Warner's office trying to get solid medical evidence as to whether or not Richard Manning's baby was born alive or not. Alex said, after Warner said she was going to testify that the baby was a live birth, that it had to be clear that the baby was a live birth because if she was going to charge him for murder of the baby she had to drop the assault charge and the abortion charge as well as the ateempted murder charge of his wife. Alex said there can only be on theory of the crime which was he was trying to kill his wife or his child. I don't get that because in the Lacy Peterson case, which is the case that SVU stole their story from, Scott Peterson was charged with murder in the deaths of his wife as well as his unborn child. Lacy Peterson was I think 8 months pregnant at the time of her death and Scott still went down for the murder of that baby because if that baby had been born it would have lived, which is an argument that Liv made in Cragen's office when Alex was going over what her office was going to chrage Manning with. So why couldnt Manning be charged with attempted murder in the attack on his wife and the murder of his child which he later on killed after taking it from the parking garage?
Since when can a person only be charged with one crime at a time when they have clearly committed two?
California and New York have different laws about the killing of an unborn child. In California, murder charges can be brought if the fetus is older than seven weeks, the point at which quickening occurs. In New York, a person "when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a human being who has been born and is alive". If Manning kicked his wife and killed the baby before removing it, it was abortion in the first degree. If he beat the baby after it was born, it was murder. Alex explained this in Cragen's office.
At the end we find out the baby was born alive. But before that, it was not clear whether we are talking about one act or two. If the baby had been killed during the act on Manning's wife, there is only one act committed. The question of what to charge depends on Manning's intent. If Manning intended to kill the baby but not his wife, there would be no attempted murder charge for the attack on her. If Manning was trying to kill his wife, then the baby was just along for the ride. There would be no specific intent to kill the child. It isn't until they find out that Manning took a living child away, that there is a separate act to base a murder charge on.
Alex could have brought charges against Manning for assault on Nicole and murder for the child. But she would have left the field open for the defense to argue the alternate theory of the crime. Manning wanted to punish his cheating wife and the baby's death was an accident. Two conflicting theories is a breeding ground for reasonable doubt. Alex couldn't give the jury too many choices. She went with her best chance for getting a conviction.
Okay so let's talk about theory of a crime. I was watching Monogamy last night and in the scene where Elliot, Alex and Olivia were in Warner's office trying to get solid medical evidence as to whether or not Richard Manning's baby was born alive or not. Alex said, after Warner said she was going to testify that the baby was a live birth, that it had to be clear that the baby was a live birth because if she was going to charge him for murder of the baby she had to drop the assault charge and the abortion charge as well as the ateempted murder charge of his wife. Alex said there can only be on theory of the crime which was he was trying to kill his wife or his child. I don't get that because in the Lacy Peterson case, which is the case that SVU stole their story from, Scott Peterson was charged with murder in the deaths of his wife as well as his unborn child. Lacy Peterson was I think 8 months pregnant at the time of her death and Scott still went down for the murder of that baby because if that baby had been born it would have lived, which is an argument that Liv made in Cragen's office when Alex was going over what her office was going to chrage Manning with. So why couldnt Manning be charged with attempted murder in the attack on his wife and the murder of his child which he later on killed after taking it from the parking garage?
Since when can a person only be charged with one crime at a time when they have clearly committed two?
California and New York have different laws about the killing of an unborn child. In California, murder charges can be brought if the fetus is older than seven weeks, the point at which quickening occurs. In New York, a person "when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a human being who has been born and is alive". If Manning kicked his wife and killed the baby before removing it, it was abortion in the first degree. If he beat the baby after it was born, it was murder. Alex explained this in Cragen's office.
At the end we find out the baby was born alive. But before that, it was not clear whether we are talking about one act or two. If the baby had been killed during the act on Manning's wife, there is only one act committed. The question of what to charge depends on Manning's intent. If Manning intended to kill the baby but not his wife, there would be no attempted murder charge for the attack on her. If Manning was trying to kill his wife, then the baby was just along for the ride. There would be no specific intent to kill the child. It isn't until they find out that Manning took a living child away, that there is a separate act to base a murder charge on.
