Politics and other Things to Controversial for OT Thread/What you think?, Let's keep it nice! Options

[ciaddict]

Yes, in some states you can acutally vote before Nov 4. My hubby and I did. It really cuts down on the lines on election day---and we tend to get through early voting faster than waiting in line on Election Day.

I had never heard of that until I read about it here. How early can you vote?

[krodgers]

I had never heard of that until I read about it here. How early can you vote?

cia, I told ya I voted early, last week. Tennessee and Missouri are called the bell-weathered states, who are usually right who win's the Presidency, Missouri is *1, and Tennessee is *2. Missouri is 99% right, and Tennessee is 98% right. Tennessee say's it's gonna be McCain. My hubby told me that story, I didn't know that. Did anyone else? Just curious.

[TennesseCIFAn]

I had never heard of that until I read about it here. How early can you vote?

It started around the 21 or 22 of October and ended on Oct 30. I read something today that said Congress may make it mandatory for all states to offer early voting to help make sure everyone votes!

[TheGoddessDivine]

cia, I told ya I voted early, last week. Tennessee and Missouri are called the bell-weathered states, who are usually right who win's the Presidency, Missouri is *1, and Tennessee is *2. Missouri is 99% right, and Tennessee is 98% right. Tennessee say's it's gonna be McCain. My hubby told me that story, I didn't know that. Did anyone else? Just curious.

hmmm......Lenore might argue the Missouri part with you---she's from MO and working her heart and soul on behalf of Sen. Obama.
I'll be watching the returns tomorrow night (probably on Fox) once the boys are in bed, although #1 Son is very interested in the election, maybe I'll let him stay up a little to watch. Just hope the TV networks don't call the election too early before the West Coast, Alaska, and Hawaii get a chance to vote.

[ciaddict]

hmmm......Lenore might argue the Missouri part with you---she's from MO and working her heart and soul on behalf of Sen. Obama.
I'll be watching the returns tomorrow night (probably on Fox) once the boys are in bed, although #1 Son is very interested in the election, maybe I'll let him stay up a little to watch. Just hope the TV networks don't call the election too early before the West Coast, Alaska, and Hawaii get a chance to vote.

My coworker in the next cubicle has Sean Hannity on her radio and he's already warning people, "Don't listen to the exit polls! Don't listen to the pundits!" I usually go back and forth between Fox and CNN, occasionally MSNBC.

[ciaddict]

cia, I told ya I voted early, last week. Tennessee and Missouri are called the bell-weathered states, who are usually right who win's the Presidency, Missouri is *1, and Tennessee is *2. Missouri is 99% right, and Tennessee is 98% right. Tennessee say's it's gonna be McCain. My hubby told me that story, I didn't know that. Did anyone else? Just curious.

I remember you saying that. It just took a while for the words "early voting" to sink into my brain and make sense. I kept thinking people were talking about absentee ballots. I'm not sure why, but this seriously blows my mind. Hope it's not a flashback to those mushrooms I ate that one time.

[TheGoddessDivine]

I remember you saying that. It just took a while for the words "early voting" to sink into my brain and make sense. I kept thinking people were talking about absentee ballots. I'm not sure why, but this seriously blows my mind. Hope it's not a flashback to those mushrooms I ate that one time.

Yep, those Shiitake mushrooms on the mushroom swiss burgers at BK can do a number on ya!!

[ciaddict]

Yep, those Shiitake mushrooms on the mushroom swiss burgers at BK can do a number on ya!!

Exactly what I was talking about!

[RabekaJr]

Yep, those Shiitake mushrooms on the mushroom swiss burgers at BK can do a number on ya!!

First I thought you were calling them Sh*, then I realized you meant Shiitake xD

God bless Barack Obama's grandmother, who passed away today from cancer

This post has been edited by RabekaJr: Nov 4 2008, 11:59 AM

[ciaddict]

First I thought you were calling them Sh*, then I realized you meant Shitake xD

God bless Barack Obama's grandmother, who passed away today from cancer

It's so sad that she won't be here to celebrate or commiserate with him tomorrow. But I guess there is never a "convenient" time to die. My condolences to the family.


My coworker is listening to Sean Hannity and he just said, "Let not your heart be troubled", as he often does. And as she does EVERY time he says it my coworker said, "I just hate it when he says that!" And as I do EVERY time she complains I asked why it bothers her so much. She said, "I don't know. I just think it would be better if he said, 'As Jesus said, Let not your heart be troubled.'" I said, "Oh.....so it's a copyright thing!"