Alex could have brought charges against Manning for assault on Nicole and murder for the child. But she would have left the field open for the defense to argue the alternate theory of the crime. Manning wanted to punish his cheating wife and the baby's death was an accident. Two conflicting theories is a breeding ground for reasonable doubt. Alex couldn't give the jury too many choices. She went with her best chance for getting a conviction.
#9
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Posted 15 October 2009 - 01:41 AM
What exactly is the Twinkie defense? I keep hearing it but I don't know what it's about. All I know about Twinkies is that it's a desert snack.
#10
Hisgirlforevermore
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Posted 15 October 2009 - 11:11 AM
SVUlovesME Posted Today, 01:41 AM
What exactly is the Twinkie defense? I keep hearing it but I don't know what it's about. All I know about Twinkies is that it's a desert snack.
The Twinkie defense is like "Beam me up Scotty!" or "Play it again Sam.". It is so ingrained in popular culture that people believe it actually existed. But it is the snappy term used by SF Chronicle columnist Herb Caen for the defense theory in the case of Dan White who was charged with the murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Harvey Milk. The real defense was diminished capacity due to depression. There were no Twinkies involved but one of the examples the defense gave to show White's depression was that he went from being a health food advocate to eating junk food instead.
When someone refers to a defendant using a Twinkie defense, every example I can think of has to do with a psychiatric theory that doesn't meet the standards for an insanity defense. "My client isn't insane but his actions were the result of a mental condition for which he is not responsible.".
What exactly is the Twinkie defense? I keep hearing it but I don't know what it's about. All I know about Twinkies is that it's a desert snack.
The Twinkie defense is like "Beam me up Scotty!" or "Play it again Sam.". It is so ingrained in popular culture that people believe it actually existed. But it is the snappy term used by SF Chronicle columnist Herb Caen for the defense theory in the case of Dan White who was charged with the murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Harvey Milk. The real defense was diminished capacity due to depression. There were no Twinkies involved but one of the examples the defense gave to show White's depression was that he went from being a health food advocate to eating junk food instead.
When someone refers to a defendant using a Twinkie defense, every example I can think of has to do with a psychiatric theory that doesn't meet the standards for an insanity defense. "My client isn't insane but his actions were the result of a mental condition for which he is not responsible.".
#11
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Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:38 PM
Today I was watching Damaged and I am so confused. I am not sure this is a "legal" question, but I guess it could be.
Okay, so just a recap of Damaged so we are all on the same page: Case of the adopted daughter who had her younger sister killed as part of a set up at the video store. Everyone with me? Okay, the question I have is about the contraction of gonnerea. In the episode it was discovered that the little girl who was shot had gonnerea which is why the Special Victims Unit got involved in the first place. The sister of the girl later admitted that her boyfriend raped her and raped her sister which is how both of them contracted the STD. When tested in prison it turned out that the boyfriend never had gonnerea so it was the older sister, Missy, who gave it to her younger sister, Rebecca. I don't get it. How would a girl give that STD to another girl? And did it happen that Missy slept with someone else besides her boyfriend Joey and that is how she got gonnerea and then she - what? - gave it to her sister?? I am so confused as to how all of that played out.
On a better note though....Stephanie March was AWESOME in this episode! I love episodes where she has a big part, I love seeing her!!!
Okay, so just a recap of Damaged so we are all on the same page: Case of the adopted daughter who had her younger sister killed as part of a set up at the video store. Everyone with me? Okay, the question I have is about the contraction of gonnerea. In the episode it was discovered that the little girl who was shot had gonnerea which is why the Special Victims Unit got involved in the first place. The sister of the girl later admitted that her boyfriend raped her and raped her sister which is how both of them contracted the STD. When tested in prison it turned out that the boyfriend never had gonnerea so it was the older sister, Missy, who gave it to her younger sister, Rebecca. I don't get it. How would a girl give that STD to another girl? And did it happen that Missy slept with someone else besides her boyfriend Joey and that is how she got gonnerea and then she - what? - gave it to her sister?? I am so confused as to how all of that played out.