[krodgers]

First I thought you were calling them Sh*, then I realized you meant Shitake xD

God bless Barack Obama's grandmother, who passed away today from cancer

I thought the same thing, Rabeka! I don't even know what that means? Mushrooms back in the hippie days that supposedly made you hallucinate?

[ciaddict]

I thought the same thing, Rabeka! I don't even know what that means? Mushrooms back in the hippie days that supposedly made you hallucinate?

Yes, those are the ones I was referring to. Then TGD made a joke about the Shiitake mushrooms at BK. Guess it's been too long since the hippie days?

[Jryan]

I hope Obama has a better week, So sorry on the loss of his Grandmother, Hope he is a winner the rest of the week.

[KimberlyTaylor]

I saw a bit on tv tonight...Obama, a little interview, hubby was watching football. Obama said something I thought was pretty awesome. He said, and this is not a direct quote, be sure to vote...whether you vote for me or McCain...please vote. That was just too cool.

[lenore]

I saw a bit on tv tonight...Obama, a little interview, hubby was watching football. Obama said something I thought was pretty awesome. He said, and this is not a direct quote, be sure to vote...whether you vote for me or McCain...please vote. That was just too cool.

He is just too cool.

Well today is the day. It will be my last day to work on this campaign. Today we are just doing door hangers that remind everyone to vote and they have their polling place on the hangers.
I want to thank all of you for putting up with me. I'm sure I may have said a hurtful thing or two and I'm sorry for that. After today, no matter how it turns out, we can all go back to Vincent. Now there is something we all agree on.

I'm sure everyone has offered a prayer for the Obama family over the loss of his grandmother. I was so in hope she would live to see her Grandson as president but I have faith she is watching from above.

Be sure to vote.
Love to all.

[krodgers]

I saw a young man, dressed in his guard uniform, and I stopped him, and thanked him for protecting America! I told him he was nothing but a hero! He said, you're welcome ma'am. It was all I could do to keep from crying, so proud of our men and women who protect our country! Please, stop for 1 minute, and give thanks to those who truly are hero's !!!!

[ciaddict]

[ciaddict]

So I've been thinking about some of the topics we've talked about here over the last few weeks. In particular, the old school Republican tenant that things will work better when done by the state or local level or by the private sector as opposed to the federal government. (Yeah, I may be liberal, but I try to see things from different points of view) The idea isn't new to me, this is the kind of republican my mother was before Bush and the Neo-cons had their day.

I've been listening to the argument that big government can't be as effective or cost efficient when it comes to social programs; case in point being Medicaid and Welfare. I can see your point. It seems everyone who has any real experience with them has seen the abuse of the system. I do wonder what percentage that is, but I guess, how would we know? We've also heard from several people that they had to go on these programs for a while at some point in their lives, but eventually worked up to a place where they could stand up without it... which is exactly how it should work. How many of those good stories are there compared to how many milk it for all they can? What percentage of the funds go to people trying to do right and eventually succeeding vs abusers? I just don't know.

But here's what I keep butting up against: is there really an acceptable alternative? Maybe the private sector CAN do it better, but how often DO they? And how can we make sure that a fair distribution of services are available to all Americans if we don't do it on the federal level without imposing unfunded mandates? Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest." I wonder if that same can't be said for a strong and active federal government. Is there really any other way to make sure our society gives an equal base of education and support from which all Americans can have an equal chance to succeed in life? Not just theoretically but actually. This is my central question... and I'm not done thinking about it. I'm interested in what others have to say.

There is one final thought that keeps popping up in my mind, so I'll tack it on here. When I went to school in western New York state, my parents paid a lot in school taxes. It was something like $2000 a year whether you had kids or not, and that was 25 years ago. But our schools, plain old suburban public schools, were in the top 5% for the entire country. The teachers were well paid and mostly excellent. There was money for art and music and sports and academic clubs .Class sizes were reasonable and all held in actual classrooms, not trailers. If you needed help, you got it.

When they moved to Florida, they didn't pay anything for the schools, and the schools were among the worst in the country... and the average education level of the area reflected that. Good education is expensive, but doesn't it serve us all well to live in a society of mostly well educated individuals? We don't have (and don't want to have) the cheapest workforce in the world, so don't we need to have the best educated, most productive workforce if we are going to continue to be near the top of the global economic ladder?

Aren't there things that are more important to us as a society than the lowest taxes possible? I'd love my taxes to be lower too, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost.

I'm not sure jryan but I think we are doing pretty good in Penn. I don't know about Virginia.
I hope I don't get into trouble for this but someone told a little, for instance, story the other day. A new proposal was put before a group of Republicans and a group of Democrats. The Republicans asked how much is it going to cost? The Democrats asked, who is it going to help. I thought this was amusing.
Granted we need a party of fiscal resposibility and we need a party that cares. I'm not saying Republicans don't care but I think the Democrats are willing to go a little farther for the less fortunate.

I'm off to work now and tomorrow is a really big day. Lets hope we get a president that is fiscally responsible and also cares. I love all of you, no matter how you vote.

Well, PFC's post made me think. And think. And after taking some Advil for my headache, I had to think some more. Because she brings up some very good points and I think I have more questions than I have answers. But, it was actually Lenore's post yesterday that helped my brain to think this through some more. And mostly I still have more questions than answers. The problem I have with social programs run by the government, such as Welfare and Medicaid, is not the fraud (which is just something that, frustrating as it may be, is going to happen) but the dependency it creates in so many people. I don't know how you have programs that help people in time of need without making them dependent for generations to come. I don't know the statistics for how many people this actually happens to, I only have anecdotal information about people I deal with and hear about from other workers. I think that creating an new class of people who will not only never fend for themselves, but see no reason to try, cannot be good for us as a country or a society.

PFC's last question, "Aren't there things that are more important to us as a society than the lowest taxes possible?" is a valid one. And I hope the answer is yes. But Lenore's story about the Republicans asking how much a program will cost and the Democrats asking who it will help points out an important point. No matter how much we want to help, there is a cost and we have to figure out how much it will be and who is going to pay for it. The bottom line is that we, the taxpayers will pay for it. So much of the focus of this campaign seems to have been aimed at "who will cut taxes the most for the middle class". But my niece, a Democrat and Obama-supporter, asked me last night "Don't you think the wealthy should pay taxes more than you do?" Sure I do. But I don't see why they should pay a higher percentage of their income to taxes. I know it has become a cliche, but having government decide that people making above a certain amount have more obligation to support those who are in need cannot be seen as anything else but redistribution of wealth.

If these programs and helping the needy are important for us as a society, then we as a society need to support them. And that means sometimes making hard decisions about what we can afford to support. Just as there are better public schools in areas with higher taxes, those are decisions we the people need to make. And I guess that is one of the decisions we will be making today. Do we want a federal government that decides who is going to support the social programs that they feel are necessary. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor may have been fun to read about in "Robin Hood", but when it's the government doing it, it feels awfully close to socialism to me.



As I have said, I don't know the answers and economics is just a huge confusing puzzle to me. "Trickle down economics", "trickle up economics"--I don't know. But I do know that trying to simply raise taxes for the rich will backfire because as Congress imposes higher and higher taxes, they will also implement more and more loopholes. So we come back to the people who can't afford the fancy tax lawyers to protect their money--the middle class. I know this is too simplistic, but what makes sense to me is a flat percentage tax with no exemptions or loopholes for anyone. And then the government having to live within that budget.

BTW, Lenore, love you too.

This post has been edited by ciaddict: Nov 4 2008, 01:38 PM

[flashymom]

oh and on another point, my father brought up, why are we Americans.? We are from North America, there is a South America, aren't they Americans too. Maybe we should be called United Statesians. lol.

You have a point there. I think that "United Statesians" is too big a mouthful...have to agree with you lol at that....so, what should we be called? USA-ans? That sounds wierd, too.......hmmmm......have to think about it.................::head explodes::


Oh, on another note related directly to the topic of this thread::

If you haven't already done so:

GO VOTE!!!!!!

Then, get down on your knees and thank God Almighty that we live in a country where we can vote freely and without fear of being killed/imprisoned/maimed/harmed for exercising that right.

[Jryan]

Only took 30min, there was a line, not too long, Was my daughters first big election. Forgot to prepair her for all the Amendments, she took pretty long I told one of the people there maybe they should check on her, but she did fine, she just took the time to read each one. So we got two for Obama, but McCain is projected to win Louisiana. I was surprised to see the kids in school, since they usually close the school for voting but someone said since they lost days for the hurricane they couldn't have today off.