On a better note though....Stephanie March was AWESOME in this episode! I love episodes where she has a big part, I love seeing her!!!
#12
Hisgirlforevermore
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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:28 PM
MunchzHunch Posted Yesterday, 07:38 PM
Okay, so just a recap of Damaged so we are all on the same page: Case of the adopted daughter who had her younger sister killed as part of a set up at the video store. Everyone with me? Okay, the question I have is about the contraction of gonnerea. In the episode it was discovered that the little girl who was shot had gonnerea which is why the Special Victims Unit got involved in the first place. The sister of the girl later admitted that her boyfriend raped her and raped her sister which is how both of them contracted the STD. When tested in prison it turned out that the boyfriend never had gonnerea so it was the older sister, Missy, who gave it to her younger sister, Rebecca. I don't get it. How would a girl give that STD to another girl? And did it happen that Missy slept with someone else besides her boyfriend Joey and that is how she got gonnerea and then she - what? - gave it to her sister?? I am so confused as to how all of that played out.
Gonorrhea is a bacterium that likes to live in the warm, moist areas of the body such as the genitals, female reproductive tract, urethra, anus, mouth, eyes and throat. It is spread through contact with the infected areas. It is generally sexual contact but it can also be passed by a woman giving birth to her child vaginally. I assume Missy's gonorrhea was genital. Missy got it from someone other than Joey since he didn't have it. He almost certainly used a condom when they had intercourse. Missy had sexual contact with Rebecca, probably with the intention of infecting her. Missy's vaginal fluid would have contained the bacterium. Transferring that into Rebecca's genitals would get her infected. Her choice of delivery method is not really something I need to speculate about.
Okay, so just a recap of Damaged so we are all on the same page: Case of the adopted daughter who had her younger sister killed as part of a set up at the video store. Everyone with me? Okay, the question I have is about the contraction of gonnerea. In the episode it was discovered that the little girl who was shot had gonnerea which is why the Special Victims Unit got involved in the first place. The sister of the girl later admitted that her boyfriend raped her and raped her sister which is how both of them contracted the STD. When tested in prison it turned out that the boyfriend never had gonnerea so it was the older sister, Missy, who gave it to her younger sister, Rebecca. I don't get it. How would a girl give that STD to another girl? And did it happen that Missy slept with someone else besides her boyfriend Joey and that is how she got gonnerea and then she - what? - gave it to her sister?? I am so confused as to how all of that played out.
Gonorrhea is a bacterium that likes to live in the warm, moist areas of the body such as the genitals, female reproductive tract, urethra, anus, mouth, eyes and throat. It is spread through contact with the infected areas. It is generally sexual contact but it can also be passed by a woman giving birth to her child vaginally. I assume Missy's gonorrhea was genital. Missy got it from someone other than Joey since he didn't have it. He almost certainly used a condom when they had intercourse. Missy had sexual contact with Rebecca, probably with the intention of infecting her. Missy's vaginal fluid would have contained the bacterium. Transferring that into Rebecca's genitals would get her infected. Her choice of delivery method is not really something I need to speculate about.
#13
shigg66
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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:22 PM
Hi,this is an epi question but because I read about it here I thought I'd ask here,hope that's ok,is 'Damaged' a new episode this season or from a different season?
#14
Hisgirlforevermore
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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:09 PM
shigg66 Posted Today, 03:22 PM
Hi,this is an epi question but because I read about it here I thought I'd ask here,hope that's ok,is 'Damaged' a new episode this season or from a different season?
Damaged is Episode 11 form Season 4.
Hi,this is an epi question but because I read about it here I thought I'd ask here,hope that's ok,is 'Damaged' a new episode this season or from a different season?
Damaged is Episode 11 form Season 4.
#15
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Posted 22 October 2009 - 06:42 PM
Ok two questions
What exactly is Appeals (that Alex was in during Paxton's run)
and Pro-bono work (this is not SVU related, it's General Hospital- two lawyers were talking about it)?
What exactly is Appeals (that Alex was in during Paxton's run)
and Pro-bono work (this is not SVU related, it's General Hospital- two lawyers were talking about it)?
#16
Hisgirlforevermore
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Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:08 PM
SVUlovesME Posted Today, 06:42 PM
Ok two questions
What exactly is Appeals (that Alex was in during Paxton's run)
Here's the description from the New York County's DA office:
"The Appeals Bureau handles all of the office's appellate work. Assistant District Attorneys in the Bureau file briefs and argue appeals in all state and federal courts. Because of the Manhattan location and the large number of appeals, Bureau members play a prominent role in precedent-setting litigation that shapes the body of criminal law in New York.
In a typical year, members of the Bureau represent the appellant or respondent in about a third of the criminal appeals heard by the New York Court of Appeals. In addition, because of the expertise and reputation of the Bureau, its members are asked to appear as amicus curiae in significant cases in which the office would not otherwise be a party. Appeals Bureau attorneys also shape the law by selecting and pursuing appeals in which the state is the appellant, and by drafting proposed legislative amendments.
In addition to its work on criminal appeals, the Appeals Bureau handles office-related civil litigation in both the federal and state courts, including habeas corpus proceedings and civil rights actions. Assistant District Attorneys in the Bureau argue before the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and frequently litigate in both state and federal trial courts. In addition, some attorneys in the Bureau review eavesdropping applications that are to be submitted by the office, or the Office of the Special Narcotics Prosecutor."
http://manhattanda.o...n/appeals.shtml
___________________________________________
and Pro-bono work (this is not SVU related, it's General Hospital- two lawyers were talking about it)?
It refers to work done without charge. Courts will ask lawyers to take cases without pay for people who can't afford lawyers. The principle is to insure that everybody gets a chance to have their day in court.
It has actually been used on SVU. Moredock took Joe Blaine's case in Manic pro bono.
Ok two questions
What exactly is Appeals (that Alex was in during Paxton's run)
Here's the description from the New York County's DA office:
"The Appeals Bureau handles all of the office's appellate work. Assistant District Attorneys in the Bureau file briefs and argue appeals in all state and federal courts. Because of the Manhattan location and the large number of appeals, Bureau members play a prominent role in precedent-setting litigation that shapes the body of criminal law in New York.
In a typical year, members of the Bureau represent the appellant or respondent in about a third of the criminal appeals heard by the New York Court of Appeals. In addition, because of the expertise and reputation of the Bureau, its members are asked to appear as amicus curiae in significant cases in which the office would not otherwise be a party. Appeals Bureau attorneys also shape the law by selecting and pursuing appeals in which the state is the appellant, and by drafting proposed legislative amendments.
In addition to its work on criminal appeals, the Appeals Bureau handles office-related civil litigation in both the federal and state courts, including habeas corpus proceedings and civil rights actions. Assistant District Attorneys in the Bureau argue before the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and frequently litigate in both state and federal trial courts. In addition, some attorneys in the Bureau review eavesdropping applications that are to be submitted by the office, or the Office of the Special Narcotics Prosecutor."
http://manhattanda.o...n/appeals.shtml
___________________________________________
and Pro-bono work (this is not SVU related, it's General Hospital- two lawyers were talking about it)?
It refers to work done without charge. Courts will ask lawyers to take cases without pay for people who can't afford lawyers. The principle is to insure that everybody gets a chance to have their day in court.
It has actually been used on SVU. Moredock took Joe Blaine's case in Manic pro bono.
#17
GreenMonstah
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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:51 PM
Okay so let's talk about theory of a crime. I was watching Monogamy last night and in the scene where Elliot, Alex and Olivia were in Warner's office trying to get solid medical evidence as to whether or not Richard Manning's baby was born alive or not. Alex said, after Warner said she was going to testify that the baby was a live birth, that it had to be clear that the baby was a live birth because if she was going to charge him for murder of the baby she had to drop the assault charge and the abortion charge as well as the ateempted murder charge of his wife. Alex said there can only be on theory of the crime which was he was trying to kill his wife or his child. I don't get that because in the Lacy Peterson case, which is the case that SVU stole their story from, Scott Peterson was charged with murder in the deaths of his wife as well as his unborn child. Lacy Peterson was I think 8 months pregnant at the time of her death and Scott still went down for the murder of that baby because if that baby had been born it would have lived, which is an argument that Liv made in Cragen's office when Alex was going over what her office was going to chrage Manning with. So why couldnt Manning be charged with attempted murder in the attack on his wife and the murder of his child which he later on killed after taking it from the parking garage?
Since when can a person only be charged with one crime at a time when they have clearly committed two?
When prosecuting a crime the district attorney has to prove intent. I don't think that Manning attempted to kill his wife it was just a consequence of his actions in trying to murder the baby. Manning's intent during the commission of the crime was too kill the child. If the ADA had brought up attempted murder charges and murder charges it would have brought up the issue of reasonable doubt because the jury would have to decide if Manning inteded to kill his wife or his child. This could result in a split jury and a free manning.
"You've offered a very provocative theory. What it lacks in substance it makes up for in... Pretty colors."
-ADA Alex Cabot
#18
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Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:06 PM
Ok two questions
What exactly is Appeals (that Alex was in during Paxton's run)
and Pro-bono work (this is not SVU related, it's General Hospital- two lawyers were talking about it)?
This is the basic court structure: Trial Courts-->Appellate Courts-->State Supreme Court. The second level in the state court system are Appellate Courts, which is where Cabot was during her brief absence at the begging of season eleven. In these courts lawyers bring forth cases that have been tried in Trial Courts and resulted in guilty verdicts. The job of the court is to determine if the trial court followed the correct procedure in the prosecution of the defendant. For instance, were any Constitutional Ammendments violated, did the judge read the correct instructions to the jury, was the chain of evidence ever broken, etc. The basic function of this court is to unearth errors made in the intermediate courts, if any.
"You've offered a very provocative theory. What it lacks in substance it makes up for in... Pretty colors."
-ADA Alex Cabot
#19
maammaangelof5
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Posted 05 November 2009 - 12:42 AM
Here is a place for people to get together who like to talk about the law and to go over the cases that are used on SVU and discuss the job of the ADA. This is a place to talk about any mistakes that are made with rulings, or to talk about why a ruling was made and what charges were brought against the defendant, etc., etc.
So bring on the law!
Ok peeps., thanks for havin me, I love SVU for me it is one of the greatest shows on the USA Network. But I have just one small delemma. Ok here it goes. Last night while watching SVU, I saw an episode I had never seen before, I was very very moving and hit very close to home. In season 10 episode 10004 wen Stabler's daughter is found to be bipolar, His mom Ella Burnstyd? not sure of the spelling , used a word to decribe her condition, does anyone by chance know wat that word was.? I do however believe it started with an f / FREGIN SOMETHING i think can you help. appreciatete. Maammaangelof5
#20
Hisgirlforevermore
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Posted 05 November 2009 - 12:27 PM
maammaangelof5 Posted Today, 12:42 AM
"unsure.gif Ok peeps., thanks for havin me, I love SVU for me it is one of the greatest shows on the USA Network. But I have just one small delemma. Ok here it goes. Last night while watching SVU, I saw an episode I had never seen before, I was very very moving and hit very close to home. In season 10 episode 10004 wen Stabler's daughter is found to be bipolar, His mom Ella Burnstyd? not sure of the spelling , used a word to decribe her condition, does anyone by chance know wat that word was.? I do however believe it started with an f / FREGIN SOMETHING i think can you help. appreciatete. Maammaangelof5"
I think the word you are talking about is "flibbertigibbet". It means a silly or flighty person.
"unsure.gif Ok peeps., thanks for havin me, I love SVU for me it is one of the greatest shows on the USA Network. But I have just one small delemma. Ok here it goes. Last night while watching SVU, I saw an episode I had never seen before, I was very very moving and hit very close to home. In season 10 episode 10004 wen Stabler's daughter is found to be bipolar, His mom Ella Burnstyd? not sure of the spelling , used a word to decribe her condition, does anyone by chance know wat that word was.? I do however believe it started with an f / FREGIN SOMETHING i think can you help. appreciatete. Maammaangelof5"
I think the word you are talking about is "flibbertigibbet". It means a silly or flighty person.
